Question for Ghaith and MM

[piscohot]

GENETIC ENGINEERING

"They will alter Allah's creation." (4:120)
The holy Quran has prophesied the plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning in this short and concise sentence.

by the way muslim, it's in verse 4:119 and not 4:120.

4:119 - And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will alter the creation of Allah ." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss.

and that's what muslims did. OBEYING Satan and cutting off their foreskins thus ALTERING* the creation of Allah even though circumcision WAS NOT COMMANDED in the quran.

Ghaith have been affected by 4:120 - Satan promises them and arouses desire in them. But Satan does not promise them except delusion.

*permanently

"The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet.

and yet an event as significant as this was NOT recorded by any astrologers(or other witnessess) in other parts of the world during Muhammad's time.

think Ghaith, think...

[Ghaith]

I hope you realize you been sandwiched here. And look at MM he ran away leaving you by yourself, wise guy.

You always make me laugh Iffo

[marduk]

Narrated Anas bin Malik: "The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208)"

Then there must be plenty of reports from around the world in the 600s AD of the moon splitting in two. Please show us a couple, from non-Islamic countries. Until then, I say Arabs and one Indian are liars. Note that the Indian died immediately after seeing the "miracle" so it is unlikely that he reported it to anyone.

Also, those type of things aren't a sign from Allah, they are a sign from a human, who could be using various kinds of trickery or demonic magic. Demons can do miracles. We need to see a cloud, hear an announcement from an angel or hear Allah's voice from the sky. Muhammad therefore doesn't qualify. Sorry, try again. Do you have any Arabs who were announced by Allah or Gabriel? If not, you got NOTHING. The Jews have at least 3, Moses, John the Baptist and Jesus. The score is Jews 3 Arabs 0.

[Connedbymo+co]

...............

As i proved to you the real context you could not refute it so you decided to try and go around it. Sadly that will not work.............

Ghaith...you are such a likable guy.

Now you have fallen for the old "context" excuse. I expected better things from you.

The poor guy is seriously deluded. Allah makes it clear his prophecy will come about by Allah on judgement day yet the fool says otherwise.
What he says is so stupid I'm not sure he believes what he says.

[Yohan]

Right on Ghaith! Didn't the whole India convert to Islam when the prophet split the moon, and as a resut of its emperor converting? Just curious.

You know, NASA scientists have confirmed that moon was split into two at one time. According to their calcuations, the time frame matches with when the prophet lived. As a result of this revelation a few NASA scentists converted to Islam too.

BTW, Did Mohammed even walk on water? Jesus did, you know. So who was a better prophet of Allah?

Split the moon, Walk on water. Both are great miracle. Not going to compare who was the "better" prophet.
But can the walk on water be proven today as the spliting of the moon ?

Thanks Ghaith, for showing the indisputable proof that Moon was split by Mohammed. The question is how did he do it? Did he do it with a Karate chop knockout, or used the circumcision knife? Any ideas, Ghaith? You know NASA is still debating this issue.

It's prophecies to be fulfilled before judgement day comes not that they will come at the day of judgement .

What would happen if I refuse to come to this Judgement day? What's Allah going to do?

[Ghaith]

Allah even though circumcision WAS NOT COMMANDED in the quran.

2:136

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Abraham did his circumcision with an adze at the age of eighty." (Sahih Bukhari, Book #55, Hadith #575)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Five practices are characteristics of the Fitra: circumcision, shaving the pubic region, clipping the nails and cutting the moustaches short." (Sahih Bukhari, Book #72, Hadith #777)

Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that same day Genesis 17:26

and yet an event as significant as this was NOT recorded by any astrologers(or other witnessess) in other parts of the world during Muhammad's time.

If we are to follow your logic than Jesus didnt exist because there are not 3rd party history records of him. Second of all i showed many Eye witnesses from Different places (India and Arabia)

[iffo]

I hope you realize you been sandwiched here. And look at MM he ran away leaving you by yourself, wise guy.

You always make me laugh Iffo

Little buddy When you are speechless and have no answer to my question what choice you have other than laughing and feeling frustrated .

[Ghaith]

...............

As i proved to you the real context you could not refute it so you decided to try and go around it. Sadly that will not work.............

Ghaith...you are such a likable guy.

Now you have fallen for the old "context" excuse. I expected better things from you.

The poor guy is seriously deluded. Allah makes it clear his prophecy will come about by Allah on judgement day yet the fool says otherwise.
What he says is so stupid I'm not sure he believes what he says.

Prove it instead saying its "clear"

[yeezevee]

Allah even though circumcision WAS NOT COMMANDED in the quran.

2:136

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Abraham did his circumcision with an adze at the age of eighty." (Sahih Bukhari, Book #55, Hadith #575)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Five practices are characteristics of the Fitra: circumcision, shaving the pubic region, clipping the nails and cutting the moustaches short." (Sahih Bukhari, Book #72, Hadith #777)

Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that same day Genesis 17:26

and yet an event as significant as this was NOT recorded by any astrologers(or other witnessess) in other parts of the world during Muhammad's time.

If we are to follow your logic than Jesus didnt exist because there are not 3rd party history records of him. Second of all i showed many Eye witnesses from Different places (India and Arabia)

good point Ghaith...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... bqkfigGWc#!


Yap.. culture.. religion.. spirituality..politics..

[yeezevee]

BaBa John Henrik Clarke Ph.D.,The Rise of Islam, (1993)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... bqkfigGWc#!

[Ghaith]

According to Remsburg,

“Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.”

[Ghaith]

There is more evidence that Moses (1300-1400 years before Jesus) Existed than that Jesus did.

[peterpin]

So according to you it follows that any person who concedes the historicity of Moses and /or Jesus must therefore accept that Mohammed split the moon???

Is there a connection between these things?

Not even all Muslims believe in this fanciful story.

Perhaps the answer to the mystery has been in that hadith all along. It mentions that one part was on one side of a mountain, the other on the opposite side.

Sounds to me that the moon was low on the horizon, and a central part of it was occluded by a mountain. So it looked as if the moon was in two parts. That also explains why you could only see it in a particular place.

Ghaith, it's either something like that, or more likely, the whole story has been invented by later Muslims who could see Mohammed without a miracle. So they invented one, bigger and more impressive than other such stories.

The fact that it is mentioned at in the quran as a sign of approaching judgement day made it a neat symbol for the "seal of the prophets". So a story was concocted, possibly inspired by the quranic verse and/or an partically occluded moon behind a mountain.

[Ghaith]

Not even all Muslims believe in this fanciful story.

That like saying not all Christians belive in Jesus.

Perhaps the answer to the mystery has been in that hadith all along. It mentions that one part was on one side of a mountain, the other on the opposite side.

The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder. And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic.
54.1-2

If you where there Peter you would have disbelived and been with the ones who said it was magic.

Sounds to me that the moon was low on the horizon, and a central part of it was occluded by a mountain. So it looked as if the moon was in two parts. That also explains why you could only see it in a particular place.

Narrated Anas bin Malik: "The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208)"

Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: "During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, 'Bear witness (to thus).' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 830)"

Narrated Anas: "That the Meccan people requested Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 831)"

Narrated 'Abdullah: "The moon was split (into two pieces). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 211)"

As we se the other part was not occluded by a mountain. It easy to see that the mountain occluded it. People are not that stupid Peter....

This next hadith destroys you Peter.

Narrated Ibn Masud: "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle the moon was split into two parts; one part remained over the mountain, and the other part went beyond the mountain. On that, Allah's Apostle said, 'Witness this miracle.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)), Volume 6, Book 60, Number 387)"

So dont come with those silly theories...

e whole story has been invented by later Muslims who could see Mohammed without a miracle. So they invented one, bigger and more impressive than other such stories.

Just like Jesus was invented to right Or you want to cherry pick your faith to with no 3rd party evidence ?

You Christians are pathetic...

As for you Iffo, i hope you got your answer.

See you around

[peterpin]

Ghaith I tried to help you out of a corner by providing a rational explanation of the moon splitting thing.

First of all, the two verses at the beginning of surah 54 refer to the hour of judgement, and not to any alleged miracle by Mohammed.

You behave as if the legend of Mohammed splitting the moon is an essential belief to Islam, well it isn't:

Muslim scholar Qadi Iyad who lived in Ceuta in Spain had this to say:

It has not been said of any people on the earth that the moon was observed that night such that it could be stated that it was not split. Even if this had been reported from many different places, so that one would have to exclude the possibility that all agreed upon a lie, yet, we would not accept this as proof to the contrary, for the moon is not seen in the same way by different people.... An eclipse is visible in one country but not in the other one; in one place it is total, in the other one only partial.

Al-Ghazali had these words of wisdom:

As for the one who did not know of that and his eyes happened to see it, he might think a delusion that quickly disappeared, or a star that was beneath the moon and then the moon cleared it, or a fragment of a cloud that covered up a piece of the moon. For this reason, it was not extensively reported.

Shah Waliullah of Delhi said that the event

"may have been a kind of hallucination, or perhaps caused by a smoke, by the swooping down of a star, a cloud, or an eclipse of the sun or the moon which might be given the impression that the moon was actually split in two."

So, you can put away the moon splitting story without feeling that you compromise Islam.

[skynightblaze]

@Ghaith

Have you really gone to a school? Those miracles are laughable and I really cannot understand as to how anyone with basic school degree can take such things seriously.I will take all your miracles apart . here is the first one..

The hoax of moon miracle has already been debunked..

http://alisina.org/moon-split-or-islamic-hoax/

You have shown some pictures of moon with a crack in it. They are called riles and they are also found on lot of planets and not just moon. Read the above article..

[Ghaith]

Ghaith I tried to help you out of a corner by providing a rational explanation of the moon splitting thing.

First of all, the two verses at the beginning of surah 54 refer to the hour of judgement, and not to any alleged miracle by Mohammed.

You behave as if the legend of Mohammed splitting the moon is an essential belief to Islam, well it isn't:

Muslim scholar Qadi Iyad who lived in Ceuta in Spain had this to say:

It has not been said of any people on the earth that the moon was observed that night such that it could be stated that it was not split. Even if this had been reported from many different places, so that one would have to exclude the possibility that all agreed upon a lie, yet, we would not accept this as proof to the contrary, for the moon is not seen in the same way by different people.... An eclipse is visible in one country but not in the other one; in one place it is total, in the other one only partial.

Al-Ghazali had these words of wisdom:

As for the one who did not know of that and his eyes happened to see it, he might think a delusion that quickly disappeared, or a star that was beneath the moon and then the moon cleared it, or a fragment of a cloud that covered up a piece of the moon. For this reason, it was not extensively reported.

Shah Waliullah of Delhi said that the event

"may have been a kind of hallucination, or perhaps caused by a smoke, by the swooping down of a star, a cloud, or an eclipse of the sun or the moon which might be given the impression that the moon was actually split in two."

So, you can put away the moon splitting story without feeling that you compromise Islam.

Its an Sahih hadith reported by Many Im not going to take the words of a few scholars over a clear hadith

Also where did you get that 54:1-3 is talking about the Judgement day

Sahih International
The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two].
And if they see a miracle, they turn away and say, "Passing magic."
And they denied and followed their inclinations. But for every matter is a [time of] settlement.

The hour is not judgement day but the hour the moon split.

Alternate Translations


Muhsin Khan
The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder (the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muhammad SAW to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon).

Pickthall
The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.

Yusuf Ali
The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.

Shakir
The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder.

The hours is clearly the hour Muhammad would show a miracle. as Muhsin Khan puts it.

Here is a tafsir

Tafsir al-Jalalayn

The Hour has drawn near, the Resurrection is close at hand, and the moon has split, it broke in two at [Mount] Abū Qubays and Qu‘ayqa‘ān, as a sign for the Prophet (s), for it had been demanded of him, and [when it took place] he said, ‘Bear witness [now]!’ — as reported by the two Shaykhs [al-Bukhārī and Muslim].

[Ghaith]

@Ghaith

Have you really gone to a school? Those miracles are laughable and I really cannot understand as to how anyone with basic school degree can take such things seriously.I will take all your miracles apart . here is the first one..

The hoax of moon miracle has already been debunked..

http://alisina.org/moon-split-or-islamic-hoax/

You have shown some pictures of moon with a crack in it. They are called riles and they are also found on lot of planets and not just moon. Read the above article..

Reading for less than 15 seconds i saw that retard Ali Sina made a mistake saying

In various places Muhammad admitted that he could not perform miracles.

It was Allah who split the Moon, Muhammad pointed at it with his Middle finger to show the power of God. Muhammad was nothing more than a mortal he couldnt split it at any time he wanted.

As for his photos he failed to come even close to



Sky you should give out Ali Sina articles as a rebutal, his an idiot. He tought that Abu Bakr was Muhammads foster brother.

[peterpin]

There are Muslims who will seriously contend that Mohammed split the moon,but not all do, and it is not apparently required for a Muslimto believe this. As we know, Ghaith, Mohammed said that his only miracle was the quran. So it is perfectly reasonable to suppose that the moon splitting thing is a later legend.

Ibn KAthir has this to say about 54:1

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2995

If you really insist you want to believe that, knock yourself out; stark raving mad if you ask me, but by all means, believe in the flying spaghetti monster, if you must. Just a friendly piece of advice,if I may: If you MUST believe in something quite insane, don't tell other people, they will start thinking you are mad...

What is also strange that suddenly you have a fondness for sahih hadith, but the ones I show you you can happy dismiss as fake.

With all those twists and turns,do you not get dizzy?

Also, you keep mentioning that perhaps Jesus never existed. Does that match with the quran/hadith?

In your new found fondness for sahih hadith, have you re-evaluated the story about Solomons wives as well?

[Ghaith]

TIf you MUST believe in something quite insane, don't tell other people, they will start thinking you are mad...

This doesnt stop the Christians from telling people about the trinty

and it is not apparently required for a Muslimto believe this.

Its in the Quran....

I show you you can happy dismiss as fake.

The one you showed me contradicts the Quran, and are easily refuted.

you keep mentioning that perhaps Jesus never existed

I never said Jesus never existed. I said there are no 3rd party sources to this claim. How ever there are to Muhammad and his miracle by Nasa Also about the black stone being a rare and strange meteorite.

have you re-evaluated the story about Solomons wives as well?

100 90 60 are all in Bukhari