Games Muslims play: Quran 109:1-6

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Games Muslims play: Quran 109:1-6

Post by pert »

Islamapologists always use this to try and prove Muhammad was tolerant,what is a good counter argument?
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Re: Games Muslims play: Quran 109:1-6

Post by manfred »

pert wrote:Islamapologists always use this to try and prove Muhammad was tolerant,what is a good counter argument?
Well, is passage actually has nothing whatever to do with Mohammed being "tolerant".

We have the context explained to us in various hadith, here is one of them:
According to Hadrat Abdullah bin Abbas, the Quraish proposed to the Holy Prophet; "We shall give you so much of wealth that you will become the richest man of Makkah; we shall give you whichever woman you like in marriage; we are prepared to follow and obey you as our leader, only on the condition that you will not speak ill of our gods. If you do not agree to this, we present another proposal which is to your as well as to our advantage." When the Holy Prophet asked what it was, they said that if he would worship their gods, Lat and Uzza, for a year, THEY WOULD WORSHIP HIS GOD FOR THE SAME SPACE TIME. The Holy Prophet said: "Wait awhile; let me see what my Lord commands in this regard." Thereupon the revelation came down: Qul ya-ayyuhal-kafirun...and: Qul afa-ghair Allahi...(Az-Zumar: 64): "Say to them: ignorant people do you bid me to worship others than Allah?" (Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim, Tabarani). According to another tradition from Ibn Abbas, the Quraish said to the Holy Prophet: "O Muhammad, if you kiss our gods, the idols, we shall worship your God." Thereupon, this Surah was sent down. (Abd bin Humaid).
So the word of the surah is completely unrelated to any expression of religion tolerance.

It is a REJECTION. A forceful rejection of a proposal made by his tribesmen to keep the peace. Far from declaring tolerance, it is about angrily rejecting a peace proposal. Far from open to compromise it rejects all negotiation.

As this is an early Meccan surah, Mohammed was not able to follow up his rejection with action. This, however, he did, after he conquered Mecca: he expelled all non-Muslims, a situation kept to this day.

There is another problem with that passage: it is clear that is about the "polytheists", and not so much the Jews and Christians.

But about them, we also read this:
The worshippers of false gods say: "If Allah had so willed, we should not have worshipped aught but Him - neither we nor our fathers,- nor should we have prescribed prohibitions other than His." So did those who went before them. But what is the mission of messengers but to preach the Clear Message? S. 16:35
There are similar such verses... they say that the "polytheists" actually DO worship "Allah", but not exclusively. This contradicts the suggestion in your passage which says they do not "worship Allah". As both cannot be true at the same time, I am waiting for SAM's tap-dance...
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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Re: Games Muslims play: Quran 109:1-6

Post by piscohot »

pert wrote:Islamapologists always use this to try and prove Muhammad was tolerant,what is a good counter argument?
quran 109 is the early Meccan suras.
Revealed at a time when Muhammad was not in the position of power. Muhammad was merely responding to the Meccans offering to worship Allah, in return that Muhammad worship theirs. How does this prove Muhammad's tolerance?
The reason the Meccans made the offer to Muhammad was to try stop Muhammad from disparaging their gods. So it seems that it was the Meccans who demonstrated tolerance, not Muhammad.

Of course when the muslims gained power, sura 9 was revealed.
What tolerance are the muslims talking about?
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."
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