manfred wrote:Ah, so women in Islam get stoned for adultery out of hygienic reasons?
, according to the Torah of the Jews ( also known as the Old Testament by Christians ) anyone involved in adultery gets stoned not just women.
The harshness of the death penalty indicated the seriousness of the crime. Jewish philosophers argue that the whole point of corporal punishment was to serve as a reminder to the community of the severe nature of certain acts. This is why, in Jewish law, the death penalty is more of a principle than a practice. The numerous references to a death penalty in the Torah underscore the severity of the sin rather than the expectation of death. This is bolstered by the standards of proof required for application of the death penalty, which has always been extremely stringent (Babylonian Talmud Makkoth 7b). The Mishnah (tractate Makkoth 1:10) outlines the views of several prominent first-century CE Rabbis on the subject:
"A Sanhedrin that puts a man to death once in seven years is called a murderous one. Rabbi Eliezer ben Azariah says 'Or even once in 70 years.' Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiba said, 'If we had been in the Sanhedrin no death sentence would ever have been passed'; Rabban Simeon ben Gamaliel said: 'If so, they would have multiplied murderers in Israel.'"[11]
The Sanhedrin stopped issuing capital punishment either after the Second Temple was destroyed in 70 CE or alternatively, according to passages in the Talmud and New Testament, in 30 CE when the Sanhedrin were moved out of the Hall of Hewn Stones. Other sources such as Josephus and other passages in the New Testament disagree. The issue is highly debated because of the relevancy to the New Testament trial of Jesus.[12][13] Ancient rabbis did not like the idea of capital punishment, and interpreted the texts in a way that made the death penalty virtually non-existent. The idea of killing someone for a crime they commit is frowned upon in the Jewish tradition.
If I remember correctly , according to the Torah of the Jews ( also known as the Old Testament by Christians ) anyone involved in adultery gets stoned not just women. Muhammed was just reaffirming what was written in the Torah
Oh, SAM! How can you fail to understand your Koran, when it saysSAM wrote:There are some things about the teachings of Islam that you can not easily understand, in the Quran says, only certain people who are chosen by Allah alone can understand it, not everyone (Muslim) can know especially unbelievers/kafir like you.
Or are you denying it? What's the word for that, again?Allah has promised that Quran has been made easy to understand. The following verse is repeated 4 times in Surah Qamar (54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40))
And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18, 'You shall not commit adulterymanfred wrote:Ah, so women in Islam get stoned for adultery out of hygienic reasons?
Stories of New Muslims http://bit.ly/2DUkP8Xfrankie wrote:SAM:An extensive study done by the Pew Research Center that Christians are leaving the faith in droves and the trend isn't slowing down
Christianity is growing in areas were persecution of Christians is most prevalent across the world, ironically where the "religion of peace" is found.
Conversely, Islam is shrinking rapidly,because Muslims are learning the truth about it, which will only gain momentum when more and more Muslims realise what they are "signed up to "and leave.
You don't need to take my word for it, the evidence is from the Muslim ummah itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7pChq-3Qjs
You wrote; When you become a Muslim..manfred wrote:Sigh, Sam, it really seems pointless to try and talk to you.
As you have not told me your personal journey to Islam how do you expect me to know? Witchcraft?
And why would that be in any way relevant to the question?
And since when do individual converts prove anything about the truth of a religion?
Little by little eventually became bigger and larger, Christianity slowly dies and will be abolished/ eliminated.So while in Europe mostly Christianity is loosing some support, in many other parts of the world it is rapidly growing. And when you look at converts, for Islam there are tiny numbers only.
You wrote; When you become a Muslim..
And I asked you, When did I become a Muslim? ...
But you still unable to answer my simple question
Is it because I was born of an Islamic family?
Is it because I am a Muslim because my parents are Muslims?
Is it because after I say Kalimah Syahadah?
Or else?
Little by little eventually became bigger and larger, Christianity slowly dies and will be abolished/ eliminated.
frankie wrote:NosuperstitionIf I remember correctly , according to the Torah of the Jews ( also known as the Old Testament by Christians ) anyone involved in adultery gets stoned not just women. Muhammed was just reaffirming what was written in the Torah
The Torah is the first five books of the O.T.,it is not the whole of the O.T.but just part of it.
Most people, including Christians, know the difference between the two, apparently you don't.
manfred wrote: The question of stoning for adultery was specifically raised by Jesus in the gospels. "He who is without sin throw the first stone".... Why did Mohammed disregard Jesus who he says is a "prophet"?
SAM wrote:Stories of New Muslims http://bit.ly/2DUkP8Xfrankie wrote:SAM:An extensive study done by the Pew Research Center that Christians are leaving the faith in droves and the trend isn't slowing down
Christianity is growing in areas were persecution of Christians is most prevalent across the world, ironically where the "religion of peace" is found.
Conversely, Islam is shrinking rapidly,because Muslims are learning the truth about it, which will only gain momentum when more and more Muslims realise what they are "signed up to "and leave.
You don't need to take my word for it, the evidence is from the Muslim ummah itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7pChq-3Qjs
I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.
I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.
Of course it is an open ended question regards to what need to be done with those who continue to persist with their previous habits.
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?"
λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς Οὐ λέγω σοι ἕως ἑπτάκις, ἀλλὰ ἕως ἑβδομηκοντάκις ἑπτά.
Jesus says to him, "I say to you not up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!
all that I knew was that Old Testament had many barbaric laws
Explicit evidence of stoning and death penalty for adultery and apostasy are legally written in the Bible, not the Quran.manfred wrote:SAM, about your collection of stoning verses from the Torah, how many times do I need to go over that?
1) You first quote is from Exodus. That is the oldest. You quote one of the ten commandments. They do not specify any punishments.
2) Leviticus is much later, and written during a time of religious and existential crisis for the people of Israel. It also says that eating prawn is an abomination worth death, and wearing clothing made from two different materials. So why has Mohammed, who according to you is so keen on following Leviticus to the letter, ignoring these? Do you have a cotton and polyester shirt, SAM? If yes, why have you not collected a sack of rocks, handed it to you family and asked them to stone you? And that prawn sate? Why are you still breathing?
Leviticus was never a law book or rule book to be followed, but a religious warning. The writer reiterates that adultery is forbidden in Mosaic law. He emphasises this by saying that it is a serious matter, something that "DESERVES" death even. In reality, this have never been carried out, as the article about Jewish history I quoted previously shows.
3) The question of stoning for adultery was specifically raised by Jesus in the gospels. "He who is without sin throw the first stone".... Why did Mohammed disregard Jesus who he says is a "prophet"?
As I said many times that you are still lacking in the knowledge of Islamic doctrine.Kindly stop your trolling. You had this answered previously. "When you become a Muslim" = "when SOMEONE becomes a Muslim". Don't take yourself so seriously that everything I say I about you.
And I have no interest in guessing details of you personal life. Why are you asking? Do like trivia?
EhhhHere you go how little you know... you cannot even tell me where I have a scar from an accident.... the prescription of my glasses, my shoe size, How ignorant you are...
That is about the level of your writing here. Kindly get serious or stop writing.
Actually more Muslims in Iran today than ever before, mostly as religious as they always were. They are proud of their culture and belief system. Christians are desperate to defend Christianity, as Christians are deteriorating in the West. They are looking for a way of understanding, and in many cases, rewriting Christian theology.As frankie has told you, Christianity is actually growing strongly in some parts of the world, and in many Islamic countries, such as Iran, Islam is declining.
I see you personally never met an ex Muslim, who had converted to Christianity except in youtube and in the media stream.frankie wrote:
SAM:I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.
You think wrong.
The Muslims I know who have converted to Christianity live in fear of their lives, which should not be the case since Islam is said to be "the religion of peace", and claims “there is no compulsion in religion”
Here are more Ex Muslims who courageously share their testimonies.
Explicit evidence of stoning and death penalty for adultery and apostasy are legally written in the Bible, not the Quran.
Actually more Muslims in Iran today than ever before, mostly as religious as they always were.
They are proud of their culture and belief system.
Christians are desperate to defend Christianity, as Christians are deteriorating in the West. They are looking for a way of understanding, and in many cases, rewriting Christian theology.
Christian spirituality is dying.
As I said many times that you are still lacking in the knowledge of Islamic doctrine.
No matter what reasons and excuses you want to say. Stoning and death penalty for adultery and apostasy are legally written in the Bible.manfred wrote:
Let me see if I can explain it in a way even you can understand....
SAM steals some prawn crackers from a jar.
Mom is very angry. "I should chop your little grubby ringers off!" She shouts.
But of course she doesn't. In fact later she gives SAM some sticky rice with banana.
Uncle Leviticus is angry about the people near by. Some worship other gods, some commit fornication and adultery. He shouts "Disgusting people. You deserve to die for that." and he writes that into his book for others to read. He wants people to be grateful to God, true to their culture and live good lives. He never killed anyone.
Does Samety SAM understand it now?
Who told you, Prophet Ali Sina?manfred wrote:Actually more Muslims in Iran today than ever before, mostly as religious as they always were.
Yes, the population is growing because people are having babies. But surely the recent protests in Iran have not passed you by. Iran has a culture of its own, much older than Islam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%8 ... n_protestsThey are proud of their culture and belief system.
They are proud of their culture, and for the most part feel enslaved by Islam.
Many Christians don't know that Christianity originate from Paganism.manfred wrote:Christians are desperate to defend Christianity, as Christians are deteriorating in the West. They are looking for a way of understanding, and in many cases, rewriting Christian theology.
Christianity has ALWAYS tried to strive for better understanding. Islam cannot and will not do that, that is the problem. Muslims still stone people to death, throw people of high building and commit murder in the name of their religion. As they have always done. When asked or challenged, Christians will tell you about their believes. When Muslims get asked or challenged they get angry and issue death threats.Christian spirituality is dying.
Says the Muslim who does not know even the meaning of that word.
Don't forget Constantine promoted was a mixture of man-made Christianity and Roman paganism.manfred wrote:As I said many times that you are still lacking in the knowledge of Islamic doctrine.
You do not actually want to talk about the "everybody is born a Muslim" idiocy?
Islam is a filthy corruption giving all religions a bad name for masquerading as the "original". Islam was Mohammed's invention to help Mohammed to get rich and powerful and to get women to sleep with him, which they otherwise wouldn't because he was by Muslim descriptions ugly, and had a horrible body odour problem, bad breath and fleas. If Mohammed had not invented Islam, he would died an obscure, poor and lonely man in Mecca. But his soul would have been a great deal cleaner.
When you will finally get this into your head? Prancing about feigning superiority only makes you look as if your were mentally impaired. But the sentence you wrote I quoted above is just about the only part you wrote so far relevant to the topic. Muslims, by virtue of accepting Islam, become incapable to properly understand Islam, and accept all kinds of garbage as "fact". Then they project they ignorance and backwardness on others and pretend somehow they have something that others should be envious of.
SAM wrote:I see you personally never met an ex Muslim, who had converted to Christianity except in youtube and in the media stream.frankie wrote:
SAM:I don't think you've ever met an ex-Muslim, who has converted to Christianity.
You think wrong.
The Muslims I know who have converted to Christianity live in fear of their lives, which should not be the case since Islam is said to be "the religion of peace", and claims “there is no compulsion in religion”
Here are more Ex Muslims who courageously share their testimonies.
I see you personally never met an ex Muslim, who had converted to Christianity except in youtube and in the media stream.
No matter what reasons and excuses you want to say. Stoning and death penalty for adultery and apostasy are legally written in the Bible.
Who told you, Prophet Ali Sina?
Many Christians don't know that Christianity originate from Paganism.
Many Christians don't know that Christianity originate from Paganism.
"Allah is more exalted and more majestic[65]."
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