I declare Islam to be false

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

enceladus wrote:
Ahh. "Right can make a wrong, and wrong can make a right."
And also - I suppose - black can be white, and 2 + 2 can be 7.

Sheesh. What a mishmash of stuff! I feel sorry for you, SAM, I really do.
Micheal Jackson lyrics
And I Told About Equality
An It's True
Either You're Wrong
Or You're Right

It Doesn't Matter If You're
Black Or White

Ooh, Ooh
Yea, Yea, Yea Now

It's Black, It's White
It's Tough For You
To Get By
It's Black , It's White, Whoo
Caught up in the belief that "if Mohammad did it, it must be "right". Never mind about any objective measure of right or wrong - the killing of completely innocent people, for example, just because they weren't Muslim.
How do you justify...the people of Quraishite humiliated, tortured and killed Muslims at every opportunity for so many years...

The Quraish and the descendants of the Ansar still around, today..and they have no objection about what happened during The Battle of Badr...
It seems that if you're Muslim, you can justify absolutely ANYTHING - no matter how evil, no matter how much pain or suffering it causes.

"Oh, it was done by Muslims, so it must be "right"..... "
It depend upon their causes...to be an important part.
A question for you - do you believe that there can be a completely universal definition of "right" and wrong"? Let me give an example for "wrong" (it's easier).

"Wrong" - The killing of innocent people who are not harming anyone else and are going about their daily business.

Do you believe in that definition of "wrong"?
- enceladus
Depends on motivation...."right and "wrong"
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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skynightblaze
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by skynightblaze »

Eagle wrote:
Spoiler! :
From there viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10956&p=168080#p168080" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eagle wrote:The Muslims set to meet the polytheists with 313 fighters, 2 horses and 70 camels. In a vision to the prophet, Allah made the future adversaries of the Muslims look few in numbers because had He shown them as they truly were 8:43"you would certainly have become weak-hearted and you would have disputed about the matter". In that prophetic vision, the prophet saw what would occur at the battlefield, namely the fact that the ill-equiped and outnumbered Muslims will be assisted by angels whose number will be proportionate to the believers' degree of patience and God-consciousness, "pouring down" from Heaven, thousand after thousand in succession/murdifin exactly like an orderly army being sent section after section in waves 3:123-5,8:9. The number of angels was meant, not to answer a logistical necessity, but as a means of uplifting them psychologically and motivate them in the face of the overwhelming power they were about to face, and victory is ultimately from Allah alone Who could have exacted divine retribution on a nation of rejecters through other means as He amply did in the past, instead of having recourse to the angels or the believers as has been decreed with Muhammad and Moses 47:4,8:9"When you sought aid from your Lord, so He answered you: I will assist you with a thousand of the angels following one another. And Allah only gave it as a good news and that your hearts might be at ease thereby; and victory is only from Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise". As the vision was communicated to the believers 3:123-4,8:10 it impacted them greatly by making them 8:12"firm" in their resolve which in turn had the effect of casting "terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve". Such terror was due to their instant psychological defeat at seeing those whom they knew were helpless and weak engage them with such ferocity and resolve, consequently seeing the believers 3:13"twice as many". When the parties firstly met, the Muslims who were convinced that the heavenly hosts were on their side saw the coalition of disbelievers as few despite clearly outnumbering them in manpower and equipment, and the disbelievers' first impression upon seeing the Muslims was their little number due to their physical appearance 8:44. This emboldenned both parties to engage in battle; the few Muslims and the angels on their sides against the large coalition of disbelievers with evil forces on their side whispering their suggestions to incite them further 8:48. It was so 8:44"in order that Allah might bring about a matter which was to be done" which was to make that battle a 8:41"day of distinction", making it a landmark and a criterion for the believers as well as the disbelievers and a concrete proof of the truthfulness of Muhammad's years of prophetic warnings.
The Muslim warriors and the unseen angels on their sides began to slay and capture the rejecters of faith, while the shaitan 8:48"turned upon his heels, and said: Surely I am clear of you, surely I see what you do not see, surely I fear Allah; and Allah is severe in requiting (evil)". 70 disbelievers were killed and 70 made prisoners. 8:54"In the manner of the people of Firon and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust".
[/quote]

Your post does not answer the question being asked.
You yourself acknowledged that angels did participate in the battle and therefore my question remains unanswered. How could 1,300 odd army consisting of thousands of super natural beings manage only to kill 70 pagans? Even humans can do better than that . That leaves us with a conclusion that no angels were send and therefore Muhammad was merely lying to make people fight.

If you claim that role of angels was to actually help the muslims to fight the enemy morally and not actually kill the disbelievers and win the war for muslims as per 8:10 then I pity the author of quran for his wisdom. Chapter 8 was revealed before chapter 3 . In such a case how will anyone be encouraged by verses 3:124-125 which came after 8:10 ?? I mean ,If I know before hand that angels have been merely sent to boost my morale and not to help me win the war then would my morale be really boosted when verses 3:124-125 are revealed??? 3:124-125 promise believers that more angels will help them in striking the enemy. How will anyone will be encouraged by 3:124-125 especially when Allah has said in 8:10 that angels are not going to help muslims win the war?
Last edited by skynightblaze on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

skynightblaze wrote:Your post does not answer the question being asked.
It was answered well and will be reworded one more time in elementary terms to solve your grasping difficulties. The angels' purpose was to assist the Believers physically and motivate them as well. Knowing you have a massive firepower right behind you that could obliterate your adversary in the blink of an eye will make you engage the enemy ferociously. This is what happenned at the battlefield. The Meccans received a first round knock out blow that resulted in the death of 70 among the cream of the Quraysh elite and 70 were made prisonners. The rest of the enemy coalition was overwhelmed at seeing this, so they retreated without the Believers having to resort to their full firepower.
skynightblaze wrote:Chapter 8 was revealed before chapter 3 . In such a case how will anyone be encouraged by verses 3:124-125 which came after 8:10 ??
Start at 3:123. It is the reminder of a past event

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Centaur
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Centaur »

sex maniac paedophile got the firepower of the angels in his quest to loot a tradee caravan :lol:
by the way is there any independent confirmation of numbers on both side took part, just wonder who counted them.
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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

Centaur wrote:sex maniac paedophile got the firepower of the angels in his quest to loot a tradee caravan :lol:
by the way is there any independent confirmation of numbers on both side took part, just wonder who counted them.
I wondering how come you people asking such stupid questions sometimes?

:nono:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Sam says that there is no right or wrong it just depends on your motive.
Very dangerous mentality. Explain what islam does to human brain of even educated people.

SaM why you so lost?

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

iffo wrote:Sam says that there is no right or wrong it just depends on your motive.
Very dangerous mentality. Explain what islam does to human brain of even educated people.

SaM why you so lost?
Do you see yourself in the mirror as others see you..

.Yohan asked you..

iffo, When did you start turning against Islam? You were a big defender of Islam, just recently. 

What made you to make this about face change?

You didn't answer him.. 

Who is the loser? You or me..
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

sum
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by sum »

Hello SAM

You and Islam are the losers. It is people like you and uncung who demonstrate to the public what Islam does to the brain. Your minds are not as they should be.

sum

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skynightblaze
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by skynightblaze »

Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:Your post does not answer the question being asked.
It was answered well and will be reworded one more time in elementary terms to solve your grasping difficulties. The angels' purpose was to assist the Believers physically and motivate them as well. Knowing you have a massive firepower right behind you that could obliterate your adversary in the blink of an eye will make you engage the enemy ferociously. This is what happenned at the battlefield. The Meccans received a first round knock out blow that resulted in the death of 70 among the cream of the Quraysh elite and 70 were made prisonners. The rest of the enemy coalition was overwhelmed at seeing this, so they retreated without the Believers having to resort to their full firepower.
skynightblaze wrote:Chapter 8 was revealed before chapter 3 . In such a case how will anyone be encouraged by verses 3:124-125 which came after 8:10 ??
Start at 3:123. It is the reminder of a past event
Ibn Kathir wrote: Verily! Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise) We say that the one thousand mentioned here does not contradict the three thousand mentioned in the above Ayah ﴿3:124﴾. The word "in succession'' means they follow each other and thus indicates that thousands more will follow them. The two Ayat above ﴿8:9 and 3:124﴾ are similar in meaning and it appears that they both were about the battle of Badr, because the angels did fight in the battle of Badr, as the evidence indicates. Allah knows best. Allah's statement,
ARe you convinced that Muhammad was a con man? Angels did fight in the battle according to Kathir and therefore we know that quran is a lie. Let us condemn together the fake prophet of islam.
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=46" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

Eagle
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Eagle »

Ibn Kathir wrote: Verily! Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise) We say that the one thousand mentioned here does not contradict the three thousand mentioned in the above Ayah ﴿3:124﴾. The word "in succession'' means they follow each other and thus indicates that thousands more will follow them. The two Ayat above ﴿8:9 and 3:124﴾ are similar in meaning and it appears that they both were about the battle of Badr, because the angels did fight in the battle of Badr, as the evidence indicates. Allah knows best. Allah's statement,
Eagle wrote:It was answered well and will be reworded one more time in elementary terms to solve your grasping difficulties. The angels' purpose was to assist the Believers
physically and motivate them as well. Knowing you have a massive firepower right behind you that could obliterate your adversary in the blink of an eye will make you engage the enemy ferociously. This is what happenned at the battlefield. The Meccans received a first round knock out blow that resulted in the death of 70 among the cream of the Quraysh elite and 70 were made prisonners. The rest of the enemy coalition was overwhelmed at seeing this, so they retreated without the Believers having to resort to their full firepower.

iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

SAM unlike most muslims you and Eagle know very well that Muhammad did assassinations , looted caravans, attacked his neighbors , exploited women In his custody for sex, fuckedd even a 9 year child, lusted at her when was a baby and dreamed about her, stoned people to death, cut people hands for stealing , allow husband to beat their wife and still you are forcing yourself to believe in him. After knowing all this you have no execuse of acting so dumb. He created a group of 1 billion most unproductive people. People who have zero contribution in where the world stands today. 1 billion bunch of morons who could Not even invent a ballpoint or a dipper. Thanks to Muhammad and his stupid religion .

As to Yohan question for last year or so I quit defending islam or Muhammad on this site I was mainly just involved in non serious debates involving politics. I used to think that accusations against Muhammad were false, but in last couple of years I started doing lot of research and I learned that islamic scholars do not deny but intact confirm them. That's how I left islam. Not to forget I read Quran many times before and every time I found it to be a dumb book which is not at all impressive and does not look like a book from most wise and intelligent god.

How can it be from god when it has even Maths wrong.

Ram
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Ram »

SAM wrote:Do you remember what you said …I want to make Islam disappear from the face of the earth...

All religions are myths, including Islam. It is myths which sustain a religion. Without myths Islam would have been long dead. Once the myths of Islam are busted, which is being achieved by FFI, Islam will be dead. Jesus Christ is the Son of God - one more myth. The stories of creation in the Quran and the Bible are myths.

You are Fundamentalist Hindu...

"Increasing intolerance among the Hindu fundamentalist organizations, which pose a grave threat to democracy, are an indication of the rise of fascist forces in India," said politics professor M. Mohanty of Delhi University.

India has a long history of violence between the Hindu majority and Muslims. Recently, Christians also have been targeted.

The New Delhi-based United Christian Forum for Human Rights has documented more than 120 attacks against Christian individuals, churches, and schools, allegedly by Hindu fundamentalists, in the past year. Half of the incidents have occurred in Gujarat.

http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/h" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... mismup.htm
I am Hindu fundamenatlist? You are a Muslim, this is how Muslims try to shut down the debate about Islam. Sure there are many intolerant Hindus, that does not change the fact that Muslims are intolerant. You cannot wash away the crimes committed ny Muslims by acusing Hindus.

Every day Muslims are killing Muslims in Pakistan. The mutual slaughter between Shias and Sunnis has been going on for 1400 years. More Muslims are killed by Muslims in a month than killed by Hindus in 20 years.

Why there is no freedom of religion in Muslim countries? Islam and Fascism are 2 sides of the same coin.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.

Ram
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Ram »

iffo wrote:As to Yohan question for last year or so I quit defending islam or Muhammad on this site I was mainly just involved in non serious debates involving politics. I used to think that accusations against Muhammad were false, but in last couple of years I started doing lot of research and I learned that islamic scholars do not deny but intact confirm them. That's how I left islam. Not to forget I read Quran many times before and every time I found it to be a dumb book which is not at all impressive and does not look like a book from most wise and intelligent god.

How can it be from god when it has even Maths wrong.
iffo, 25 years ago, I used to believe that all religions are basically the same. But after reading the Quran, the Hadiths and paying attention to what Muslim scholars were saying about Jews, Christians and Hindus, I changed my outlook.

I always said that what I say comes from the Quran, the Hadiths and Islamic scholars. Muslim historians always brag about attrocities committted by Muslim rulers. Muslim preachers praise Muhammad for having sex with a 9 year old Ayesha. Muslims are intolerant, not because Muslims are evil as people, but it is Islam which makes them evil.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.

Yohan
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Yohan »

SAM wrote:"Increasing intolerance among the Hindu fundamentalist organizations, which pose a grave threat to democracy, are an indication of the rise of fascist forces in India," said politics professor M. Mohanty of Delhi University.

India has a long history of violence between the Hindu majority and Muslims. Recently, Christians also have been targeted.

The New Delhi-based United Christian Forum for Human Rights has documented more than 120 attacks against Christian individuals, churches, and schools, allegedly by Hindu fundamentalists, in the past year. Half of the incidents have occurred in Gujarat.
The long history of religious violence in India is rooted in the brutal Islamic conquest of major parts of India, when Islam bought religious intolerance into the subcontinent. For most part, the current Hindu fanatism is a by product of that. Once such mindset gets formed, intolerance is directed at all other religions.

You see, Islam not only makes Muslims a bad people, it also infects other people with its venom!

Yohan
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Yohan »

iffo wrote:As to Yohan question for last year or so I quit defending islam or Muhammad on this site I was mainly just involved in non serious debates involving politics. I used to think that accusations against Muhammad were false, but in last couple of years I started doing lot of research and I learned that islamic scholars do not deny but intact confirm them. That's how I left islam. Not to forget I read Quran many times before and every time I found it to be a dumb book which is not at all impressive and does not look like a book from most wise and intelligent god.
Glad to see you becoming wiser! Do you still support the creation of Pakistan, a nation carved out of India for Islam?

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

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iffo wrote:SAM unlike most muslims you and Eagle know very well that Muhammad did assassinations , looted caravans, attacked his neighbors , exploited women In his custody for sex, fuckedd even a 9 year child, lusted at her when was a baby and dreamed about her, stoned people to death, cut people hands for stealing , allow husband to beat their wife
You're right... It happens in Pakistan..I have ever been there before.. I think the worst Muslims people on earth..My people not like those kinds of people..my great pleasure and pride in my blood and the amazing heritage of courage, daring, and commitment which my ancestors left to me .. Muhaamad said: “There will always be a group among my nation who are righteous; they will not be hurt by people letting them down, until the order of Allah comes.”
and still you are forcing yourself to believe in him. After knowing all this you have no execuse of acting so dumb.
Totally wrong....you're the one who broke your own heart and have become so dummy.... I am not blindly belief.
He created a group of 1 billion most unproductive people.. People who have zero contribution in where the world stands today. 1 billion bunch of morons who could Not even invent a ballpoint or a dipper. Thanks to Muhammad and his stupid religion .
If Tartars have not conquered land in the Muslim world and the fall of Baghdad would never erase the long history of this great nation..Islam as Kingdom of Allah..Keep in your mind the Library of Baghdad the greatest house of knowledge the Tartars soldiers carried millions of books to throw in the Dijla River. And also the library of Qurtoba in Andalusia,Trablos, Lebanon then in Gaza, Jerusalem and Asqualan, all in Palestine...an incredibly stupid, foolish way, those Christianity carried and BURNED millions of books before European invading forces stole the books and took them back to Europe.They know quite well how valuable is knowledge in building a strong nation.

Jim Davidson says..." with the fall of the Caliphate in AD 1258 when the Mongols sacked Baghdad. (No, the Crusaders never got anywhere near Baghdad. And, yes, every Western European owes an enormous debt of gratitude to Islam for blunting the advance of the Mongols. When Baghdad was sacked, the Mongols dumped the entire libraries of the House of Wisdom in the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The waters ran black with the water soluble ink for six months. Be grateful your culture's knowledge wasn't wiped out the same way.)
As to Yohan question for last year or so I quit defending islam or Muhammad on this site I was mainly just involved in non serious debates involving politics. I used to think that accusations against Muhammad were false, but in last couple of years I started doing lot of research and I learned that islamic scholars do not deny but intact confirm them. That's how I left islam.Not to forget I read Quran many times before and every time I found it to be a dumb book which is not at all impressive and does not look like a book from most wise and intelligent god.
Yeah I knew it from the start... you lost a debate and losing a debate makes and you become so upset you have become the TROLL

Be firm with yourself and don't become Muslim again. That's how you left islam.. Otherwise you become like Hassan (CEMB) he said,..."I have already returned to Islam - and I ask Allah to forgive my infidelity - ameen."
How can it be from god when it has even Maths wrong.
Yuo have failed to know about the Miracle of the number 19 in Quran.. There is no other book like Quran..This is the only book in the world without an author..
Last edited by SAM on Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

sum
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by sum »

Hello SAM

Your quote -
This is the only book in the world without an author..

You have not studied Islam in any depth, have you? Muhammad was the author of the Koran. The whole purpose of the Koran was to serve Muhammad`s lust for power, wealth and, of course, women. Did he gain any power, wealth and women? In spades. He got everything that he wanted, thanks to his invented Allah and stupid people who were duped by this charlatan.

It is very clear that you have been thoroughly indoctrinated if you can not see this.

sum

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

sum wrote:Hello SAM

Your quote -
This is the only book in the world without an author..

You have not studied Islam in any depth, have you? Muhammad was the author of the Koran. The whole purpose of the Koran was to serve Muhammad`s lust for power, wealth and, of course, women. Did he gain any power, wealth and women? In spades. He got everything that he wanted, thanks to his invented Allah and stupid people who were duped by this charlatan.

It is very clear that you have been thoroughly indoctrinated if you can not see this.

sum
You're an atheist right...Atheists do not believe in God...the really sad thing about you still talking and listening to word of God QURAN.. :*) Atheist part of my life too..You are fake atheist..
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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SAM
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by SAM »

Yohan wrote:
SAM wrote:"Increasing intolerance among the Hindu fundamentalist organizations, which pose a grave threat to democracy, are an indication of the rise of fascist forces in India," said politics professor M. Mohanty of Delhi University.

India has a long history of violence between the Hindu majority and Muslims. Recently, Christians also have been targeted.

The New Delhi-based United Christian Forum for Human Rights has documented more than 120 attacks against Christian individuals, churches, and schools, allegedly by Hindu fundamentalists, in the past year. Half of the incidents have occurred in Gujarat.
The long history of religious violence in India is rooted in the brutal Islamic conquest of major parts of India, when Islam bought religious intolerance into the subcontinent. For most part, the current Hindu fanatism is a by product of that. Once such mindset gets formed, intolerance is directed at all other religions.

You see, Islam not only makes Muslims a bad people, it also infects other people with its venom!
Read this.. Muslim reactions to the shuddhi campaign in early twentieth century North India.......by Yoginder Sikand (non-muslim)

One of the most salient developments in the 1920s was the launching of the shuddhi movement by the Arya Samaj to bring into the Hindu fold various groups considered outside the pale of what had now come to be defined as 'Hinduism', including untouchables and, later, Muslim, Christian and even Sikh communities. The Arya shuddhi campaign provoked Muslim leaders and groups to respond, and this took the form of various tablighi or Islamic missionary initiatives intended to counter the Arya Samaj's conversion drive and, going further, to attempt to spread Islam among non-Muslims as well.

http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15012001/Art26.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can add more articless about darkside of hindusm toward non hindus.....if you want it
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

Yohan
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Yohan »

SAM wrote:Read this.. Muslim reactions to the shuddhi campaign in early twentieth century North India.......by Yoginder Sikand (non-muslim)

One of the most salient developments in the 1920s was the launching of the shuddhi movement by the Arya Samaj to bring into the Hindu fold various groups considered outside the pale of what had now come to be defined as 'Hinduism', including untouchables and, later, Muslim, Christian and even Sikh communities. The Arya shuddhi campaign provoked Muslim leaders and groups to respond, and this took the form of various tablighi or Islamic missionary initiatives intended to counter the Arya Samaj's conversion drive and, going further, to attempt to spread Islam among non-Muslims as well.

http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15012001/Art26.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can add more articless about darkside of hindusm toward non hindus.....if you want it
I don't get your point. Trying to convert other people by missionary work into a religion is not bad by any means, whether Hindus or others do it. It is perfectly legal in all modern ccountries. What is wrong in converting Muslims to Hinduism by preaching?

Hinduism has a lot of darkside, but it is mostly inside.

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