Knowing the real Mohammed

[frankie]

Dear Muslims,
perhaps I may invite you to share with us your views of this Mohammed.

Who was he?
What does he mean to you?
How did you learn this?

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

From my experience Muhammad should be learn and understood from the Qur'an alone. Logically "Without the Qur'an than there is no Muhammad".

I see it like this:

"There are three which can not be seperated, that is God, Muhammad and the Qur'an, and these three are one". And I tell you, whosoever remove any of this from the list - shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

abc123:

From my experience Muhammad should be learn and understood from the Qur'an alone. Logically "Without the Qur'an than there is no Muhammad".

Mohammed is given to be the Muslims role model in all things Islamic, as he was the one who understood the Quran the best, and put it into action the way Allah intended.

Given this to be the case, how do Muslims emulate Mohammed's example by reading the Quran alone?

How does this work, as you claim "logically", please explain.

[abc123]

how do Muslims emulate Mohammed's example by reading the Quran alone?

How does this work, as you claim "logically", please explain.

Logically, in that time there was nothing for him to follow other than the Qur'an itself. Here is a statement concerning it in the Qur'an:

"Say: I do not say to you, that I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; I only follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and the seeing one alike? Do you not then reflect?"

Bearing that in mind, I just do like him by looking straight to the source, the same source he used.
Therefore - I emulate him.

[frankie]

how do Muslims emulate Mohammed's example by reading the Quran alone?

How does this work, as you claim "logically", please explain.

Logically, in that time there was nothing for him to follow other than the Qur'an itself. Here is a statement concerning it in the Qur'an:

"Say: I do not say to you, that I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; I only follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and the seeing one alike? Do you not then reflect?"

Bearing that in mind, I just do like him by looking straight to the source, the same source he used.
Therefore - I emulate him.

abc123:

Logically, in that time there was nothing for him to follow other than the Qur'an itself.

Bearing that in mind, I just do like him by looking straight to the source, the same source he used

When Mohammed looked at these two verses below, how did he put them into action?

Quran 3.151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with God, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
Quran 8.12
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

[manfred]

Suppose a man moves to a mostly Jewish town as a refugee and he is made welcome.

Then, after some time, he claims he should rule over that town, and he beheads between 600 and 900 inhabitants and buries them in the market place. In addition he sells the women and children as slaves, some as sex slaves, and distributes all their belongings to his supporters, keeping 20% for himself.

When asked to account for his action he says "I only follow that which is revealed to me."

Should he be in prison or a mental hospital?

[Fernando]

From my experience Muhammad should be learn and understood from the Qur'an alone. Logically "Without the Qur'an than there is no Muhammad".

I see it like this:

"There are three which can not be seperated, that is God, Muhammad and the Qur'an, and these three are one".

The Islamic Holy Trinity, no less. Plagiarism at its best!

[abc123]

how do Muslims emulate Mohammed's example by reading the Quran alone?

How does this work, as you claim "logically", please explain.

Logically, in that time there was nothing for him to follow other than the Qur'an itself. Here is a statement concerning it in the Qur'an:

"Say: I do not say to you, that I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; I only follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and the seeing one alike? Do you not then reflect?"

Bearing that in mind, I just do like him by looking straight to the source, the same source he used.
Therefore - I emulate him.

abc123:

Logically, in that time there was nothing for him to follow other than the Qur'an itself.

Bearing that in mind, I just do like him by looking straight to the source, the same source he used

When Mohammed looked at these two verses below, how did he put them into action?

Quran 3.151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with God, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
Quran 8.12
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

When I was kid we play (paranormal type) magic, stupid magic that never give result as per seller of the amulet. But my interest in it never subside. A decade or so later when I was on holiday and had nothing to do I borrowed books from the library, all about paranormal. And in no time I put them into action - alone - no spectators no cheering crowd. After quite some time I manage to work it out what actually it was all about, OR at least one that I understand. I put them into practice in public places, at work, among friends and even to my family. I asked my sister as what did he feel? she said "I feel so tired I am scared".

So when I read those verses and others that are similar I knew right away what it is, the effect in their brains reduced their ability to perform. And when that happened in the middle of the fighting, that is terrorizing feeling. Two parties hit the same wave, yet they perceive it differently.

So one day when I heard a lecturer in the mosque explaining it by using hadith books and said according to so and so, I yawn. Experience is still my best teacher.

[manfred]

I disagree. Magic amulets are extremely effective... for the seller. Good money for trinkets, that has to be magic.

[frankie]

abc123:

Logically, in that time there was nothing for him to follow other than the Qur'an itself.

Bearing that in mind, I just do like him by looking straight to the source, the same source he used

When Mohammed looked at these two verses below, how did he put them into action?

Quran 3.151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with God, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
Quran 8.12
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."[/quote]
When I was kid we play (paranormal type) magic, stupid magic that never give result as per seller of the amulet. But my interest in it never subside. A decade or so later when I was on holiday and had nothing to do I borrowed books from the library, all about paranormal. And in no time I put them into action - alone - no spectators no cheering crowd. After quite some time I manage to work it out what actually it was all about, OR at least one that I understand. I put them into practice in public places, at work, among friends and even to my family. I asked my sister as what did he feel? she said "I feel so tired I am scared".

So when I read those verses and others that are similar I knew right away what it is, the effect in their brains reduced their ability to perform. And when that happened in the middle of the fighting, that is terrorizing feeling. Two parties hit the same wave, yet they perceive it differently.

So one day when I heard a lecturer in the mosque explaining it by using hadith books and said according to so and so, I yawn. Experience is still my best teacher.[/quote]


abc123:

Logically, in that time there was nothing for him to follow other than the Qur'an itself.

Your personal history is of no importance to me, or this subject.

Please answer my question.

How did Mohammed follow these verses?

Quran 3.151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with God, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
Quran 8.12
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

[abc123]

Your personal history is of no importance to me, or this subject.

Actually my method is the real tafsir of that, I cracked the holy grail - so to speak.

Please answer my question.

How did Mohammed follow these verses?

Quran 3.151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with God, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
Quran 8.12
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

If you read the Qur'an with open mind you would see it, but you use the "search" button to find the word "Terror" and copy paste it.

He was told to be firm when in time of difficulties, God always assist:

"Remember ye implored the assistance of your Lord, and He answered you: "I will assist you with a thousand of the angels, ranks on ranks."

[frankie]

Your personal history is of no importance to me, or this subject.

Actually my method is the real tafsir of that, I cracked the holy grail - so to speak.

Please answer my question.

How did Mohammed follow these verses?

Quran 3.151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with God, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
Quran 8.12
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

If you read the Qur'an with open mind you would see it, but you use the "search" button to find the word "Terror" and copy paste it.

He was told to be firm when in time of difficulties, God always assist:

"Remember ye implored the assistance of your Lord, and He answered you: "I will assist you with a thousand of the angels, ranks on ranks."

If you read the Qur'an with open mind you would see it, but you use the "search" button to find the word "Terror" and copy paste it.

Any god who uses terror as its modus operandi is a tyrannical despot of a god, which permits terrorism in its name.

And btw, Allah is allegedly the same god which told Jesus to preach compassion, peace, forgiveness and love for ALL humanity, including enemies, regardless of their faith, but here we have Allah diametrically opposing everything Jesus stood for!

According to the Bible, anyone preaching a different message to the Bible prophets condemns them as false prophets who speak in the name of Satan, not Yahweh.

Mohammed met this criteria, he actioned Allah’s words by using terrorism to bring people to a faith which diametrically opposes the Bible prophets message of repentance of sin, and to follow the Ten Commandments, based on love of God, and love of all humanity.

Allah is a god who does not love “unbelievers “as they are the “enemies of Islam and its people”Qs 3.31-32 30.43-45, tafsir 5.51

Allah therefore cannot be Yahweh, as any god worthy of the name should be consistent with his dealings with humanity.

“Actually my method is the real tafsir of that”

It’s not your tafsir that holds authority for Muslims; it is only Muslim scholarship which does.

“He was told to be firm when in time of difficulties, God always assist”

Mohammed was told to:
“cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with God,”

“Unbelievers” according to Allah are those who do not accept him as the only god worthy of worship, especially Christians, who Allah mistakenly believes have “joined companions with god”by worshipping Jesus as God, and therefore deserve to be terrorised into submission to “change their ways.”

Allah repeats himself again in verse 8.12 compounding his command to terrorise “unbelievers” into submission:
"I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers”

Being an “unbeliever” automatically makes you a target to be terrorised into submission to Allah’s rules.

Mohammed carried out Allah’s instructions by terrorising non combatants into submission to accept Islam, which continues to this day.
https://sunnah.com/muslim/32

Sahih Muslim: Book 19, Number 4294,
Sahih Muslim Book 19 Number 4292


Your faith is nothing more than a terrorist organisation under the guise of a fake religion.

Anyone with sound mind should be ashamed to be associated with such a regime, and want to have nothing more to do with it.

[abc123]

If you read the Qur'an with open mind you would see it, but you use the "search" button to find the word "Terror" and copy paste it.

Any god who uses terror as its modus operandi is a tyrannical despot of a god, which permits terrorism in its name.

They were in the war mate, they were not hugging each other and saying "Peace unto you".

And btw, Allah is allegedly the same god which told Jesus to preach compassion, peace, forgiveness and love for ALL humanity, including enemies, regardless of their faith, but here we have Allah diametrically opposing everything Jesus stood for!

The Qur'an is not a book with only 2 verses in it which contain the word "Terror", just FYI.

"The good deed and the evil deed are not alike. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity (will become) as though he was a bosom friend"

According to the Bible, anyone preaching a different message to the Bible prophets condemns them as false prophets who speak in the name of Satan, not Yahweh.

Don't be too hateful to the fellow human. We are merely believers who are trying to get close to God with our on ways. Take a deep breath mate.

Mohammed met this criteria, he actioned Allah’s words by using terrorism to bring people to a faith which diametrically opposes the Bible prophets message of repentance of sin, and to follow the Ten Commandments, based on love of God, and love of all humanity.

Etc

[frankie]

If you read the Qur'an with open mind you would see it, but you use the "search" button to find the word "Terror" and copy paste it.

Any god who uses terror as its modus operandi is a tyrannical despot of a god, which permits terrorism in its name.

They were in the war mate, they were not hugging each other and saying "Peace unto you".

And btw, Allah is allegedly the same god which told Jesus to preach compassion, peace, forgiveness and love for ALL humanity, including enemies, regardless of their faith, but here we have Allah diametrically opposing everything Jesus stood for!

The Qur'an is not a book with only 2 verses in it which contain the word "Terror", just FYI.

"The good deed and the evil deed are not alike. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity (will become) as though he was a bosom friend"

According to the Bible, anyone preaching a different message to the Bible prophets condemns them as false prophets who speak in the name of Satan, not Yahweh.

Don't be too hateful to the fellow human. We are merely believers who are trying to get close to God with our on ways. Take a deep breath mate.

Mohammed met this criteria, he actioned Allah’s words by using terrorism to bring people to a faith which diametrically opposes the Bible prophets message of repentance of sin, and to follow the Ten Commandments, based on love of God, and love of all humanity.

Etc

abc123:

They were in the war mate, they were not hugging each other and saying "Peace unto you".

The war was between Mohammed and his Islamic armies against non combatants, who were terrorised because they were not Muslims, which is eternally codified within Islamic doctrine because of Mohammed's obedience to the Quran.

Islam puts Muslims at war with Non Muslims until they accept Allah as the only god, your prophet admitted this was his mission which had been "revealed "to him from Allah, reported in Bukhari 52.4.196

Being an "unbeliever "marks you out as a target for aggression against you, the Quran commands it,and Mohammed obeyed the Quran.

Mohammed and his "raiding troops "invaded innocent peoples lands, killed those who defended their lives, stole their properties, and took the remaining women and children as sex slaves.

These are not the actions of a prophet of God, they are certainly not the actions of a man called by the Bible God, to be His representative.

They are the actions of a tyrannical thief and vagabond, using a religious context to get wealthy at the expense of innocent people, and this is the man you hold as a perfect role model to control your entire life.

We are merely believers who are trying to get close to God with our on ways.

As a Muslim you are obliged to be obedient to your god Allah, and follow the ways and example of your prophet, Mohammed, as the Quran is your book of guidance, and your prophet is your example, "your own ways "then are totally irrelevant and futile.

[abc123]

abc123:

They were in the war mate, they were not hugging each other and saying "Peace unto you".

frankie:
The war was between Mohammed and his Islamic armies against non combatants, who were terrorised because they were not Muslims, which is eternally codified within Islamic doctrine because of Mohammed's obedience to the Quran.

Islam puts Muslims at war with Non Muslims until they accept Allah as the only god, your prophet admitted this was his mission which had been "revealed "to him from Allah, reported in Bukhari 52.4.196

"How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah, when the feeble among men and of the women and the children are crying: Our Lord! Bring us forth out from this town of which the people are oppressors!
Oh, give us from thy presence some protecting friend!
Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender!"

The rest of the text is irrelevant because it premise hangs on the first assumption.

We are merely believers who are trying to get close to God with our on ways.

As a Muslim you are obliged to be obedient to your god Allah, and follow the ways and example of your prophet, Mohammed, as the Quran is your book of guidance, and your prophet is your example, "your own ways "then are totally irrelevant and futile.

My ways is the trimmed version ritual, based as close as possible to Qur'an, except when there is no way out.

[frankie]

abc123:

They were in the war mate, they were not hugging each other and saying "Peace unto you".

frankie:
The war was between Mohammed and his Islamic armies against non combatants, who were terrorised because they were not Muslims, which is eternally codified within Islamic doctrine because of Mohammed's obedience to the Quran.

Islam puts Muslims at war with Non Muslims until they accept Allah as the only god, your prophet admitted this was his mission which had been "revealed "to him from Allah, reported in Bukhari 52.4.196

"How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah, when the feeble among men and of the women and the children are crying: Our Lord! Bring us forth out from this town of which the people are oppressors!
Oh, give us from thy presence some protecting friend!
Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender!"

The rest of the text is irrelevant because it premise hangs on the first assumption.

We are merely believers who are trying to get close to God with our on ways.

As a Muslim you are obliged to be obedient to your god Allah, and follow the ways and example of your prophet, Mohammed, as the Quran is your book of guidance, and your prophet is your example, "your own ways "then are totally irrelevant and futile.

My ways is the trimmed version ritual, based as close as possible to Qur'an, except when there is no way out.

abc123:

The Islamic book of Jurisprudence The Reliance of the Traveller proves you wrong.

Reliance of the Traveller:
[Section o9.0, page 599]
"Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word "mujahada", signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self, (nafs), which is why the Prophet said as he was returning from jihad, "We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad."
o9.0 JIHAD
(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion…
The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus is such Koranic verses as:
(1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216);
(2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89);
(3) “Fight the idolators utterly” (Koran 9:36);
and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
“I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah”;
and the hadith reported by Muslim,
Sahih Muslim Volume 4, Book 52, Number 50:
“To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.

My ways is the trimmed version ritual, based as close as possible to Qur'an, except when there is no way out.

And "when there is no way out",what do you refer to, to complete your Islamic rituals?

[abc123]

abc123:

The Islamic book of Jurisprudence The Reliance of the Traveller proves you wrong.

I am an independent individual, but you are entitle to an opinion.

Reliance of the Traveller:
[Section o9.0, page 599]-------

Etc

abc123

My ways is the trimmed version ritual, based as close as possible to Qur'an, except when there is no way out.

frankie

And "when there is no way out",what do you refer to, to complete your Islamic rituals?

In hajj ritual (for an example) I move by following the flow although I prefer relax walk as per Qur'an, but in the hajj it can't be done.

[frankie]

abc123:

The Islamic book of Jurisprudence The Reliance of the Traveller proves you wrong.

I am an independent individual, but you are entitle to an opinion.

Reliance of the Traveller:
[Section o9.0, page 599]-------

Etc

abc123

My ways is the trimmed version ritual, based as close as possible to Qur'an, except when there is no way out.

frankie

And "when there is no way out",what do you refer to, to complete your Islamic rituals?

In hajj ritual (for an example) I move by following the flow although I prefer relax walk as per Qur'an, but in the hajj it can't be done.

abc123:

The Islamic book of Jurisprudence The Reliance of the Traveller proves you wrong.
I am an independent individual, but you are entitle to an opinion.

The Reliance of the Traveller "is not my opinion "it comes from Islam's highest authority in Muslim scholarship, this is THE book which all Sunni Muslim Imams etc refer to when wanting answers about their faith, which they will pass on to their listeners, as and when required.

When an Imam comes to the section called "Jihad" what will his answer be to his co religionist wanting to know how his prophet performed jihad to be in obedience to Allah?

If he is a Muslim true to his faith he will tell his pupil that Mohammed fought and killed non combatants for worldly profit, as well as the assured entrance into a carnal paradise,whilst being "killed for fighting in Allah's cause" where he will be served by perpetual virgins, whilst lying on sumptuous couches, drinking as much wine as he wants.

The emphasis of course is only on a male Muslim, as for the female Muslim, she will just have to make do with her favourite husband for eternity, that is, if she ever had one.

Any belief system purporting to be a religion advocating and condoning terrorism in its gods name is a fake one, as true religion is purely based on the spiritual warfare against a spiritual evil.

Mohammed/Allah turned a virtuous religious duty into an ideological vice, which all Muslims believe to be their religious obligation to perform, to "kill and get killed"as the " supreme achievement"
Quran9.111.

Mohammed proved by his actions of obeying his god Allah, to be a false prophet, who are deceivers, Mohammed did not speak in the name of the God he claimed to represent, he diametrically opposed everything Yahweh, the Bible God commands, by following the actions of Mohammed, who obeyed the Quran, Muslims are being lead away from the God of the Bible's teachings, towards the "opposition", who is Satan, who works to mis lead and undo everything the Bible God stands for.

I see it like this:

"There are three which can not be separated, that is God, Muhammad and the Qur'an, and these three are one".

And so, you accept terrorism in the name of your faith as a religious duty, which in turn puts you in opposition in the name of the God Mohammed deceptively used to gain power, wealth and control,all at your expense, because you are part of this erroneous and dangerous faith.

Well done, you are effectively part of Mohammed's deception.

[Fernando]

If he is a Muslim true to his faith he will tell his pupil that Mohammed fought and killed non combatants for worldly profit, as well as the assured entrance into a carnal paradise,whilst being "killed for fighting in Allah's cause" where he will be served by perpetual virgins, whilst lying on sumptuous couches, drinking as much wine as he wants.

The emphasis of course is only on a male Muslim, as for the female Muslim, she will just have to make do with her favourite husband for eternity, that is, if she ever had one.

What about the "boys like pearls"? Is it established whether they are for the men or for the women? I fancy the devout Muslim men of Afghanistan, at least, will have their own ideas.

[panis]

Our Lord! Bring us forth out from this town of which the people are oppressors!

Quraysh were not oppressors
biography of muhammad based on muslim's sources
http://www.faithfreedom.org/a-short-bio ... -muhammad/

[SAM]

I am asking who he is TO YOU.

Who was he?
What does he mean to you?
How did you learn this?

Muhammad ibn Abdullah. He is just a human being like us. He's just an example of a real true Muhammad Rasullah. That is why Muhammad ibn Abdullah forbade himself described, images or sculptures made like Jesus.

[manfred]

OK, a start, good. But somehow you are shy to go into details it seems. Also, Mohammed forbade himself described, and yet many of his followers did just that, providing us not only an unusually detailed picture of his actions, but also his habits and appearance.

Sam, as you started, can tell me more? What does he mean to you?

As to this thing about images and sculptures, somehow I never had the urge to pray to my holiday snaps nor to the gargoyle like things which sit on the corners of my home and really is just drains. The prohibition of taking a human image in the middle east is based on a very old superstition, and little else.

OK a man, you say. What else are you willing to share?