What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
Moses, Jesus and other prophets declared as Muslims because they have brought the same message and teachings of Abraham to his people, as required by Allah.
The Abraham of Islam is pure fiction. Show me a pre-Islamic text that claims Abraham or Moses knew anything about Allah, the Kaaba, Islam or Mohammed. Show me any evidence outside of Islamic sources claiming that either person followed Islamic law.

And you still have not told me how Mohammed "improved" the religion of Moses, and how this is logical:

a) Moses was a Muslim
b) Mohammed corrected/improves the religion of Moses
c) therefore Moses was a kafir.

How can Moses be both a Muslim and a kafir?
You still vague, blurry, daze and in confusion with my explanation... :lol: Moses and Jesus, both of them do not have a religion, they never said or declared what the name of their religion. :whistling:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by manfred »

SAM, as you well know you carefully avoided any "explanation" because you have none.

So Moses and and Jesus do not have a religion, you say .... right ... they were atheists? So, as they do not have a religion, they could not possibly be prophets, nor Muslims.

Also, SAM, when a child is born, it has no name. By your logic it therefore does not exist until it is given one.

OK, I appreciate that you tried somehow to answer this time, but perhaps you need to try again.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:SAM, as you well know you carefully avoided any "explanation" because you have none.

So Moses and and Jesus do not have a religion, you say .... right ... they were atheists? So, as they do not have a religion, they could not possibly be prophets, nor Muslims.
Moses and Jesus. both of them, do not have their own religion, which is owned by Abraham and Muhammad perfected it ..
Also, SAM, when a child is born, it has no name. By your logic it therefore does not exist until it is given one.
Allah exists without a name until it was given to him by the descendants of Adam
OK, I appreciate that you tried somehow to answer this time, but perhaps you need to try again.
I appreciate you go back to school to learn more about Islam. :*)
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by manfred »

SAM wrote:Moses and Jesus, both of them do not have a religion
SAM wrote:Moses and Jesus. both of them, do not have their own religion, which is owned by Abraham and Muhammad perfected it ..
And how did Mohammed perfect this religion of Abraham?
An how do you "own" a religion? Copy right laws? Boy, did Mohammed break those.

Allah exists without a name until it was given to him by the descendants of Adam
So "Allah" is a human invention, specifically, an ARAB invention.

Do you know which deity was actually called "Allah" before Mohammed? It certainly was not the God of the bible.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
SAM wrote:Moses and Jesus, both of them do not have a religion
SAM wrote:Moses and Jesus. both of them, do not have their own religion, which is owned by Abraham and Muhammad perfected it ..
And how did Mohammed perfect this religion of Abraham?
An how do you "own" a religion? Copy right laws? Boy, did Mohammed break those.

Allah exists without a name until it was given to him by the descendants of Adam
So "Allah" is a human invention, specifically, an ARAB invention.

Do you know which deity was actually called "Allah" before Mohammed? It certainly was not the God of the bible.
As I have said many times, you still have zero knowledge of Islamic Doctrine.. :lol:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by manfred »

It is your job to put the case for Islam, not mine, and so far you failed miserably. Please try and explain your point of view.
And I am STILL waiting for at least a tiny example of how Mohammed "perfected" the religion that Moses believed in. Come one SAM, there must SOMETHING you can think of?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

It is your failure to elaborate and read between the lines.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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Fernando
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by Fernando »

manfred wrote:How can Moses be both a Muslim and a kafir?
No doubt SAM will tell you that Moses, like Adam, was born a Muslim. He'll probably say Satan got the pharaohs to lead Moses from Islam.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by manfred »

Hello, SAM, I understand Islamic doctrine just fine, but unlike you I can see it does not make any sense even within itself.And usually when you start making comments like that, you merely show that you have run out of things to say.

Please do tell us at least ONE example of how Mohammed improved (not even "perfected") any of the teachings of Moses.

Go on, SAM, just one.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Hello, SAM, I understand Islamic doctrine just fine,
B*llsh*t... You still struggle to find the answer, what is the message of Abraham brought by all prophets of God. :lol:
but unlike you I can see it does not make any sense even within itself.And usually when you start making comments like that, you merely show that you have run out of things to say.
It is you who are confused and groping for answers and can not read between the lines in my answer ... :harhar:
Please do tell us at least ONE example of how Mohammed improved (not even "perfected") any of the teachings of Moses.

Go on, SAM, just one.
Already told you that Moses was not able to fulfill the teachings of Abraham and Allah and the story of Moses and Khidr showed him an imperfect.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by manfred »

I am still waiting. Just ONE tiny thing Moses taught that Mohammed improved ever so slightly, SAM, and you refusal to give a reply screams all over the forum.

I have no intention to guess what goes on in your head SAM, I have better things to do. If you cannot or will not answer me, then that is a clear answer too.

And if all you can do is to post rude comment instead to responding to a question, that also says a lot about you.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:I am still waiting. Just ONE tiny thing Moses taught that Mohammed improved ever so slightly, SAM, and you refusal to give a reply screams all over the forum.

I have no intention to guess what goes on in your head SAM, I have better things to do. If you cannot or will not answer me, then that is a clear answer too.

And if all you can do is to post rude comment instead to responding to a question, that also says a lot about you.
Who cares what you think about me.


As I have said before that the teachings of Christianity and Judaism is incomplete and imperfect...
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by manfred »

As I have said before that the teachings of Christianity and Judaism is incomplete and imperfect...
Again you avoid an answer. Be specific. What was the "imperfection" of the teachings of Moses that Mohammed corrected?

If you do not answer it means that you have no idea, as otherwise this should be a simple thing to do.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Hombre
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by Hombre »

SAM wrote:Who cares what you think about me.


As I have said before that the teachings of Christianity and Judaism is incomplete and imperfect...
Is that the reason 90% stories written in Quran were copied from Hebrew Bible & New Bible?.
Otherwise, Muhammad is true prophet, as much as his stories of "night journeys to Jerusalem & back to Mecca" are true - a total distance of 2800 km.

Mekkah. The very place where those fables "1000 Arabian Night" fictional stories were born. Add the Quran to one of those fables stories.

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

Hombre wrote:
SAM wrote:Who cares what you think about me.


As I have said before that the teachings of Christianity and Judaism is incomplete and imperfect...
Is that the reason 90% stories written in Quran were copied from Hebrew Bible & New Bible?..


In the Quran says, Say (O Muhammad to the Jews):

Say: "If the last Home, with Allah, be for you specially, and not for anyone else, then seek ye for death, if ye are sincere." But they will never seek for death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. and Allah is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers.

"Produce your proof if ye are truthful." :whistling:

The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. :lol:

Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)."
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
As I have said before that the teachings of Christianity and Judaism is incomplete and imperfect...
Again you avoid an answer. Be specific. What was the "imperfection" of the teachings of Moses that Mohammed corrected?

If you do not answer it means that you have no idea, as otherwise this should be a simple thing to do.
Moses and Jesus failed to fulfill the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, Ishamel and Isaac. That is why Judaism and Christianity incomplete and imperfect.

Muhammad has perfected the religious heritage and legacy of Abraham,

Tell me, what is the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, Ismael and Isaac, as well as his grandson, Jacob.

Please don't give imagination answers about the legacy that Abraham left to his sons. :lotpot:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

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Please don't give imagination answers about the legacy that Abraham left to his sons.
SAM, the only reasonably reliable account of the life of Abraham is in Genesis. Nothing at all Islamic tradition has concocted 3000 years after his death is worth a penny.

You are still not giving a reply: what exactly did Mohammed improve on Moses' teachings? An example is needed.

Now your story is getting even more ridiculous:

What did Moses fail on with respect to "Abraham's legacy"? So you hypothesise a religion of Abraham which Moses corrupted and Mohammed corrected. Well, if you look closely, the story of Abraham in Islam is mostly fantasy. No meeting with Nimrod, no fire, no smashing of idols, no kaaba, all lies, and provably so.

Mohammed re-invented Abraham in his own image, as he did for most other biblical characters he spoke about. The simple proof is that if the original sources do not mention what Mohammed said, it is 100% clear that Mohammed invented it. We a;ready had lengthy discussions about the Islamic Abraham.

So again, tell us something Mohammed improved on the religion of Moses. No smoke screens needed. A simple example will do, just one.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

As usual, you always avoiding to give a simple answer when asked.. :lol:

What is the legacy or a message that Abraham left to his sons, Ismael and Isaac, as well as his grandson, Jacob.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

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Abraham's legacy to his sons and to the world is the belief in a single God, the source of all goodness and never-ending love, a God what cares about humanity and involves himself in human history.

And Moses did not believe in the God of Abraham? You whole song and dance is a mere distraction from you failure to answer the question and as usual totally irrelevant.

So, will you tell me what IMPROVEMENTS Mohammed brought to the teachings of Moses? As you keep refusing any answer it is clear that you don't know. And you you don't know any because there aren't any!
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: What would Moses do about Mohammed?

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Abraham's legacy to his sons and to the world is the belief in a single God, the source of all goodness and never-ending love, a God what cares about humanity and involves himself in human history.

And Moses did not believe in the God of Abraham?
And the Jews say that Moses is the only teacher, and denied that he was a prophet and also denies Jesus is the Messiah.
So, will you tell me what IMPROVEMENTS Mohammed brought? As you keep refusing any answer it is clear that you don't know. And you you don't know any because there aren't any!
You do not have solid proof that Moses and Jesus once said that religion taught by them is complete. If not, please provide evidence verse of the Torah and the Bible that Moses and Jesus, saying their religion is perfect and complete.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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