I declare Islam to be false

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

pr126 wrote:Demand, SAM? Demand?

This is an Internet forum. You cannot demand anything here.
You can ask, but nobody is owing you an answer.
You still owe me an answer "Who's real GOD? :drool:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

Eagle wrote:Good job SAM. Keeping making them turn in circles and bumping into each other.

Whenever their itch comes back about the supposed caravan raids, the battle of Badr, the reasons why the prophets Muhammad and Moses fought battles and how the spoils were divided tell these ignorant people to go there viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10956&start=60#p167760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and there viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10956&p=168080#p168080" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, if they speak of Quran allegedly ordering the killing of apostates send them there viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10956&start=100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if they try something about alleged pedophilia in Quran or Aisha's case tell them to go there viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10875&start=20#p168362" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. If they bring up the issues of slavery and polygamy they can also click there viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11057&start=0#p167384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and there viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11057&start=0#p167385" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This thread is dead without Muslim here. They will start bashing,arguing, bumping etc each other's...
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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pr126
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by pr126 »

SAM wrote:
pr126 wrote:Demand, SAM? Demand?

This is an Internet forum. You cannot demand anything here.
You can ask, but nobody is owing you an answer.
You still owe me an answer "Who's real GOD? :drool:
I owe you nothing, SAM. I can ignore you at will.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

Ram wrote: SAM, you are speaking with a forked tongue like a snake. You spoke like a True Muslim. You are a hypocrite.

You say that Muslims should be free to leave Islam but in the next sentence you try to justify the killing of apostates.

What makes you think that a Muslim who leaves Islam is worse than non-Muslims?

Let us talk about iffo. Mr. iffo left Islam after coming to the realization that Islam is false. Does it make him bad?

You say that Pakistan is the worst Muslim country. But there is no law in Pakistan which mandates killing of Muslim apostates but in Iran and Saudi Arabia it is the law which says that apostates must be killed. But you think that Iran and Saudi Arabia are better than Pakistan. I do not understand your Islamic logic.

I am not saying that Pakistan is a good country, but Iran and Saudi Arabia are equally bad.

Are you saying that families are justified if they kill their apostate family members? The point is not who kills the apostates. The point is that they are killed. That is why we believe that Muslims are intolerant.

Your point underlined above shows that you have no common sense. If it is OK for Muslim to convert to other religion, why do you say that he is worse than a non- Muslim?

What is the difference between the one who leaves Islam and one who converts to Islam? Please educate about your Islamic logic.
You have to found out yourself...
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

skynightblaze wrote:If the angels were fighting in the battle and if they could kill the enemy in a blink of an eye the entire army of pagans should have been killed and not just 70.

Eagle wrote:It was answered well and will be reworded one more time in elementary terms to solve your grasping difficulties. The angels' purpose was to assist the Believers
physically and motivate them as well. Knowing you have a massive firepower right behind you that could obliterate your adversary in the blink of an eye will make you engage the enemy ferociously. This is what happenned at the battlefield. The Meccans received a first round knock out blow that resulted in the death of 70 among the cream of the Quraysh elite and 70 were made prisonners. The rest of the enemy coalition was overwhelmed at seeing this, so they retreated without the Believers having to resort to their full firepower.
skynightblaze wrote:Angels were supernatural beings and hence they could have easily traced the retreating enemy and have them killed
The purpose isnt extermination, but warning. Its called mercy, and a chance at mending their ways after seeing the prophecy they were warned about turn out true

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pr126
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by pr126 »

Eagle wrote:
The purpose isnt extermination, but warning. Its called mercy, and a chance at mending their ways after seeing the prophecy they were warned about turn out true
Oh yes. Muhammad was but a warner. We all know that.
Allah is merciful. Oh yeah! :worthy:
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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marduk
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by marduk »

What was Muhammad warning us about? That if we worshiped some god aside from the one made up by the Jews that bad things would happen to us? That warning might concern us, if it had one shred of evidence to support it as being anything other than the ravings of a madman. Show us the evidence and maybe we'll heed the warning. Go ahead, SAM and Eagle. Why should we believe Muhammad's warning over that of L.Ron Hubbard, who warned us that if we worship anything other than the aliens we will be vaporized by their death ray? Sounds more realistic to me. Aliens are way scarier than the Jew god. I'm a lot more worried about their threats than Allah's. Allah won't torture me until after I'm dead. The aliens will do it while I'm still alive. The aliens want to establish a worldwide totalitarian government. Do the Arabs have a problem with that? Why? Rule 1 is that everybody has to go back to living in caves. Any problem with living like we did in the ancient past, Arabs? They also have a rule that men are only worth half what women are and men have to cover their entire bodies at all times, including their eyes. Any problem with that?

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

The simplest criterion of prophethood is that nations being punished for fighting and opposing their Messengers was a well-known Semitic tradition. Muhammad rises up and says to his tribe that they will meet a similar fate, they oppose the message and prevent the people from it and get punished by the sword. End of the matter. Show me one more person after him who has done such a feat:

1) comes from a common background yet claims to be a Messenger, in fact the Final Messenger of God
2) warns his people of Divine chastisement
3) the chastisement comes home to roost and the partisans of the Prophet are established in the land

This is the exact same process that occurred with the Bani Israil in the time of Moses, with the drowning of the host of Pharaoh and the deliverance of the Israelites, with the uprooting of the Canaanites and the establishement of the way of God. Not to mention, the Quranic invitation to the Arabs to see or recall for themselves the fate of the deniers of Nuh, Lut, Shuayb, Hud... It is a Book of Warning that has already delivered its judgment in this world.

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Centaur
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Centaur »

well he is not from the same background, but an arab Bedouin. Even if discard his background show me a single a prophet of the so called background being a sex manic or paedophile or caravan raider.
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skynightblaze
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by skynightblaze »

Eagle wrote:It was answered well and will be reworded one more time in elementary terms to solve your grasping difficulties. The angels' purpose was to assist the Believers
physically and motivate them as well. Knowing you have a massive firepower right behind you that could obliterate your adversary in the blink of an eye will make you engage the enemy ferociously. This is what happenned at the battlefield. The Meccans received a first round knock out blow that resulted in the death of 70 among the cream of the Quraysh elite and 70 were made prisonners. The rest of the enemy coalition was overwhelmed at seeing this, so they retreated without the Believers having to resort to their full firepower.
Actually I should have focused properly on what you had written in the first place. I did not and therefore you had to repeat.

First of all Where do islamic scriptures say that full power of army of angels was not utilized? No where do we read this as far as I know. Just show me where you find this that the full power of army of angels was not utilized.

Quran even goes on to say that if 1000 angels are not sufficient then it will send 3000 or 5000 if required. SO clearly the aim was to make all the 1000 angels sent fight in the war and if required send more.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:Angels were supernatural beings and hence they could have easily traced the retreating enemy and have them killed
The purpose isnt extermination, but warning. Its called mercy, and a chance at mending their ways after seeing the prophecy they were warned about turn out true
[/quote]


There is huge problem with this explanation. If Allah was all knowing then Allah would have known that the pagans would not mend their ways because these same people fought with muslims at the battle of Uhud. Looks like Allah made a mistake of thinking that they these people will mend their ways and therefore Allah cannot be all knowing God. :D

If you claim that Allah knew beforehand that these people are not going mend their ways then we have even more horrible problem for you.It so happened that these same people later waged war against muslims at Uhud which the muslims lost and hence what sense does it make for Allah to leave them without exterminating them unless Allah is on the infidel side? :lol:

This means that Allah deceived muslims by giving them a temporary victory only to have them defeated later by the same men at Uhud. So whose side was Allah exactly? :lol:
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

yeezevee
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by yeezevee »

skynightblaze wrote: .............

This means that Allah deceived muslims by giving them a temporary victory only to have them defeated later by the same men at Uhud. So whose side was Allah exactly? :lol:
Muhammad's side..Muslim side.. Islamic side., If infidels defeated Muslims at later times means, Those Muslims were not following the rules of Allah that were prescribed to win the battles. But it is a temporary victory for infidels...

Any fellow, Muslim or non-Muslim who can defend Muhammad's marriage with his adopted son's wife because of the words he/she seen in Quran means, such people can defend Muhammad and his Islam irrespective of any criminal nature of t Muhammad's actions. After all it is NOT Muhammad who is responsible for his criminal actions but Allah. All knowing all powerful omini potato in the sky knowing well a guy will turn out as criminal crated him. Hence you infidels blame allah not messenger..

frankie
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:The simplest criterion of prophethood is that nations being punished for fighting and opposing their Messengers was a well-known Semitic tradition. Muhammad rises up and says to his tribe that they will meet a similar fate, they oppose the message and prevent the people from it and get punished by the sword. End of the matter. Show me one more person after him who has done such a feat:

1) comes from a common background yet claims to be a Messenger, in fact the Final Messenger of God
2) warns his people of Divine chastisement
3) the chastisement comes home to roost and the partisans of the Prophet are established in the land

This is the exact same process that occurred with the Bani Israil in the time of Moses, with the drowning of the host of Pharaoh and the deliverance of the Israelites, with the uprooting of the Canaanites and the establishement of the way of God. Not to mention, the Quranic invitation to the Arabs to see or recall for themselves the fate of the deniers of Nuh, Lut, Shuayb, Hud... It is a Book of Warning that has already delivered its judgment in this world.
Eagle:
I have had no response to my post copied below.In this post I state that whatever Moses may have done at Yahweh's command does not mean that his actions have to be taken as an example for humanity to follow for all times and places,they were only seen in an historical context.

Mohammed did not meet all the criteria for being a prophet of Yahweh.He was not from Hebrew lineage,he did not advocate,and action Yahweh's rules and regulations,and he did not perform miracles.

I would appreciate then,a response from you,seeing from your other posts,you are more than capable at providing informative answers.



You claim Bukhari Book 52 “Fighting in the way of Allah(Jihad)” does not show how Muslims are to emulate their prophet, and” He is obeyed and emulated in his obedience to the Book of God”

Where in this book of God, presumably the Quran, does it give Muslims the way to emulate Mohammed? As far as I am aware, the ahaddiths do this, especially Bukhari, being one of the most reliable?The Quran only states Muslims are given Mohammed as the best example.

Mohammed is shown to be an Arabian war lord,who claimed victory for his Allah,by the sword,the best deed for any Muslim is to conquer all lands for Allah,until Islam is proclaimed over all religion.
I ask the question again,how did Mohammed do this,and how are his followers to do the same?As by way of an example,how did Islam expand in Mohammed time,and after,throughout the Arabian Peninsular and beyond?


You said:
“To fight those who originally fight and aggress us as is made clear in the context”
This is not factual.
9:29 clearly states that unbelievers in Allah,the last day and his messenger, should be fought against. Given that these are Allah’s literal words, it follows that they are not in any sort of context as you claim, but for all times and places (for the guidance of mankind?)

You say I am ignorant of what Jesus taught?
What according to you did Jesus teach, and where do you refer to,to make this claim?

If you cannot support your claim that “It follows Jesus was a false prophet.”It stands as written in the Gospel, that Jesus is a true prophet of Yahweh, who confirmed his prophet hood by performing miracles, unlike Mohammed, who did not, clearly showing that Mohammed was the false prophet, not Jesus.

You claim Jesus guided his followers in a different way to Moses and Mohammed.

Moses actioned Yahweh’s commands defensively, not offensively, and Moses’ actions are not to be taken as a guidance for mankind to follow for all times and places.

However, the Law given to Moses by Yahweh, ARE to be taken as a guidance for mankind to follow for all times and places, these Laws are based on the Golden Rule,i.e to love your neighbour as yourself, which are not in accordance with Allah’s rules and regulations (Sharia) which states that unbelievers are to be fought against, and made to pay a penalty tax, under duress.

This Law given to Moses,is confirmed in the Quran,as is the Gospel.Surah 5:46,47 & 48.

Jesus spoke to his followers in parables,saying “I am the way,the truth and the life,no on one goes to the Father except by me. Now that you have known me, you will know my Father also.Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.John 14.6:10


The Gospel confirms that Jesus is the Son of God, but the Quran contradicts this saying God has no Son. Allah is contradicting his previous prophet,Jesus in his words and actions.

All this information shows clearly, the origins of the Gospel and Quran are from two different sources.

The god of Islam is not the same as the God of the Bible, and never has been

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skynightblaze
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by skynightblaze »

yeezevee wrote:
skynightblaze wrote: .............

This means that Allah deceived muslims by giving them a temporary victory only to have them defeated later by the same men at Uhud. So whose side was Allah exactly? :lol:
Muhammad's side..Muslim side.. Islamic side., If infidels defeated Muslims at later times means, Those Muslims were not following the rules of Allah that were prescribed to win the battles. But it is a temporary victory for infidels...
We can expect that answer but it will not make any sense because if the final victory was to be granted to disbelievers then why waste time by giving disbelievers even a temporary victory?

Secondly, At the battle of Uhud , plenty of muslims were killed so if Allah had exterminated all these pagans at the battle of Badr then death of many muslims could have been avoided that happened at the battle of Uhud. This would mean Allah was a psychopath who did not even bother to save people who bend their arse 5 times a day and fought so hard for him and his messenger even when he could have easily done that.

Yeezevee wrote: Any fellow, Muslim or non-Muslim who can defend Muhammad's marriage with his adopted son's wife because of the words he/she seen in Quran means, such people can defend Muhammad and his Islam irrespective of any criminal nature of t Muhammad's actions. After all it is NOT Muhammad who is responsible for his criminal actions but Allah. All knowing all powerful omini potato in the sky knowing well a guy will turn out as criminal crated him. Hence you infidels blame allah not messenger..
True. Really you cant blame the muslims when you see the non muslims also accepting such gibberish.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

One more time for you:
skynightblaze wrote:Where do islamic scriptures say that full power of army of angels was not utilized?
Where does it say the contrary. The fact they were left to retreat shows not all force was used, only a fraction and it was enough to defeat them and make them see the realization of the prophecy. Now they had the proof the prophet Muhammad was speaking the truth and had the occasion to reconsider their position. Some did, others didnt and were either killed in the following battles or finally joined the ranks of Islam.
skynightblaze wrote:Quran even goes on to say that if 1000 angels are not sufficient then it will send 3000 or 5000 if required.
No
skynightblaze wrote:If Allah was all knowing then Allah would have known that the pagans would not mend their ways because these same people fought with muslims at the battle of Uhud.
Of course God knows what any person will be doing at some time in the future. Same for the Meccans who retreated. Its an opportunity to mend their ways, not a compulsion and eachone will be given that opportunity regardless of God's forknowledge. In fact the vast majority of them ended up accepting Islam. This shows they still had elements of saneness in them and had God destroyed them, they would never had this opportunity. This is why God states eachone has a time of respite that can neither be delayed nor hastened
skynightblaze wrote:So whose side was Allah exactly?
The side of Truth, even if it means the deserved defeat of the Believers because of having submitted for their materialistic desires in the battle of Uhud, something for which the Quran heavily reprimanded them viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10956&start=60#p167760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. They are clearly told divine assistance is contingent on God-consciousness, of which they lacked at Uhud. In fact their defeat was the proof that their previous victory, where they had been God-conscious and thus deserving of divine assistance, had nothing to do with their own selves, and came from somewhere else
Last edited by Eagle on Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:47 am, edited 6 times in total.

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

frankie wrote:I have had no response to my post copied below
It doesnt deserve any, due to extreme shallow knowledge of the Bible of which some examples below are an example:
frankie wrote:Moses actioned Yahweh’s commands defensively, not offensively
and
frankie wrote:these Laws are based on the Golden Rule,i.e to love your neighbour as yourself
and
frankie wrote:This Law given to Moses,is confirmed in the Quran,as is the Gospel.Surah 5:46,47 & 48.

frankie
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:
frankie wrote:I have had no response to my post copied below
It doesnt deserve any, due to extreme shallow knowledge of the Bible of which some examples below are an example:
frankie wrote:Moses actioned Yahweh’s commands defensively, not offensively
and
frankie wrote:these Laws are based on the Golden Rule,i.e to love your neighbour as yourself
and
frankie wrote:This Law given to Moses,is confirmed in the Quran,as is the Gospel.Surah 5:46,47 & 48.
Eagle:
Please point out where I am in error.

The Quran I use by Abdullah Yusuf Ali most definately claims the Law given to Moses was guidence and light,Surah 5:44
Jesus confimed the Law that had come before him,the Gospel with guidence and lightSurah 5:46
Surah5:48 Allah confirms the Scripture in truth,confirming the scripture that came before it,and guarding it in safety.

But Allah commands Muslims to fight the people that follow this Scripture in truth,i.e Jews and Chrstians,plus all others who do not believe in him or his messenger, Mohammed.

These particular verses are not in accordance with the rest of Quranic commands, to fight those who do not believe in Allah or his messenger Mohammed.

Why would Allah,said to be the same god of the Christians,order his followers to fight between themselves?

Does'nt make sense to me,does it to you?

Look forward to a reply.

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pr126
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by pr126 »

Allah is not the god of the Christians or Jews, never was.

Allah started his career as a stone idol in the Kaaba, among 360 other stone idols.
Muhammad broke all the stone idols, except one, Allah, which he then promoted to be the lord of the universe.
Muhammad's father, a pagan was called Abdallah, slave of Allah, the moon god stone idol.

Oddly enough, all the Arab pagan rituals are still performed today by Muslims, as it was a custom hundreds of years before Muhammad was born.

Was Allah The Moon God of Ancient Arab Pagan?
In Islam many rituals performed (today) by devoted Muslims in the name of Allah are connected to the pagan worship that existed before Islam. Pagans practices of the Pilgrimage of Kabah once a year--the Fast of Ramadan, running around the Kabah seven times, kissing the black stone, shaving the head, animal sacrifices, running up and down two hills, throwing stones at the devil, snorting water in and out the nose, praying several times a day toward Mecca, giving alms, Friday prayers, etc. are strictly followed by Muslims today. Nobody can deny the fact that, all the above rituals of Muslim’s hajj today—existed well before the arrival of Islam.
The question nobody asks, that if Allah was the god of the Jews and the Christians, why is there no trace of any of these rituals in the Jewish or Christian scriptures or in their customs?
The Jewish prophets are described as Muslims in Islam, but they had no knowledge of any of the Arab pagan rituals. Why is that?

.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

Ram
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Ram »

SAM wrote:
Ram wrote: SAM, you are speaking with a forked tongue like a snake. You spoke like a True Muslim. You are a hypocrite.

You say that Muslims should be free to leave Islam but in the next sentence you try to justify the killing of apostates.

What makes you think that a Muslim who leaves Islam is worse than non-Muslims?

Let us talk about iffo. Mr. iffo left Islam after coming to the realization that Islam is false. Does it make him bad?

You say that Pakistan is the worst Muslim country. But there is no law in Pakistan which mandates killing of Muslim apostates but in Iran and Saudi Arabia it is the law which says that apostates must be killed. But you think that Iran and Saudi Arabia are better than Pakistan. I do not understand your Islamic logic.

I am not saying that Pakistan is a good country, but Iran and Saudi Arabia are equally bad.

Are you saying that families are justified if they kill their apostate family members? The point is not who kills the apostates. The point is that they are killed. That is why we believe that Muslims are intolerant.

Your point underlined above shows that you have no common sense. If it is OK for Muslim to convert to other religion, why do you say that he is worse than a non- Muslim?

What is the difference between the one who leaves Islam and one who converts to Islam? Please educate about your Islamic logic.
You have to found out yourself...
Mr. SAM, you are a cop out. I already found the truth about Islam, it is in your books. The proof of what I say, can be found in every Muslim country.

The way you talk, it looks like it is you who has to find the truth. Look in your Quran, the answer is there.

It is obvious that you don't want to answer my questions, for the simple reason, you yourself do not like what you do find when you really think about the answers.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.

sum
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by sum »

Hello Ram

You will never get much sense out of SAM. I have known him in the forum for a few years and I never got any sense out of him. He is so far away with the mixer that it would not be unreasonable to call him a troll. He is an excellent example of an Islamically programmed mind. He is unreachable.

His upbringing has damaged him.

sum

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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Quran is a big book and written in a very screwy confusing fashion.while reading one loose interest and focus that's how Muslims while reading it miss many Of its foolish stuff while reading it.
It's style and length runs in its favor.

The whole idea that a man comes and say I am the messanger listen to me is dumb. God expecting people to believe him is a stupid god, he should know better that people will not just believe him. In case of Muhammad who did not even show them any miracle or any other proof. On top of it this god is so crazy that he gets upset at them for nOt believing and will give them one of the most cruel punishments. That god is crazy that he will torture them which even evil people like Hitler or Sadamm will not do, they will not burn animals alive and then grow their skin and burn them again over and over, put boiling water in their mouths. That's is one crazy wicked god unworthy of any respect .

And what about people born hundred of years after him,they have not even seen the guy so why are they expected to believe him. Whole thing is just crazy.

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