Mughal the Infidel.

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
Nosuperstition
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Nosuperstition »

Martyrs as well as general public amongst the knowledgeable Muslims long for virgins in paradise.But when they divorce and remarry , muslims obviously are not getting virgins.So why is this craving for virgins on one hand and acceptance of a non-virgin bride on the other?If a non-virgin is a taboo or unworthy of craving,there should have been no re-marriage. Doesn't this trend appear contradictory and full of hypocrisy?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.
sum
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

I think that you are not properly addressing the matter of Muhammad`s words and deeds because they are a major stumbling block for you in your personal interpretation of the Koran. You can not divorce the words and deeds of Muhammad from the Koran. "Allah" advises Muhammad about various matters in the Koran but never admonishes Muhammad over his evil actions and evil exhortations.

"Allah" and Muhammad are most clearly one and the same. What is it that prevents you from seeing this? Are you frightened of going to hell when you die?

I think that the latent Islam that was indoctrinated into you has resurfaced which only goes to show how powerful this Islamic programming is.

sum
Mughal
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

You dispute the generally accepted claim that Muhammad was the perfect example for all mankind to follow because of the meaning of a word. This is entirely irrelevant as it is Muhammad`s words and deeds that define him. You have read Ali Sina`s challenge in which he lists the crimes that Muhannad committed. There is no condemnation in the Koran of any of these and so Muhammad clearly understood the guidance of Allah as to what is acceptable conduct for muslims to follow.

If Muhammad had transgressed then Allah, through the Koran, would have pointed out the errors of his ways - but there is no condemnation. In fact raiding, killing, looting and taking slaves and booty is "lawful and good". One can easily see that there is a remarkable similarity between the aggression in the ahadith and the Koran. Allah is simply Muhammad. It is so clear.

The only times that Muhammad was criticised by Allah was when he was reluctant to act out his lust for his adopted son`s wife and also when he was being given a hard time by his wives for lying to one wife so that he was able to have sex with his concubine.

Can`t you see, Mughal, how transparent the Koran is and how Muhammad created it for his own purposes?

sum
Dear sum, I do not dispute the claim that muhammad was a perfect example. What I dispute is sense the quran puts forth regarding place value of prophet-hood.

The quran based islam is not a religion but mainly a political and economic system and that is the main reason it is called AL-DEEN. Religion is merely a set of beliefs without any foundation. This is why religion is all about theology in sense of dogmas. If you read the Quran you can see it even from the existing translations that the quran is not a book that promotes make beliefs. Instead it demands proof of others repeatedly and offers proof itself.

Muhammad is not a ruler because he is a messenger of the actual ruler ie God.

If muhammad is not a ruler then he has no right to dictate program, constitution and laws from himself. It is because only ruler of this kingdom of universe has the right to rule this kingdom. This is why if anyone accepts or live by rule of any other then one is committing shirk and shirk is a terrible thing to do as far as the quran is concerned.

Therefore unless you understand the role of muhammad in the quranic context you cannot see how muhamamd is an example and why.

The role of muhammad is that of a divine messenger not of God.

The next thing that needs to be understood is how islamic legislation is derived. The Quran does not contain laws but it gives a framework through some commandment for some goals and that is how we get goals and guidelines from the quran.

The goals are unity based on peace and harmony for progress and prosperity of mankind. The guidelines in positive sense are freedom, justice, compassion and love etc for mankind when they deal with each other. The negative guidelines are no oppression and suppression, injustice or cruelty, animosity and hatred etc.

Within this framework legislature is free to make laws that are good for regulating the community life. You can read any translation and you will get such things in the quran. This framework is solid as a rock.

The basis for law formation are given in two kinds of verses in the quran. A) that tell people to have or do things and b)that tell people not to have or not to do things.

The verses that tell people to have or to do things do so on basis of benefit to community. The verses that tell people not to have or not to do things do so on basis of harm that will be caused to community.

The other thing the quran tells people to do is gather and consult with each other before deciding thing to do or not to do. So legislation in quranic context is not one man show. It is a community responsibility.

This is the quranic framework for making laws. Making laws is one thing but the applications of laws is another. That is a law only applies in a particular situation and so long as the situation returns so does the application of law.

Muhammad here does not have special status ie his word or deed does not become law. However being a divine messenger he shows by his example how laws should be legislated if a situation occurs that law needs to be formed. This is where laws formed according to instructions given by muhammad will serve as examples.

The laws formed in the time of the prophet are fine but only for the situations and circumstances for which they were formed and applied. If situations and circumstances have changed then new laws will need to be formed just like the prophet formed them in his time. Can you now see how muhammad is an example for the ummah and a perfect one?

Can you also see islam is not a religion but a proper socio-political system and socio-economic system. As I explained before, islam is all about proper management of human population and resources for growth and prosperity of humanity as a proper human community. After that mankind are told to explore the rest of universe as well to see creation of Allah. The Quran contains a lot of information that is not yet paid proper attention to because mullahs masked the actual,message by their translations.

This was islam throughout all ages from the very first exemplary proper human community that was brought about by prophet adam along with his supporters and the very last one that was brought about by muhammad along with his supporters. The quran talks about two different adams a)the human ancestor and b)the very first chief administrator of a proper human community.

regards and all the best.
frankie
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by frankie »

Mughal:
Everything you believe about the Quran, is built from a foundation of falsehood, once you grasp this fact, your rose tinted view of everything Islamic falls into a meaningless heap of nonsense, the evidence of which is shown in your every post.

If you are on the side of truth, then it should be of great concern to you, that this type of Forum was set up in the first instance. It regularly brings evidence to show without a shadow of a doubt, Islam is a false religion as its origins lie in Pre Islamic pagan Arabia.

All Islamic origins are nothing more than Mohammed's own invention, which he used to deceive gullible people like you, and many others.

Because Mohammed was a false prophet as well as a deluded Arabian pagan, he just used what was familiar to him, and encompassed it into this pseudo religious belief system, hell bent on world domination through violence.

It is strongly suggested you should be putting all your efforts into discovering the facts of this provable false faith, before you waste any more of your life jumping through hoops to justify a faith so damaging to humanity, that even those who think know their version of this faith is the true one, have to kill each other to prove it.
sum
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Your quote -
If muhammad is not a ruler then he has no right to dictate program, constitution and laws from himself. It is because only ruler of this kingdom of universe has the right to rule this kingdom.

But Muhammad did those things that you say that he should not yet there is no condemnation by Allah in the Koran. This is of fundamental importance.

Did Muhammad ever act against the guidance in the Koran?

sum
Mughal
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

Your quote -
If muhammad is not a ruler then he has no right to dictate program, constitution and laws from himself. It is because only ruler of this kingdom of universe has the right to rule this kingdom.

But Muhammad did those things that you say that he should not yet there is no condemnation by Allah in the Koran. This is of fundamental importance.

Did Muhammad ever act against the guidance in the Koran?

sum

Dear sum, it is made very clear in the quran that Allah does not like or never sides with those who inflict harm and destruction upon each other. This phrase is repeated in the quran many times over.

No messenger from Allah has ever done anything harmful or destructive to humanity because they are chosen to take forward the divine mission and I have explained in detail what divine mission is and how they took it forward.

I have explained fully the relationship between the sword and the quran. The quran controls the use of force ensuring that true followers of quranic guidance never misuse their power.

The fight was always between rulers, priests, money lenders and their supporters on one side and the rest of humanity on the other side. It is because rulers, priests and money lenders always used tricks, techniques and mechanism to entrap humanity which always led to unrest if you have not read history selectively.

This interaction between people will continue till quranic way of life is adopted by those whole heartedly who oppose it. Why that is going to be the case? It is because world has no better goal and guidelines than the ones stated in the quran for a proper way of life for a proper human community. This is how the quran proves that it is not word of a warlord.

Only an ignorant, illiterate, uneducated or unthinking person can disagree with actual message of the quran and time will keep on proving that.

The quran is not a book that can be dismissed because what it tells us makes perfect sense provided we have obtained the tools we need to understand the quran properly.

The real debate is going to be about what the real message of the quran is. When people will try to find out for themselves that will be the time people will become aware of it. So long as they do not the world will keep moving in the direction that it is, because that is the way people have adopted for themselves.

I am not in a position to debate the quran fully yet because I am busy with writing down my understanding of the quranic message but when I am through hopefully I will take some time out before I go over what I have written. It will hopefully help me understand the quran better before my revision.

Meanwhile people should see what I have put down about the quran. May be they should begin backwards because as I progress through the quran I am getting better and better at understanding the message of the quran. This is why revision will be necessary for me of my own work.

My approach to understanding the quran is not biased but based upon rules for understanding of a text in its own context primarily in light of self evident facts because they cannot be denied and secondarily in light of historical facts. So long as anyone will adopt this approach he will reach the very same understanding of the message as I do. So long as people will study the quran on basis of preconceived ideas they will keep running round in circles. I have been there that is why I know that. So if you really want to know the quran then follow this idea and take each surah one by one and look for a context in it and a common thread between all the surahs. Just quoting a verse from here and a verse from there without having proper context in mind is nothing others than being silly.

I still have at least 1 and a half parts still to complete out of 30, so I cannot participate much here yet till I have completed the interpretation of the complete quran. It is still going to be a problem debating the quran unless people go through what I have written to see if there are really any problems with it. That is what I am looking forward to ie a constructive and helpful criticism. Not a baseless and clueless criticism that is more than enough coming from mullahs who sell their own brands of religion. They hardly have ever thought about their own scriptures never mind the quran.

If mullahs are provably wrong about the quran today what gives anyone idea that they were not wrong in the past? After all they provided legitimacy for people to rule each other, they created religion out of quranic text and gave legal outlook to priesthood in islam when there is no priesthood in islam, they gave legitimacy to businesses for profit in the name of the quran when the quran is anti business for profit.

Hopefully when we will debate these things in full detail , you will find out yourselves that quran is not what mullahs have told us. However it is going to take time before I have time to participate but people can see what my understanding of the quranic text is on the link provided. It will be better if mods brought my work over to this site for ease of access.

http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPS ... pic=5206.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=15372" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


regards and all the best.
sum
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Your quote -
No messenger from Allah has ever done anything harmful or destructive to humanity because they are chosen to take forward the divine mission and I have explained in detail what divine mission is and how they took it forward.

I am sorry to say, Mughal, that you are still avoiding the very important matter of Muhammad`s unacceptable words and deeds. In fact, your last post does not even mention Muhammad nor does it answer my question as to whether Muhammad ever transgressed against the Koran.

If, as you claim, that "no messenger from Allah has ever done anything harmful or destructive to humanity" then you are also saying that Muhammad could not be a messenger of Allah. If Muhammad is not a messenger from Allah then Muhammad`s claim to receive revelations is completely false and so is Islam.

We can only conclude that the Koran is simply a personal construct of Muhammad. When he was in his final days he made no effort to preserve the Koran in writing so that he could confirm its accuracy. Why? Because it had served its purpose to enable Muhammad to obtain power, wealth and women and so was of no further use to him. He did not care what happened after his death including who should be the next caliph.

You can not divorce Muhammad from Islam.

sum
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skynightblaze
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by skynightblaze »

Mughal wrote:Only an ignorant, illiterate, uneducated or unthinking person can disagree with actual message of the quran and time will keep on proving that.
I want to ask you a serious question. Do you really believe in what you write or are you posting just for the sake of posting something? According to you none other than yourself has understood the correct message of quran for 1400 long years. The implication of this statement is that till date there has not been a single person on earth who is literate, educated or thoughtful . That is an absolutely ridiculous claim. I hope you can see what you are blabbering here.
Mughal wrote: No messenger from Allah has ever done anything harmful or destructive to humanity because they are chosen to take forward the divine mission and I have explained in detail what divine mission is and how they took it forward.
As pointed out by Sum, using your own logic we can conclude that muhammad was not a divine messenger because he didn't even take the initiative to collect quran into one single copy so that his followers would not be required to dispute and sort it for themselves about what was revealed to Muhammad. Quran was produced from men's memory and that too highly unreliable ones. In short muhammad did nothing to carry forward the divine mission. Infact he made a complete mess of the message so muhammad cannot be the messenger of God.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
yeezevee
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by yeezevee »

skynightblaze wrote:
Mughal wrote:Only an ignorant, illiterate, uneducated or unthinking person can disagree with actual message of the quran and time will keep on proving that.
As pointed out by Sum, using your own logic we can conclude that muhammad was not a divine messenger because he didn't even take the initiative to collect quran into one single copy so that his followers would not be required to dispute and sort it for themselves about what was revealed to Muhammad. Quran was produced from men's memory and that too highly unreliable ones. In short muhammad did nothing to carry forward the divine mission.
well SKB Mughal has a point., Muhammad was a busy man., 1st he was illiterate and 2nd he didn't had time to do all this silly work of collecting all that nonsense he said in trance and putting it as book.,
Infact he made a complete mess of the message so muhammad cannot be the messenger of God.
No he didn't make mess of his message., Muhammad was quite clear in what he wanted to do., but People after his death made a mess of everything. But I have a problem SKB I tried to click
Mughal wrote:
................
http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPS ... pic=5206.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=15372" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
regards and all the best.
that jangforum and that put my computer to sleep.. this is what happened
Threat: Exploit Blackhat SEO type 1703
object name: www.jangforum.net/index.php?
and some yada..yada..
I wonder whether any one can test that? was it for me only or it is for every one who visits that forum . I know they have IP numbers of some of my.com connections. If you want to test that link MAKE SURE THAT SOME GOOD ANTIVIRUS program running on your computers
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manfred
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by manfred »

Hi,

I can open that jangforum thing no trouble. Maybe you caught something nasty on your computer that raised its head just at that moment? Run a check maybe...
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
yeezevee
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by yeezevee »

manfred wrote:Hi,

I can open that jangforum thing no trouble. Maybe you caught something nasty on your computer that raised its head just at that moment? Run a check maybe...
Thank you for that test manfred ...

with best wishes and happy new year
yeezevee
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manfred
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by manfred »

And to you too!
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
yeezevee
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by yeezevee »

Hello Mughal good to see you back
Mughal to sum wrote:
I have explained fully the relationship between the sword and the quran. The quran controls the use of force ensuring that true followers of quranic guidance never misuse their power.
Well then Quran failed miserably in collecting true followers and I guess what Islam collected since Quran became book is only False followers. Not even a single guy was/is a true followers. Is that the gist of your post Mughal ?

Anyways dear Mughal I want to you read this and tell me how to educate such a person about good thing in Islam and how to get that person back in to Islamic fold?
Why I left Islam

There are many reasons to leave a religion.

There are many reasons to disbelieve in gods. Doing either doesn't necessarily mean one will jump straight into bed with a replacement. It can also be liberating life experience. It doesn't have to leave a religion shaped hole that needs filling. It can set you free to just explore yourself and the universe and take it as it comes. To expand and breathe life unchained.

Some people don't even have any kind of emotional attachments to religion, instead having practical or social attachments. Any of these kinds of attachments can be replaced. But you're not going to put much thought into finding a replacement if they are still holding your attention.

Islam never really held my attention.

I always found myself out of synch with it. Praying was boring, fasting was uncomfortable, the structured rule set was frustrating and claustrophobic, often ridiculously arbitrary.

When I asked questions, my curiosity was met with trite answers that left me unsatisfied, left me wanting, left me cold. Programmed platitudes, clichés and canards that rang insincere and hollow to me. And that was on a good day when the answers were somewhat constructive.

It was more often than not a harsh, impatient and stifling condemnation of the mere idea of questioning such things.

The divine directives just didn't sit right with me either. I saw the abuses and injustices that were a manifest result of them, not only to me but to others, and this vexed me. Like a splinter in my brain.

All this was compounded by the overbearing masculinity of Islam. This is a man's religion. This last point troubled my conscience perhaps most of all. Long before I actually did any reading or investigation into the rationale of how things came to be this way for me.

I wouldn't describe my deconversion as an emotional expulsion of religion. I think it was a practical, sensual thing. Islam smelled like baloney and the trail of evidence pointed away from Islam. You start doubting one thing and it starts a chain reaction. It's like a game of Jenga – you start removing blocks and eventually the little tower becomes so unstable that it collapses. I was an unbeliever even before I realised what one was, simply by ongoing practical deduction. But there was no "Eureka!" moment. There was no BOOM! I am an Atheist! It was a complete non-event – the end of an organic, gradual process. The result of largely an unconscious effort. A by-product of being a student of life. Of being curious. Of being unwilling to stop thinking.

Some people are just not born to be Muslim. Some people have a wilder lust for the world and an animal 'fear of the trap' that makes resistance to systems of life like Islam part of their very being. And that's perhaps more typical of adolescence than adulthood. Maybe I got out just in time, before I made a terrible compromise to my existence. I can't really speak for emotional attachments in this case, but I can maybe explain why Islam is not even remotely attractive to me except maybe as a chew toy when I’m bored.

First, the theological claims of Islam have been proven to be false again and again by people much more informed and eloquent than me. Simply by its own internal inconsistencies and fallacies as a work of literature, the Quran is self-refuting. Poorly written, poorly structured, profoundly lacking in original insight and depth, contradictory to the point of needing its own ad hoc system of abrogation, it is a featherweight compared to equivalent works in other traditions. Keep in mind that the Quran is allegedly the unaltered words of a god, verbatim. So sure are Muslims of this that they have fetishised the Quran to the point of becoming a self-parody. To the point of having an existential crisis (and sometimes even to the point of violence) if it is defaced or disrespected.

The Quran only makes matters worse for itself by being such an arrogant work. Making bold claims of perfection, challenging its reader to find better; "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." The human authors of Islam painted themselves into a corner by proclaiming it to be no less than the Final Testament from the God of Abraham, and further, that Mohammed was the seal prophet, appointed to confirm, correct, complete and give closure to the prophesies that came before. It's an incredibly conceited and short-sighted thing to do, but quite understandable when you take into account the apocalyptic doomsayer culture it was born from, authored by those who thought the world would end ages ago, perhaps even in their own lifetime. And of course, it didn't end. And so, the supposed measure of divine wisdom revealed in the Quran uncannily resembles the superstitious and ignorant views of the men of that period, frozen in time.

The authors of Islam have essentially tied their own hands and, by extension, the hands of future Muslims – trapping them in a rigid narrative prison with only limited source material to draw upon. This is the price to pay for writing the final words of God in the dark ages. Slim pickings indeed.

Hence why so many Muslim careers have been made on spin and mitigation, bogus philosophy and pseudoscience, trying to find or manufacture hidden meaning behind exhausted and defunct lines of text that have simply not aged well, trying to exploit the wiggle room in its more ambiguous verses. We end up with the so-called scientific miracles of the Quran, various strained numerology attempts and desperate pattern seeking. It's all so forced and contrived.

A sad and pitiful attempt to keep the Quran relevant in a world that's already moved on.

Maybe millennia ago when books were simply not available the Quran might have stood out as the most profound and pertinent thing heard in that region, but what are people's excuses these days? You can walk into any library or bookshop and take a random book off of the shelf and prove this point: the Quran has not stood the test of time. It has been outshined, outclassed, outmatched by superior written works. Superseded and even preceded by great poets and orators who have already said any of its meaningful content a thousand times in a thousand ways, and conveyed it more eloquently and succinctly.

In the grander scope of the world stage, the Quran relies almost entirely on its exotic and foreign flavour to lend it any mysterious power. And this exotic allure has been taken hostage by Muslims. God, apparently, only speaks in Classical Arabic now. The Quran cannot be translated. It is no longer the Quran once translated.

The Message for all people and for all time, the perfect and Final Testament of God, that shines clear and evidently true to all, unaltered since its original revelation, on which the fate of our immortal souls rest upon, can only ever be understood in an ancient Middle-Eastern regional dialect. This is layer upon layer of absurdity.

What exactly is the Message? What could be so important that the Grand Architect of the Universe took time out of its schedule to communicate with humanity for the very last time? What's all the boasting about?

Never before has one boasted so much about so little.

A mediocre oral tradition, at best, which pertains only to a small province of a single planet over a narrow span of time, that cannot even remain relevant in that short timespan without abrogating itself.

Annals of petty local feuds, regional drama, and the defunct tribal taboos of an ignorant culture that thought the earth was flat. Randomly interspersed with reworked myths. Doubling as an instruction manual for holy war and a constitution for the mundane micro-management of a growing empire and future conquest. Marketed primarily to secure the interest and loyalty of fighting men, wherein it divides spoils of war in great detail, blesses the taking of sex slaves, screws women over for eternity, ultimately promising a paradise men's club for the obedient and diligent, tempting them with superficial material prizes and wealth and, of course, puts a little extra aside for the main player, Mohammed.

Now, I love a good myth. A good saga. Larger than life characters, heroes and villains, champions and monsters, love, honour, bravery, tragedy, deceit, epic swashbuckling human drama. Good old fashioned storytelling really lights me up. In Islam, mythology is a cheap knock off. What the authors of the Quran have managed to do, in the process of plagiarising and cannibalising every tradition that came before, is to ruin great myths. And its biggest crime is surgically removing any modicum of humour from them. Sterilising them to fit in with The Plan.

It has a complete inability to laugh at itself. Islam is where great myths go to die. It is a graveyard of broken myths. One seeking true adventure would do well to follow the trail of breadcrumbs back to the originals it has stolen from. See for yourself the hatchet job those ham-fisted bastards did. This plagiarising is common to its sibling Judeo-Christian religions too. But at least the Christian mythology has the trippy, malaria-fever odyssey of the Book of Revelation. And the Gospel According to John (KJV) kinda reads like a fireside story if you squint your eyes a bit.

What about philosophy in the Quran? Here is what I can write about the philosophy in the Quran: Nothing. There's nowhere to start. Islam is philosophically sterile. It's almost as though philosophy didn't even exist as a great tradition hundreds of years earlier, almost like Islam evolved in a philosophical vacuum. The measure of its failings is revealed when any analysis of the Quran is cross referenced with superior works, some even older. Side by side, we see a child's finger painting next to the Mona Lisa. It's almost funny. What a pathetic, infantile stab in the dark at philosophy Islam offers us. What kind of unfortunate and simplistic proto-mind can be satisfied by it? What appetite do I have that otherwise intelligent and respectable Muslims do not? It is a mystery to me. I am literally baffled at the hold these desert fairy tales have over people to this day. How amazing it would be if something so vapid and mundane would placate my wondering mind.

As a system of life Islam takes so much from you. It takes from you and gives back nothing you can't drink elsewhere from cleaner streams. You're diving for pearls in poisoned waters. It traps Muslims in a rigid spiritual prison.

A good, subservient, observant Muslim has her or his spiritual journey restricted by the ruleset of Islam. It is not only restricted, but ruthlessly policed by an all seeing eye. There is the overbearing knowledge that you will be judged according to a specific and set standard. You are held back. You are compelled in some cases to fight against your own good conscience, do things no good person should do, for no other reason than: it says so in a book I think is awesome. Like the wise man Jason Bourne once said, "Do you even know why you're supposed to kill me? Look at what they make you give."

As an institution, Islam is systematically responsible for some of the worst human rights violations in the world. It is no coincidence. These things don't just happen to be occurring in Muslim nations. These are the logical conclusions of the directives of Islam, the divine will of a fantasy war god that ancient clerics and superstitious folk decided to name "Allah."

These things are the cornerstones of its tradition: subdue, suppress, assert, aggress, spread, dehumanise opposition, demonise dissent, sustained by the unwavering and chauvinistic faith in the ascendancy and supremacy of a chosen people. And the sum of all this is vomited out into the world as a political and social movement that opposes democracy and liberal, free-thinking and freedom of expression, with the sole aim of replacing it with an unquestioned and unchallenged totalitarian ideology. This is something I would not want to believe in, support, or swear allegiance to, even if it were miraculously and irrefutably revealed to be of divine behest. Even if Allah himself descended from his throne and wrote proof of his existence across the sky, I'd distance myself from the ponzi scheme as a matter of principle.

I honestly don't think I ever did manage to rationalise the immorality in the Quran. As soon as I actually found out about Mohammed and his sleazy, violent, entitled and indulgent life, the spell was broken. Utterly and irreparably. How anyone with a working conscience, a love of humanity and want for equality and respect can read about the life of Mohammed and remain impressed – or worse, in full awe of the man – is a mystery to me. Especially as a woman. The more I learned about the Prophet, the more I found him repulsive even for a man of his time. That, and reading the Quran itself. So many obscene verses and unjustifiable commands that it's impossible to remain enchanted once seen. Magnified a thousand times in the context of an abusive environment, experiencing first-hand the fruits of that toxic manual. I don't think it ever occurred to me to rationalise it, only to dream harder, make plans for my own destiny and escape that physical and emotional prison.

I flirted with Islam again when I was a little older. With the mindset that, while disgusting and polluted and anathema to real humanity, perhaps there is some deeper truth missed by the misogynist, the supremacist, the predator, the charlatan, who use that book to such great effect. This was at a point when I seriously needed spiritual and moral guidance. But there was none to be found in Islam. Spiritual guidance in Islam is only to be found in those unique individual Muslims who have a very generous and selective interpretation of its traditions. Ones who put being a good person first before being a good Muslim. Good despite Islam, not because of it.

So ultimately, I was faced with that choice of being a good person or being a good Muslim. A human being cannot be both in my eyes. These two things are at opposite ends of the scale for me.

To be an obedient, observant Muslim, you must sacrifice your humanity. You must surrender to a divine will, swear honest fealty to it, without doubt, without questioning. To be a good person you must not only renounce many of the central tenets of Islam, but you must also openly oppose them, wherever they manifest in the world. Then, and only then, can you claim to be a good human with me.

Or, you can compromise – live some kind of half-life, a contradictory creature, torn between faith and your own conscience, drifting this way and that amid your own confused and unbalanced inner equilibrium, fooling yourself that you are free, and valued, and precious to non-existent higher power.

You can pretend that you love an unlovable god, pretend that such a hateful god could ever love you, try to salvage some validation and purpose, some salvation from a book that gives you a little and then takes a lot more. All the time harbouring a self-loathing, a deep rooted knowledge that you are a slave to that same higher power, with your mind shackled and your heart held back from true human interaction, under his ever-present gaze and scrutiny.

That's no life for me. That isn't living.

The more I pulled away from that hideous Abrahamic concept of a supreme god, the more alive and vital I was in this gorgeous universe. I was free to be me, the person inside, perfect with all my flaws, comfortable in my own skin, no longer a mind-slave to the dark age ideologies imagined up by sadistic and insane monsters of history, no longer led along by the nose like cattle, no longer living according to the dogma spelled out by long-dead fools whose ideas belong in the graveyard of failed human endeavours, throwbacks to the infancy of our species. The umbilical cord that holds back the ascendancy and mastery of our own spirits and minds must be cut. We've crawled along on our belly for too long under religion. We should be walking on our own by now, running by now. We could even be flying by now.

There are better role models in this beautiful world than the so-called Prophet. There are better contributions to the knowledge of the world than the cancerous, poisoned chalice known as the Quran. There is better wisdom out there to find, to add to your own spiritual alchemy, better philosophies, better revelations, better discoveries, better poetic and artistic expression, better hopes and dreams to be had, better love and passions, a much richer, fuller existence – all eclipsed while you are under the black cloud of Islam. Better religions, even.

Everything good that is in me is from elsewhere.

There were times when I almost hated Islam for the life it denied me for so long, never knowing my potential as a member of the human race. I know that potential now. I can taste it, feel it, appreciate it like never before. I penetrated that black cloud like the chick breaking out of the egg. It was like opening my eyes for the first time to a whole new alphabet of feeling and emotion. Like seeing in colour after a lifetime of black and white.

I reject Islam wholeheartedly. I made my choice. I chose to try and be a good person instead of trying to be a good Muslim. The main symptom of doing so was feeling the weight lift off as each and every facet of Islam fell away from me. I have learned I no longer have to surrender my body, mind and soul to the god of the Prophet's desires, dreams and delusions, and I have realised that I wont be punished for made-up crimes in an imaginary afterlife if I choose not to surrender.

I'll never go back to Islam. Never. I would be a fool to even entertain the idea. I've shed my skin already. My journey has only just begun, my journey of life, with new blood running through me, new verve, new growth, new days, and new hope for the first time – true, tangible hope and possibilities. And with Islam in my rear-view mirror, I have no shame for who I am. No pity for myself, no more fears, no more tears and no regrets. Tried, tested, built to last. The sum of my parts.

This journey of life I am forever grateful for and I can't begin to describe how excited I am. I can only show those close to me, those making the journey with me. And to those who accept me for who I am and what I am, I will share myself; naked, unashamed, with arms wide open.
Where did that person go wrong Mughal? I know one time you were in the same boat..
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skynightblaze
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by skynightblaze »

Yeezevee wrote:well SKB Mughal has a point., Muhammad was a busy man., 1st he was illiterate and 2nd he didn't had time to do all this silly work of collecting all that nonsense he said in trance and putting it as book.,
Ass Salam brother you have opened my eyes! Perhaps satan had urinated in my ears and brain... How can i forget that the prophet had to satisfy 9 wives in one night and sometimes in the day too.. I see prophet was a low budget porn star of his time :lol: so indeed he must be busy. You see the concept of porn was first introduced to the world by prophet muhammad and after knowing his sexual escapades people got the idea of viagra!. At other times these infidels always attacked the prophet because they were jealous about islam and his innocent face .. The prophet had to act in self defense and hence no time for book!
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
yeezevee
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by yeezevee »

skynightblaze wrote:
Yeezevee wrote:well SKB Mughal has a point., Muhammad was a busy man., 1st he was illiterate and 2nd he didn't had time to do all this silly work of collecting all that nonsense he said in trance and putting it as book.,

.............. You see the concept of porn was first introduced to the world by prophet muhammad ........

dear SKB., I am sorry to say what you wrote there is absolute rubbish ., This Porno business was there since the beginning of the time. You can see that through out the biological evolution in every species and off course it transmitted to human race. So please don't blame Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) for that neither you should give credit to him for that porno business.

What you can say or may be you can give credit to Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) is "The concept porn/harem was first introduced to ISLAM/MUSLIMS by prophet Muhammad"That is a true statement.

Now with that let me give you this link "The Ottoman harem by Burak Sansal(Turkey)" to read..

Image Image Image

Good life. ..god life Allahhooo Akabr..

But that was needed because men died in Islamic wars for the sake of allah and women needed support., the best way to give support to them is open a Harem..



Great that is where one will find allah..

with best wishes and happy new year
yeezevee
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skynightblaze
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by skynightblaze »

Yeezevee wrote:dear SKB., I am sorry to say what you wrote there is absolute rubbish
It was written to be that way. I am hoping that Mughal has something to cheer for :wink2: . He can brag about Muhammad's sexual prowess and no kafir can deny it.

Now Imagine if Muhammad took viagra... My guess is he would not even spare the non living objects. Anything that has cavity would do like hollows of trees, a hole in the wall and what not. :*)

On a serious note, it is sad to see Mughal submit to a lowly creature such as Muhammad . I have read a few posts of Mughal in the past and I was not expecting this kind of change in him.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
yeezevee
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by yeezevee »

skynightblaze wrote: ..............On a serious note, it is sad to see Mughal submit to a lowly creature such as Muhammad . I have read a few posts of Mughal in the past and I was not expecting this kind of change in him.
I am not sure Mughal is submitting to Muhammad. But what he seems to be doing is, he is trying to Make some sort of "Communist Manifesto " out of Quran. and on the way he is trying to make Mao or Marx out of that 7th century Muhammad.

And let me help Mughal with this book That Atlas of Quran_An Authentic Collection of the Qur'anic Information with Maps, Tables and Pictures., May be some times in near future Mughal may write a book like that guy Muzaffar Iqbāl

Last edited by yeezevee on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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manfred
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by manfred »

Well, even with best efforts he would turn out looking more like Stalin...
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
yeezevee
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by yeezevee »

manfred wrote:Well, even with best efforts he would turn out looking more like Stalin...
but where are the 13 wives and another 13 concubines of Stalin? ...lol...
Mughal
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Mughal »

Dear friends, you have asked me many questions so far but can I expect a good answer from you people about a verses in the quran? Can you find me a person who could explain verse 75/2 in the proper quranic context?

In other words I am looking for an explanation from my scholarly friends here about a couple of words ie AL-NAFS and AL-LAWWAAMAH.

I am starting my work on this surah now and can use all the help I can get.My work on 1-74 surahs you will find on following link.
http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPS ... pic=5206.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


thanks in advance and all the best.
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