Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:Goodness, another off-topic...??? PLEASE at least try to stick to topics or open your own ones.

This is a thread about Islamic attitude or views about Jews. Ancient Egypt really has nothing to do with it. And we went over that particular hobby horse before. In ancient Egypt existed a so-called retainer sacrifice which is a type of human sacrifice in which pharaohs and occasionally other high court nobility would have servants killed after the Pharaohs' deaths to continue to serve them in the afterlife. This was gradually abolished, mostly when Hellenistic views became influential in Egypt. Other cultures in the Middle East in ancient times also had various forms of human sacrifice, but notably the Israelites did not, they never did, and the topic is disposed of early in their history in the biblical story of Isaac and Abraham.

Muslims also do not have human sacrifice, nor ever had any, so why this is here I really do not know.
NS, in this thread at try to discuss the issue raise at the start, Jews and Muslims.

No Hindus, no "from the old forum", no human sacrifice, no castes, no advice of diet, no stories from your mom however interesting they are, no whatever. Just Muslims and Jews, please.
Then you could also have taken glitch to task for bringing out his high opinion that the Jews were the first to get over the delusion of human sacrifice.You always seem to give him a pass ,but when I write,you jump up and down telling everyone that I am derailing the topic.Unless carbon dating or such things are done,it is hard to establish who influenced whom.Story of burnt sacrifice of Jephtah's daughter also proves that at one point of time,even Jews practiced human sacrifice.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by manfred »

You have sufficient replies to all of that before. Human sacrifice is not the topic here. This is a topic related to Islam/Muslims and their view of the Jewish people. Unless you are trying to say the intifada is all about the story of Jephtah, you are off the rails again.

And as explained before, that story is not about human sacrifice, but about rash promises.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

Nosuperstition
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:You have sufficient replies to all of that before. Human sacrifice is not the topic here. This is a topic related to Islam/Muslims and their view of the Jewish people. Unless you are trying to say the intifada is all about the story of Jephtah, you are off the rails again.

And as explained before, that story is not about human sacrifice, but about rash promises.
How does glitch get a pass by trying to justify in off topic comments about the genocide of Canaanites very often by mentioning about their human sacrifice and the lack of it by Israelites,but I get haunted by you when I try to rectify him.An omnipotent ,all knowing God could have averted the burnt sacrifice of Jephtah either by preventing her from being the first to come out of the house of Jephtah or by replicating what supposedly happened in case of Abraham and Isaac.The fact that he chose not to shows that he approved of her sacrifice/that the early Jews had no compunctions about human sacrifices.God did not say at the end of the story that 'thou shall not make rash promises'.Case closed.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by manfred »

Seriously? So God approves of drunk driving too? When he did not stop the attack on the Christmas market in Berlin, does that show God is on the side of IS?

You do sometimes come out with some really silly stuff....

And "God did not say..." is also quite a hilarious argument..... You did not say you disapprove of raping babies or eating your own grandmother. Therefore are we to conclude that is what you approve of?

For goodness sake read the story, it really is self-evident what it is trying to tell you. Jephtah is not an example for others to follow, he is a COUNTER-example, doing something people should avoid doing.

And it is, by Hebrew bible standards, not a very old text, but was written some 200 years after king David. It is partly historical, partly also anecdotal, relaying stories for the sake of of a teaching point. We cannot even say there ever really was a Jephtah, or if any of that really happened.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

glitch
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by glitch »

Nosuperstition wrote:
manfred wrote:You have sufficient replies to all of that before. Human sacrifice is not the topic here. This is a topic related to Islam/Muslims and their view of the Jewish people. Unless you are trying to say the intifada is all about the story of Jephtah, you are off the rails again.

And as explained before, that story is not about human sacrifice, but about rash promises.
How does glitch get a pass by trying to justify in off topic comments about the genocide of Canaanites very often by mentioning about their human sacrifice and the lack of it by Israelites,but I get haunted by you when I try to rectify him.An omnipotent ,all knowing God could have averted the burnt sacrifice of Jephtah either by preventing her from being the first to come out of the house of Jephtah or by replicating what supposedly happened in case of Abraham and Isaac.The fact that he chose not to shows that he approved of her sacrifice/that the early Jews had no compunctions about human sacrifices.God did not say at the end of the story that 'thou shall not make rash promises'.Case closed.
Seriously, prove Jeptah was sacrificed. Prove it, the bible doesnt even say she was sacrificed.

Nosuperstition
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by Nosuperstition »

glitch wrote:Seriously, prove Jeptah was sacrificed. Prove it, the bible doesnt even say she was sacrificed.
"If thou wilt deliver the children of Ammon into my hands, whosoever shall first come forth out of the doors of my house, and shall meet me when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, the same will I offer a holocaust to the Lord.
At the expiration of the two months "she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed."
The obvious import of the narrative is that the daughter of Jephte was offered up as a human sacrifice, and in fact, such has been the unanimous interpretation of it in Jewish, as well as in early Christian, tradition
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08333b.htm

The above link is a respectable/reputed source, that of Catholicism itself.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by Nosuperstition »

Wootah wrote:There really is a better explanation for all sacrifice and it is the reason that began in the book of genesis where God killed an animal to cloth Adam and Eve. In essence creation is sacrificed/sacrificing so that we may live and God in Jesus was the perfect sacrifice
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=8391&p=133014&hili ... ce#p133014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is her explanation for sacrifices animal/human/perfect God-incarnates.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by manfred »

Big red writing does not hide your selective copying you your source, to use for your anti-semitic agenda.

1) Nobody has ever denied that the daughter was killed. However the text clearly tells us that the daughter of Jephte agreed to die to honour her father's promise.
2) Neither your article nor anyone else, nor the bible, suggests this is a description of a common practice by the Israelites, or even something they approved of. It is not a recommendation or an approval of human sacrifice. Human sacrifice is forbidden in Mosaic law. If you look at the last verse of the chapter you find:
That from year to year the daughters of Israel assemble together, and lament the daughter of Jephte the Galaadite for four days.
The story is presented as a WARNING to make rash promises, not as a justification for human sacrifice.

And your other quote is completely unconnected with the story of Jephta.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

glitch
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by glitch »

Nosuperstition wrote:And it is believable to believe that 2 bears can devour many 24 year adults to satiate their dinosaur appetites.

And that is not the only instance when children get victimised in the O.T when God of Abraham is offended/when his people/prophets are offended.
Funny how you don't provide an example... you just say it happened. Hey, what if i lie and say someone robbed me and i can provide no evidence? i guess it happened cause i say so?

glitch
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by glitch »

Hombre wrote:
Nosuperstition wrote:I have seen in Hollywood films in which wives speak of their pious or virtuous or good husbands as God fearing.In Islam and Christianity due to the concepts of One life with one everlasting Heaven and one everlasting Hell,the period for which this God fearing enforced goodness should exist is for all of life and by I am not stretching anything by any stretch of imagination. :thumbdown:

And word 'naar' in Hebrew is used for both lads and 24 year old young men according to one site on the net.Now if Abraham had to wait until some 100+ years to conceive in those time periods i.e if he were to become sexually mature at 100+ years of age(living for 100s of years by many of the mythical characters of the O.T is seen as a sign of piety),24 years does seem to be pretty young age if one goes by those texts,even if they are assumed to be 24.

Now And those people have not planned to kill him.Show me where it says so,instead of making up excuses and stories.They just make a mockery of him calling him 'bald head'.That by no means is sufficient enough to cause them to be devoured by bears.So in effect silencing of critics is done even if it is to be done with cursing your opponents with death with the power of God.Same is the case in Islam.
You missed the ending of that movie. Those bears which you mention, ended up devouring hamburgers in that McDonald fastfood on Hollywood Blvd. Then, to show they treat all religion equally, they went to Humus/Fallafel & Sheesh kabab places and devourd them too.

As for the word "na'ar" נער usually referred to teen age boys - not necessarily to 24 year old man

So what? Teenage Boys, can go to war, and kill and do all kinds of Damage. Children past the age of 13 are Men and capable of killing, hurting, robbing. Abraham couldn't concieve at all, stop twisting crap.

glitch
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by glitch »

Nosuperstition wrote:
manfred wrote:Goodness, another off-topic...??? PLEASE at least try to stick to topics or open your own ones.

This is a thread about Islamic attitude or views about Jews. Ancient Egypt really has nothing to do with it. And we went over that particular hobby horse before. In ancient Egypt existed a so-called retainer sacrifice which is a type of human sacrifice in which pharaohs and occasionally other high court nobility would have servants killed after the Pharaohs' deaths to continue to serve them in the afterlife. This was gradually abolished, mostly when Hellenistic views became influential in Egypt. Other cultures in the Middle East in ancient times also had various forms of human sacrifice, but notably the Israelites did not, they never did, and the topic is disposed of early in their history in the biblical story of Isaac and Abraham.

Muslims also do not have human sacrifice, nor ever had any, so why this is here I really do not know.
NS, in this thread at try to discuss the issue raise at the start, Jews and Muslims.

No Hindus, no "from the old forum", no human sacrifice, no castes, no advice of diet, no stories from your mom however interesting they are, no whatever. Just Muslims and Jews, please.
Then you could also have taken glitch to task for bringing out his high opinion that the Jews were the first to get over the delusion of human sacrifice.You always seem to give him a pass ,but when I write,you jump up and down telling everyone that I am derailing the topic.Unless carbon dating or such things are done,it is hard to establish who influenced whom.Story of burnt sacrifice of Jephtah's daughter also proves that at one point of time,even Jews practiced human sacrifice.
Dude, you and every other god hater on her, constantly do this. The Bible is clear on this suibject human sacrifice is wrong, just like its clear on Rape, just like its clear on many things. You and everyone like you constantly bring up every little nitpicky thing possible and then you run away like a little waaah waaah and won't really talk about... The Jephtah's story does not show that God was pleased Jephta offeres up his daughter in fact, Jephtah is wrong and the bible doesn't even say she's killed.

panis
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by panis »

glitch wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EdaAR0frtw

I find that his examples are a few. Also free speech doesn't really exist under islam, so i don't see it as people really speaking up against Islam. :clueless:
Islam Explained is a liar, Muhammad and muslims hate the Jews

Nosuperstition
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by Nosuperstition »

glitch wrote:
Hombre wrote:
Nosuperstition wrote:I have seen in Hollywood films in which wives speak of their pious or virtuous or good husbands as God fearing.In Islam and Christianity due to the concepts of One life with one everlasting Heaven and one everlasting Hell,the period for which this God fearing enforced goodness should exist is for all of life and by I am not stretching anything by any stretch of imagination. :thumbdown:

And word 'naar' in Hebrew is used for both lads and 24 year old young men according to one site on the net.Now if Abraham had to wait until some 100+ years to conceive in those time periods i.e if he were to become sexually mature at 100+ years of age(living for 100s of years by many of the mythical characters of the O.T is seen as a sign of piety),24 years does seem to be pretty young age if one goes by those texts,even if they are assumed to be 24.

Now And those people have not planned to kill him.Show me where it says so,instead of making up excuses and stories.They just make a mockery of him calling him 'bald head'.That by no means is sufficient enough to cause them to be devoured by bears.So in effect silencing of critics is done even if it is to be done with cursing your opponents with death with the power of God.Same is the case in Islam.
You missed the ending of that movie. Those bears which you mention, ended up devouring hamburgers in that McDonald fastfood on Hollywood Blvd. Then, to show they treat all religion equally, they went to Humus/Fallafel & Sheesh kabab places and devourd them too.

As for the word "na'ar" נער usually referred to teen age boys - not necessarily to 24 year old man

So what? Teenage Boys, can go to war, and kill and do all kinds of Damage. Children past the age of 13 are Men and capable of killing, hurting, robbing. Abraham couldn't concieve at all, stop twisting crap.
Yes the present monsters of ISIS are the result of children of Sunni areas seeing their moms and dads being burned alive with fire from sky in the second Gulf war.So now you want to be in the same league as Muhammad when he ordered all those potential Jewish teenagers with public hairs to be culled off straightaway post war in order to mitigate danger in future?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by Nosuperstition »

A child's father can also be a thief & also a Prophet
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16058&p=211836&hilit=danta#p211836" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Every civilisation in history had embarked upon conquests whereby they would have by dacoity confiscated riches and land belonging to others.Dacoity is far worse if it involves death of many more people.Some might have been more severe in the scale and intensity of their conquests and some less.Yet children do not know of all these things and naturally they feel like avenging the death of their loved ones.Personally I do not have any problems with leaving muslims in their own countries to practice whatever they want unless it spills over with global ambitions.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

glitch
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by glitch »

Nosuperstition wrote:
A child's father can also be a thief & also a Prophet
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16058&p=211836&hilit=danta#p211836" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Every civilisation in history had embarked upon conquests whereby they would have by dacoity confiscated riches and land belonging to others.Dacoity is far worse if it involves death of many more people.Some might have been more severe in the scale and intensity of their conquests and some less.Yet children do not know of all these things and naturally they feel like avenging the death of their loved ones.Personally I do not have any problems with leaving muslims in their own countries to practice whatever they want unless it spills over with global ambitions.
The answer to the muslim issue is simple. Consequences for actions. Any other nation in the world, who was attacked abd confiscated land would get to keep the land taken in battle. Muslims have ridden and lied about Isreal for years, and America knowing nothing of Islam tqught me the Crusades were just Christians deciding to kill. They told me nothing of the attacks nor of Islam.

To my own fuault i knew nothing of islam, until i lerned of it. We are living in the same type of world today, the mainstream media covers muslim atrocity in the same way--there is no difference between Abortion clinic bombings that outright muslim terror. Islam still gets a pass.

I don't think its fair to judge ancient battles by the standards of modern warfare, and to call systematic killing and coordinated genocide as evidenced by the Turks, Germans and even the Japanese to chinese the same as ancient nation states warring without UN or any oversight.

Even islam "Claims" it put an end to infantcide when the koran came along, though there's no mention of it being wrong to kill your daughter in the Koran.

Nosuperstition
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by Nosuperstition »

glitch wrote:
Fernando wrote:
glitch wrote:1. What would you call a supposed God that asks for you to sacrifice a child? I'd call it a demon.
I'd call it a delusion.
You would, but can you explain why all these delusions happen but then all of a sudden the Hebrews come along and they are the only people to say don't kill babies?
Well in the discovery channel or the national geographic channel or in the animal planet they showed how grown up adult squirrels resort to cannibalism and eat babies of other squirrels to secure enough protein for survival.So why not call those humans or Gods who ask you to sacrifice other's children as squirrels?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by manfred »

Are you a squirrel?
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Nosuperstition
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Re: Can anyone rspond to any of this:

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:Are you a squirrel?
Of course not,however I will not demonise those who behave thus in periods of extreme famine.I can understand them.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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