I declare Islam to be false

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
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marduk
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by marduk »

Iffo was right, Islam is false. Uncung, SAM and the others are welcome to explain how a Samaritan got back in time to the Exodus, even though Samaria didn't exist before the 800's BC and in the time of the Exodus no golden calf worshipers of any kind existed in the place where Samaria would later be named. At that time it would have been the Canaanites, who worshiped El, the high god adopted by the Jews later. The only golden calf worshiping Samaritans existing were in the 700's BC, after the Assyrians moved them there. "Samaritan" is not a mistranslation either. That's the only translation of the Arabic word. Muslim scholars try to get around the glaring error by not even translating the word, but everyone knows what it means anyway. The little Islam charade is over. Take your stupid kiddy book, apparently written by a complete imbecile, and go home because you have no credibility here whatsoever after this Samaritan thing has been revealed.
Anthony
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Anthony »

iffo wrote:After lot of studying and research I have come to the conclusion at the moment that Islam is false. In fact I admit all the religions are men made bogus stories and are false.

I have nothing against most of my muslims brothers and sisters who have very little knowledge about their religion and Islamic history and as a human beings we all are programmed to resist anything said against what we and our forefathers always believed in.
Thats quite a news!
A person declaring his apostasy.
And you tried a lot and had hard times and consequently you have given up your attempt.

Could you please list five main reasons why you think Islam is false..

And what are the basic beliefs of Islam?
And how have you found them to be false?

Thanks..


.
iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Main 5 reason will be

The idea that a person will say to others that I am prophet of god and they are a
Suppose to believe him with out doubting him is retatrted. And if they don't they will be burned in hell. Why should they believe him . Especially why people who lived 100's of years after his death expected to believe him. The whole idea is wrong.

Why would the mighty good compared to who human are nothing will give such inhumane punishments to inn
Innocent human beings. Even the cruelest people on earth will not do that to other human.

The unimpressive text of Quran which has very little wisdom and continuous threats and repetitive stuff and pathetic job it has done to explain Islam basic principles , is not what you expect from the book of all wise god.
Quran stupid statements allowing sex with slaves, calling sperm comes from back bone area
, it's confusing statements that people to this day don't understand, it's allowing men beating wife or marrying a girl before getting menus , it's barbaric punishments which uncivil like cutting hands, it's injustice telling woman should be locked in house for life for being homo while man can be forgiven, it's failure to stop cousin marriage causing birth defects, while worrying about Muhammad's sex life arranging his marriages, it's failure not to stop female genital mutilation , it's giving men virgins in heaven and nothing to women ..... And the list goes on.


Muhammad marrying Aisha which nobody can not deny that it happened when she was six, setting such a bad example.

Muhammad attacking his neighbors and later his calips following his foot steps attacking other countries in which thousands of people died. Which wise god expects they will accept him
To be prophet or pay tax with out showing resistance

Backward nature of Islam , it's incompatibility to 21st century , like god only had 7th century in his mind when he was creating this religion.
Anthony
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Anthony »

Hello "IFFO", greetings,
iffo wrote:Main 5 reason will be
I wanted to see five main reasons and I see that you have more than mere five and you are willing to share. Interesting. Your ideas will be helpful. So these are the issues which have made you decide that Islam is false. Thanks for sharing. Now I had other two questions for you which are yet to be answered. I am waiting eagerly for the answers. Thanks in advance for the upcoming answer.
Anthony wrote: And what are the basic beliefs of Islam?
And how have you found them to be false?
iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Anthony wrote:Hello "IFFO", greetings,
iffo wrote:Main 5 reason will be
I wanted to see five main reasons and I see that you have more than mere five and you are willing to share. Interesting. Your ideas will be helpful. So these are the issues which have made you decide that Islam is false. Thanks for sharing. Now I had other two questions for you which are yet to be answered. I am waiting eagerly for the answers. Thanks in advance for the upcoming answer.
Anthony wrote: And what are the basic beliefs of Islam?
And how have you found them to be false?
And what are the basic beliefs of Islam?
A. Believe in one god
B. Muhammad to be his prophet
C. Quran to be book from God.

And how have you found them to be false?
A. I don't know if there is one god or more than one or have none at all.

B. Muhammad was not a prophet because of the life he lived which I have already explained in my previous post. And like I said no wise god will send a messanger and expect people to believe him. Its a retarded idea.

C. Quran is not book from a wise god, reason I have already explained in my previous book. A 5th grader can write a smarter book than quran.

Muhammad was not a prophet and quran not book of god, meaning Islam is false.
piscohot
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by piscohot »

That a god gave himself the right to burn humans in eternity for disbelieving in HIM and yet UNABLE (for centuries) to provide evidence with which will prove beyond the shadow of a doubt on his existence, is enough for me to disregard such a god.
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."
Anthony
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Anthony »

Greetings,
So these are the basic beliefs of Islam.
iffo wrote:
And what are the basic beliefs of Islam?
A. Believe in one god
A. I don't know if there is one god or more than one or have none at all.
I think as I understand from your banner that you have relinquished your belief in God. I suppose you have become agnostic. Believing in One Almighty God is a solace for many, which you evidently dont require... Islam vehemently uphold the belief in One Almighty and asks its adherents to follow it strictly. Muslims are probably the most staunch advocates and followers of monotheism...

Now, how have you found that there cant be a god which at least in theory the Almighty?

iffo wrote:
B. Muhammad to be his prophet
B. Muhammad was not a prophet because of the life he lived which I have already explained in my previous post. And like I said no wise god will send a messanger and expect people to believe him. Its a retarded idea.
1. What are the criteria of becoming a prophet?
2.Who sets the standard of characteristics of a prophet?
3. Why a wise God will not send a messenger?
4.Do you think The Almighty God,if there is any, cares those who want set a limit to God's ability,
5. How can you say God cant be wise in sending a messenger?

I think you are confused to a great degree. You say Muhammad wasnt a prophet! How can there be a prophet if there is no God. So, your premise should have been that as there is no God , there cant be no prophet. Therefore, Muhammad wasnt a prophet. However, you have treaded the path from the opposite direction, though its understandable. Most of the religious people simply dont have any personal thinking and in consequence become either religious bigot or so-called bigot after getting disillusioned...

iffo wrote: C. Quran to be book from God
C. Quran is not book from a wise god, reason I have already explained in my previous book.

Interesting.
1.Cant it be otherwise?
2. You have assumed some characteristics of God, and want to see and find these everywhere. In other words, you want your God to be something and some kind. If I put it another way, you have become more god than the Almighty GOD and you were always the same person, I think..


CIAO...
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charleslemartel
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by charleslemartel »

How can there be a prophet if there is no God. So, your premise should have been that as there is no God , there cant be no prophet. Therefore, Muhammad wasnt a prophet.
Are you a Muslim, Anthony? I ask because your logic follows a typical Muslim pattern!

Reversing your train of logic, I can claim that since there is a God, there certainly can be a prophet. Therefore, charleslemartel is a prophet. :roflmao:
Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Anthony wrote:Greetings,
So these are the basic beliefs of Islam.
iffo wrote:
And what are the basic beliefs of Islam?
A. Believe in one god
A. I don't know if there is one god or more than one or have none at all.
I think as I understand from your banner that you have relinquished your belief in God. I suppose you have become agnostic. Believing in One Almighty God is a solace for many, which you evidently dont require... Islam vehemently uphold the belief in One Almighty and asks its adherents to follow it strictly. Muslims are probably the most staunch advocates and followers of monotheism...

Now, how have you found that there cant be a god which at least in theory the Almighty?

iffo wrote:
B. Muhammad to be his prophet
B. Muhammad was not a prophet because of the life he lived which I have already explained in my previous post. And like I said no wise god will send a messanger and expect people to believe him. Its a retarded idea.
1. What are the criteria of becoming a prophet?
2.Who sets the standard of characteristics of a prophet?
3. Why a wise God will not send a messenger?
4.Do you think The Almighty God,if there is any, cares those who want set a limit to God's ability,
5. How can you say God cant be wise in sending a messenger?

I think you are confused to a great degree. You say Muhammad wasnt a prophet! How can there be a prophet if there is no God. So, your premise should have been that as there is no God , there cant be no prophet. Therefore, Muhammad wasnt a prophet. However, you have treaded the path from the opposite direction, though its understandable. Most of the religious people simply dont have any personal thinking and in consequence become either religious bigot or so-called bigot after getting disillusioned...

iffo wrote: C. Quran to be book from God
C. Quran is not book from a wise god, reason I have already explained in my previous book.

Interesting.
1.Cant it be otherwise?
2. You have assumed some characteristics of God, and want to see and find these everywhere. In other words, you want your God to be something and some kind. If I put it another way, you have become more god than the Almighty GOD and you were always the same person, I think..


CIAO...
There may be a god or there may not be, I can not prove it either way. But that's irrelevant. Bottom line is if any god exists he/she did not send any book called quran or Muhammad as his messenger.

One thing is clear if there is a god who has created everything. I expect him to be mighty intelligent and wise. And by looking at Quran as I mentioned before it does not look like a work of a god. Like I said a 5 grader can write a better book which will make more sense and more wisdom than quran.

Once quran is ruled out as book of god, Muhammad can not be claimed as a messenger, regardless of what kind a life he lived.That proves Muhammad was writing it himself.

Anthony
1. What are the criteria of becoming a prophet?
2.Who sets the standard of characteristics of a prophet?
3. Why a wise God will not send a messenger?
4.Do you think The Almighty God,if there is any, cares those who want set a limit to God's ability,
5. How can you say God cant be wise in sending a messenger?
I already answered the above. No wise god unless he is stupid will expect that he will send a guy who will say do what I say I am messenger of god and they will just believe him with out doubting that he may be a con man. God if he had any common sense should know this better that it does not work like that.
And not only this, first he has this crazy idea of sending saying a guy claiming I am the messenger, and if they don't believe him he will be so pissed that he will burn them for ever in hell. No wise god (if there is any) will do that.
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Fathom
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Fathom »

Iffo,

Welcome to your freedom from faith.

That's what we are all about here.
Anthony
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Anthony »

iffo wrote:
There may be a god or there may not be, I can not prove it either way.
So an Agnostic.. An evidence of confusion. Have you, by the way, read THE GOD DELUSION or WHY I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN by Russel.. ok doesnt matter..
iffo wrote:
Bottom line is if any god exists he/she did not send any book called quran or Muhammad as his messenger.
There is no bottom line, as I see here. You simply cant prove anything 'bottom line'.. Because the argument "if a God exists" is a ludicrous argument to lead to a conclusion. The bottom line is confusion...or assumption? what do you say?...
iffo wrote: One thing is clear if there is a god who has created everything. I expect him to be mighty intelligent and wise.
What you expect to find might be your folly. Your yardstick of judging can be totally incapable of judging what you are up to. Have you ever thought of your position in the universe, or even in relation to milkyway -our galaxy of those billion galaxies.. Now you want God to be wise in your terms. Are you crazy?...
iffo wrote: And by looking at Quran as I mentioned before it does not look like a work of a god.
Doesnt look like?! It doesnt seem to be.. A work of God. What you want a work of God to contain?. If I give 10 samples , will you be able to find one which has the necessary attributes of a work of God.? What a work of God look like?...?

iffo wrote:Like I said a 5 grader can write a better book hich will make more sense and more wisdom than quran.
Wisdom! Definition. I bet many dont know it fully. Perhaps you have tried. I am not trying defend anything, dont take me otherwise. I am talking about the premise and conclusion which you have used to discern right from the wrong..

wisdom [ˈwɪzdəm]
n
1. the ability or result of an ability to think and act utilizing knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight
2. accumulated knowledge, erudition, or enlightenment

A third grader or fourth grader is taught Newtons law of motion... So that fourth grader who understands newtons law that "The velocity of a body remains constant unless the body is acted upon by an external force" at the age of 10/11 is better than Newton?.. maybe. who knows. :)


iffo wrote:Once quran is ruled out as book of god, Muhammad can not be claimed as a messenger, regardless of what kind a life he lived..
Thats a good argument. I like this one. Indeed. But what methodology can we use to be certain that a book is not a work of god?

iffo wrote:That proves Muhammad was writing it himself.
But why he wrote it? to get fame or power or what?
Anthony
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Anthony »

charleslemartel wrote:
Reversing your train of logic, I can claim that since there is a God, there certainly can be a prophet. Therefore, charleslemartel is a prophet. :roflmao:

Image
:roll:
iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

@Anthony

You asked me questions I gave you straight answers. Now you are playing typical games of words that religious people normally do. I am way too familiar with you guys.
BTW admitting there is confusion is far better than lying to yourself and forcing you to have some bogus belief that one can not prove and which is full of mistakes and doubts. May be after 5000 years there will be far less confusion.

And yes you probably can not tell which book has wisdom in it and written by someone intelligent, but I indeed can because I use my brain to judge things and never lock it so that I can hang on desperately to my old beliefs. I was that desperate but not anymore.
Anthony
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Anthony »

iffo wrote:@Anthony
You asked me questions I gave you straight answers.
You gave answers to all my questions. Are you satisfied with the answers you have given? Dont be kidding? You havent answered all the questions, you know that.

Now you are playing typical games of words that religious people normally do. I am way too familiar with you guys.
:roflmao:
Its evident.
You are way familiar.
To your dissatisfaction, I am not a religious guy , but I like to discuss the reasons or logic people use to come to a conclusion.
BTW admitting there is confusion is far better than lying to yourself and forcing you to have some bogus belief that one can not prove and which is full of mistakes and doubts. May be after 5000 years there will be far less confusion.
Hawkings say that the world will be destroyed within 1000 years. :)

I was that desperate but not anymore.
Did you know what you believe?..
iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Anthony wrote: You gave answers to all my questions. Are you satisfied with the answers you have given? Dont be kidding? You havent answered all the questions, you know that.

I think I have answered your questions with all honesty , you may not have liked the answers, that's a different thing.
Anthony
To your dissatisfaction, I am not a religious guy , but I like to discuss the reasons or logic people use to come to a conclusion.
You are on right track but you need to do much better job of using logic.

Anthony
Hawkings say that the world will be destroyed within 1000 years. :)
Hope not, than we will never find out the truth.
Anthony
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Anthony »

iffo wrote:
I think I have answered your questions with all honesty , you may not have liked the answers, that's a different thing.
Have you?. Evidently not.

I asked.
Anthony wrote: What a work of God look like?...?
why he(Muhammad) wrote it(Quran)? to get fame or power or what?
When have you answered these questions? I didnt see in the previous posts, dear. Maybe you have answered without any word- through blank spaces. Who knows. You have just changed your philosophy of life, how you interact is alien to normal people.

More unanswered questions which you say you have answered, though you havent.
Anthony wrote:1. What are the criteria of becoming a prophet?
2.Who sets the standard of characteristics of a prophet?
3. Why a wise God will not send a messenger?
4.Do you think The Almighty God,if there is any, cares those who want set a limit to God's ability,
5. How can you say God cant be wise in sending a messenger?
iffo wrote: You are on right track but you need to do much better job of using logic.
But you obviously assumed me as a religious guy and even went for a brief description of how you know the religious guys to the bone. :) .
You know whether I am on right track or not. You are on assumption once again. Another revelation from me would lead you to think that I am on wrong path. :*) .
This is how you change, dear. You lack conviction, you are always tentative, whatever is your belief. Congratulations.
iffo wrote: Hope not, than we will never find out the truth.
Truth has been in existence since when human first developed their faculty of cognition and thinking.
sum
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by sum »

Hello Anthony

Your posts puzzle me. Why are you having a go at iffo? Your posts are somewhat pedantic and seem to be designed to confuse iffo as to why he left Islam. Are you a muslim who is trying a new approach to unsettle iffo and hope that he returns to Islam? If you are not a muslim then your critical posts to iffo are unneccessary when you could be spending your time in a more fruitful way by telling us why you reject the Koran, Islam, Allah and Muhammad.

sum
iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Anthony

1. What are the criteria of becoming a prophet?
2.Who sets the standard of characteristics of a prophet?
3. Why a wise God will not send a messenger?
4.Do you think The Almighty God,if there is any, cares those who want set a limit to God's ability,
5. How can you say God cant be wise in sending a messenger?
These question become irrelevant, when I have already said its a foolish idea to send a guy saying I am a messenger of god and expect people to believe him. And if they don't god get so pissed and angry at them that he will burn them for ever. Unless your god is fool nobody will behave like that. Your god should know better people will not be convinced that he was prophet just because he says so.

Now if you really wants to know the characteristics of a prophet I can tell you he should not behave like a robber/criminal and doing things which are immoral to most of the world and setting bad examples. Unless you admit your god is a criminal and immoral in that case I have no argument.

Code: Select all

Anthony 
What a work of God look like?...?
why he(Muhammad) wrote it(Quran)? to get fame or power or what?
God's work should not be stupid, with errors, confusing and immoral. Creator should be doing better job than its creation. Here we see god doing surprisingly poor job. You need to read with open mind to see all that, not like a slave of your religion.
Anthony

his is how you change, dear. You lack conviction, you are always tentative, whatever is your belief. Congratulations.
Nothing wrong with that, that shows I am not stubborn, at least I am honest and told we don't know about many things right now, its an evolving process. Instead of cheating with myself and believing in any bogus idea and belief and fooling myself for my whole life. You have nothing to gain by closing your eyes and brain.
Anthony
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by Anthony »

iffo wrote: These question become irrelevant,
The questions I have asked are , possibly, the most important ones for you at this juncture of your life as your have absolved yourself from your sufferings of defending something which simply you couldn’t. Now you say these are irrelevant! Nay! What are you talking. Come to the earth.
when I have already said its a foolish idea to send a guy saying I am a messenger of god and expect people to believe him.
My dear Iffo, do you simply enjoy being irritating or annoying? I wonder and you wander.
I asked you three or four times why you think its foolish to send a messenger? And every time you have taken the pleasure of repeating the same old statement of yours , as an answer, which is not an answer , rather the restatement of your idea on which I asked the question..

For example, a person says its stupid to become an apostate. Then I ask why its stupid. The person answers its stupid that’s why. How ludicrous can you be, my dear.

I asked a person why have chosen to study mathematics. He answered I like mathematics. I asked why you like mathematics—he answers I study mathematics.

Another example, a person says that IFFO is mad and obsessed. Then I ask why IFFO has become mad and obsessed? The person answers –“because IFFo is mad and obsessed?...

Are these called answers? Can they be called response? My dear, :roll:

you used to debate people to justify Islam. I wonder, you wander. For God sake, what kept you sustain such long.
iffo wrote:. Unless your god is fool nobody will behave like that.
Oh. I see. God can be fool as well as per your comment. Who knows. Maybe HE is a fool but created an intelligent race
Your god should know better people will not be convinced that he was prophet just because he says so.
You are better. Congratulations. :) By the way, why are you putting your words into my mouth saying “MY GOD” . I don’t like it, although you may like it as you are better. Are you six feet with the highest university degree, my friend. Whatever, you are better. You are from Pakistan. NAH!
How come have you become better suddenly mate!!! You were convinced before, now you aren’t not. That means before you didn’t know. You were loser then. Now you are better. I am educating myself on better people, like you IFFO.. :cool:

My last comment: I just went for a psychoanalysis of this guy! At first he had superiority complex as he thought he could defend Islam, but unfortunately for him he didn’t know what Islam is. so he got whipped. I bet he doesn’t know now as well. Hope he will learn more in the future. Even he doesn’t know what he is talking about now. He is simply copying the ideas of others that are used against Islam. Because he is overwhelmed. He didn’t get the intellectual support he thought he would get from other Muslims. He is greatly disappointed and now is feeling relieved as he needs not to defend anything. Its called disillusioned delusion in which he is now. Then again, he doesn’t know how to defend that as well. But he is stubborn, though he says he isn’t. That is the reason why he clung to Islam for so long and that is exactly the reason why he will long go against Islam.Either way, he is devoid of real understanding until now. But the fact of the matter is that he derives his thinking from others and rarely has his original thinking. However, he can be motivated either by enthusiasm or by defeating him on a certain issue. He has all the characteristics of becoming a bigot, which he were and are. Changing him is a big task , after all his DNA is already encoded , little can he change.

I wish him best luck. Be happy.


Cheers.
iffo
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Re: I declare Islam to be false

Post by iffo »

Athony
My dear Iffo, do you simply enjoy being irritating or annoying? I wonder and you wander.
I asked you three or four times why you think its foolish to send a messenger? And every time you have taken the pleasure of repeating the same old statement of yours , as an answer, which is not an answer , rather the restatement of your idea on which I asked the question..


I am not going to repeat what I have already told you 3 times. Please re-read my posts if you are interested in an answer. You do not have to be rocket scientist to understand. You don't want to understand it.

Anthony
My last comment: I just went for a psychoanalysis of this guy! At first he had superiority complex as he thought he could defend Islam, but unfortunately for him he didn’t know what Islam is. so he got whipped. I bet he doesn’t know now as well. Hope he will learn more in the future. Even he doesn’t know what he is talking about now. He is simply copying the ideas of others that are used against Islam. Because he is overwhelmed. He didn’t get the intellectual support he thought he would get from other Muslims. He is greatly disappointed and now is feeling relieved as he needs not to defend anything. Its called disillusioned delusion in which he is now. Then again, he doesn’t know how to defend that as well. But he is stubborn, though he says he isn’t. That is the reason why he clung to Islam for so long and that is exactly the reason why he will long go against Islam.Either way, he is devoid of real understanding until now. But the fact of the matter is that he derives his thinking from others and rarely has his original thinking. However, he can be motivated either by enthusiasm or by defeating him on a certain issue. He has all the characteristics of becoming a bigot, which he were and are. Changing him is a big task , after all his DNA is already encoded , little can he change.

And my last comments and psychoanalysis about you. You call me bigot but I think you hated me when I was muslim and you still could not over come that hate. You have too much free time to waste, and you are quite creepy and have some mental problem which you probably don't know but others can easily see. I suggest use your time more productively.
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