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Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:34 pm
by manfred
Ah, so women in Islam get stoned for adultery out of hygienic reasons?

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:20 pm
by Nosuperstition
manfred wrote:Ah, so women in Islam get stoned for adultery out of hygienic reasons?


If I remember correctly , according to the Torah of the Jews ( also known as the Old Testament by Christians ) anyone involved in adultery gets stoned not just women. Muhammed was just reaffirming what was written in the Torah.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:28 pm
by manfred
, according to the Torah of the Jews ( also known as the Old Testament by Christians ) anyone involved in adultery gets stoned not just women.


And let the one without fault throw the first stone....

Mohammed "re-affirmed" the "corrupt" Torah?

As to the death penalty generally in Jewish communities, please read

The harshness of the death penalty indicated the seriousness of the crime. Jewish philosophers argue that the whole point of corporal punishment was to serve as a reminder to the community of the severe nature of certain acts. This is why, in Jewish law, the death penalty is more of a principle than a practice. The numerous references to a death penalty in the Torah underscore the severity of the sin rather than the expectation of death. This is bolstered by the standards of proof required for application of the death penalty, which has always been extremely stringent (Babylonian Talmud Makkoth 7b). The Mishnah (tractate Makkoth 1:10) outlines the views of several prominent first-century CE Rabbis on the subject:

"A Sanhedrin that puts a man to death once in seven years is called a murderous one. Rabbi Eliezer ben Azariah says 'Or even once in 70 years.' Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiba said, 'If we had been in the Sanhedrin no death sentence would ever have been passed'; Rabban Simeon ben Gamaliel said: 'If so, they would have multiplied murderers in Israel.'"[11]

The Sanhedrin stopped issuing capital punishment either after the Second Temple was destroyed in 70 CE or alternatively, according to passages in the Talmud and New Testament, in 30 CE when the Sanhedrin were moved out of the Hall of Hewn Stones. Other sources such as Josephus and other passages in the New Testament disagree. The issue is highly debated because of the relevancy to the New Testament trial of Jesus.[12][13] Ancient rabbis did not like the idea of capital punishment, and interpreted the texts in a way that made the death penalty virtually non-existent. The idea of killing someone for a crime they commit is frowned upon in the Jewish tradition.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_a ... in_Judaism

By the time Mohammed lived, there was no death penalty actually carried out in Jewish communities, not for at least 500 years, not even for murder.

The ONLY death sentence ever carried out in modern Israel was that of Eichmann for his part in the holocaust.

The Jewish approach to the death penalty has always been that while some crimes are so serious as to DESERVE the death penalty, it should only ever actually carried out in extreme circumstances.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:09 pm
by frankie
Nosuperstition

If I remember correctly , according to the Torah of the Jews ( also known as the Old Testament by Christians ) anyone involved in adultery gets stoned not just women. Muhammed was just reaffirming what was written in the Torah


The Torah is the first five books of the O.T.,it is not the whole of the O.T.but just part of it.

Most people, including Christians, know the difference between the two, apparently you don't.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:56 am
by Fernando
SAM wrote:There are some things about the teachings of Islam that you can not easily understand, in the Quran says, only certain people who are chosen by Allah alone can understand it, not everyone (Muslim) can know especially unbelievers/kafir like you.
Oh, SAM! How can you fail to understand your Koran, when it says
Allah has promised that Quran has been made easy to understand. The following verse is repeated 4 times in Surah Qamar (54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40))

And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
Or are you denying it? What's the word for that, again?

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:16 am
by SAM
manfred wrote:Ah, so women in Islam get stoned for adultery out of hygienic reasons?
Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18, 'You shall not commit adultery

Stoning is a form of capital punishment in the Bible.

Leviticus 20:10-16,
10'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death."
11‘If there is a man who lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
12‘If there is a man who lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed incest, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
13‘If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
14‘If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there will be no immorality in your midst.
15‘If there is a man who lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death; you shall also kill the animal.
16‘If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Deuteronomy 22:24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. dSo you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Enough said.. :whistling:

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:26 am
by SAM
frankie wrote:SAM:
An extensive study done by the Pew Research Center that Christians are leaving the faith in droves and the trend isn't slowing down


Christianity is growing in areas were persecution of Christians is most prevalent across the world, ironically where the "religion of peace" is found.

Conversely, Islam is shrinking rapidly,because Muslims are learning the truth about it, which will only gain momentum when more and more Muslims realise what they are "signed up to "and leave.

You don't need to take my word for it, the evidence is from the Muslim ummah itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7pChq-3Qjs
Stories of New Muslims http://bit.ly/2DUkP8X

I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:46 am
by SAM
manfred wrote:Sigh, Sam, it really seems pointless to try and talk to you.

As you have not told me your personal journey to Islam how do you expect me to know? Witchcraft?

And why would that be in any way relevant to the question?

And since when do individual converts prove anything about the truth of a religion?
You wrote; When you become a Muslim..

And I asked you, When did I become a Muslim? ...

But you still unable to answer my simple question

Is it because I was born of an Islamic family?
Is it because I am a Muslim because my parents are Muslims?
Is it because after I say Kalimah Syahadah?
Or else?

So while in Europe mostly Christianity is loosing some support, in many other parts of the world it is rapidly growing. And when you look at converts, for Islam there are tiny numbers only.
Little by little eventually became bigger and larger, Christianity slowly dies and will be abolished/ eliminated. :harhar:

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:21 am
by manfred
SAM, about your collection of stoning verses from the Torah, how many times do I need to go over that?

1) You first quote is from Exodus. That is the oldest. You quote one of the ten commandments. They do not specify any punishments.

2) Leviticus is much later, and written during a time of religious and existential crisis for the people of Israel. It also says that eating prawn is an abomination worth death, and wearing clothing made from two different materials. So why has Mohammed, who according to you is so keen on following Leviticus to the letter, ignoring these? Do you have a cotton and polyester shirt, SAM? If yes, why have you not collected a sack of rocks, handed it to you family and asked them to stone you? And that prawn sate? Why are you still breathing?

Leviticus was never a law book or rule book to be followed, but a religious warning. The writer reiterates that adultery is forbidden in Mosaic law. He emphasises this by saying that it is a serious matter, something that "DESERVES" death even. In reality, this have never been carried out, as the article about Jewish history I quoted previously shows.

3) The question of stoning for adultery was specifically raised by Jesus in the gospels. "He who is without sin throw the first stone".... Why did Mohammed disregard Jesus who he says is a "prophet"?

You wrote; When you become a Muslim..

And I asked you, When did I become a Muslim? ...

But you still unable to answer my simple question

Is it because I was born of an Islamic family?
Is it because I am a Muslim because my parents are Muslims?
Is it because after I say Kalimah Syahadah?
Or else?



Kindly stop your trolling. You had this answered previously. "When you become a Muslim" = "when SOMEONE becomes a Muslim". Don't take yourself so seriously that everything I say I about you.

And I have no interest in guessing details of you personal life. Why are you asking? Do like trivia?

Ehhh :yahoo: Here you go how little you know... you cannot even tell me where I have a scar from an accident.... the prescription of my glasses, my shoe size, How ignorant you are...

That is about the level of your writing here. Kindly get serious or stop writing.

Little by little eventually became bigger and larger, Christianity slowly dies and will be abolished/ eliminated. :harhar:


As frankie has told you, Christianity is actually growing strongly in some parts of the world, and in many Islamic countries, such as Iran, Islam is declining.

Your smiley reveals why you are posting. Not to discuss but to try and irritate people. That is why you repeat the same tripe over and over.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:57 pm
by Nosuperstition
frankie wrote:Nosuperstition

If I remember correctly , according to the Torah of the Jews ( also known as the Old Testament by Christians ) anyone involved in adultery gets stoned not just women. Muhammed was just reaffirming what was written in the Torah


The Torah is the first five books of the O.T.,it is not the whole of the O.T.but just part of it.

Most people, including Christians, know the difference between the two, apparently you don't.


O.K,all that I knew was that Old Testament had many barbaric laws while the N.T is relatively peaceful and both together form the Bible of the Christians.I do not even know about the word Torah until much later.Jews supposedly have books other than Torah as their holy ones.This much I knew.

manfred wrote: The question of stoning for adultery was specifically raised by Jesus in the gospels. "He who is without sin throw the first stone".... Why did Mohammed disregard Jesus who he says is a "prophet"?


Jesus also tells that prostitute or adulteress immediately thereafter that you do not go for it the next time.Of course it is an open ended question regards to what needs to be done with those who continue to persist with their previous habits.Of course I have read about existence of prostitutes in medieval periods and have not heard about them being punished.Heretics were persecuted with far more severity than those involved in adultery.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:39 pm
by frankie
SAM wrote:
frankie wrote:SAM:
An extensive study done by the Pew Research Center that Christians are leaving the faith in droves and the trend isn't slowing down


Christianity is growing in areas were persecution of Christians is most prevalent across the world, ironically where the "religion of peace" is found.

Conversely, Islam is shrinking rapidly,because Muslims are learning the truth about it, which will only gain momentum when more and more Muslims realise what they are "signed up to "and leave.

You don't need to take my word for it, the evidence is from the Muslim ummah itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7pChq-3Qjs
Stories of New Muslims http://bit.ly/2DUkP8X

I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.



SAM:
I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.


You think wrong.

The Muslims I know who have converted to Christianity live in fear of their lives, which should not be the case since Islam is said to be "the religion of peace", and claims “there is no compulsion in religion”

Here are more Ex Muslims who courageously share their testimonies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pqTUXhS7tQ


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42090104


https://www.theguardian.com/global/2015 ... isis-faith

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:04 pm
by manfred
Of course it is an open ended question regards to what need to be done with those who continue to persist with their previous habits.


Not really...
Have a look at Matthew 18...
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?"

The answer given
λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς Οὐ λέγω σοι ἕως ἑπτάκις, ἀλλὰ ἕως ἑβδομηκοντάκις ἑπτά.
Jesus says to him, "I say to you not up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!


This is in effect saying that you have no limit to your willingness to forgive.

We are also told "Judge not, so that you are not judged"

So when Jesus tells the adulteress not to sin anymore, he did not mean "or else!". He means LEARN from this and CHANGE.

all that I knew was that Old Testament had many barbaric laws

The Judaic law is not "barbaric". Not all that people sometimes present as law, such as much of Leviticus, is a literal law instruction, as I keep telling SAM and he seems not to hear. It is a religious writing, in which the author stresses the seriousness of some offences, by saying they deserve death. However, ACTUAL Jewish legal practice was different. The "ten commandments" are if anything a very good guide to life, put together is very few words. For its time it was a stroke of genius, an inspired summary of guidance, something that has persisted over the ages. They are a bit like chess: easy to learn, by it takes a lifetime to implement properly.

Some aspects of Jewish "law" were approached critically by Jesus as the story of the adulteress shows. However, it is also true that his approach to the law can be found with other Jewish writers.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:03 am
by SAM
manfred wrote:SAM, about your collection of stoning verses from the Torah, how many times do I need to go over that?

1) You first quote is from Exodus. That is the oldest. You quote one of the ten commandments. They do not specify any punishments.

2) Leviticus is much later, and written during a time of religious and existential crisis for the people of Israel. It also says that eating prawn is an abomination worth death, and wearing clothing made from two different materials. So why has Mohammed, who according to you is so keen on following Leviticus to the letter, ignoring these? Do you have a cotton and polyester shirt, SAM? If yes, why have you not collected a sack of rocks, handed it to you family and asked them to stone you? And that prawn sate? Why are you still breathing?

Leviticus was never a law book or rule book to be followed, but a religious warning. The writer reiterates that adultery is forbidden in Mosaic law. He emphasises this by saying that it is a serious matter, something that "DESERVES" death even. In reality, this have never been carried out, as the article about Jewish history I quoted previously shows.

3) The question of stoning for adultery was specifically raised by Jesus in the gospels. "He who is without sin throw the first stone".... Why did Mohammed disregard Jesus who he says is a "prophet"?
Explicit evidence of stoning and death penalty for adultery and apostasy are legally written in the Bible, not the Quran. :*)


Kindly stop your trolling. You had this answered previously. "When you become a Muslim" = "when SOMEONE becomes a Muslim". Don't take yourself so seriously that everything I say I about you.

And I have no interest in guessing details of you personal life. Why are you asking? Do like trivia?

Ehhh :yahoo: Here you go how little you know... you cannot even tell me where I have a scar from an accident.... the prescription of my glasses, my shoe size, How ignorant you are...

That is about the level of your writing here. Kindly get serious or stop writing.
As I said many times that you are still lacking in the knowledge of Islamic doctrine. :P

As frankie has told you, Christianity is actually growing strongly in some parts of the world, and in many Islamic countries, such as Iran, Islam is declining.
Actually more Muslims in Iran today than ever before, mostly as religious as they always were. They are proud of their culture and belief system. Christians are desperate to defend Christianity, as Christians are deteriorating in the West. They are looking for a way of understanding, and in many cases, rewriting Christian theology.

Christian spirituality is dying. :roflmao:

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:12 am
by SAM
frankie wrote:
SAM:
I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.


You think wrong.

The Muslims I know who have converted to Christianity live in fear of their lives, which should not be the case since Islam is said to be "the religion of peace", and claims “there is no compulsion in religion”

Here are more Ex Muslims who courageously share their testimonies.
I see you personally never met an ex Muslim, who had converted to Christianity except in youtube and in the media stream. :lotpot:

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:09 am
by manfred
Explicit evidence of stoning and death penalty for adultery and apostasy are legally written in the Bible, not the Quran. :*)


Let me see if I can explain it in a way even you can understand....
SAM steals some prawn crackers from a jar.
Mom is very angry. "I should chop your little grubby ringers off!" She shouts.
But of course she doesn't. In fact later she gives SAM some sticky rice with banana.

Uncle Leviticus is angry about the people near by. Some worship other gods, some commit fornication and adultery. He shouts "Disgusting people. You deserve to die for that." and he writes that into his book for others to read. He wants people to be grateful to God, true to their culture and live good lives. He never killed anyone.

Does Samety SAM understand it now?

Actually more Muslims in Iran today than ever before, mostly as religious as they always were.

Yes, the population is growing because people are having babies. But surely the recent protests in Iran have not passed you by. Iran has a culture of its own, much older than Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%8 ... n_protests

They are proud of their culture and belief system.


They are proud of their culture, and for the most part feel enslaved by Islam.
Christians are desperate to defend Christianity, as Christians are deteriorating in the West. They are looking for a way of understanding, and in many cases, rewriting Christian theology.


Christianity has ALWAYS tried to strive for better understanding. Islam cannot and will not do that, that is the problem. Muslims still stone people to death, throw people of high building and commit murder in the name of their religion. As they have always done. When asked or challenged, Christians will tell you about their believes. When Muslims get asked or challenged they get angry and issue death threats.

Christian spirituality is dying.


Says the Muslim who does not know even the meaning of that word.

As I said many times that you are still lacking in the knowledge of Islamic doctrine.


You do not actually want to talk about the "everybody is born a Muslim" idiocy?

Islam is a filthy corruption giving all religions a bad name for masquerading as the "original". Islam was Mohammed's invention to help Mohammed to get rich and powerful and to get women to sleep with him, which they otherwise wouldn't because he was by Muslim descriptions ugly, and had a horrible body odour problem, bad breath and fleas. If Mohammed had not invented Islam, he would died an obscure, poor and lonely man in Mecca. But his soul would have been a great deal cleaner.

When you will finally get this into your head? Prancing about feigning superiority only makes you look as if your were mentally impaired. But the sentence you wrote I quoted above is just about the only part you wrote so far relevant to the topic. Muslims, by virtue of accepting Islam, become incapable to properly understand Islam, and accept all kinds of garbage as "fact". Then they project they ignorance and backwardness on others and pretend somehow they have something that others should be envious of.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:09 am
by SAM
manfred wrote:
Let me see if I can explain it in a way even you can understand....
SAM steals some prawn crackers from a jar.
Mom is very angry. "I should chop your little grubby ringers off!" She shouts.
But of course she doesn't. In fact later she gives SAM some sticky rice with banana.

Uncle Leviticus is angry about the people near by. Some worship other gods, some commit fornication and adultery. He shouts "Disgusting people. You deserve to die for that." and he writes that into his book for others to read. He wants people to be grateful to God, true to their culture and live good lives. He never killed anyone.

Does Samety SAM understand it now?
No matter what reasons and excuses you want to say. Stoning and death penalty for adultery and apostasy are legally written in the Bible.

manfred wrote:
Actually more Muslims in Iran today than ever before, mostly as religious as they always were.

Yes, the population is growing because people are having babies. But surely the recent protests in Iran have not passed you by. Iran has a culture of its own, much older than Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%8 ... n_protests

They are proud of their culture and belief system.


They are proud of their culture, and for the most part feel enslaved by Islam.
Who told you, Prophet Ali Sina? :lol:
manfred wrote:
Christians are desperate to defend Christianity, as Christians are deteriorating in the West. They are looking for a way of understanding, and in many cases, rewriting Christian theology.


Christianity has ALWAYS tried to strive for better understanding. Islam cannot and will not do that, that is the problem. Muslims still stone people to death, throw people of high building and commit murder in the name of their religion. As they have always done. When asked or challenged, Christians will tell you about their believes. When Muslims get asked or challenged they get angry and issue death threats.

Christian spirituality is dying.


Says the Muslim who does not know even the meaning of that word.
Many Christians don't know that Christianity originate from Paganism.

manfred wrote:
As I said many times that you are still lacking in the knowledge of Islamic doctrine.


You do not actually want to talk about the "everybody is born a Muslim" idiocy?

Islam is a filthy corruption giving all religions a bad name for masquerading as the "original". Islam was Mohammed's invention to help Mohammed to get rich and powerful and to get women to sleep with him, which they otherwise wouldn't because he was by Muslim descriptions ugly, and had a horrible body odour problem, bad breath and fleas. If Mohammed had not invented Islam, he would died an obscure, poor and lonely man in Mecca. But his soul would have been a great deal cleaner.

When you will finally get this into your head? Prancing about feigning superiority only makes you look as if your were mentally impaired. But the sentence you wrote I quoted above is just about the only part you wrote so far relevant to the topic. Muslims, by virtue of accepting Islam, become incapable to properly understand Islam, and accept all kinds of garbage as "fact". Then they project they ignorance and backwardness on others and pretend somehow they have something that others should be envious of.
Don't forget Constantine promoted was a mixture of man-made Christianity and Roman paganism.

Mishnah, tractate Avoda Zara 1:3,“Know that this Christian nation, who proclaim their claim of a divine/human messiah, are all idol worshippers and (celebrating) their holidays is forbidden, and regarding religious issues as we deal with them as we would with pagans.”

Mishnah, tractate Avoda Zara 4: “Therefore one must know that every Christian church altar is like a pagan house of idolatry without any doubt.”

Enough said... :whistling:

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:37 am
by frankie
SAM wrote:
frankie wrote:
SAM:
I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.


You think wrong.

The Muslims I know who have converted to Christianity live in fear of their lives, which should not be the case since Islam is said to be "the religion of peace", and claims “there is no compulsion in religion”

Here are more Ex Muslims who courageously share their testimonies.
I see you personally never met an ex Muslim, who had converted to Christianity except in youtube and in the media stream. :lotpot:



SAM:
I see you personally never met an ex Muslim, who had converted to Christianity except in youtube and in the media stream.



Only in your little world.

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:11 am
by manfred
No matter what reasons and excuses you want to say. Stoning and death penalty for adultery and apostasy are legally written in the Bible.

... not in a LEGAL text, in a RELIGIOUS text.

Who told you, Prophet Ali Sina?


Unlike in Singapore, there is a sizeable Iranian community in London. All you need to to do is to talk to them or follow the news, SAM.

Many Christians don't know that Christianity originate from Paganism.


Christianity originates from a person called Jesus Christ. And while you are are ranting on about "paganism" tell me the origin of the Kaaba and Ramadan, for example, but not the tripe Muslims say about that, the truth.

And you are quoting ancient Jewish texts... And why are so obsessed with other people's religions, because you know yours is the most disgusting excuse for a religion there even was, perhaps? As your cannot defend you precious paedophile profit Mohammed, all you can do is to make silly remarks about other religions. You are like a man complaining about the dirty windows in a neighbour's house, while in his own house the roof has fallen in long ago, and the walls are collapsing.

And there is something else that seems to forever pass you by. Because something is written in an old book that does not automatically "prove" anything. You quote old texts selectively without considering the historical context and person of writer, and present t as absolute truth whenever it suits you. That is the most idiotic way to argue a case I can think of.

But you are not really here to discuss anything, are SAM?

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:22 am
by frankie
SAM:

Many Christians don't know that Christianity originate from Paganism.


Correction

Many Muslims don't know that Islam originate from Paganism.


Muslims are taught they worship the God of the Bible, which is not true, they worship a god already known to Mohammed and the pagan Arabs, it was the “greatest” of the idols held at the Kaaba,its name was Allah,Al Ilah, the Meccan “creator “god.

This Allah had a “wife” Al Lat,”the goddess” and intercessing “daughters”Al Uzza and Al Manet, whose intercession was sought by Mohammed and his tribe the Quraish when they circumambulated the Kaaba, which all Muslims still do today.

Mohammed just pronounced this chief god to be the only god, and got rid of the rest

The roots of Islam are provably pagan, Ramadan, Hajj, the veneration of a pagan relic, a stone, the worship of the “creator” god of Mecca are pre Islamic pagan rituals, kept to be part of the Islamic faith, which are still performed today by Muslims.

http://rrimedia.org/Worldviews/Islam/ra ... -its-roots

http://answering-islam.org/Books/Al-Kalbi/


http://answering-islam.org/Books/Al-Kalbi/uzza.htm


“We have been told that the Apostle of God once
mentioned al-Uzza saying, "I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people."
The Quraysh were wont to circumambulate the Ka'bah and say:

"By Allat and al-'Uzza,
And Manah, the third idol besides.
Verily they are the most exalted females[15]
Whose intercession is to be sought[16]."

These were also called "the Daughters of Allah[17]," and were supposed to intercede before God. When the Apostle of God was sent, God revealed unto him [concerning them] the following:

Have you seen Allat and al-'Uzza, and Manah the third
idol besides? What? Shall ye have male progeny and
God female? This indeed were an unfair partition! These
are mere names: ye and your fathers named them thus:
God hath not sent down any warranty in their regard[18]."



The moon god connection in Islam is the pagan idol Hubal, the tribal god of Mohammed,
“considered to be the consort of the goddess al-'Uzzā; the son of Manāt, and the brother of the moon god Wadd, and was the chief god of the town of Mecca and the Ka'aba during the rule of the Quraysh in Muhammads time.”


The Quraysh had also several idols in and around the Ka'bah. The greatest of these was Hubal[58]. It was, as I was told, of red agate, in the form of a man with the right hand broken off. It came into the possession of the Quraysh in this condition, and they, therefore, made for it a hand of gold. The first to set it up [for worship] was Khuzaymah ibn-Mudrikah ibn-al-Ya's'[59] ibn-Mudar[60]. Consequently it used to be called Khuzaymah's Hubal.
It stood inside the Ka'bah. In front of it were seven divination arrows (sing. qidh, pl. qidah or aqduh). On one of these arrows was written "pure" (sarih), and on another "consociated alien" (mulsag). Whenever the lineage of a new-born was doubted, they would offer a sacrifice to it [Hubal] and then shuffle the arrows and throw them. If the arrothe word "pure," the child would be declared legitimate and the tribe would accept him. If, however, the arrows showed the words "consociated alien," the child would be declared illegitimate and the tribe would reject him. The third arrow was for divination concerning the dead, while the fourth was for divination concerning marriage. The purpose of the three remaining arrows has not been explained. Whenever they disagreed concerning something, or purposed to embark upon a journey, or undertake some project, they would proceed to it [Hubal] and shuffle the divination arrows before it. Whatever result they obtained they would follow and do accordingly.
It was before [Hubal] that 'Abd-al-Muttalib[61] shuffled the divination arrows [in order to find out which of his ten children he should sacrifice in fulfilment of a vow he had sworn], and the arrows pointed to his son 'Abdullah, the father of the Prophet[62]. Hubal was also the same idol which abu-Sufyan ibn-Harb[63] addressed when he emerged victorious after the battle of Uhud[64], saying:

"Hubal, be thou exalted" (i.e. may thy religion triumph);
To which the Prophet replied:

"Allah is more exalted and more majestic[65]."

Re: credendo videbis

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:00 pm
by Nosuperstition
"Allah is more exalted and more majestic[65]."


JoeJew and ohmyrus of the old forum respectively mentioned that Zeus,Supreme God of the Graeco-Roman world was an rapist and an adulterer and a bad ipso moto for their followers to follow.Perhaps Muhammad was also convinced by some members of the extensive Jewish tribes of the Arabian peninsula with whom he had trade contacts that while the Abrahamic God can only be held accountable on one criminal charge of murder in the form of abortions,pagan gods can be held to account for more than one crime.That might have convinced Muhammad to discard other Gods or gods or goddesses or Goddesses in favour of one God who later got morphed into One True God.