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Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:47 pm
by Garudaman
sum wrote:Hello Garudaman

Your reference is irrelevant to my question to you. There is no sensible way that you can use your reference to dispute my quotes.

sum

how can? as QS. 17:36, QS. 17:15, QS. 2:62, QS. 2:286. QS. 6:152, QS. 7:42, QS. 65:7, QS. 5:48, QS. 5:69 make kafir be mean denialist instead simply rejector :clueless:

Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:49 pm
by sum
Hello Garudaman

Your use of semantics will get you nowhere. World events, past and present, show you to be wrong.

Koran 9:29 abrogates all those verses that you presented.

I will ask you again. Do you support the imposition of Jizya where Christians are humiliated, made to feel subdued as well as living in a state of dhimmitude and having to accept a very second class status and unequal to muslims in terms of the law?

sum

Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:01 pm
by frankie
Eagle wrote:Regarding the golden rule, even although the Quran does not pronounce an abstract concept like “love your neighbour”, it does however articulate its reality and applications in a much more comprehensive manner.

Muslims must treat others, whether close or far "neighbors", from one's own people or not, as they themselves would like to be treated as well as how thhey would like others to treat their own abandonned relatives 4:9,36,42:23,83:1-6 and even better yet in order to create a positive change even in one's ennemy 41:34,59:9. Often time belief in the One God and justice in all dealings between man and man are placed together as the twin postulates of all righteousness.

As they display their humanity and empathy, they should do it selflessly, not expecting any favor in return while lending a helpful ear to any type of "asker" 74:6,93:10.

This comprehensive attitude enjoined in the Quran, along with other such directives, takes the principle of the "golden rule" to new heights and should be labelled the "diamond rule".



Eagle:

Allah takes a very different view here.

Would you care to explain why Eagle?


http://quranx.com/Tafsirs/9.30

Quran 9.30
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Fighting the Jews and Christians is legislated because They are Idolators and Disbelievers

Tafsir Ibn Kathir 9.30
Allah the Exalted encourages the believers to fight the polytheists, disbelieving Jews and Christians, who uttered this terrible statement and utter lies against Allah, the Exalted. As for the Jews, they claimed that `Uzayr was the son of God, Allah is free of what they attribute to Him. As for the misguidance of Christians over `Isa, it is obvious. This is why Allah declared both groups to be liars, That is their saying with their mouths), but they have no proof that supports their claim, other than lies and fabrications resembling), imitating the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime.) They imitate the previous nations who fell into misguidance just as Jews and Christians did,, may Allah fight them), Ibn `Abbas said, "May Allah curse them (how they are deluded away from the truth!) how they deviate from truth, when it is apparent, exchanging it for misguidance.....

Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:23 am
by frankie
frankie wrote:
Eagle wrote:Regarding the golden rule, even although the Quran does not pronounce an abstract concept like “love your neighbour”, it does however articulate its reality and applications in a much more comprehensive manner.

Muslims must treat others, whether close or far "neighbors", from one's own people or not, as they themselves would like to be treated as well as how thhey would like others to treat their own abandonned relatives 4:9,36,42:23,83:1-6 and even better yet in order to create a positive change even in one's ennemy 41:34,59:9. Often time belief in the One God and justice in all dealings between man and man are placed together as the twin postulates of all righteousness.

As they display their humanity and empathy, they should do it selflessly, not expecting any favor in return while lending a helpful ear to any type of "asker" 74:6,93:10.

This comprehensive attitude enjoined in the Quran, along with other such directives, takes the principle of the "golden rule" to new heights and should be labelled the "diamond rule".



Eagle:

Allah takes a very different view here.

Would you care to explain why Eagle?


http://quranx.com/Tafsirs/9.30

Quran 9.30
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Fighting the Jews and Christians is legislated because They are Idolators and Disbelievers

Tafsir Ibn Kathir 9.30
Allah the Exalted encourages the believers to fight the polytheists, disbelieving Jews and Christians, who uttered this terrible statement and utter lies against Allah, the Exalted. As for the Jews, they claimed that `Uzayr was the son of God, Allah is free of what they attribute to Him. As for the misguidance of Christians over `Isa, it is obvious. This is why Allah declared both groups to be liars, That is their saying with their mouths), but they have no proof that supports their claim, other than lies and fabrications resembling), imitating the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime.) They imitate the previous nations who fell into misguidance just as Jews and Christians did,, may Allah fight them), Ibn `Abbas said, "May Allah curse them (how they are deluded away from the truth!) how they deviate from truth, when it is apparent, exchanging it for misguidance.....



Eagle

I am still waiting for a response from you concerning Allah's seemingly schizophrenic character.

You have a lot to say on other threads, but have gone curiously silent on this one.

Please answer the question posed.

Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:14 pm
by Fernando
frankie wrote:Eagle

I am still waiting for a response from you concerning Allah's seemingly c character.

You have a lot to say on other threads, but have gone curiously silent on this one.

Please answer the question posed.
well, in another discussion Garudaman has said that Allah is the same as the Hebrew god, and that the Hebrew god is plural, so Allah must be in at least two parts. Hence the schizophrenia!

Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:58 am
by sum
It would appear that Garudaman is trying every trick in the book to avoid saying that I am the vilest of all creatures. I have told him that I reject the concept of Allah and do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet but just a cunning and evil master of mob psychology to help him to acquire wealth, power and women. Did he acquire these? Yes he did and all on the back of brainwashed and grasping fools who were willing to sacrifice their lives for him.

I claim all this and also try to help muslims to see the truth and reality of the false religion of Islam yet Garudaman still will not describe me as the "vilest of all creatures" as the Koran would have me. Nor will Eagle. They will not describe me and others with similar views as the vilest of all creatures because it would reveal their own mindset and the reality of Islam.

Take note, Guests.

sum

Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:43 am
by frankie
Eagle wrote:Regarding the golden rule, even although the Quran does not pronounce an abstract concept like “love your neighbour”, it does however articulate its reality and applications in a much more comprehensive manner.

Muslims must treat others, whether close or far "neighbors", from one's own people or not, as they themselves would like to be treated as well as how thhey would like others to treat their own abandonned relatives 4:9,36,42:23,83:1-6 and even better yet in order to create a positive change even in one's ennemy 41:34,59:9. Often time belief in the One God and justice in all dealings between man and man are placed together as the twin postulates of all righteousness.

As they display their humanity and empathy, they should do it selflessly, not expecting any favor in return while lending a helpful ear to any type of "asker" 74:6,93:10.

This comprehensive attitude enjoined in the Quran, along with other such directives, takes the principle of the "golden rule" to new heights and should be labelled the "diamond rule".



Eagle

Muslims must treat others, whether close or far "neighbors", from one's own people or not, as they themselves would like to be treated



Please explain why Allah takes a different view to the one you present.



http://quranx.com/Tafsirs/9.30

Quran 9.30
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Fighting the Jews and Christians is legislated because They are Idolators and Disbelievers

Tafsir Ibn Kathir 9.30
Allah the Exalted encourages the believers to fight the polytheists, disbelieving Jews and Christians, who uttered this terrible statement and utter lies against Allah, the Exalted. As for the Jews, they claimed that `Uzayr was the son of God, Allah is free of what they attribute to Him. As for the misguidance of Christians over `Isa, it is obvious. This is why Allah declared both groups to be liars, That is their saying with their mouths), but they have no proof that supports their claim, other than lies and fabrications resembling), imitating the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime.) They imitate the previous nations who fell into misguidance just as Jews and Christians did,, may Allah fight them), Ibn `Abbas said, "May Allah curse them (how they are deluded away from the truth!) how they deviate from truth, when it is apparent, exchanging it for misguidance.....

Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:45 pm
by Garudaman
sum wrote:It would appear that Garudaman is trying every trick in the book to avoid saying that I am the vilest of all creatures. I have told him that I reject the concept of Allah and do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet but just a cunning and evil master of mob psychology to help him to acquire wealth, power and women. Did he acquire these? Yes he did and all on the back of brainwashed and grasping fools who were willing to sacrifice their lives for him.

I claim all this and also try to help muslims to see the truth and reality of the false religion of Islam yet Garudaman still will not describe me as the "vilest of all creatures" as the Koran would have me. Nor will Eagle. They will not describe me and others with similar views as the vilest of all creatures because it would reveal their own mindset and the reality of Islam.

Take note, Guests.

sum

tell me that you actually knew that God actually is exist but you denied it first, then i will say that you're the vilest of all creatures just as the Quran said!

Re: What is the default relationship of muslims to non-musli

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:37 pm
by sum
Hello Garudaman

What you are claiming is not in accord with the Koran as you well know.

Whether you like it or not the Koran calls me the vilest of all creatures and so you have no option but to agree. All your waffling cuts no ice at all and your resistance to agreeing that I am the vilest of all creatures is because you do not want Koranic teaching exposed and that you are compelled to agree that I am the vilest of all creatures.

The fact that I refused an invitation to go to a mosque and learn about Islam because I did not believe in anything to do with Islam - Koran and Muhammad - makes me an unbeliever who rejects the invitation to embrace Islam. I am therefore the vilest of all creatures. Your interpretation of Koranic verses is rejected as not Islamic.

sum