I declare Islam to be false

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
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iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Eagle wrote:
Spoiler! :
iffo wrote:Muslim scholars confirm that Muhammad soon after getting power did attack / harass his neighboring tribes in which people died. He raided the caravans
The believers are never once told to go forth to battle because of war booty and in fact the Quran says that only those who sell this world's life for the hereafter are worthy of fighting in Allah's way for the defense of the helpless 4:74-5, neither is fighting for the propagation of Islam once mentionned in the whole of the Quran.
48:18-19 relate events that have passed and how Allah tranquilized the hearts of the believers among those who swore allegiance to the prophet, rewarded them with a victory soon after as well as war booty which they acquired consequently to the battle.
Then in 48:20 the Quran reminds of God's promise to the rest of the believers regarding war booty. It was His intent to give victory to the believers fighting in His way and reward them in this very world 8:17"and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself". However the Quran repeatedly warns the believers that wordly gains are not the objective of Jihad 4:94"when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace: You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life? But with Allah there are abundant gains". The Quran relates in 8:5-8 how Allah tested the believers' motives in battle in order to purge them from their greed; if they would run after the booty or stand firm with the prophet to defend Islam. When the aqcuisition of slaves became strictly restricted to the war campaigns after which they had to be freed, God warned the Muslims that during battle the motive must be the crushing of the enemy of Islam instead of capturing prisonners 8:67"you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise". The believers are then strongly admonished in 3:152 for their attitude during the battle of Uhud and them becoming "weak-hearted" for having "desired this world" after Allah "had shown you that which you loved" ie the booty. This shows that going to battle with the unique motive of wordly gains is not considered noble in God's eyes.
The Quran would therefore stir up the believers for battle based on the reality of their opression 4:75, that Allah's help will come at the battlfield 4:84, and that success in the Hereafter awaits those who fight or are slain in Allah's way 4:74. And although the believers are promised wordly gains as a result of their faith in God and His prophet, as a result of their personal sacrifices for the sake of their cause against all odds, the Quran stresses that these wordly gains must never be the true m otive.
Just as obeying a divine injuction to fight in Allah's way results in being rewarded in this world as well as the next 48:18-21, turning one's back to the enemy and refusing to fight in Allah's way makes a person 48:16,8:16"deserving of Allah's wrath" in this world as well as the next. History bares testimony to this fact with the example of the Israelites who had refused to put their trust in the prophet Musa to go forth and fight in Allah's way. Their wordly reward was consequently taken away and they were forbidden entry into the blessed land and sent to wander 40 years in the desert until the last one of those who had shown cowardice was dead and a new generation raised instead. See the Quran in 2:243,5:21-26 as well as the OT in Numbers13:28-33,14:1-35 and Deut2:7,14.
The Muslims are warned that the same fate awaits those who turn their backs to the prophet when they are called to struggle in Allah's way 9:38-39"If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things". The Believers should rejoice at the opportunity of serving God's cause but what God wishes to accomplish isnt really dependent on them for He could easily uproot them in case of disobedience and rise another people instead. However, those who followed the prophet Muhammad in times of peace and war are the opposite example. Contrary to the majority of Israelites in Moses' time who refused to march forth despite witnessing all kinds of divine miracles, the majority of Muhammad's followers fought when ordered to. Because of all their sacrifices and because they went forth when they were commanded to, they were made successors in the land 6:133-134 and they earned Allah's rewards in this world as well as, God wills, in the next.
In addition, the Muslims are commanded not to neglect the obligatory prayers, even when facing the enemy at the battlefield 4:101-3. This shows the true objective of these warriors fighting to free themselves and their people from religious bondage; fighting was not their primary occupation for when the time of holding the timed and ordained communion with their Lord arrived, they performed their spiritual obligations despite the imminent danger.

As regards to the division of spoils. Muslims were given the right to capture as war booty all things brought to the battelfield by their aggressors, including the fighters themselves whose enslavement was a form of divine punishement as well as mercy for during captivity they had to be treated with the utmost care thus seeing the reality and justice of Islam after which they could reform themselves, change attitude towards Islam and be freed 8:67-71. Besides their weapons and other military equipement, waring Arab tribes would often go as far as bring their women and slaves to the battlefield in order to galvanize themselves and do their utmost not to retreat or lose a battle, for their defeat would make them lose their possessions and even worse yet their own women. This is not a command to plunder their enemies and kill their innocent family members as the Israelites are alleged to have done through Divine sanction Deut3:6-7,21:1-18 but to seize whatever is left behind by the aggressor on the battlefield.
The Quran legislates and divides the posessions of the enemy that fall into Muslim hands into 2 groups. Those acquired directly from warfare, called ghanima that are to be split into 1/5th for 8:41"Allah and for the Messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer". The remaining 4/5th would be redistributed to those who actively took part in the war effort as obviously they were not otherwise paid for their services, although there is no order to this effect in the Quran itself. Since the State was not yet fully formed, that there was no treasury with a military budget and that the Muslims, for the sake of their own survival, were required to carry their military duties on the basis of voluntary gifts, so they were allowed a share in war acquisitions 8:60"and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly".
The second group is the booty acquired without fighting (such as the surrender of an enemy) called fay (from anfa'a, He restored). Since this category of spoils is obtained without fighting, the warriors had no share in it. The fay fall entirely under the control of "God and the Messenger", ie the State in order for it to be redistributed exclusively to those in need, and avoid it falling between the hands of those who can sustain themselves 59:7"so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich" and for the general welfare of the community 59:7"the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer..the poor who fled their homes and their possessions".
It is to be noted that in both cases, the prophet's share is put in the same group as that of the weak people of society meaning he never had a share exclusively for his own person. The dispute that followed the prophet's death over the gardens of Fadak, which were fay, between Fatima the prophet's daughter who claimed the inheritance and Abu Bakr the Caliph who wanted the property to be primarly redistributed to the needy as the prophet did in his lifetime, is testimony to this fact. The hadith and the Quran itself testify to the rigorous lifestyle of the prophet, and his household's complaints that ensued.
iffo wrote:and he did marry Aisha when she was 9
Besides a simple study of the transmission chain proving the weakness of such reports, what you and those other disbelievers you've been dwelling with for a while on this site need to come to grip with is that it is well documented that Aisha was born in Jahilliya, meaning there is no way possible she could have been less than 13 years old at the time of hijra as some ahadith suggest. She was previously engaged then divorced before her union with the prophet, to a vehement enemy of the prophet meaning she would have been 4 or less prior to her alleged engagement to the prophet at 6. Further, she clearly relates herself as having an active role in getting the travelling goods together in such a highly tense situation per the narrations, meaning there is no way possible a 9 year old girl could have been acting in such a way. This is precisely why some scholars, and people will question their validity of being a scholar without basis, argue she was probably around 18. Public criticism, according to the tradition, was laid at Umar for his trying to marry Fatima, because she was young and Umar was old, almost the same age difference between the Prophet and Aisha. In fact, the traditions record that this was one of the objections of Ali for the union and public criticism had gotten to the point Umar had to defend himself for the move in public. Umar made the point that he only wanted to marry her to affirm his ties with the House of the Prophet. Umar didn't use the precedent of the Prophet marrying Aisha at an alleged young age. Also, if it was a norm of Arab culture, then why would he draw the criticism of the city of Medina for such an act?
iffo wrote:His marrying of young beautiful enemy women in his custody after their husband got killed was no act of mercy but a brutal exploitation of helpless women.
Those (2 women) you are referring to were freed then married so which brutality you and those with you are speaking about. Anyone familiar with the Quran knows that marriage can never be forced, neither sex between husband and wife. Anyone even superficially knowledgable with the Holy Book, knows that the wife can demand the divorce if she feels opressed and unhappy
iffo wrote:His killing of 400-900 jews like chickens was barbaric and not a act of a merciful prophet
Prophets execute God's will on Earth and it is actually one of the mark of a prophet's truthfulness that destruction befalls those who oppose him, that he and the followers are established in the land instead of the disbelievers conditionally on their righteousness. These traitors of Bani Qurayza who had not only NOT stood by their covenant of defending Medina against foreign invasion but had also sided with the ennemy that their own prophets fought in the OT, and even attempted to attack the fortress where Muslim women and children had been lodged for safety were rightfully besieged for 25 days without fighting until they surrendered after they realized that they were going to lose the battle and that the pagans with whom they were allied will not come to their help, i.e. because they had to. They didnt surrender out of any change of heart 3:111"They shall by no means harm you but with a slight evil; and if they fight with you they shall turn (their) backs to you, then shall they not be helped". Thus the parable of the 2 sons of Adam was repeating itself 5:27-31. It was recited to the Children of Israel as a warning not to reject and kill their brothers, the sons of Ismail, out of envy and aversion because of a prophet having being raised outside their line or it would only harm their own souls and create a situation where they will be thrown into intense remorse and regret. The Israelites plotted against the Ishmaelite prophet for the same reason for which the erring son of Adam had slain his pious brother. They could not see the obvious fact that God withdrew His favor from them and bestowed it upon their more God-counscious brothers, just as Cain's offering was refused for lack of piety while that of the God-fearing Abel was accepted. Instead of considering the matter, they plotted to kill those whom God had blessed with His favors.

Muhammad allowed them to choose their own arbitrator. That arbitrator was one of their allies that they thought would actually save them from their impending punishment but the Awsite Sa'd ibn Mu'adh who they promised to willingly accept his decision thinking he would show them any leniency, judged them according to their law in regards to the land of Canaan, which is death of all fighting men, enslavement of women and children and confiscation of their livestock Deut20:10-15. He imposed this judgement just before the wound which he had suffered in his arm during the battle suddenly opened and the blood continued to gush out until he died. All fighting Jewish men were slain, the women and children taken as captives, their lands distributed to the Muslims immigrating to Medina and their wealth shared among all Muslims with one-fifth for public purposes. Bani Israel were thus once again destroyed through divine punishment for their treachery and transgression, as it happened to them twice before and as prophecied will happen again and again up to the Day of Resurrection if they return to disobedience 17:4-8,7:167. Abasement and humiliation was made to cleave on them wherever they went 3:112 as in the days of Moses when they refused to follow him and enter the Holy Land 2:61. They were once again engulfed by the divine curse and wrath and whenever they kindled a fire for war after that, Allah put it out 33:26"And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part. And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property".

The prophet was at war for over 13 years with various tribes, including other Jews than Bani Qurayza. If he was a war lord that loved blood as you and your people enjoy to claim by raising this incident, then it would be easy to provide evidence for this lust for be-heading and decapitating to establish a precedent. Banu Quayza wasn't the only tribe nor did Kinan represent all the Jews. In fact, it is well documented that Jews continued to live in that region, only to be expelled many years after the Prophet died, by Umar. They were shifted to other regions and given paid settlements.
iffo wrote:Giving master the permission to have sex with women in his custody
Go there viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11057&start=0#p167384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am least worried about his motive to attack his neighboring tribes. The fact that he attacked others to spread his religion was wrong. Soon after getting power he launched one expedition after another on people around him and started harassing them, In which people got killed. What was the fault of those people I ask? and who is responsible for that
Which prophet will act like a thug and a bandit? Which stupid god wants his religion to be spread like this by attacking other innocent people whose only fault was that they were not convinced that this guy was a prophet ... Which prophet will attack on the trade caravans one after another like a highway robber.

Regarding Aisha age, I myself tried to deny that as much as I could, but the fact is there are far too many authentic hadiths to over rule any other story regarding Aisha's age. There is hadith after hadith confirming and saying the same thing that she was a little baby when she was engaged and married when she was 9 (still a little girl). These hadits are far more authentic than any other story about her age. There is no way out of it. What kind a pathetic example he has set for his followers? He has ruined the lives of millions and millions of girls who were married to old bags just because they don't see anything wrong with it since prophet did the same thing. Would you be ok if a 55 years old bag ask you to marry your 10 year old daughter to him? or dreaming about her? Wouldnt' you consider him mental? That is exactly what Muhammad did.

Killing 400-900 Jews was not an act of a person who calls himself "Mercy to mankind" but an evil act. I understand him killing the leaders who were traitors, but killing the solders (even 14-15 year old boys) who have no say in it, they will do what the leader will ask them to do, why kill them while their mothers and sisters moaning inside. Did he feel any mercy for them (No he did not, nor your so called merciful and forgiving god did)

Regarding "Right hand possesses", Which slave girl whose every breath depends on his master will say no to his master and offend him if he is approching her or proposing her. How many scared women just could not say 'no' and ended up having sex against their will? Which retarded god will make such a dumb statement?.

Having sex with a teenage girl few days if not next day after her husband's death makes me puke. What kind a animal will do this to a girl. Why could not he make her his daughter or sister, why he had to go between her legs. What about to 3 month waiting period? That rule does not apply on him?

If you read Islamic history by muslim scholars you will see how muslims lusted on slave women, infact Muhammad encouraged a person to join the war against Romans so he can get a white woman. Ali lusted on a woman but before he could ask Muhammad , Muhammad gave that woman to somebody else. Using woman like a commodity is a shameful act and no guy doing this is worthy of respect. This world would have been far better with out Muhammad. He and his 4 Caliphas has shed so much blood in the name of god by attacking others' lands that I don't know why anyone can feel proud to associate himself with them.

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

survivor wrote: Just got to read this thread today, and, I am so glad to have my long lost little bro iffo back in the fold of humanity that we all [ ex muslims and non-muslims] have accepted as the ultimate TRUTH. All the while, I knew there was an intellectual brain lurking behind as I read his previous posts. But, in the mean time, was also sceptical, as I saw him allowing islam cover his brain as an ugly black shroud of satan. Hope, he will never return to that state again,

I am sure of seeing such dramatic changes happen in brothers Ozes and SAM too, in the nearest future. We are waiting to greet you folks to the humanity....
Sincerely,
survivor.
Don't ever dreaming that you will see a dramatic changes happen on me...I am what I am :*)

There so many questions left unanswered.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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pr126
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by pr126 »

Congratulations in order for iffo!
I have doubted you at the beginning of this thread, but now I am convinced that you are on the "right path".

Welcome!

Of course you will get a lot of flak from the Muslim "brothers", but ignore them.
Keep safe!
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

piscohot
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by piscohot »

SAM wrote:Don't ever dreaming that you will see a dramatic changes happen on me...I am what I am :*)

There so many questions left unanswered.
are you kidding JAM?

Didn't the quran said it EXPLAINED EVERYTHING?

if it didn't, perhaps you can find it in the ..secret teachings of Muhammad?
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

piscohot wrote:
SAM wrote:Don't ever dreaming that you will see a dramatic changes happen on me...I am what I am :*)

There so many questions left unanswered.
are you kidding JAM?

Didn't the quran said it EXPLAINED EVERYTHING?

if it didn't, perhaps you can find it in the ..secret teachings of Muhammad?
There so many questions left unanswered...by all of you..
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

iffo wrote:The fact that he attacked others to spread his religion was wrong...infact Muhammad encouraged a person to join the war against Romans so he can get a white woman.
You're repeating a stupid argument debunked by the Quran, re-read that post you quoted andhow nobody was ever told to fight others for the spread of Islam and how Muslims are warned that the perspective of gaining booty as an outcome of fighting the enemy can never be the motive
iffo wrote:Regarding Aisha age, I myself tried to deny that as much as I could, but the fact is there are far too many authentic hadiths
Again, repeating something stupid to try and make it look true wont solve all the problems raised in that post you quoted. Read it again
iffo wrote:What kind a pathetic example he has set for his followers?
Repeating the same illogical arguments. So the prophet Muhammad established a precedent to his followersof marrying 9 year old girls yet Ali and Umar entered into a conflict about Fatima's marriage at the same age?
iffo wrote:Killing 400-900 Jews was not an act of a person who calls himself "Mercy to mankind" but an evil act
They treacherously attacked Muslim women and children, they allied with those who wanted Muslims exterminated, they got defeated, their fighters got killed according to their own law which they requested be applied on themselves by the very judge they designated. Now where is the injustice in all this and how does "Mercy" negate the proper application of "Justice"
iffo wrote:Regarding "Right hand possesses", Which slave girl whose every breath depends on his master will say no to his master and offend him if he is approching her or proposing her.
Go and read again the quotes from the Quran on how the Muslims are commanded to treat them as they would treat their own parents, how they cannot abuse them in any way nor go against their desire for chastity.
iffo wrote:Using woman like a commodity is a shameful act and no guy doing this is worthy of respect.
Right and the Quran expressedly condemned the merchendising of human beings, as well as the capture of prisonners except in the defensive war campaigns after which they had to be freed. They had to be treated with the utmost care during captivity in order to give them an occasion to reform themselves and their belligerent attitude before their freedom. And for the last time about the 2 women you keep ranting about why he did not simply adopt them, you were already told they were FREED then MARRIED and no marriage is valid in Islam unless the 2 parties agree

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pr126
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by pr126 »

Spoiler! :
Eagle wrote:
iffo wrote:The fact that he attacked others to spread his religion was wrong...infact Muhammad encouraged a person to join the war against Romans so he can get a white woman.
You're repeating a stupid argument debunked by the Quran, re-read that post you quoted andhow nobody was ever told to fight others for the spread of Islam and how Muslims are warned that the perspective of gaining booty as an outcome of fighting the enemy can never be the motive
iffo wrote:Regarding Aisha age, I myself tried to deny that as much as I could, but the fact is there are far too many authentic hadiths
Again, repeating something stupid to try and make it look true wont solve all the problems raised in that post you quoted. Read it again
iffo wrote:What kind a pathetic example he has set for his followers?
Repeating the same illogical arguments. So the prophet Muhammad established a precedent to his followersof marrying 9 year old girls yet Ali and Umar entered into a conflict about Fatima's marriage at the same age?
iffo wrote:Killing 400-900 Jews was not an act of a person who calls himself "Mercy to mankind" but an evil act
They treacherously attacked Muslim women and children, they allied with those who wanted Muslims exterminated, they got defeated, their fighters got killed according to their own law which they requested be applied on themselves by the very judge they designated. Now where is the injustice in all this and how does "Mercy" negate the proper application of "Justice"
iffo wrote:Regarding "Right hand possesses", Which slave girl whose every breath depends on his master will say no to his master and offend him if he is approching her or proposing her.
Go and read again the quotes from the Quran on how the Muslims are commanded to treat them as they would treat their own parents, how they cannot abuse them in any way nor go against their desire for chastity.
iffo wrote:Using woman like a commodity is a shameful act and no guy doing this is worthy of respect.
Right and the Quran expressedly condemned the merchendising of human beings, as well as the capture of prisonners except in the defensive war campaigns after which they had to be freed. They had to be treated with the utmost care during captivity in order to give them an occasion to reform themselves and their belligerent attitude before their freedom. And for the last time about the 2 women you keep ranting about why he did not simply adopt them, you were already told they were FREED then MARRIED and no marriage is valid in Islam unless the 2 parties agree
Eagle, I think you are treading water here.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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marduk
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by marduk »

SAM is a hardcore slave. He won't start thinking for himself until he is the last person remaining on earth. Not everybody is comfortable with having to figure out how to wipe their bum themself. No, not the paper, the rock, or possibly the scissors. If Muhammad had said "take thee the papyrus reeds, make them into paper, wipe thy bum with the paper" then I would have believed he was the Prophet. A rock? Naw, he's a dumb Arab fo' sho'.

Ram
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Ram »

SAM wrote:There so many questions left unanswered...by all of you..
True, there are many questions we have not anwered. But you have not anwered our questions either. The fact is that our information comes from the Quran, the Hadiths, the Sunnah. We have heard many Muslim scholars of Islam.

We are saying the way we understand your Islamic sources, and we understand them very well. You should re-read your books. You should think very carefully - why do we say what we say.

iffo has come to the same conclusion as we have after reading Islamic scriptures. Your conclusion may be different, but you should read your books carefully. You should think about what we say and why.
Last edited by Ram on Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.

iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

@eagle

You need to spend sometime reAding Islamic history and what early
Muslim historians have written.

You keep saying it goes against what quran says. Well the simple answer is they did not do what quran says

Quran is the dumbest book anyway . One day it says kiss them. Next it says kill them .
Did Muhammad follow Quran regarding 3 months waiting period?
Does Quran say pray 5 times a day? Then why you pray 5 times?

Did Muhammad do all those expeditions to give them candies .?
Did not 4 caliphs spread the Islamic empire to one country after another?
Was it done by not attacking them? Why you want to keep yourself ignorant about it ?

Is Aisha lying about her age on all those authentic hadiths or umar account is
More authentic?

Why dumb god give permission to have sex with slaves how many women Could not express themselves in fear? Have u thought about it?
Last edited by iffo on Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

Iffo, get lost. You're weak, no arguments at all and closing your eyes to everything refuting what your low desires want you to believe.

iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Eagle wrote:Iffo, get lost. You're weak, no arguments at all and closing your eyes to everything refuting what your low desires want you to believe.
I take it that you have admitted your defeat. You could not deny a single accusation and ran way with tale between your legs. And I was just starting. Why don't you become man enough and answer why 4 caliphs attacked other countries? why Muhammad could not wait 3 months before getting between 17 years old legs? Are all the Islamic scholars wrong who say Aisha was 9 and consider these hadiths to be far more authentic than your Umar/Fatima story? Would you marry your 9 or 13 year old daughter to 55 years old? Why Muhammad raided the caravns? have you ever read Islamic history ever?

Your love for your stupid religion has sealed your brain that you can not see the difference between right and wrong, between just and injust.

If you can not defend your religion and prophet than they are both false.

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

Ram wrote:
SAM wrote:There so many questions left unanswered...by all of you..
True, there are many questions we have not anwered. But you have not anwered our questions either. The fact is that our information comes from the Quran, the Hadiths, the Sunnah. We have heard many Muslim scholars of Islam.
There are two types of graduate scholarships ..One appointed by human being and another one appointed by Allah Himself..

al-Khidhr saying to Moses, "I have knowledge given to me by Allah which you do not know, and you have other knowledge given to you by Allah which I do not know,"
We are saying the way we understand your Islamic sources, and we understand them very well. You should re-read your books. You should think very carefully - why do we say what we say.
Sorry Ram!... You think reading from all Islamic sources i:e Quran and Hadith ..you knows everything about Islam... But what do you know? Oh you know nothing about!...You still have much to learn.
iffo has come to the same conclusion as we have after reading Islamic scriptures. Your conclusion may be different, but you should read your books carefully. You should think about what we say and why.
That Allah has created us, has given us sustenance, and has not left us without guidance... I should think about what Allah say and why.You (we all) was born with essentially no knowledge and no beliefs..

Do you still remember when we had this debate "empty cup"..Spiritual path. The best way for the ilm (knowlegdeable} is to make our self an empty cup into which might be poured the illuminating words. Who is ready to learn whatever may be taught to him by Supreme Being.

I repeat again and again..."don't ever dreaming that you will see a dramatic changes happen on me...I am what I am"
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

iffo wrote:
I take it that you have admitted your defeat. You could not deny a single accusation and ran way with tale between your legs. And I was just starting. Why don't you become man enough and answer why 4 caliphs attacked other countries? why Muhammad could not wait 3 months before getting between 17 years old legs? Are all the Islamic scholars wrong who say Aisha was 9 and consider these hadiths to be far more authentic than your Umar/Fatima story? Would you marry your 9 or 13 year old daughter to 55 years old? Why Muhammad raided the caravns? have you ever read Islamic history ever?

Your love for your stupid religion has sealed your brain that you can not see the difference between right and wrong, between just and injust.

If you can not defend your religion and prophet than they are both false.
Mind your language....whoever you are. :heh:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

yeezevee
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by yeezevee »

SAM wrote: "empty cup"..Spiritual path. empty cup ...
Yes.. empty cup ..empty cup.. we all come out of empty cup and we all go in to the empty cup..

SAM... you are a smart guy., I am sure you know the difference between religious scriptures, sayings, uttering of alleged prophets, books written on them or by them, prophets, religious Philosophies, SCIENCE AND SPIRITUALITY.

Don't mix Science & Spirituality with books/religions and Prophets. You are simply trying to defend indefensible past religious concept that has indefensible person as its messenger. So people ask tough questions and the only way for you, me (some times back) or anyone else is evading tough questions is going in to "empty cup".. I mean EMPTY Philosophy. That is O.K. that is the way millions of people in the past lived and died. But I am sure you know the difference between ..Spiritual path. and "empty cup"
SAM wrote:
Spoiler! :
iffo wrote:
I take it that you have admitted your defeat. You could not deny a single accusation and ran way with tale between your legs. And I was just starting. Why don't you become man enough and answer why 4 caliphs attacked other countries? why Muhammad could not wait 3 months before getting between 17 years old legs? Are all the Islamic scholars wrong who say Aisha was 9 and consider these hadiths to be far more authentic than your Umar/Fatima story? Would you marry your 9 or 13 year old daughter to 55 years old? Why Muhammad raided the caravns? have you ever read Islamic history ever?
Your love for your stupid religion has sealed your brain that you can not see the difference between right and wrong, between just and unjust.

If you can not defend your religion and prophet than they are both false.
Mind your language....whoever you are. :heh:
well one time other time we have to face tough language, tough questions SAM., one way is if we can not answer we just have to go in to caves or travel in to empty cups.. lol.
"don't ever dreaming that you will see a dramatic changes happen on me...I am what I am"
[/quote]No one can change any one SAM. And no one should try to change any one., It is only you who can change. others are just spitting the truth and facts of History..

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

iffo wrote:
Eagle wrote:Iffo, get lost. You're weak, no arguments at all and closing your eyes to everything refuting what your low desires want you to believe.
I take it that you have admitted your defeat. You could not deny a single accusation and ran way with tale between your legs. And I was just starting..... bla bla bla
You've been learning well from your master nicknamed Sina. Come at the end of an exchange where you got stumped, claim that i havent answered anything then repeat the already refuted claims to give the illusion that your stupid arguments still stand. Get lost, loser.

yeezevee
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by yeezevee »

Eagle wrote:
iffo wrote:
Eagle wrote:Iffo, get lost. You're weak, ...
I take it that you have admitted your defeat. You could not deny a single accusation and ran way with tale between your legs. And I was just starting..... bla bla bla
..................that your stupid arguments still stand. Get lost, loser.
Truth and Facts do really hurt Eagle..

with best wishes
yeezevee

iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Eagle wrote:
iffo wrote:
Eagle wrote:Iffo, get lost. You're weak, no arguments at all and closing your eyes to everything refuting what your low desires want you to believe.
I take it that you have admitted your defeat. You could not deny a single accusation and ran way with tale between your legs. And I was just starting..... bla bla bla
You've been learning well from your master nicknamed Sina. Come at the end of an exchange where you got stumped, claim that i havent answered anything then repeat the already refuted claims to give the illusion that your stupid arguments still stand. Get lost, loser.
Eagle you are the loser who lost and could not defend your prophet and religion in public , you let muslims down, what a shame. See how easy it was to burst your islam bubble that you were so proud about . Again I challenge you if you are man enough defend your religion and answer my questions rather than acting like a whuss and running away .

BTW you did answer a jack, your answer is Quran say this and that while history tell us that Muhammad go and raid caravans and attack every other tribe and harass them.
Last edited by iffo on Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ygalg
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by ygalg »

SAM wrote:Mind your language....whoever you are. :heh:
mind your language, whoever you are :tongueout:
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

sum
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by sum »

Hello Eagle

What does Islam say should happen to iffo now that he has declared his apostasy?

If Islam dictates that iffo should be punished would you support the punishment whatever you tell us it is?

sum

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