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Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:46 pm
by Ghalibkhastahaal
sum wrote:Hello Ghalibkhastahaal

Cat`s quote -
The Cat wrote:
So, to the question: ''Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?''
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
The answer: Nobody was the father of Jesus.
The Cat wrote:
Agreed! But then it means that... you're plainly admitting Isa's Koranic divinity! Thanks...
Or is it that Allah being this 'nobody', Muslims are but worshiping a 'no one' as The One?



Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
How am I am admitting the divinity, when the man had zero divinity?

Let us move on to something new, which you wish to discuss. I consider this done.


Your logic has gone and that is why you are running away from this thread. Your standing has reached a new low.

Sorry, The Cat, for intruding on your discussion with Ghalibkhastahaal. He has shot himself in the foot, well and truly, and so now wants to leave with his tail between his legs.

sum
Here comes in the stray sum out of the blue, with his tail between his legs. Shall we walk you around sum? :roflmao:

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:22 pm
by Nosubmission
Let's see more rubbish from this ignorant follower of the pagan jigolo of the desert:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Regarding the Logos, there is no talk of any Greek word Logos in Quran. No Logos! It is simply God's command!
This is a straw-man argument, for we all know that the Qur'an does not contain the Greek word LOGOS. However, we all know that it uses the Arabic equivalent of the Greek word LOGOS, which is al-Kalimah.

It is not surprising to see that you are ignoring an important fact:

*The narrative about Jesus' birth in Surah 19 emphasizes Jesus' creation through God's command more than the narrative in Surah 3. However, Jesus is designated as the Word of Allah only in the Medina period and for the first time in Surah 3:45.

Why is that? Because your idiotic pagan prophet devised the account in Surah 3 by plagiarising from the Gospel of James. Note the similarity:

And behold an angel of the Lord stood before her saying: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace before the Lord of all things, and thou shalt conceive of his word. (Gospel of James 11:2)

Your idiotic pagan prophet did not call Jesus the word of God in Surah 19 because he did not plagiarize from the Gospel of James prior to his migration. His fake account of Jesus' birth in Surah 19 was based on the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew and the Arabic Gospel of the Savior's Infancy. The first of these did not refer to Jesus as the word of God, but the second did:

We find what follows in the book of Joseph the high priest, who lived in the time of Christ. Some say that he is Caiaphas. He has said that Jesus spoke, and, indeed, when He was lying in His cradle said to Mary His mother: I am Jesus, the Son of God, the Logos, whom you have brought forth, as the Angel Gabriel announced to you; and my Father has sent me for the salvation of the world. (Arabic Gospel of Infancy chapter 1)

In this Arabic Gospel Jesus spoke in the cradle and identified Himself as Logos = the Word of God (John 1:1). However, your idiotic pagan prophet did not understand what this Logos meant and mistakenly presumed that it was the word of God given to Jesus, that is, the scripture supposedly revealed to him. This is why he copied the section above into Surah 19 in the following form:

Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy ? He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet. (Surah 19:29-30)

In your pagan prophet's fantasies:

The Son of God corresponded to Servant of God
The Logos corresponded to the Scripture
The Savior corresponded to Prophet.

He confused Logos with Scripture. Muhammad's ignorance is once more exposed. :lol:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote: Regarding breathing in, neither Allah breathed nor pushed Gabriel in. There is no talk of Gabriel in 66:12 and Allah breathed life into the fetus or simply gave life to the zygote of Jesus. God can do anything. Right? So, God simply said something like this: "Let Mary conceive and .....she was pregnant!"
More lies from you! Surah 66:12 says Allah breated INTO Mary's private parts to create Jesus. The truth is out there!

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:00 pm
by Ghalibkhastahaal
Spoiler! :
Nosubmission wrote:Let's see more rubbish from this ignorant follower of the pagan jigolo of the desert:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Regarding the Logos, there is no talk of any Greek word Logos in Quran. No Logos! It is simply God's command!
This is a straw-man argument, for we all know that the Qur'an does not contain the Greek word LOGOS. However, we all know that it uses the Arabic equivalent of the Greek word LOGOS, which is al-Kalimah.

It is not surprising to see that you are ignoring an important fact:

*The narrative about Jesus' birth in Surah 19 emphasizes Jesus' creation through God's command more than the narrative in Surah 3. However, Jesus is designated as the Word of Allah only in the Medina period and for the first time in Surah 3:45.

Why is that? Because your idiotic pagan prophet devised the account in Surah 3 by plagiarising from the Gospel of James. Note the similarity:

And behold an angel of the Lord stood before her saying: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace before the Lord of all things, and thou shalt conceive of his word. (Gospel of James 11:2)

Your idiotic pagan prophet did not call Jesus the word of God in Surah 19 because he did not plagiarize from the Gospel of James prior to his migration. His fake account of Jesus' birth in Surah 19 was based on the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew and the Arabic Gospel of the Savior's Infancy. The first of these did not refer to Jesus as the word of God, but the second did:

We find what follows in the book of Joseph the high priest, who lived in the time of Christ. Some say that he is Caiaphas. He has said that Jesus spoke, and, indeed, when He was lying in His cradle said to Mary His mother: I am Jesus, the Son of God, the Logos, whom you have brought forth, as the Angel Gabriel announced to you; and my Father has sent me for the salvation of the world. (Arabic Gospel of Infancy chapter 1)

In this Arabic Gospel Jesus spoke in the cradle and identified Himself as Logos = the Word of God (John 1:1). However, your idiotic pagan prophet did not understand what this Logos meant and mistakenly presumed that it was the word of God given to Jesus, that is, the scripture supposedly revealed to him. This is why he copied the section above into Surah 19 in the following form:

Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy ? He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet. (Surah 19:29-30)

In your pagan prophet's fantasies:

The Son of God corresponded to Servant of God
The Logos corresponded to the Scripture
The Savior corresponded to Prophet.

He confused Logos with Scripture. Muhammad's ignorance is once more exposed. :lol:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote: Regarding breathing in, neither Allah breathed nor pushed Gabriel in. There is no talk of Gabriel in 66:12 and Allah breathed life into the fetus or simply gave life to the zygote of Jesus. God can do anything. Right? So, God simply said something like this: "Let Mary conceive and .....she was pregnant!"
More lies from you! Surah 66:12 says Allah breated INTO Mary's private parts to create Jesus. The truth is out there!
That was a very poor submission, Nosubmission. I have already explained and there is no need to put any spins over that.

You know very well that the gospels of the bronze age Bible, are extremely unreliable and errant. We cannot rely on the untrustworthy writers, who wrote them and those who kept on forging them. There is not a single original of anything of the bronze age New testament. Isn't that a shame?

Let us see if we have something direct from the horse's mouth, I mean Jesus.

Answer the following questions in all honesty, please:

1. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am the Logos of God" or "I am the Word of God that existed before God"?

2. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am the Son of God"?

3. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am 100% God and 100% man"?

4. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am God"?

Now, you, I and all here know that Jesus did not say any of above and that means the men, who penned the bronze age gospels, epistles, etc., were wretched liars, who lied through their teeth.

Quran exposed their lies, my non-submitting friend! They falsely turned the son of Mary into a ridiculous God.

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:43 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
Jesus didn't even specifically say he was Son of God, but as I clearly showed you, others referred to him that way, even God himself. And it insn't isolated to one book as you attempted to claim. You ignored that post.

As to Jesus saying he was God or connected directly to God somehow, there are some cryptic references that support that, like when he told Phillip that if he has seen him, he has seen the Father, as well as others, so it's not like people are pulling this notion of the Trinity out of thin air. Some verse support the notion, some don't. It's hard to say for sure.

But let's take a look at what the perfect book that is the letter for letter dictation of Allah has to say about this false Christian concept of "Trinity" or "3 Gods" (not 3 in 1).

5:73. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.

5:5:74. Will they not then turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

75. The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.

116. And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great knower of the unseen things.

So it's clearly telling us that the Christians are wrong for taking Jesus and Mary as part of a Trinity rather than worshiping only Allah. :lol: Perhaps Allah would have preferred if the Christians took Jesus and the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity, because that's what they actually did and Allah never once complained about that. Never even mentioned it :lol:

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:57 pm
by Nosubmission
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
That was a very poor submission, Nosubmission. I have already explained and there is no need to put any spins over that.

You know very well that the gospels of the bronze age Bible, are extremely unreliable and errant. We cannot rely on the untrustworthy writers, who wrote them and those who kept on forging them. There is not a single original of anything of the bronze age New testament. Isn't that a shame?

Let us see if we have something direct from the horse's mouth, I mean Jesus.

Answer the following questions in all honesty, please:

1. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am the Logos of God" or "I am the Word of God that existed before God"?

2. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am the Son of God"?

3. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am 100% God and 100% man"?

4. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am God"?

Now, you, I and all here know that Jesus did not say any of above and that means the men, who penned the bronze age gospels, epistles, etc., were wretched liars, who lied through their teeth.

Quran exposed their lies, my non-submitting friend! They falsely turned the son of Mary into a ridiculous God.
You are such a coward and so pathetically addicted to logical fallacies that you could do nothing but ignored my previous post.

Study logics and get over the fallacy of red herring.

Your questions can be applied to your pagan prophet's book too. For instance:

1) Where in the Qur'an does Jesus publicly identify Himself as the Messiah?
2)Where in the Qur'an does Jesus publicly identify Himself as the Word of Allah?
3)Where in the Qur'an does Jesus publicly identify Himself as a Rooh proceeding from Allah?
...........

You have so many things to learn...

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:31 pm
by Skenderbeg
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote: You know very well that the gospels of the bronze age Bible, are extremely unreliable and errant. We cannot rely on the untrustworthy writers, who wrote them and those who kept on forging them. There is not a single original of anything of the bronze age New testament. Isn't that a shame?
The real shame is that Muslims like you are liars and idiots you attack the very Bible your Allah supported. Allah says no one can change his words ? WAS ALLAH LYING IN THE QURAN OR ARE YOU MUSLIMS LYING NOW ?

Tell me because im really confused with you Muslims, if the bible was corrupted where was Allah to protect his prophets ? and his books ? if the bible is corrupt then your Allah is fake weak and not god..

Mohammed in the Quran is told if he is unsure he should ask people of the books ? Jews and christians. how can he ask people who's books are corrupt ? seems like Muslim brians are whats really corrupt for sure... :worthy:

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:15 am
by The Cat
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
The Cat wrote:So, to the question: ''Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?''
The answer: Nobody was the father of Jesus.
Agreed! But then it means that... you're plainly admitting Isa's Koranic divinity! Thanks...
Or is it that Allah being this 'nobody', Muslims are but worshiping a 'no one' as The One?
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:How am I am admitting the divinity, when the man had zero divinity?
Well, remember when herein I was wandering why the name of Yashu wasn't written instead of the Hindu attribute that is Isa?


Now, it's all over the place! Search me but it's not rendered as a proper name, as it should have been, but as a VERB: Allah's Will!

Yeshua (Hebrew for Jesus) is Allah's Yasha'u (ie. Will)! Quoting my own notes:
18.23-24: And say not of anything: Lo! I shall do that tomorrow, Except if Allah will ('Illā 'An Yashā'a Allāhu).

There you have it: Yasha'a (plainly Yeshua, Jesus) is God's Will, ie. ISA !

42.19: He provideth for whom He will (Yarzuqu Man Yashā'u).

30.48:Allah is He Who sendeth the winds so that they raise clouds, and spreadeth them along the sky as pleaseth Him (Kayfa Yashā'u),
and causeth them to break and thou seest the rain downpouring from within them. And when He maketh it to fall on whom
He will (Yashā'u Min Ibādihi) of His bondmen, lo! they rejoice;

So, the name of Jesus is written in the Koran: Yashu and, like that of Isa, it means God's Will.

9.15: And He will remove the anger of their hearts. Allah relenteth toward whom He will (Alá Man Yashā'u). Allah is Knower, Wise.

In 9.26-27 Yashu is associated with the Jewish Sekinah (Arabic Sakinah, Peace of Reassurance).

9.26-27: Then Allah sent His peace of reassurance (Sakīnatahu) down upon His messenger and upon the believers,
and sent down hosts ye could not see, and punished those who disbelieved. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
---Then afterward Allah will relent toward whom He will (Yashā'u); for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakina" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the Koran, Isa is but a lordly attribute and Yashu (Yeshua) became a verb: The Verb (will).

24.46: Verily We have sent down revelations and explained them. Allah guideth whom He will (Yashā'u) unto a straight path.
The etymological correspondence is so crystal clear that not a shadow of a doubt can remain: Jesus is attested as Allah's Will, His VERB.

I've said: The conjunction of Isa and Allah is all too well attested in the expression Insha 'Allah (إن شاء الله) ! So God will...
But it's also related to another Arabic term, Mā šāʾ (Masih, Messiah) Allāh (ما شاء الله), which means "God has willed it".

In short, Allah can't possibly act except through that Will, ie His VERB, which was at the beginning just like Jn.1.1: Yasha'u !!!!!!! :yahoo: :banana:

Why doesn't Jesus have a father in the Koran?
Because he's co-substantial WITH Allah (3.59)!

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:52 am
by Ghalibkhastahaal
Nosubmission wrote:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
That was a very poor submission, Nosubmission. I have already explained and there is no need to put any spins over that.

You know very well that the gospels of the bronze age Bible, are extremely unreliable and errant. We cannot rely on the untrustworthy writers, who wrote them and those who kept on forging them. There is not a single original of anything of the bronze age New testament. Isn't that a shame?

Let us see if we have something direct from the horse's mouth, I mean Jesus.

Answer the following questions in all honesty, please:

1. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am the Logos of God" or "I am the Word of God that existed before God"?

2. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am the Son of God"?

3. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am 100% God and 100% man"?

4. Did Jesus say himself publicly, "I am God"?

Now, you, I and all here know that Jesus did not say any of above and that means the men, who penned the bronze age gospels, epistles, etc., were wretched liars, who lied through their teeth.

Quran exposed their lies, my non-submitting friend! They falsely turned the son of Mary into a ridiculous God.
You are such a coward and so pathetically addicted to logical fallacies that you could do nothing but ignored my previous post.

Study logics and get over the fallacy of red herring.

Your questions can be applied to your pagan prophet's book too. For instance:

1) Where in the Qur'an does Jesus publicly identify Himself as the Messiah?
2)Where in the Qur'an does Jesus publicly identify Himself as the Word of Allah?
3)Where in the Qur'an does Jesus publicly identify Himself as a Rooh proceeding from Allah?
...........

You have so many things to learn...
Once again, your post cannot be considered a proper submission, Nosubmission, because you did not answer any of the questions, that I had put forward.

All you produced was a useless Tu Quoque. Answer those questions, please! If you cannot answer, please say so.

Your words, "Study logics and get over the fallacy of red herring." not only fail to impress me but they also fail to impress other readers.

Christians claim that Jesus claimed to be so and so. Hence I have asked those questions. If there is any cognizant Christian here, he/she must answer those questions.

Answer first and ask questions later.

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:04 am
by Nosubmission
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote: Once again, your post cannot be considered a proper submission, Nosubmission, because you did not answer any of the questions, that I had put forward.

All you produced was a useless Tu Quoque. Answer those questions, please! If you cannot answer, please say so.

Your words, "Study logics and get over the fallacy of red herring." not only fail to impress me but they also fail to impress other readers.

Christians claim that Jesus claimed to be so and so. Hence I have asked those questions. If there is any cognizant Christian here, he/she must answer those questions.

Answer first and ask questions later.
More examples of red herring fallacy!

I responded to your stupid irrelevant post with similar questions to show your logical fallacy.

Yet you cannot understand even plain English. :D

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:25 am
by Ghalibkhastahaal
Skenderbeg wrote:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote: You know very well that the gospels of the bronze age Bible, are extremely unreliable and errant. We cannot rely on the untrustworthy writers, who wrote them and those who kept on forging them. There is not a single original of anything of the bronze age New testament. Isn't that a shame?
The real shame is that Muslims like you are liars and idiots you attack the very Bible your Allah supported. Allah says no one can change his words ? WAS ALLAH LYING IN THE QURAN OR ARE YOU MUSLIMS LYING NOW ?

Tell me because im really confused with you Muslims, if the bible was corrupted where was Allah to protect his prophets ? and his books ? if the bible is corrupt then your Allah is fake weak and not god..

Mohammed in the Quran is told if he is unsure he should ask people of the books ? Jews and christians. how can he ask people who's books are corrupt ? seems like Muslim brians are whats really corrupt for sure... :worthy:
Allah never supported the stone age Bible or the bronze age Bible and it's bronze age New Testament, in Quran. Quran does not even mention the words Bible and the New Testament, because those were not given to Moses and Jesus.

It is true that Allah said no one can change His words. When we read the man-made stone age to bronze age Bibles, we can find his words intact, which no one dared to change. But the rest of the stuff in those books was not from Allah. Men forged it in and made it up.

Allah does not interfere. Did God save all the prophets who were killed by the Jews? John the great was beheaded. The Jews killed many of their own and they tried to kill another Jew Jesus but he was rescued.

Muhammad was not told about the Bible and the New Testament and he was never asked to refer to those two books. He was not even told to consult the people who had God-given scriptures with them. The message was that people have been given scriptures and if he had any doubts, he could see that others before him had received too. But he had no doubts.

Both the stone age and bronze age Bibles are extremely corrupt and there is no doubt about it. You will not be able to take it, if I walk you through those corrupted books. Have you ever noticed how many perverts have written the two Bibles?

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:52 am
by Nosubmission
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Muhammad was not told about the Bible and the New Testament and he was never asked to refer to those two books. He was not even told to consult the people who had God-given scriptures with them.
Pathetic liar! It is fun to see you write these absurdities. :lol:

And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers. Surah 10:94
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote: The message was that people have been given scriptures and if he had any doubts, he could see that others before him had received too. But he had no doubts.
NO. LIAR! Surah 10:94 asks Muhammad to QUESTION the people who have been READING the book before him. It does not say "SEE that the people RECEIVED the book before you".
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Both the stone age and bronze age Bibles are extremely corrupt and there is no doubt about it. You will not be able to take it, if I walk you through those corrupted books. Have you ever noticed how many perverts have written the two Bibles?
You are a pervert who recklessly distorts the Qur'an for the sake of criticizing the Bible. Pathetic distorter! :D

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:23 am
by Ghalibkhastahaal
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:Jesus didn't even specifically say he was Son of God, but as I clearly showed you, others referred to him that way, even God himself. And it insn't isolated to one book as you attempted to claim. You ignored that post.

As to Jesus saying he was God or connected directly to God somehow, there are some cryptic references that support that, like when he told Phillip that if he has seen him, he has seen the Father, as well as others, so it's not like people are pulling this notion of the Trinity out of thin air. Some verse support the notion, some don't. It's hard to say for sure.
At least you answered one of my four questions honestly and I commend you for that. However, in my view, the same goes for the rest of my questions. There is nothing cryptic, MbL. It is just that the writing is bad, poor and ambiguity arose only after incompetent men started quarreling about his nature. Too many cooks spoiled the Jesus Broth.

If we read John 14, and the famous line he told Philip, the same passage shows he said he was going to the Father in Heaven and he talked about the Father in Heaven. Jesus did not tell Philip, "Philip, I AM the father!"

In the bulk of the verses, he has confirmed that the Father was the God and was working through him. There is nothing cryptic in those verses.

John 20:17 is so plain and obvious, when it shows that he was neither the Father nor God.
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:But let's take a look at what the perfect book that is the letter for letter dictation of Allah has to say about this false Christian concept of "Trinity" or "3 Gods" (not 3 in 1).

5:73. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.

5:5:74. Will they not then turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

75. The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.
So, what is the problem with above? Christians believe: The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Ghost is God. Right?
Trinity confirms that. Doesn't it?
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:116. And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great knower of the unseen things.

So it's clearly telling us that the Christians are wrong for taking Jesus and Mary as part of a Trinity rather than worshiping only Allah. :lol: Perhaps Allah would have preferred if the Christians took Jesus and the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity, because that's what they actually did and Allah never once complained about that. Never even mentioned it :lol:
No. Allah is not saying that all Christians take Mary into the Trinity. The above verse refers to a point in time, i.e., on the Last Day, when Allah will question Jesus.

Christianity of today, was not the same as the Christianity practiced by his followers and the one which was founded centuries after he was gone. The disciples never believed that he was God or the Son of God. Even, Paul, the Liar, did not believe that Jesus was God.

There were hundreds of beliefs about him. Arius, Athanasius and so many bishops were quarreling for two plus centuries. It shows that people had different beliefs back then, when Christians of varying beliefs were running away after Christianity had been formalized under the spears held by Constantine's soldiers .

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:55 am
by Ghalibkhastahaal
Nosubmission wrote:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Muhammad was not told about the Bible and the New Testament and he was never asked to refer to those two books. He was not even told to consult the people who had God-given scriptures with them.
Pathetic liar! It is fun to see you write these absurdities. :lol:

And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers. Surah 10:94
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote: The message was that people have been given scriptures and if he had any doubts, he could see that others before him had received too. But he had no doubts.
NO. LIAR! Surah 10:94 asks Muhammad to QUESTION the people who have been READING the book before him. It does not say "SEE that the people RECEIVED the book before you".
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Both the stone age and bronze age Bibles are extremely corrupt and there is no doubt about it. You will not be able to take it, if I walk you through those corrupted books. Have you ever noticed how many perverts have written the two Bibles?
You are a pervert who recklessly distorts the Qur'an for the sake of criticizing the Bible. Pathetic distorter! :D
Please do not make any further vain submissions, Nosubmission. You are attacking me, not my message, just like the Jews did with Jesus and that is not right.

Still, let me try to help you. Muhammad and Arabs had never received Scriptures or revelations before. Muhammad like Jesus, did not bring anything new. So, he was told that others had the scriptures before. If he had any doubts, he could have asked the Jews and the Christians, "Hey! Did you received Scriptures before?" They would have said, "Yes, Muhammad! We did." That is the essence of the message in the verse.

End of the story. Hope it helped.

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:58 am
by Ghalibkhastahaal
Question to Christians:

Did Jesus teach manners and etiquette? Did he himself teach people to speak nicely with others? If he did, please quote and post here.

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:02 am
by Ghalibkhastahaal
The Cat wrote:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
The Cat wrote:So, to the question: ''Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?''
The answer: Nobody was the father of Jesus.
Agreed! But then it means that... you're plainly admitting Isa's Koranic divinity! Thanks...
Or is it that Allah being this 'nobody', Muslims are but worshiping a 'no one' as The One?
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:How am I am admitting the divinity, when the man had zero divinity?
Well, remember when herein I was wandering why the name of Yashu wasn't written instead of the Hindu attribute that is Isa?


Now, it's all over the place! Search me but it's not rendered as a proper name, as it should have been, but as a VERB: Allah's Will!

Yeshua (Hebrew for Jesus) is Allah's Yasha'u (ie. Will)! Quoting my own notes:
18.23-24: And say not of anything: Lo! I shall do that tomorrow, Except if Allah will ('Illā 'An Yashā'a Allāhu).

There you have it: Yasha'a (plainly Yeshua, Jesus) is God's Will, ie. ISA !

42.19: He provideth for whom He will (Yarzuqu Man Yashā'u).

30.48:Allah is He Who sendeth the winds so that they raise clouds, and spreadeth them along the sky as pleaseth Him (Kayfa Yashā'u),
and causeth them to break and thou seest the rain downpouring from within them. And when He maketh it to fall on whom
He will (Yashā'u Min Ibādihi) of His bondmen, lo! they rejoice;

So, the name of Jesus is written in the Koran: Yashu and, like that of Isa, it means God's Will.

9.15: And He will remove the anger of their hearts. Allah relenteth toward whom He will (Alá Man Yashā'u). Allah is Knower, Wise.

In 9.26-27 Yashu is associated with the Jewish Sekinah (Arabic Sakinah, Peace of Reassurance).

9.26-27: Then Allah sent His peace of reassurance (Sakīnatahu) down upon His messenger and upon the believers,
and sent down hosts ye could not see, and punished those who disbelieved. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
---Then afterward Allah will relent toward whom He will (Yashā'u); for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakina" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the Koran, Isa is but a lordly attribute and Yashu (Yeshua) became a verb: The Verb (will).

24.46: Verily We have sent down revelations and explained them. Allah guideth whom He will (Yashā'u) unto a straight path.
The etymological correspondence is so crystal clear that not a shadow of a doubt can remain: Jesus is attested as Allah's Will, His VERB.

I've said: The conjunction of Isa and Allah is all too well attested in the expression Insha 'Allah (إن شاء الله) ! So God will...
But it's also related to another Arabic term, Mā šāʾ (Masih, Messiah) Allāh (ما شاء الله), which means "God has willed it".

In short, Allah can't possibly act except through that Will, ie His VERB, which was at the beginning just like Jn.1.1: Yasha'u !!!!!!! :yahoo: :banana:

Why doesn't Jesus have a father in the Koran?
Because he's co-substantial WITH Allah (3.59)!
So, Jesus is Inshallah and mashallah? :roflmao: What else is he? You cracked me up.

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:04 am
by Centaur
how would anyone possibly debate this moron, unless they leave their brains behind.
how come isa in Arabic same as Insha Moon god?
Messiah same as Masha Allah
:prop:

Cat is a spinner and sistractor, he doesnt know what he is talking about.The only thing he does here invent new base less stories every day using his half knowledge and google and shout Eureka.

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:08 am
by Ghalibkhastahaal
Centaur wrote:how would anyone possibly debate this moron, unless they leave their brains behind.
This question does not arise. They do not have brains. Did you see any brain in the twelve disciples of Jesus?

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:33 pm
by Nosubmission
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Please do not make any further vain submissions, Nosubmission. You are attacking me, not my message, just like the Jews did with Jesus and that is not right.

I am attacking your message and exposing your LIES. What can I do if this leads us to the conclusion that you are a liar? :D



Still, let me try to help you. Muhammad and Arabs had never received Scriptures or revelations before. Muhammad like Jesus, did not bring anything new. So, he was told that others had the scriptures before. If he had any doubts, he could have asked the Jews and the Christians, "Hey! Did you received Scriptures before?" They would have said, "Yes, Muhammad! We did." That is the essence of the message in the verse.

End of the story. Hope it helped.
What a stupid argument! Not surprised to see that you brought it up though.

Surah 10:94 does not ask Muhammad to question the people whether they received revelation or not. You have been caught lying again.

Your theory makes your Allah look stupid as well.

"Muhammad, if you have doubts, ask those who have been reading the Book before you if they had a revelation". How would it be possible for those people to read the book without receiving it? :roflmao:

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:29 pm
by The Cat
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:Jesus didn't even specifically say he was Son of God....
At least you answered one of my four questions honestly and I commend you for that....
John 17
17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father,
the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Re: Who's the Koranic father of Jesus?

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:07 pm
by The Cat
Centaur wrote:how come isa in Arabic same as Insha Moon god?
Messiah same as Masha Allah

Cat is a spinner and sistractor, he doesnt know what he is talking about.The only thing he does here invent new base less stories every day using his half knowledge and google and shout Eureka.
Go ahead and prove that the Hebrew name for Jesus (Yeshua, YS-h) isn't the ROOT for the Arabic Yasha'u (YS-h), ie. Allah's Will ! :whistling: