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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:59 pm
by darth
To all old and new apostates,
Stay safe, live and prosper! Don't do anything so stupid as shout something about your beliefs in a mosque (or street in muslim country)

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:33 pm
by Ram
SAM wrote:Just sound like a unreal person! Fake iffo
Why iffo is fake and you are not? You have your beliefs and iffo has his - do you have a problem with that?

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:48 am
by Ozes
Iffo, Christianity doesn't allow you to kill any person, when Christians kill gays or adulturers they break the few rules actually given directly by God. You probably know this, but you got a job to do.

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:39 am
by iffo
Ozes wrote:Iffo, Christianity doesn't allow you to kill any person, when Christians kill gays or adulturers they break the few rules actually given directly by God. You probably know this, but you got a job to do.
Christianity does not allow killing because you are not following your bible, if you follow bible the way you are suppose to you will be doing all sort of crazy things.

But I give credit to christians for not following the bible.

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:52 am
by Intelligent lad
SAM wrote: Just sound like a unreal person! Fake iffo
It's your turn now,SAM. APOSTAISE!!!!!!!!! BE FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!! You are not a slave of Allah. Stop the fear of Devil Allah's Hell. Reject Pimp Allah's brothel of 72 Virgins...Come on! , you can do it . You can be free.! We Kaffirs love you...Join us in loving all of Humanity. :heartbeat:

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:43 am
by SAM
Intelligent lad wrote:
SAM wrote: Just sound like a unreal person! Fake iffo
It's your turn now,SAM. APOSTAISE!!!!!!!!! BE FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!! You are not a slave of Allah. Stop the fear of Devil Allah's Hell. Reject Pimp Allah's brothel of 72 Virgins...Come on! , you can do it . You can be free.! We Kaffirs love you...Join us in loving all of Humanity. :heartbeat:
There is NO Christianity, Judaism, Hindusim, Buddhist etc..except Islam..And I am SAM, Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Muhammad and all known and unknown prophets, as messenger of Almighty..

My Word of God not clear to you....
:*)

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:49 am
by pr126
Muhammad said there will be no more prophets after him. :

Happy Birthday, you blasphemer!

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:56 am
by SAM
Ram wrote:
SAM wrote:Just sound like a unreal person! Fake iffo
Why iffo is fake and you are not?
I am waiting for him to say something.. What he had said to me before and then I believe he is real iffo
You have your beliefs and iffo has his -
You're right!..It's none of my business..
do you have a problem with that?
Something fishy... :*)

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:02 pm
by SAM
pr126 wrote:Muhammad said there will be no more prophets after him. :

Happy Birthday, you blasphemer!
I know Muhammad more than you think you are... Who is real Muhammad,Jesus, Abraham, Adam and Moses. My knowing of Muhammad,Jesus, Abraham, Adam and Moses is not through the Torah,Bible and Quran and also it is not through Islam, Judaism and Christian theology. I know them all directly.
.. :*)

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:17 pm
by Ozes
iffo wrote:
Ozes wrote:Iffo, Christianity doesn't allow you to kill any person, when Christians kill gays or adulturers they break the few rules actually given directly by God. You probably know this, but you got a job to do.
Christianity does not allow killing because you are not following your bible, if you follow bible the way you are suppose to you will be doing all sort of crazy things.

But I give credit to christians for not following the bible.
Thou shall not kill


Its not:
Thou shall not kill, except for..

That's Islam your talking about. I think the human mind is the problem when the clearest sign of commandment comes down and spefically tells people not to kill anyone regardless of reason, and people still misunderstand.

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:56 pm
by Ram
Ozes wrote:Iffo, Christianity doesn't allow you to kill any person, when Christians kill gays or adulturers they break the few rules actually given directly by God. You probably know this, but you got a job to do.
Christians do not follow the Bible literally anymore. They have discarded many Biblical beliefs of the Old Testament.

The Cathlolic Church still promotes intolerance against Hindus and Buddhists very subtly - the words are not violent but the thinking is. But I feel safe among Christians. I have never been threatened by a Christian, not even by the most intolerant.

Even the most intolerant Christian comes across much more loving than the most tolerant Muslim - strange but true.

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:17 pm
by iffo
Ozes wrote:
iffo wrote:
Ozes wrote:Iffo, Christianity doesn't allow you to kill any person, when Christians kill gays or adulturers they break the few rules actually given directly by God. You probably know this, but you got a job to do.
Christianity does not allow killing because you are not following your bible, if you follow bible the way you are suppose to you will be doing all sort of crazy things.

But I give credit to christians for not following the bible.
Thou shall not kill


Its not:
Thou shall not kill, except for..

That's Islam your talking about. I think the human mind is the problem when the clearest sign of commandment comes down and spefically tells people not to kill anyone regardless of reason, and people still misunderstand.

That is for murder, does not mean bible prohibit killing period. Bible god ordered women not having virginity on wedding night be stoned to death. There is killing all over bible ordered by god........ men/women/little babies even animals and trees.

I am glad christians do not follow bible.

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
by Ozes
Uh, no its for all killing. Christianity & Islam are completely different, Islam is different from all other religions because of the unique mindset of its writer. A rapist, massmurdering pedophile deviant, when such persons create religions, bad sh!t will happen.

Its difficult to see for a certain class... well, cult of people. Muhammed has no equal amongst serial killers, let alone amongst Prophets.

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:49 am
by iffo
Ozes wrote:Uh, no its for all killing. Christianity & Islam are completely different, Islam is different from all other religions because of the unique mindset of its writer. A rapist, massmurdering pedophile deviant, when such persons create religions, bad sh!t will happen.

Its difficult to see for a certain class... well, cult of people. Muhammed has no equal amongst serial killers, let alone amongst Prophets.
Perhaps in your changed version of christanity but not in real christanity if you go by bible. You either don't know much about your own religion or not been truthful. If quran is from rapist, bible is from psycho vampire as well.
What is the Biblical Penalty for Murder?

That brings me to my next question -- What is the biblical penalty for murder? Let's look at Genesis 9:5-6. God says to Noah and his family,

"And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; and at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth a man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

These verses are simply saying, murder is forbidden. Man-killing animals are to be killed and any person who murders another is to be killed. Killing a man is an offense against almighty God for man is made in God's image.

The verses makes it clear. Capital punishment, the taking of the perpetrators life, is what God demands for the murder of a human being by man or beast. There are some other specifics that the Lord laid out relating to capital punishment.

There must be two or more witnesses before one accused of murder can be put to death (Numbers 35:30)
A person judged guilty of murder must die. Do not allow any kind of bargain or ransom for his life. (Num. 35:30)
The blood of the victim murdered defiles the land. The only way it is cleansed is by administering capital punishment to the murderer. (Num. 35:33-34).

A Further Explanation of Murder

Naturally, the individual(s) who carries out the capital punishment for the lawful authority was not considered a murdered. Likewise, the killing of enemies in war is not considered murder. Additionally, killings judged accidental were not considered murder, though there may be other lesser penalties.
Capital Punishment and the Law Given to Moses

It should be noted that from Noah until the institution of the Law, the Bible only sanctioned capital punishment for murder. When God gave the law to Moses, additional things were considered capital crimes worthy of death. These include...

Hitting your parents -- Ex. 21:15
Kidnapping -- Ex 21:16
Cursing your father or mother -- Ex 21:17
Killing an unborn infant -- Ex 21:22-25 (There is some discussion about the interpretation of the passage. I believe it means if a woman has a miscarriage and the baby lives there can be lesser penalties. If the baby dies or the baby and the mother die the death penalty applies as the KJV & NIV translate the passage.
An animal that has the habit of injuring others and the owner does not destroy it -- Exodus 21:28-29
Witchcraft -- Ex. 22:18
Worship of other gods/goddesses -- Ex. 22:20
Working on the Sabbath -- Ex. 35:2
Adultery -- Lev. 20:10
Incest -- Lev. 20:11-12 & 14
Sodomy (homosexuality/lesbianism) -- Lev. 20:13
Bestiality -- Lev. 20:15-16
False prophesying -- Deut. 13:1-10
Rape under some circumstances -- Deut. 22:25


Their can be no doubt that the Old Testament teaches capital punishment. It began by demanding it for murder and expanded its application under the Law given to Moses. Therefore, the principle of capital punishment is well established.
http://logosresourcepages.org/OurTimes/capital.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



In Matthew 5:17 through 5:21, Jesus says this:


"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' (Matthew 5:17-21)

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:22 am
by survivor
iffo wrote:After lot of studying and research I have come to the conclusion at the moment that Islam is false. In fact I admit all the religions are men made bogus stories and are false.

I have nothing against most of my muslims brothers and sisters who have very little knowledge about their religion and Islamic history and as a human beings we all are programmed to resist anything said against what we and our forefathers always believed in.
Just got to read this thread today, and, I am so glad to have my long lost little bro iffo back in the fold of humanity that we all [ ex muslims and non-muslims] have accepted as the ultimate TRUTH. All the while, I knew there was an intellectual brain lurking behind as I read his previous posts. But, in the mean time, was also sceptical, as I saw him allowing islam cover his brain as an ugly black shroud of satan. Hope, he will never return to that state again,

I am sure of seeing such dramatic changes happen in brothers Ozes and SAM too, in the nearest future. We are waiting to greet you folks to the humanity....
Sincerely,
survivor.

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:40 pm
by ygalg
iffo you've been a long member here and a staunch muslim. what effect you?

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:43 pm
by iffo
ygalg wrote:iffo you've been a long member here and a staunch muslim. what effect you?
It was not an over night decision but a gradual one. I did lot of exploring and spent time in learning. It was the result of reading all the following and more + (Quran and hadits)that I came to conclusion that Muhammad was not a prophet and there fore Islam is a false religion.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9475&p=147377#p147377" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Muslim scholars confirm that Muhammad soon after getting power did attack / harass his neighboring tribes in which people died. He raided the caravans and he did marry Aisha when she was 9 to set a horrific example which caused lot of girls in last 1400 years to suffer because of him. His marrying of young beautiful enemy women in his custody after their husband got killed was no act of mercy but a brutal exploitation of helpless women. He should have adopted them as his daughters, that's what I would have done if I was of his age, even when I am not a saint myself. His killing of 400-900 jews like chickens was barbaric and not a act of a merciful prophet.

If quran is read from an un-biased stand point it in no way looks a book from the most intelligent god but rather a book with very little substance and one thing been repeated 100 times over and over again. With some backward, unjust, unpractical and barbaric rules and regulations.

Giving master the permission to have sex with women in his custody was the most pathetic thing one can imagine. Putting the most helpless / weak people at the mercy of her master. The confusing / unclear statements of quran do not look like work of a smart god. I can write a better far more clear and affective book in 50 pages.

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:16 pm
by sum
Hello iffo

Do you think that there are many other muslims who have doubts but dare not mention it? I appreciate that any answer will involve a fair bit of guesswork.

Do you think that websites such as FFI have any role in creating doubts in muslim minds regarding the claim that Muhammad was a prophet or that the Koran is the actual word of a god?

I would very much appreciate your comments.

sum

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:01 pm
by Eagle
iffo wrote:Muslim scholars confirm that Muhammad soon after getting power did attack / harass his neighboring tribes in which people died. He raided the caravans
The believers are never once told to go forth to battle because of war booty and in fact the Quran says that only those who sell this world's life for the hereafter are worthy of fighting in Allah's way for the defense of the helpless 4:74-5, neither is fighting for the propagation of Islam once mentionned in the whole of the Quran.
48:18-19 relate events that have passed and how Allah tranquilized the hearts of the believers among those who swore allegiance to the prophet, rewarded them with a victory soon after as well as war booty which they acquired consequently to the battle.
Then in 48:20 the Quran reminds of God's promise to the rest of the believers regarding war booty. It was His intent to give victory to the believers fighting in His way and reward them in this very world 8:17"and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself". However the Quran repeatedly warns the believers that wordly gains are not the objective of Jihad 4:94"when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace: You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life? But with Allah there are abundant gains". The Quran relates in 8:5-8 how Allah tested the believers' motives in battle in order to purge them from their greed; if they would run after the booty or stand firm with the prophet to defend Islam. When the aqcuisition of slaves became strictly restricted to the war campaigns after which they had to be freed, God warned the Muslims that during battle the motive must be the crushing of the enemy of Islam instead of capturing prisonners 8:67"you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise". The believers are then strongly admonished in 3:152 for their attitude during the battle of Uhud and them becoming "weak-hearted" for having "desired this world" after Allah "had shown you that which you loved" ie the booty. This shows that going to battle with the unique motive of wordly gains is not considered noble in God's eyes.
The Quran would therefore stir up the believers for battle based on the reality of their opression 4:75, that Allah's help will come at the battlfield 4:84, and that success in the Hereafter awaits those who fight or are slain in Allah's way 4:74. And although the believers are promised wordly gains as a result of their faith in God and His prophet, as a result of their personal sacrifices for the sake of their cause against all odds, the Quran stresses that these wordly gains must never be the true m otive.
Just as obeying a divine injuction to fight in Allah's way results in being rewarded in this world as well as the next 48:18-21, turning one's back to the enemy and refusing to fight in Allah's way makes a person 48:16,8:16"deserving of Allah's wrath" in this world as well as the next. History bares testimony to this fact with the example of the Israelites who had refused to put their trust in the prophet Musa to go forth and fight in Allah's way. Their wordly reward was consequently taken away and they were forbidden entry into the blessed land and sent to wander 40 years in the desert until the last one of those who had shown cowardice was dead and a new generation raised instead. See the Quran in 2:243,5:21-26 as well as the OT in Numbers13:28-33,14:1-35 and Deut2:7,14.
The Muslims are warned that the same fate awaits those who turn their backs to the prophet when they are called to struggle in Allah's way 9:38-39"If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things". The Believers should rejoice at the opportunity of serving God's cause but what God wishes to accomplish isnt really dependent on them for He could easily uproot them in case of disobedience and rise another people instead. However, those who followed the prophet Muhammad in times of peace and war are the opposite example. Contrary to the majority of Israelites in Moses' time who refused to march forth despite witnessing all kinds of divine miracles, the majority of Muhammad's followers fought when ordered to. Because of all their sacrifices and because they went forth when they were commanded to, they were made successors in the land 6:133-134 and they earned Allah's rewards in this world as well as, God wills, in the next.
In addition, the Muslims are commanded not to neglect the obligatory prayers, even when facing the enemy at the battlefield 4:101-3. This shows the true objective of these warriors fighting to free themselves and their people from religious bondage; fighting was not their primary occupation for when the time of holding the timed and ordained communion with their Lord arrived, they performed their spiritual obligations despite the imminent danger.

As regards to the division of spoils. Muslims were given the right to capture as war booty all things brought to the battelfield by their aggressors, including the fighters themselves whose enslavement was a form of divine punishement as well as mercy for during captivity they had to be treated with the utmost care thus seeing the reality and justice of Islam after which they could reform themselves, change attitude towards Islam and be freed 8:67-71. Besides their weapons and other military equipement, waring Arab tribes would often go as far as bring their women and slaves to the battlefield in order to galvanize themselves and do their utmost not to retreat or lose a battle, for their defeat would make them lose their possessions and even worse yet their own women. This is not a command to plunder their enemies and kill their innocent family members as the Israelites are alleged to have done through Divine sanction Deut3:6-7,21:1-18 but to seize whatever is left behind by the aggressor on the battlefield.
The Quran legislates and divides the posessions of the enemy that fall into Muslim hands into 2 groups. Those acquired directly from warfare, called ghanima that are to be split into 1/5th for 8:41"Allah and for the Messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer". The remaining 4/5th would be redistributed to those who actively took part in the war effort as obviously they were not otherwise paid for their services, although there is no order to this effect in the Quran itself. Since the State was not yet fully formed, that there was no treasury with a military budget and that the Muslims, for the sake of their own survival, were required to carry their military duties on the basis of voluntary gifts, so they were allowed a share in war acquisitions 8:60"and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly".
The second group is the booty acquired without fighting (such as the surrender of an enemy) called fay (from anfa'a, He restored). Since this category of spoils is obtained without fighting, the warriors had no share in it. The fay fall entirely under the control of "God and the Messenger", ie the State in order for it to be redistributed exclusively to those in need, and avoid it falling between the hands of those who can sustain themselves 59:7"so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich" and for the general welfare of the community 59:7"the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer..the poor who fled their homes and their possessions".
It is to be noted that in both cases, the prophet's share is put in the same group as that of the weak people of society meaning he never had a share exclusively for his own person. The dispute that followed the prophet's death over the gardens of Fadak, which were fay, between Fatima the prophet's daughter who claimed the inheritance and Abu Bakr the Caliph who wanted the property to be primarly redistributed to the needy as the prophet did in his lifetime, is testimony to this fact. The hadith and the Quran itself testify to the rigorous lifestyle of the prophet, and his household's complaints that ensued.
iffo wrote:and he did marry Aisha when she was 9
Besides a simple study of the transmission chain proving the weakness of such reports, what you and those other disbelievers you've been dwelling with for a while on this site need to come to grip with is that it is well documented that Aisha was born in Jahilliya, meaning there is no way possible she could have been less than 13 years old at the time of hijra as some ahadith suggest. She was previously engaged then divorced before her union with the prophet, to a vehement enemy of the prophet meaning she would have been 4 or less prior to her alleged engagement to the prophet at 6. Further, she clearly relates herself as having an active role in getting the travelling goods together in such a highly tense situation per the narrations, meaning there is no way possible a 9 year old girl could have been acting in such a way. This is precisely why some scholars, and people will question their validity of being a scholar without basis, argue she was probably around 18. Public criticism, according to the tradition, was laid at Umar for his trying to marry Fatima, because she was young and Umar was old, almost the same age difference between the Prophet and Aisha. In fact, the traditions record that this was one of the objections of Ali for the union and public criticism had gotten to the point Umar had to defend himself for the move in public. Umar made the point that he only wanted to marry her to affirm his ties with the House of the Prophet. Umar didn't use the precedent of the Prophet marrying Aisha at an alleged young age. Also, if it was a norm of Arab culture, then why would he draw the criticism of the city of Medina for such an act?
iffo wrote:His marrying of young beautiful enemy women in his custody after their husband got killed was no act of mercy but a brutal exploitation of helpless women.
Those (2 women) you are referring to were freed then married so which brutality you and those with you are speaking about. Anyone familiar with the Quran knows that marriage can never be forced, neither sex between husband and wife. Anyone even superficially knowledgable with the Holy Book, knows that the wife can demand the divorce if she feels opressed and unhappy
iffo wrote:His killing of 400-900 jews like chickens was barbaric and not a act of a merciful prophet
Prophets execute God's will on Earth and it is actually one of the mark of a prophet's truthfulness that destruction befalls those who oppose him, that he and the followers are established in the land instead of the disbelievers conditionally on their righteousness. These traitors of Bani Qurayza who had not only NOT stood by their covenant of defending Medina against foreign invasion but had also sided with the ennemy that their own prophets fought in the OT, and even attempted to attack the fortress where Muslim women and children had been lodged for safety were rightfully besieged for 25 days without fighting until they surrendered after they realized that they were going to lose the battle and that the pagans with whom they were allied will not come to their help, i.e. because they had to. They didnt surrender out of any change of heart 3:111"They shall by no means harm you but with a slight evil; and if they fight with you they shall turn (their) backs to you, then shall they not be helped". Thus the parable of the 2 sons of Adam was repeating itself 5:27-31. It was recited to the Children of Israel as a warning not to reject and kill their brothers, the sons of Ismail, out of envy and aversion because of a prophet having being raised outside their line or it would only harm their own souls and create a situation where they will be thrown into intense remorse and regret. The Israelites plotted against the Ishmaelite prophet for the same reason for which the erring son of Adam had slain his pious brother. They could not see the obvious fact that God withdrew His favor from them and bestowed it upon their more God-counscious brothers, just as Cain's offering was refused for lack of piety while that of the God-fearing Abel was accepted. Instead of considering the matter, they plotted to kill those whom God had blessed with His favors.

Muhammad allowed them to choose their own arbitrator. That arbitrator was one of their allies that they thought would actually save them from their impending punishment but the Awsite Sa'd ibn Mu'adh who they promised to willingly accept his decision thinking he would show them any leniency, judged them according to their law in regards to the land of Canaan, which is death of all fighting men, enslavement of women and children and confiscation of their livestock Deut20:10-15. He imposed this judgement just before the wound which he had suffered in his arm during the battle suddenly opened and the blood continued to gush out until he died. All fighting Jewish men were slain, the women and children taken as captives, their lands distributed to the Muslims immigrating to Medina and their wealth shared among all Muslims with one-fifth for public purposes. Bani Israel were thus once again destroyed through divine punishment for their treachery and transgression, as it happened to them twice before and as prophecied will happen again and again up to the Day of Resurrection if they return to disobedience 17:4-8,7:167. Abasement and humiliation was made to cleave on them wherever they went 3:112 as in the days of Moses when they refused to follow him and enter the Holy Land 2:61. They were once again engulfed by the divine curse and wrath and whenever they kindled a fire for war after that, Allah put it out 33:26"And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part. And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property".

The prophet was at war for over 13 years with various tribes, including other Jews than Bani Qurayza. If he was a war lord that loved blood as you and your people enjoy to claim by raising this incident, then it would be easy to provide evidence for this lust for be-heading and decapitating to establish a precedent. Banu Quayza wasn't the only tribe nor did Kinan represent all the Jews. In fact, it is well documented that Jews continued to live in that region, only to be expelled many years after the Prophet died, by Umar. They were shifted to other regions and given paid settlements.
iffo wrote:Giving master the permission to have sex with women in his custody
Go there viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11057&start=0#p167384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: I declare Islam to be false

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:51 am
by iffo
eagle I will get back to you.