Mughal the Infidel.

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
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sum
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Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

The following is a post by Mughal when he was an Infidel.

http://www.the-brights.net/forums/forum ... =1577&st=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mughal
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Posted 08 March 2004 - 06:04 AM

Dear friends,

Thank you very much for your very kind and encouraging responses.

Here is how I think the Islamic sources developed or evolved with time. To begin with it is important to realise that Muslims claim that Islam is a comprehensive way of life for everyone and for all times and places from Allah the almighty. The implication of such a claim is that it has to have answers to all questions as regarding daily life of anyone and everyone, anywhere and everywhere for all times. The question is, does it or did it ever? My answer is no, it was never the case.

In fact such a claim is outrageous come to think of it, because the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If Allah was the true God and that he had guided Muslims with such comprehensive guidance as Muslims claim, they ought to be leaders of the world in all good things in life, had they followed that guidance, would they not? We non-Muslims would have been left behind by Muslims in progress and prosperity by miles mystified by their success comparing to our human ignorance and failure being unaware of such a good teaching. That would have been the case because Muslims would have been educated by their Allah right from the day they were born with knowledge that was perfect from the perfect one himself.

Mind you Muslims teach their children Islam as soon as they are born. I am not joking, ask any Muslim what happens to their newborns? You will be told that Allah is introduced to the newborn straightaway by means of Adhaan=the Muslim call for prayer in his/her ears. Then there is circumcision practice and the like and so indoctrination begins. When a child is able to talk, the child is taught basic religion by parents and as one grows one is sent to local masjid=mosque and later to local madraasa= religious school or even daral aloom=religious university. Thus a Muslim ends up a walking robot having no mind of its own.

Despite all this carry on, what do you witness the Muslim situation is in the world? Is it that Muslims are leading the world in progress or are they the obstacle in the way of progress and prosperity? The question is, what do Muslims learn and teach in their religious institutions? They learn the books I have mentioned above eg The Quran, The Hadith, The Fiqh, The Quranic tafaseer=interpretations, The Sirah, the Sharah=interpretation of Hadith, The Tareekh=history, kitaab al aqaaid=the book that define Islamic creed. Together these subjects are known as dars al nizaami or the Islamic madrassa curriculum. Word madraasa simply means a place wherein people are taught lessons eg a school. By the way, the fundamental Islamic literature is available online if anyone wishes to be as successful as Muslims are.

Islamic literature is by no means a state secret any more. Perhaps it was when Mullahs/Ulema=Muslim scholars of Islamic religious teachings were fully in-charge of things. Remember, Muslims only have the Quranic text that was authorized by the then Islamic establishment that was headed by the 3rd Caliph of Islam after Muhammad. His name was Uthman. I will be getting into all this nitty gritty in time but just now I wish to inform the reader in general as regard how Islam came to be as we see it and what Muslims claim Islam to be. The idea is to see if Muslim claims make any sense in the light of their religious texts.

Here I have raised the question as regard comprehensiveness of Islam as a God appointed perfect way of life. I am trying to help people become aware of the fact that such a claim by Muslims is absurd because it makes no sense whatsoever. Nonetheless to promote their this make belief, Muslims have been doing all they can and have been successful in gaining many converts even in Europe and America. They are very proud to present these people as mark of their success and as proof of truth of their faith, Islam. I on the other hand am trying to understand, what went wrong that these people converted to Islam the while people like myself have left Islam after realizing the truth about Islam. To answer the question I have raised above, one has to look at how Islam evolved. The idea is that if Islam was truly revealed by a perfect God, it ought to be perfect right from the day one needing no further improvements. Because Islam has been improved upon on daily basis right from the days of the prophet, gives evidence to the suspicion that Islam was never revealed by any God whatsoever but was created by people themselves. This is not just my claim, one has to examine the Islamic claims and the related source materials.

According to my understanding of the Islamic source material, it does not have anything comprehensive in it never mind everything for all and forever. As an ideology, Islam has been improved upon. As a political, social, cultural or economic system, structure or practice Islam has been improved upon, so when was Islam perfect, complete or comprehensive for all times to come? The very basic source of Islam is the Quran. The question is, is the Quran complete, perfect and comprehensive about anything even today? Please examine the Quran and see what you yourself find. The Quranic text we have today, is the one that was authorized by the then 3rd Caliph of Islam, who burned all the existing copies of the Quran that differed with his version of the Quranic text. Does that sound anything like perfect revelation preserved perfecly? By the way, this is not my claim but what is clearly stated in Islamic sources that were prepared by Muslims themselves. I am saying this just in case you think, well, enemies of Islam have to say such bad things about Islam, do they not? It took Allah 23 years to complete the revelation of the Quran to the prophet yet it had to be sorted out by Uthman, can you imagine the incompetence of Allah the almighty and competence of Uthman an ordinary human being?

The 2nd point is that if The Quran was sufficient as divine guidance, why there was developed the literature called Hadith? Hadith is another most fundamental source of Islamic faith 2nd only to the Quran. The Hadith collections were written down more than a couple of centuries after the death of the prophet. Not only that but people who collected these reports rejected many folds more than they accepted. So much for the claim that islam is a perfect religion. So one can see that Islamic sources have a history and if they have a history that only shows their gradual development with time and not a sudden revelation by some God.

The question is, why these fundamental sources were developed this way if they were allegedly revealed word of God? This question becomes yet more forceful if looked at in context of another Muslim claim, which is that Allah created Adam and Eve and to Adam he revealed the very first message for guidance and that since then Allah never left people without his perfect guidance etc etc etc … Imagine a people being taught perfect knowledge right from the day one and yet they do not learn, progress or prosper even as good as their enemies? Does that make any sense to anyone? Are we human really like that, that we never learn no matter how hard someone tries to teach us the good thing about life? Are we so uninterested in knowing about the world in which we are born and die? Do we never raise questions as to where did all this come from? Are such religious claims then true?

The fact is, we spend billions of dollars on education, research and exploration and that we are very curious about our universe. So the religious claims about humans as totally ignorant and evil are not true, for we ourselves and our actions contradict them. We are always busy trying to find better and better ways of doing better and better things to minimize pain and suffering in our world and to get rid of death and destruction that animals inflict on each other, including humans as is obvious if we realize things about our food chain and warfare between ourselves. Had we been guided through perfect guidance, it would not have taken us so many generation to be where we are today in respect of our development and progress. The time we took to be where we are today shows that we never had any message from any God to guide us rather we have been learning from our own mistakes and taking corrective measures if we realized that we were doing something wrong or in a wrong sort of way.

So in the light of facts such as I have mentioned here, Islam being the comprehensive way of life from Allah is a false claim by Muslims. Islam was not revealed by any God but was developed by people themselves as the evidence clearly suggests if we study Islamic sources which show gradual development of this religion by humans themselves.

In time of Muhammad, he being the chief himself and present amongst people, decided all matters as he went along and thought fit attributing them to his imaginary Allah as a messenger of this Allah. There was therefore no need for any other source than the alleged divine revelation to himself ie The Quran. However, after the death of Muhammad, when such problem arose which were not addressed by Muhammad as the Quran due to later developments, need arose for people to have another source besides the Quran to answer their questions to maintain the false claim that Islam is a comprehensive way of life and so has all the answers to all questions for everyone, therefore the idea of Hadith was developed. Due to yet further developments when even Hadith failed to address problems that arose due to changing nature of our world and the circumstances of Muslims therein, there arose need for yet another sources ie Fiqh.

At each step because measures were taken by ordinary people after the prophet, they decided things differently and that resulted into permanent divides between Muslims in form of sectarianism that continues to date. Thus one can see how Islam turned out to be what we see today ie a gradually developed religion that was never comprehensive in any way even during the time of the prophet himself. In fact, let us look at our own setup as regard education. When it comes to educating our kids in our schools, we try to teach them all they need to know (provided we know it ourselves) but let them learn at their own pace. However, Islam never had comprehensive teaching nor people ever learned it at once. This is why Muslims always fought over what Islam exactly is and the fighting continues, such comprehensive is Islam as a religion. Do I need say more?

Please note that my idea is to help people know what Islamic sources are, where to find them online and how to look at them to know what Islam really is and what Muslims really are. Once we are armed with such knowledge, we are then in a better position to examine Islam ourselves as well as help our other (Muslim and non-Muslim) friends to know Islam for what it really is and so that they can then make up their own minds about it properly. Moreover it would help us discuss Islam methodically.

Islamic sources are of such importance to Muslims that many of those who claim to believe in them would not hesitate killing/dying for them. Islam is a very dangerous cult or a peaceful religion, would only become obvious once we look at it in a few different ways. The most important is the Muslim belief that the Quran is the perfect divine revelation that has been preserved perfectly and we have the task of proving otherwise despite the fact that Muslims have failed to prove what they claim about the Quran. Thank you once again for your kindness and I hope to say more on the topic later.

Regards and


I hope that Mughal has repented and Allah is all compassionate and merciful after all.

sum

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Any comment?

When did your views change and what caused them to change?

sum

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SAM
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by SAM »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

Any comment?

When did your views change and what caused them to change?

sum
He got disturbing thoughts enter in his mind :)
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by manfred »

He got disturbing thoughts enter in his mind
Sure Sam, the idea that he and only he "understands" the Qur'an, for example. In fact reading his more recent text it appears, sadly, that he has become somewhat unhinged...

He also seems to be quite unable to respond to questions sensibly, even simple ones. He writes endless waffle, often contradicting himself, and nothing seems to help him see some sense.

I wish I could help him. What do you thing can we do for him?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
He got disturbing thoughts enter in his mind
Sure Sam, the idea that he and only he "understands" the Qur'an, for example. In fact reading his more recent text it appears, sadly, that he has become somewhat unhinged...

He also seems to be quite unable to respond to questions sensibly, even simple ones. He writes endless waffle, often contradicting himself, and nothing seems to help him see some sense.

I wish I could help him. What do you thing can we do for him?
It is about self-examination.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

sum
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

I am disappointed that Mughal has ignored this thread as I am most interested in knowing what caused the change back to Allah and the Koran. It is also interesting that Mughal avoids the subject of Muhammad whenever possible. I am curious to know why.

Please tell us, Mughal.

sum

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by ringmaster »

sum wrote:.......................................It is also interesting that Mughal avoids the subject of Muhammad whenever possible. I am curious to know why.

.........................
Simple.

Mughal is a troll.
The prophet of Islam was nothing more than a common criminal.

Please tell me if this is accurate:

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.”
~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by iffo »

SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:
He got disturbing thoughts enter in his mind
Sure Sam, the idea that he and only he "understands" the Qur'an, for example. In fact reading his more recent text it appears, sadly, that he has become somewhat unhinged...

He also seems to be quite unable to respond to questions sensibly, even simple ones. He writes endless waffle, often contradicting himself, and nothing seems to help him see some sense.

I wish I could help him. What do you thing can we do for him?
It is about self-examination.
SAM you still follow this stupid religion ?..... come on

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by SAM »

iffo wrote: SAM you still follow this stupid religion ?..... come on
You are bigotry and hatred to treat all your own loving families, relatives, friends around you who are devout Muslims as either stupidity, ignorant or delusional etc

And here's the worst part that you are freakin' stupid than those Islam haters here :lol:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

Mughal
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Mughal »

brother sum, this thread proves that I do not accept anything without understanding it. At that time mullahs' islam did not make any sense to me and it still does not. However, at that time I did not know things that I know today. otherwise my approach to things would have been same as today. I was not born knowing all like you to remain fixed in state of mind for good.

The change was due to giving up make beliefs and looking for solid ground and I think I found it. In islam quran is foundation not the divine messenger. Divine messenger himself stands on the foundation provided to him by the quran ie he is not a separate authority on his own.

regards and all the best.

See my work on the quran on http://www.jangforum.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?action=forum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One can see examples of my work on the quran HERE and HERE

My work can be found by clicking HERE then clicking on discover islam.
Last edited by Mughal on Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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enceladus
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by enceladus »

SAM wrote:
iffo wrote: SAM you still follow this stupid religion ?..... come on
You are bigotry and hatred to treat all your own loving families, relatives, friends around you who are devout Muslims as either stupidity, ignorant or delusional etc

And here's the worst part that you are freakin' stupid than those Islam haters here :lol:
I'll defend iffo - I beg to differ.....

One can have all the love in the world and yet still be mistaken and wrong on something.
That is the case with iffo's still-Muslim relatives and friends.
You can believe that your family and friends are mistaken and yet it is still possible to love them.
I very much doubt that it is possible for a Muslim to do the reverse - to love someone who has left Islam.

And no - iffo is most certainly not stupid. It takes an enormous amount of courage and determination to critically look at what you've believed in for all your life and then come to the decision that the cult and its beliefs is nonsense.

When I look at those who have left Islam - both the famous and the not-famous - they have two things in common. Their courage and their intelligence.
- enceladus

sum
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Are your views on the "true" Islam influenced in any way by the Muhammad`s words and deeds as I understand that he was the perfect example for mankind to follow?

sum

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

Will you be telling me if your views on Islam are influenced in any way by Muhammad`s words and deeds?

sum

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

Will you be telling me if your views on Islam are influenced in any way by Muhammad`s words and deeds?

sum
Dear sum, I have explained what word sunnah means but unfortunately my posts were removed by admin and mods on this site. This makes this site a one sided view point.

I have very limited time while I am busy with my work on quran to write long posts for explaining things.

Muslims as well as nonmuslim have very wrong idea about sunnah of the prophet.

http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPS ... pic=5206.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


regards and all the best.

sum
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

In your articles you make the assumptions that the Koran is a divine book from a divine being. You also make the assumption that Muhammad was a divine messenger. There is absolutely no evidence to support either assumption.

In your understanding of Islam would you agree that Islam creates an unequal society?

sum

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

In your articles you make the assumptions that the Koran is a divine book from a divine being. You also make the assumption that Muhammad was a divine messenger. There is absolutely no evidence to support either assumption.

In your understanding of Islam would you agree that Islam creates an unequal society?

sum
Dear brother sum, I am making assumptions after studying the quran to some degree which is not complete yet. There is no way anyone could ever link the immaterial being ie God with material being ie universe as a concrete reality, however it is possible to explain the link rationally through indirect evidence.

Here is how the quran does it. The quran tells us that if the quran was not from God then as a work of human beings it would have contained many contradictions because people do not have enough knowledge to talk about things the quran talks about without ending up in clear-cut or unjustifiable contradictions.

One may say well even if there is no contradiction yet it does not prove the quran is word of Allah. True, but the quran then goes on to say that in this universe there is nothing as intelligent as human beings and among human beings there is not an intelligent human being whom the quran will fail to humble. So according to the quran there is nothing between man and God. If man is not creator of the quran then therefore it is from God. Not from any flying tea pot. It is because to whatever anyone attributes any scripture that being has to be proven intelligent enough to be as good as God or as good as the author of the quran.

You can try and write a book and say it was revealed by a unicorn, fine. But question is is unicorn intelligent enough to explain the origin, purpose and working of the universe the way the quran does? Has any book in the world done that as it is done in the quran?



Coming to way of life based upon the quran, it opposes ruling of people by people be on basis of political tricks and mechanisms, religious tricks and mechanisms or economic tricks and mechanisms.

The quran does not allow anything between people that opens way to use and abuse of some people by others. This is why world is anti quran based islam. To mask the quranic concept rulers, mullahs and bankers have been working together very closely.

All because the quran tells mankind to manage human population and provided resources in such a way that it helps growth of and development of humanity as whole or one single community. To do this it tells people to come together as a brotherhood of humanity, organise and regulate on basis of guidelines in the quran for the goals told in the quran.

It is a comprehensive book when studied properly and unbeatable at that. No such book exists in the world by any theist or atheist. I am very much convinced therefore that the quran is not a book that any human being could produce 1500 years back in time. Not in desert of arabia.

My work on quran is going to take some time to complete but I think it was well worth my time.

What you need to realise is the fact that God is not a chunk of matter sitting on a table that we can touch, see, hear, smell, taste etc. So if anyone is looking for manifest link of that sort then there is none but if one wants explanation than one will find the best explanation only and only in the quran. None can beat it even in a billion years. This is why I accepted this explanation on basis of reason. To me the quran has answers for all questions in human mind but one will have to find them for oneself because one only knows oneself what one is really looking for. All one needs is tool to be able to do that.

You can see the link I provided that will give you access to my understanding of the quran and reason for my interpretation of the quran the way I did it.

regards and all the best.

sum
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

You are a long way away from being able to comment on Islam. In order to be able to make realistic comment you have to decide whether to accept that Muhammad was the perfect example for all mankind to follow, as the Koran states.

I have mentioned this before but the topic of Muhammad`s life does not get the consideration that it deserves. If anyone fully understood the Koran and its new order then it must have been Muhammad otherwise there would be regular corrections by Allah of Muhammad`s words and deeds.

It might come to pass that once you have fully investigated the words and deeds of Muhammad you might decide that Muhammad`s Islam is incorrect and that he was a sinner. One then has to ask why Allah used this evil man to pass on his message while he committed so many atrocities.

You might also come to see that the Koran served Muhammad`s purpose of gaining wealth, power and women. It then becomes highly suspicious that Muhammad invented all these revelations, many of which were situational, for his own ends.

You must examine the life of Muhammad before you comment on Islam as the Koran specifically states that Muhammad was the perfect example for mankind to follow. One can`t argue with Allah.

sum

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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Mughal »

sum wrote:Hello Mughal

You are a long way away from being able to comment on Islam. In order to be able to make realistic comment you have to decide whether to accept that Muhammad was the perfect example for all mankind to follow, as the Koran states.

I have mentioned this before but the topic of Muhammad`s life does not get the consideration that it deserves. If anyone fully understood the Koran and its new order then it must have been Muhammad otherwise there would be regular corrections by Allah of Muhammad`s words and deeds.

It might come to pass that once you have fully investigated the words and deeds of Muhammad you might decide that Muhammad`s Islam is incorrect and that he was a sinner. One then has to ask why Allah used this evil man to pass on his message while he committed so many atrocities.

You might also come to see that the Koran served Muhammad`s purpose of gaining wealth, power and women. It then becomes highly suspicious that Muhammad invented all these revelations, many of which were situational, for his own ends.

You must examine the life of Muhammad before you comment on Islam as the Koran specifically states that Muhammad was the perfect example for mankind to follow. One can`t argue with Allah.

sum
Brother sum, before anyone could argue over a word one has to make clear what is meant by it. Words USWAH HUSNAor sunnah etc have to be defined before being taken as such. The question is what will define them? Like anything else need is mother of invention. So the question is why do we need example to begin with? We need example relevant to need. What defines need? The time and place and the right action needed for a situation or set of circumstances. If you need to do maths then you need examples for maths to help you sort out that sort of problems but if you need to do chemistry then nature of example will need to be of that nature. It will silly if you need help with maths and somebody starts giving you examples for solving language problems.

So examples as you can see are need related. The question then is, what is the purpose of the quran? Unless one is clear about that, one can never be clear about anything.

As I understand things the quran is for guidance of humanity. Guidance for what? That Allah is sole ruler of this world and he has created this universe for his own reason and the man in it.

Now one has to read my other posts to see why Allah created everything. In that context then one has to understand the role of Allah, his messengers, his revelations, his creatures etc etc.

I have explained that Allah expressed himself through creation and revelation and he created man for appreciating divine creativity with independent mind through self learning and doing things with little help from Allah. In that little help is role for revelation and example of the prophets for mankind.

There are two main goals set for humanity in priority order. a) unity of mankind so that mankind are then able to work together as a team and b)to go where no man has gone before. Unless man undertakes these missions mankind will remain confused and in chaos.

Now main goal (a) has other goals with it ie you cannot have unity without peace and harmony and peace and harmony cannot come without progress and prosperity. So you need to establish a human community on basis of brotherhood that is not based upon personal gains because you can only have rivals and enemies not friends if you give priority to personal gains.

Only if you give up idea of living for yourself for sake of bigger goals in life that you can bring about brotherhood not otherwise. This is why Muhammad cannot be example for anything other than what he is sent for to accomplish.

Since he is sent for bringing peace and harmony between mankind so he is an example for humanity to follow in that context.

You are now going to tell me look Mughal, this report says this and that report says that so how can muhammad be example for what is in the quran?

As I have explained before that everyone has enemies from within as well as from outside. I have explained also which people are enemies of quranic ideology and why they are.

All this is playing out today before our very eyes and history also tells same story that we have two parties fighting it out between themselves. a) personal gain based society created by rulers, mullahs and money lenders. In this way of life a few people get away with using and abusing the rest. The result is not hidden do visit any country and its poor section of the community.

b)the other party based upon common good and well being of each other. these people do not live for themselves but for others. Since this ideology does not allow use and abuse of people by each other so there cannot be any rulers eg in form of kings, mullahs or money lenders, so such a society is vehemently opposed tooth and nail by users and abusers through propping up rulers, mullahs and money lenders here, there and everywhere.

They have turned world into a money based business for profit place.This is why you buy everything including people.

When you are able to look at whole thing and see how it is all put together, you will see the quran is not talking about anything but our real world and guiding us regarding how we should live so that we human beings have a blissful and dignified life in this world by using everything Allah has provided for us properly for growth and development and prosperity of humanity as a whole.

All this will not make sense to you because you are coming from a background where holy book is all about religious nonsense. You or anyone else who has similar views due to similar life experience is not going to change his mind till you people understand the picture that I am putting before you from the very same quran that other claim to understand better than me.

Time will prove my point of view once I complete my work on the quran because it will be challenging all religious and secular view points in a very fundamental way. It is total paradigm shift.

There is no way atheism or theism can challenge the quranic viewpoint as I understand things from the quran. The quran is nothing like other scriptures. It is a double edged sword that if you pervert what it says it becomes dangerous for humanity and if you keep it the way it should be then still it is dangerous for those who oppose its guidance and warnings. It is because mankind cannot defeat their creator no matter how clever they think they are.

If you will not let muslims become educated people, you will create a world full of baby minded people who have nothing to live for other than fighting for Allah because they are unable to be a productive people due to lack of education but if you will let them become educated then they will still fight for Allah but this time they will fight for better world because these people know the quran better. So world is stuck between rock and a hard place when it comes to teaching of the quran.

It is in the interest of humanity that it supports educated Muslims so that they could educate Muslims and nonmuslims to be partners in bringing about a better world for all, not just people who use and abuse us all.

This website and many others can play a good role in helping educate people to put humanity on the right track. It is important that people are brought out of religious mindset but you need to let them see the alternative that provides them with better but stable foundation. This is not possible through any other scripture or atheism or secularism etc. If it was possible then hindus, parsis, jews, christians etc would have come up with interpretations of their scriptures that could equal my translation of the quran. This is not even possible by them because all those scriptures are narrations by people who wrote them on behalf of God. They are like muslims' hadith works not like muslims holy book quran in their style. So no matter how best interpretations those scriptures still cannot be proven as good as the quran. However if people come to the quran and study it and then use their own scriptures to see what they really mean then their messages will confirm the quranic message and that is how humanity can come together by knowing the truth without rejecting their scriptures out right.

Hindus are using and abusing hindus on basis of wrong interpretations of their scriptures by rulers and priests and money lenders. The same is true about parsis, jews, christians and muslims. Not only that look at secularists and atheists and democrats etc etc. All because all are lostand have no firm foundation.

The quran throughout repeats words SRAATIM MUSTAQEEM. The firmly founded way of of life. These words first occur in surah one. Telling mankind firmly founded way fo life is the answer to human existence otherwise chaos and confusion will always disturb and trouble people.

You should take some time out and see what I have written and see where it leads at the end of the day. I have completed part 28 so parts 29 and 30 to go.

In fact surah 66 is very interesting for you and others like you because it is normally taken as story of a slave girl which it is not if you look at rest of surahs before it and after it. There is a constant thread in the quran and it is all about creating a proper human community according to the quranic teaching which sets goals and guidelines for humanity to go far. In that context quran explains all things that play any part in the world including God and mankind.

regards and all the best.
Last edited by Mughal on Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Centaur
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by Centaur »

So Mohammed and those rightly guided caliphs were less educated? Were bin laden and 9/11 bombers lacked education ?
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sum
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Re: Mughal the Infidel.

Post by sum »

Hello Mughal

You dispute the generally accepted claim that Muhammad was the perfect example for all mankind to follow because of the meaning of a word. This is entirely irrelevant as it is Muhammad`s words and deeds that define him. You have read Ali Sina`s challenge in which he lists the crimes that Muhannad committed. There is no condemnation in the Koran of any of these and so Muhammad clearly understood the guidance of Allah as to what is acceptable conduct for muslims to follow.

If Muhammad had transgressed then Allah, through the Koran, would have pointed out the errors of his ways - but there is no condemnation. In fact raiding, killing, looting and taking slaves and booty is "lawful and good". One can easily see that there is a remarkable similarity between the aggression in the ahadith and the Koran. Allah is simply Muhammad. It is so clear.

The only times that Muhammad was criticised by Allah was when he was reluctant to act out his lust for his adopted son`s wife and also when he was being given a hard time by his wives for lying to one wife so that he was able to have sex with his concubine.

Can`t you see, Mughal, how transparent the Koran is and how Muhammad created it for his own purposes?

sum

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