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Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:11 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
yeezevee wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:

Then what is somebody supposed to do?? I do not recall you ever answering what we are supposed to make of all the violent verses without any context outside of the Quran? Read sura 4, 8 and 9 with no context and see what you get. A perfect excuse to become a terrorist, that's what you get. There's nothing in it that says kill only this one group of people at this one particular time or under this one particular circumstance, and therefore can easily be applied to the present and any non Muslims under multiple circumstances, or maybe even any circumstance.
What ?? you want The Cat and other Muslims to read Surah "Women"., Surah "Loot-Booty" And Surah "REPENTANCE"?? lol.... Why dear Lying Muhammad?

they are 176+129+75 Damn they are close to 400 verses., that will take a year to explain you what they mean.,


No it doesn't. It might take a year to explain someone's convoluted and invented meaning for them.

yeezevee wrote: I don't think the verses say "Kill every one" ., They only say Kill those who question Prophet and the word of Allah.. .,


Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah??


yeezevee wrote: But then Quran only Muslim will come up say to you., Those Voilent verses are only to the times of Prophet not for today....


And that's precisely the problem with Quran only. The Quran never says it is only for times of the prophet and instead needs an outer context for one to arrive at that conclusion if one even arrives at that conclusion at all. And when we really think about it, if the Quran is supposed to be a book for all times, as it is always touted to be by Muslims, then what are individual calls to arms doing in it?? If it deals specifically with matters of it's time, or historical events, then it belongs in the hadiths. So if it's in the Quran, one could make the case that it doesn't just deal with the times of the prophet only, it's supposed to be an instruction for all times until Allah's religion reigns supreme.

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:54 pm
by yeezevee
Ok..Ok., Now I have problems., I have to deal with many of you guys which indeed is hard because some of you(if not all) are smart ..lol..

So what say dear skynightblaze
skynightblaze wrote:
yeezevee wrote: I have no idea, but The Cat is trying valiantly.well that is NOT your problem., it is Cat's problem and other Quran only Muslim problem. What all they are asking from you is "PLEASE SUPPORT US IN OUR ENDEAVOR" making all Muslims to follow Quran only and no more hadith. Would you mind giving support to them??


How can anyone support you Yekee? We will support elimination of both quran + hadiths and not just hadiths.WE cant tolerate quran either. Einstein's(CAT) ideas are crazy . He is telling here to consider quran as the book of law.
No..no.., It is not book of law for you., it is book of law for Muslim folks.., there is abig differnec between the two.

O.k., you can not tolerate Quran??? why?? is it whole Quran or only some verses of Quran that bother you dear SKB??

You see, The moment The Cat agrees "that it doesn't matter Quran is word of Allah /God or not" and it is law book and is only to Muslims to follow and others need not worry., then where is the problem with people like you dear SKB? The problem he is creating is to those who oppose people like you. SO why not give an helping hand to these Quran only folks??

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:05 pm
by yeezevee
Wootah wrote:Koran only muslims are possibly the worst thing to happen to the world in regards to Islam. With the hadith any child with an education can easily see how crazy the ideology is. With just the koran and a solid fundamental islamic education you get to the true meaning of the koran. It is a war cry for a long dead mad man.

http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/stat ... rt-4-of-9/

............
that is a good link to read dear Wootah., but I didn't get your red colored words., Quran only Muslim are possibly the worst thing to happen to Islam? or Muslim? or non Muslims/rest of the world??

with best
yeezevee

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:11 pm
by yeezevee
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
yeezevee wrote:........
they are 176+129+75 Damn they are close to 400 verses., that will take a year to explain you what they mean.,

No it doesn't. It might take a year to explain someone's convoluted and invented meaning for them.
you think so?? you mean to say it takes a week or so?? but AhmedBahgat took a year or so and still he says it is not right, O.k.., thene let us read those 3 chapters and see where the problems are
yeezevee wrote: I don't think the verses say "Kill every one" ., They only say Kill those who question Prophet and the word of Allah.. .,

Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah??

Which verses say that?? Let us see whether the translation is right or wrong ., Or..or...we can modify/soften a bit on that...
yeezevee wrote: But then Quran only Muslim will come up say to you., Those Voilent verses are only to the times of Prophet not for today....

And that's precisely the problem with Quran only. The Quran never says it is only for times of the prophet a....
But it also doesn't say every verse of Quran is fit for all times.. does it??

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:03 pm
by The Cat
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah??

Let us see how radiant is the knowledge of our tribal hatred-team concerning the Koran?

1) What is the Koranic DEEN, usually (but quite imperfectly) translated 'religion'?

2) What is the Koranic 'Islam'? What does it mean within the Koranic context? Is it written that often?

3) Who are the Koranic 'Muslims'? Are they called to follow hadiths or the previous scriptures?

4) What is the Koranic 'Shariah'? For it is mentioned 4 times, I'm sure you knew that.

Come on, after all you've got to know what you're opposed to?

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:19 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
yeezevee wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
yeezevee wrote:[

they are 176+129+75 Damn they are close to 400 verses., that will take a year to explain you what they mean.,

No it doesn't. It might take a year to explain someone's convoluted and invented meaning for them.
you think so?? you mean to say it takes a week or so?? but AhmedBahgat took a year or so and still he says it is not right, O.k.., thene let us read those 3 chapters and see where the problems are
yeezevee wrote: I don't think the verses say "Kill every one" ., They only say Kill those who question Prophet and the word of Allah.. .,

Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah??

Which verses say that?? Let us see whether the translation is right or wrong ., Or..or...we can modify/soften a bit on that...


Shakir, your admitted favorite.
2:193. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah
8:39. And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.


yeezevee wrote: But then Quran only Muslim will come up say to you., Those Voilent verses are only to the times of Prophet not for today....

And that's precisely the problem with Quran only. The Quran never says it is only for times of the prophet a....[/quote]

yeezevee wrote:But it also doesn't say ever verse of Quran is fit for all times.. does it??


So some of the Quran is not fit for modern times?? Is that what you are saying??

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:34 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
The Cat wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah??

Let us see how radiant is the knowledge of our tribal hatred-team concerning the Koran?


What does hatred have to do with any of this??? If you want to know what should be hated, it's stupid little ploys like trying to change this all into hatred so that the clear facts get masked.

The Cat wrote:1) What is the Koranic DEEN, usually (but quite imperfectly) translated 'religion'?

2) What is the Koranic 'Islam'? What does it mean within the Koranic context? Is it written that often?

3) Who are the Koranic 'Muslims'? Are they called to follow hadiths or the previous scriptures?

4) What is the Koranic 'Shariah'? For it is mentioned 4 times, I'm sure you knew that.

Come on, after all you've got to know what you're opposed to?


Whether we truly understand the Quran or not does not solve the problem of the errors. What solves that problem is a proper answer to them, which you can never seem to offer. So I believe your attempt at evasion or diversion should be recognized and properly rejected.

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:41 pm
by yeezevee
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
Shakir, your admitted favorite.
2:193. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah
8:39. And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do
.

Yes, I think Shakir is the closest translation to the Arabic version we have., .. The Cat it is for you to make Muhammad bin Lyin understand those verses ., I have to go for now...lol..

yeezevee wrote:But it also doesn't say ever verse of Quran is fit for all times.. does it??

"Muhammad bin Lyin": So some of the Quran is not fit for modern times?? Is that what you are saying??

Yes., That is what I mean to say., In fact, I say whole Quran may, may not be fit if one is NOT Muslim. it is up to the individual., If one is Muslim, All those ayahs are Not prescribed to follow in the present day. Some of them are only when Prophet of Islam was alive where he can Judge whether the followers were doing right or wrong., In absence of Prophet, No one should force other Muslims or non-Muslims whether one is following Laws/rules of Quran or not., it is for individuals., They can not even force it on their own kith and kin...

That is the point I would like to see Quran only Muslims propagate from understanding of their Quran based Islam.

with best regards
yeezevee

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:45 pm
by The Cat
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
The Cat wrote:1) What is the Koranic DEEN, usually (but quite imperfectly) translated 'religion'?

2) What is the Koranic 'Islam'? What does it mean within the Koranic context? Is it written that often?

3) Who are the Koranic 'Muslims'? Are they called to follow hadiths or the previous scriptures?

4) What is the Koranic 'Shariah'? For it is mentioned 4 times, I'm sure you knew that.

Come on, after all you've got to know what you're opposed to?


Whether we truly understand the Quran or not does not solve the problem of the errors. What solves that problem is a proper answer to them, which you can never seem to offer. So I believe your attempt at evasion or diversion should be recognized and properly rejected.

In other words, you're totally clueless about what you're attacking !
Noted. :roflmao:

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:55 pm
by Brendalee
Hello Cat!

The Muslims started killing folks immediately upon Mohammad's Medina revelations. Long before the ahadith we find the Muslim armies spreading out looting, killing, destroying, raping, and enslaving their non-Muslim neighbours.

You obviously have a different approach from many others at FFI. Fine, this is your right.

Why do you think it is alright for you to insist that anyone who does not think like you is a "hater". Why do you so insist that you can have your own opinion, but no one else may have theirs but have some weird obligation to simply agree with what you say and not think for themselves? Isn't this imposition of ideas which are to be accepted whether one believes them or not enshrined in the Quran as a part of Islam? Even if the Quran did not specify to kill Apostates, it paints them as enemies of this particularly twisted "god" author.

I never would have pegged you as someone opposed to free thought and free speech.

You claim that Islam can only be effectively fought from the "inside" - so why do you spend your time here instead of devoting it to Muslim sites? Do not forget that FFI is also targeted on NON Muslims - people who do not recognise Islam as a threat.

True enough, the ahadith de-humanises Islam even more; but there is plenty of inspiration for hatred and killing in just the Quran.

Wala wa bara.

And incidentally, the ahadith are not OUR problem. You need to convince about a billion Muslims or so; so why do you waste time trying vainly to convince the unconvinced here?

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:27 pm
by AhmedBahgat
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah??


The Cat wrote: Let us see how radiant is the knowledge of our tribal hatred-team concerning the Koran?

1) What is the Koranic DEEN, usually (but quite imperfectly) translated 'religion'?

2) What is the Koranic 'Islam'? What does it mean within the Koranic context? Is it written that often?

3) Who are the Koranic 'Muslims'? Are they called to follow hadiths or the previous scriptures?

4) What is the Koranic 'Shariah'? For it is mentioned 4 times, I'm sure you knew that.

Come on, after all you've got to know what you're opposed to?


Dear The Cat

What sort of reply was that?

Don’t you know that you are dealing with the dumbest kafir on FFI? Yep the dumbest, his name is Ugly Bin Lyin, look at him, he does not only look like a dumb and filthy child molester, he is indeed a filthy child molester (according to his own admission on FFI) and the dumbest. Look how dumb he is in presenting his faggy argument, haha

Ugly Bin Lyin brought to you a sentence from the whole Quran. Not even the whole verse, the ugly molester. How deceitful, yet that does not qualify him to be a conman, I reckon he might qualify to be a conwoman who will eventually turn to prostitution because she was too dumb to con anyone.

Let me show how to slam dunk that filthy illogical cheating and deluded freak of a child molester:

I searched the Quran and found that the sentence presented by the conwoman Ugly: Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah. to appear in two verses: 2:193 & 8:39

We should see clearly and irrefutably that in both locations the command to fight the unbelievers was fighting the aggressors, not initiating the fight, and in both locations the fight was all about enforcing Allah possession of His house in Mecca. Let’s get the slam dunk going:

1- For 2:193, I will walk you through from verse 2:190 to verse 2:194

Clear commands to fight those who start fighting us, and to never start the fight:
وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُحِبِّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ (190)
And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight you; and be not transgressors, indeed, Allah does not love the transgressors.
[Al Quran ; 2:190]

-> See: fight in the way of Allah with those who fight you; and be not transgressors

The war between Muslims and Kafirs because of the Kabba clearly started by the kafirs, i.e. the aggressors were the kafirs who started the war and expelled the Muslims from their land, and all because of the House in which they don’t even believe that it belongs to Allah alone and His worshippers:
وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاء الْكَافِرِينَ (191)
And kill them wherever you confront them, and expel them from wherever they expelled you; and discord (between yourself) is worse than murder. And do not fight them at the sacred mosque until they fight you therein; and if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the reward of the unbelievers.
[Al Quran ; 2:191]

-> See: expel them from wherever they expelled you. And do not fight them at the sacred mosque until they fight you therein; and if they fight you, then kill them.

And if the kafirs stop their aggression on the Muslims and the House of Allah, then Allah may forgive them:
فَإِنِ انتَهَوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (192)
But if they stop (fighting you), then indeed, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[Al Quran ; 2:192]

-> See: But if they stop (fighting you), then indeed, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Then we come to the verse in question, which is confirming that previous verse, i.e. if the unjust and perpetrating kafirs stop causing discord to or fighting us because of our ownership of the House of Allah and how we worship Him around it (our religion), then we should not fight them any more:
وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَواْ فَلاَ عُدْوَانَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ (193)
And fight them until there is no discord and the religion is for Allah, but if they stop, then there should be no transgression except against the unjust.
[Al Quran ; 2:193]

-> See: fight them until there is no discord and the religion is for Allah. And but if they stop, then there should be no transgression except against the unjust.

The next verse also confirm that the Muslims were not who initiated the fight, rather the unjust kafirs:
الشَّهْرُ الْحَرَامُ بِالشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ وَالْحُرُمَاتُ قِصَاصٌ فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُواْ عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ (194)
The sacred month for the sacred month, and for all violations are legal retribution; so whoever inflicts damage to you, then inflict damage to him in the same way he has inflicted damage to you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear.
[Al Quran ; 2:194]

-> See: so whoever inflicts damage to you, then inflict damage to him in the same way he has inflicted damage to you.

From the above we can irrefutable conclude the following:

A- The fight is because of the House of Allah and its ownership and how the rituals of worshipping Allah should be performed around it, i.e. the religion of Islam.

B- The kafirs were the ones who started hostility by either causing discord between the Muslims or by starting to fight them.

C- The Muslims are commanded to only fight those who fight or cause discord between them on their land.

D- The Muslims are commanded to cease fighting if the unjust kafirs ceased fighting because of the religion of Allah (the religion they don’t believe in it from the first place)

E- The damage the Muslims should do to the unjust kafirs must be equal to the damage the unjust kafirs did to the Muslims.


2- For 8:39, it is talking about the same as the above verses, in fact it even gave us some details concerning how the unjust kafirs started to cause discord and fight the Muslims to expel them from their place of worship (the House of Allah). I will walk you through from verse 8:30 to verse 8:40

Here is the unjust kafirs planning to restrain or kill or expel Muhammed:
وَإِذْ يَمْكُرُ بِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لِيُثْبِتُوكَ أَوْ يَقْتُلُوكَ أَوْ يُخْرِجُوكَ وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللّهُ وَاللّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ (30)
And when those who have disbelieved planned against you to restrain you or kill you or expel you; and they plan and Allah plans, and Allah is the best of planners.
[Al Quran ; 8:30]

-> See: And when those who have disbelieved planned against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you;

And that was only because he delivered the message of their Lord to them:
وَإِذَا تُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا قَالُواْ قَدْ سَمِعْنَا لَوْ نَشَاء لَقُلْنَا مِثْلَ هَذَا إِنْ هَذَا إِلاَّ أَسَاطِيرُ الأوَّلِينَ (31)
And when Our signs are recited to them, they say: We have heard, if we will, we would have said like this; indeed, this is only legends of the former.
[Al Quran ; 8:31]

-> See: when Our signs are recited to them, they say: We have heard, if we will, we would have said like this; indeed, this is only legends of the former.

They even showed arrogance and hostility to the delivered message:
وَإِذْ قَالُواْ اللَّهُمَّ إِن كَانَ هَذَا هُوَ الْحَقَّ مِنْ عِندِكَ فَأَمْطِرْ عَلَيْنَا حِجَارَةً مِّنَ السَّمَاء أَوِ ائْتِنَا بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ (32)
And when they said: O Allah! If this is the truth from You, then rain upon us stones from the sky or bring us a painful torture.
[Al Quran ; 8:32]

-> See: And when they said: O Allah! If this is the truth from You, then rain upon us stones from the sky or bring us a painful torture.

But Allah will not punish them while the messenger is still delivering the message and while some of them recognise their mistakes and seek forgiveness:
وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ لِيُعَذِّبَهُمْ وَأَنتَ فِيهِمْ وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ مُعَذِّبَهُمْ وَهُمْ يَسْتَغْفِرُونَ (33)
But Allah would not castigate them while you are among them, and Allah will not castigate them while they seek forgiveness.
[Al Quran ; 8:33]

-> See: Allah would not castigate them while you are among them, and Allah will not castigate them while they seek forgiveness.

This verse clearly explains that all those unjust kafirs doing was to hinder others from the House of Allah by considering themselves its guardians while the fact of the matter they are not its guardians:
وَمَا لَهُمْ أَلاَّ يُعَذِّبَهُمُ اللّهُ وَهُمْ يَصُدُّونَ عَنِ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَمَا كَانُواْ أَوْلِيَاءهُ إِنْ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُ إِلاَّ الْمُتَّقُونَ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ (34)
And why should Allah not castigate them while they hinder from the sacred mosque. And they are not its guardians; indeed, its guardians are only the pious but most of them do not know.
[Al Quran ; 8:34]

-> See: while they hinder from the sacred mosque. And they are not its guardians; indeed, its guardians are only the pious but most of them do not know.

It was all about the House of Allah, it is never about fighting the kafirs on their land, see this discord the unjust kafirs were trying to do to the sincere worshippers of Allah at His house:
وَمَا كَانَ صَلاَتُهُمْ عِندَ الْبَيْتِ إِلاَّ مُكَاء وَتَصْدِيَةً فَذُوقُواْ الْعَذَابَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْفُرُونَ (35)
And their prayer at the house was not except whistling and hindering. So taste the torture because of that in which you used to disbelieve.
[Al Quran ; 8:35]

-> See: their prayer at the house was not except whistling and hindering.

And they even tried to spend their wealth to hinder the sincere worshippers of Allah from worshipping Him at His house:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ يُنفِقُونَ أَمْوَالَهُمْ لِيَصُدُّواْ عَن سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَسَيُنفِقُونَهَا ثُمَّ تَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ حَسْرَةً ثُمَّ يُغْلَبُونَ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ إِلَى جَهَنَّمَ يُحْشَرُونَ (36)
Indeed, those who have disbelieved spend their wealth to hinder from the way of Allah. So they will spend it, then it shall be upon them regret; moreover, they will be defeated. And those who have disbelieved will be, unto hell, gathered.
[Al Quran ; 8:36]

-> See: those who have disbelieved spend their wealth to hinder from the way of Allah.

The whole affair at the House of Allah was to differentiate between the believers and the unbelievers:
لِيَمِيزَ اللّهُ الْخَبِيثَ مِنَ الطَّيِّبِ وَيَجْعَلَ الْخَبِيثَ بَعْضَهُ عَلَىَ بَعْضٍ فَيَرْكُمَهُ جَمِيعاً فَيَجْعَلَهُ فِي جَهَنَّمَ أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ (37)
So that Allah may distinguish the wicked from the good and place the wicked some of them upon others, and pile it together and put it into hell. Those are the ones who are losers.
[Al Quran ; 8:37]

-> See: So that Allah may distinguish the wicked from the good

And the same is said in here, if the unjust kafirs stop their plans to hinder others from the house of Allah, then Allah may forgive them:
قُل لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ إِن يَنتَهُواْ يُغَفَرْ لَهُم مَّا قَدْ سَلَفَ وَإِنْ يَعُودُواْ فَقَدْ مَضَتْ سُنَّةُ الأَوَّلِينِ (38)
Say to those who have disbelieved that if they cease (hostility), what has passed will be forgiven for them; but if they return, then the precedent of the former (people) has already passed.
[Al Quran ; 8:38]

-> See: Say to those who have disbelieved that if they cease (hostility), what has passed will be forgiven for them; But if they return to be hostile again: but if they return, then the precedent of the former (people) has already passed. Then what will happen to then will be the same as what happened to the former people who rejected the message of their messengers then hindered others from believing in it

Here comes the verse in question, in which we read the same thing we read in sura 2, we should fight the unjust kafirs who consider themselves the guardians of the house of Allah so they hinder others from worshipping Allah in it:
وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ كُلُّهُ لِلّه فَإِنِ انتَهَوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ (39)
And fight them until there is no discord and (until) all the religion belongs to Allah. But if they cease (hostility), then indeed, Allah is of what they do Seeing.
[Al Quran ; 8:39]

-> See, they want to manipulate the religion of Allah, the religion that has pilgrimage to the House of Allah to worship Him as main part of it, yet the kafirs want to hinder others from embracing this religion by hindering them from the house of Allah, i.e. the religion of Allah would have belonged to them, not to Allah, that is why we shoud fight them until the religion of Allah (the ouse of Allah and its rituals) only belongs to Him: fight them until there is no discord and (until) all the religion belongs to Allah. But if they cease (hostility), then indeed, Allah is of what they do Seeing.

And again, if the unjust kafirs cease hostility, then it would only because Allah is our Guardians and He will help His worshippers when they fight the unjust kafirs:
وَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَوْلاَكُمْ نِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ (40)

And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Guardian. Excellent is the Guardian and excellent is the Helper.
[Al Quran ; 8:40]

-> See: And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Guardian. Excellent is the Guardian and excellent is the Helper.

And again, from the above verses, we can irrefutably conclude:

A- The fight is because of the House of Allah and its ownership and how the rituals of worshipping Allah should be performed around it, i.e. the religion of Islam.

B- The unjust kafirs did their best and spend their wealth in planning to restrain or kill or expel the messenger of Allah

C- The messenger of Allah only delivered the message to them, he never started any hostility, it was the kafirs who always did especially seeing Muhammed trying to reclaim back the house of Allah as part of his mission.

D- The Muslims are commanded to cease fighting if the unjust kafirs ceased fighting because of the religion of Allah (the religion they don’t believe in it from the first place)

Here you have it The Cat, you should tell that Ugly, filthy dumb piece of shifty conwoman Bin lyin, that next time he presents a Quran argument, he should not bring a word or a sentence that suits his shifty arse, it is not going to work and will only proves his shiftiness and stupidity. Tell that punk that the fight the Quran is talking about is about an Islamic property on an Islamic land since the time of Ibrahim.

And don’t forget to tell that ugly and dumb sharmooot of a filthy piece of stinky faeces that he has been mother slammed:

Image

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:58 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
The Cat wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
The Cat wrote:1) What is the Koranic DEEN, usually (but quite imperfectly) translated 'religion'?

2) What is the Koranic 'Islam'? What does it mean within the Koranic context? Is it written that often?

3) Who are the Koranic 'Muslims'? Are they called to follow hadiths or the previous scriptures?

4) What is the Koranic 'Shariah'? For it is mentioned 4 times, I'm sure you knew that.

Come on, after all you've got to know what you're opposed to?


Whether we truly understand the Quran or not does not solve the problem of the errors. What solves that problem is a proper answer to them, which you can never seem to offer. So I believe your attempt at evasion or diversion should be recognized and properly rejected.

In other words, you're totally clueless about what you're attacking !
Noted. :roflmao:


No, you are answering questions with questions and are being evasive and therefore deceptive. It's not the first time I've had to face this Islamic mental illness where someone thinks they are behaving correctly by being this way. It's pretty easy to identify.

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:26 am
by Muhammad bin Lyin
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah??


The Cat wrote: Let us see how radiant is the knowledge of our tribal hatred-team concerning the Koran?

1) What is the Koranic DEEN, usually (but quite imperfectly) translated 'religion'?

2) What is the Koranic 'Islam'? What does it mean within the Koranic context? Is it written that often?

3) Who are the Koranic 'Muslims'? Are they called to follow hadiths or the previous scriptures?

4) What is the Koranic 'Shariah'? For it is mentioned 4 times, I'm sure you knew that.

Come on, after all you've got to know what you're opposed to?


Dear The Cat

What sort of reply was that?

Don’t you know that you are dealing with the dumbest kafir on FFI? Yep the dumbest, his name is Ugly Bin Lyin, look at him, he does not only look like a dumb and filthy child molester, he is indeed a filthy child molester (according to his own admission on FFI) and the dumbest. Look how dumb he is in presenting his faggy argument, haha

Ugly Bin Lyin brought to you a sentence from the whole Quran. Not even the whole verse, the ugly molester. How deceitful, yet that does not qualify him to be a conman, I reckon he might qualify to be a conwoman who will eventually turn to prostitution because she was too dumb to con anyone.

Let me show how to slam dunk that filthy illogical cheating and deluded freak of a child molester:

I searched the Quran and found that the sentence presented by the conwoman Ugly: Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah. to appear in two verses: 2:193 & 8:39

We should see clearly and irrefutably that in both locations the command to fight the unbelievers was fighting the aggressors, not initiating the fight, and in both locations the fight was all about enforcing Allah possession of His house in Mecca. Let’s get the slam dunk going:

1- For 2:193, I will walk you through from verse 2:190 to verse 2:194

Clear commands to fight those who start fighting us, and to never start the fight:
وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُحِبِّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ (190)
And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight you; and be not transgressors, indeed, Allah does not love the transgressors.
[Al Quran ; 2:190]

-> See: fight in the way of Allah with those who fight you; and be not transgressors

The war between Muslims and Kafirs because of the Kabba clearly started by the kafirs, i.e. the aggressors were the kafirs who started the war and expelled the Muslims from their land, and all because of the House in which they don’t even believe that it belongs to Allah alone and His worshippers:
وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاء الْكَافِرِينَ (191)
And kill them wherever you confront them, and expel them from wherever they expelled you; and discord (between yourself) is worse than murder. And do not fight them at the sacred mosque until they fight you therein; and if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the reward of the unbelievers.
[Al Quran ; 2:191]

-> See: expel them from wherever they expelled you. And do not fight them at the sacred mosque until they fight you therein; and if they fight you, then kill them.

And if the kafirs stop their aggression on the Muslims and the House of Allah, then Allah may forgive them:
فَإِنِ انتَهَوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (192)
But if they stop (fighting you), then indeed, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[Al Quran ; 2:192]

-> See: But if they stop (fighting you), then indeed, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Then we come to the verse in question, which is confirming that previous verse, i.e. if the unjust and perpetrating kafirs stop causing discord to or fighting us because of our ownership of the House of Allah and how we worship Him around it (our religion), then we should not fight them any more:
وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَواْ فَلاَ عُدْوَانَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ (193)
And fight them until there is no discord and the religion is for Allah, but if they stop, then there should be no transgression except against the unjust.
[Al Quran ; 2:193]

-> See: fight them until there is no discord and the religion is for Allah. And but if they stop, then there should be no transgression except against the unjust.

The next verse also confirm that the Muslims were not who initiated the fight, rather the unjust kafirs:
الشَّهْرُ الْحَرَامُ بِالشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ وَالْحُرُمَاتُ قِصَاصٌ فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُواْ عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ (194)
The sacred month for the sacred month, and for all violations are legal retribution; so whoever inflicts damage to you, then inflict damage to him in the same way he has inflicted damage to you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear.
[Al Quran ; 2:194]

-> See: so whoever inflicts damage to you, then inflict damage to him in the same way he has inflicted damage to you.

From the above we can irrefutable conclude the following:

A- The fight is because of the House of Allah and its ownership and how the rituals of worshipping Allah should be performed around it, i.e. the religion of Islam.

B- The kafirs were the ones who started hostility by either causing discord between the Muslims or by starting to fight them.

C- The Muslims are commanded to only fight those who fight or cause discord between them on their land.

D- The Muslims are commanded to cease fighting if the unjust kafirs ceased fighting because of the religion of Allah (the religion they don’t believe in it from the first place)

E- The damage the Muslims should do to the unjust kafirs must be equal to the damage the unjust kafirs did to the Muslims.


2- For 8:39, it is talking about the same as the above verses, in fact it even gave us some details concerning how the unjust kafirs started to cause discord and fight the Muslims to expel them from their place of worship (the House of Allah). I will walk you through from verse 8:30 to verse 8:40

Here is the unjust kafirs planning to restrain or kill or expel Muhammed:
وَإِذْ يَمْكُرُ بِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لِيُثْبِتُوكَ أَوْ يَقْتُلُوكَ أَوْ يُخْرِجُوكَ وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللّهُ وَاللّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ (30)
And when those who have disbelieved planned against you to restrain you or kill you or expel you; and they plan and Allah plans, and Allah is the best of planners.
[Al Quran ; 8:30]

-> See: And when those who have disbelieved planned against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you;

And that was only because he delivered the message of their Lord to them:
وَإِذَا تُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا قَالُواْ قَدْ سَمِعْنَا لَوْ نَشَاء لَقُلْنَا مِثْلَ هَذَا إِنْ هَذَا إِلاَّ أَسَاطِيرُ الأوَّلِينَ (31)
And when Our signs are recited to them, they say: We have heard, if we will, we would have said like this; indeed, this is only legends of the former.
[Al Quran ; 8:31]

-> See: when Our signs are recited to them, they say: We have heard, if we will, we would have said like this; indeed, this is only legends of the former.

They even showed arrogance and hostility to the delivered message:
وَإِذْ قَالُواْ اللَّهُمَّ إِن كَانَ هَذَا هُوَ الْحَقَّ مِنْ عِندِكَ فَأَمْطِرْ عَلَيْنَا حِجَارَةً مِّنَ السَّمَاء أَوِ ائْتِنَا بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ (32)
And when they said: O Allah! If this is the truth from You, then rain upon us stones from the sky or bring us a painful torture.
[Al Quran ; 8:32]

-> See: And when they said: O Allah! If this is the truth from You, then rain upon us stones from the sky or bring us a painful torture.

But Allah will not punish them while the messenger is still delivering the message and while some of them recognise their mistakes and seek forgiveness:
وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ لِيُعَذِّبَهُمْ وَأَنتَ فِيهِمْ وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ مُعَذِّبَهُمْ وَهُمْ يَسْتَغْفِرُونَ (33)
But Allah would not castigate them while you are among them, and Allah will not castigate them while they seek forgiveness.
[Al Quran ; 8:33]

-> See: Allah would not castigate them while you are among them, and Allah will not castigate them while they seek forgiveness.

This verse clearly explains that all those unjust kafirs doing was to hinder others from the House of Allah by considering themselves its guardians while the fact of the matter they are not its guardians:
وَمَا لَهُمْ أَلاَّ يُعَذِّبَهُمُ اللّهُ وَهُمْ يَصُدُّونَ عَنِ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَمَا كَانُواْ أَوْلِيَاءهُ إِنْ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُ إِلاَّ الْمُتَّقُونَ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ (34)
And why should Allah not castigate them while they hinder from the sacred mosque. And they are not its guardians; indeed, its guardians are only the pious but most of them do not know.
[Al Quran ; 8:34]

-> See: while they hinder from the sacred mosque. And they are not its guardians; indeed, its guardians are only the pious but most of them do not know.

It was all about the House of Allah, it is never about fighting the kafirs on their land, see this discord the unjust kafirs were trying to do to the sincere worshippers of Allah at His house:
وَمَا كَانَ صَلاَتُهُمْ عِندَ الْبَيْتِ إِلاَّ مُكَاء وَتَصْدِيَةً فَذُوقُواْ الْعَذَابَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْفُرُونَ (35)
And their prayer at the house was not except whistling and hindering. So taste the torture because of that in which you used to disbelieve.
[Al Quran ; 8:35]

-> See: their prayer at the house was not except whistling and hindering.

And they even tried to spend their wealth to hinder the sincere worshippers of Allah from worshipping Him at His house:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ يُنفِقُونَ أَمْوَالَهُمْ لِيَصُدُّواْ عَن سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَسَيُنفِقُونَهَا ثُمَّ تَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ حَسْرَةً ثُمَّ يُغْلَبُونَ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ إِلَى جَهَنَّمَ يُحْشَرُونَ (36)
Indeed, those who have disbelieved spend their wealth to hinder from the way of Allah. So they will spend it, then it shall be upon them regret; moreover, they will be defeated. And those who have disbelieved will be, unto hell, gathered.
[Al Quran ; 8:36]

-> See: those who have disbelieved spend their wealth to hinder from the way of Allah.

The whole affair at the House of Allah was to differentiate between the believers and the unbelievers:
لِيَمِيزَ اللّهُ الْخَبِيثَ مِنَ الطَّيِّبِ وَيَجْعَلَ الْخَبِيثَ بَعْضَهُ عَلَىَ بَعْضٍ فَيَرْكُمَهُ جَمِيعاً فَيَجْعَلَهُ فِي جَهَنَّمَ أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ (37)
So that Allah may distinguish the wicked from the good and place the wicked some of them upon others, and pile it together and put it into hell. Those are the ones who are losers.
[Al Quran ; 8:37]

-> See: So that Allah may distinguish the wicked from the good

And the same is said in here, if the unjust kafirs stop their plans to hinder others from the house of Allah, then Allah may forgive them:
قُل لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ إِن يَنتَهُواْ يُغَفَرْ لَهُم مَّا قَدْ سَلَفَ وَإِنْ يَعُودُواْ فَقَدْ مَضَتْ سُنَّةُ الأَوَّلِينِ (38)
Say to those who have disbelieved that if they cease (hostility), what has passed will be forgiven for them; but if they return, then the precedent of the former (people) has already passed.
[Al Quran ; 8:38]

-> See: Say to those who have disbelieved that if they cease (hostility), what has passed will be forgiven for them; But if they return to be hostile again: but if they return, then the precedent of the former (people) has already passed. Then what will happen to then will be the same as what happened to the former people who rejected the message of their messengers then hindered others from believing in it

Here comes the verse in question, in which we read the same thing we read in sura 2, we should fight the unjust kafirs who consider themselves the guardians of the house of Allah so they hinder others from worshipping Allah in it:
وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ كُلُّهُ لِلّه فَإِنِ انتَهَوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ (39)
And fight them until there is no discord and (until) all the religion belongs to Allah. But if they cease (hostility), then indeed, Allah is of what they do Seeing.
[Al Quran ; 8:39]

-> See, they want to manipulate the religion of Allah, the religion that has pilgrimage to the House of Allah to worship Him as main part of it, yet the kafirs want to hinder others from embracing this religion by hindering them from the house of Allah, i.e. the religion of Allah would have belonged to them, not to Allah, that is why we shoud fight them until the religion of Allah (the ouse of Allah and its rituals) only belongs to Him: fight them until there is no discord and (until) all the religion belongs to Allah. But if they cease (hostility), then indeed, Allah is of what they do Seeing.

And again, if the unjust kafirs cease hostility, then it would only because Allah is our Guardians and He will help His worshippers when they fight the unjust kafirs:
وَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَوْلاَكُمْ نِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ (40)

And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Guardian. Excellent is the Guardian and excellent is the Helper.
[Al Quran ; 8:40]

-> See: And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Guardian. Excellent is the Guardian and excellent is the Helper.

And again, from the above verses, we can irrefutably conclude:

A- The fight is because of the House of Allah and its ownership and how the rituals of worshipping Allah should be performed around it, i.e. the religion of Islam.

B- The unjust kafirs did their best and spend their wealth in planning to restrain or kill or expel the messenger of Allah

C- The messenger of Allah only delivered the message to them, he never started any hostility, it was the kafirs who always did especially seeing Muhammed trying to reclaim back the house of Allah as part of his mission.

D- The Muslims are commanded to cease fighting if the unjust kafirs ceased fighting because of the religion of Allah (the religion they don’t believe in it from the first place)

Here you have it The Cat, you should tell that Ugly, filthy dumb piece of shifty conwoman Bin lyin, that next time he presents a Quran argument, he should not bring a word or a sentence that suits his shifty arse, it is not going to work and will only proves his shiftiness and stupidity. Tell that punk that the fight the Quran is talking about is about an Islamic property on an Islamic land since the time of Ibrahim.

And don’t forget to tell that ugly and dumb sharmooot of a filthy piece of stinky faeces that he has been mother slammed:

Image


And for all of the verses you quoted, it still didn't make a difference. The verses I quoted still said until "ALL" religion is for Allah, or perhaps religion itself is for Allah. It could even mean that Allah's religion is merely superior and it would still be essentially the same point. And ceasing hostility means acknowledging the superiority of Islam and being subjugated by it with the jizyah in shame and submission. Nothing but yet another of many stupid diversions

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:06 am
by skynightblaze
yeezevee wrote:Ok..Ok., Now I have problems., I have to deal with many of you guys which indeed is hard because some of you(if not all) are smart ..lol..

So what say dear skynightblaze
skynightblaze wrote:
yeezevee wrote: I have no idea, but The Cat is trying valiantly.well that is NOT your problem., it is Cat's problem and other Quran only Muslim problem. What all they are asking from you is "PLEASE SUPPORT US IN OUR ENDEAVOR" making all Muslims to follow Quran only and no more hadith. Would you mind giving support to them??


How can anyone support you Yekee? We will support elimination of both quran + hadiths and not just hadiths.WE cant tolerate quran either. Einstein's(CAT) ideas are crazy . He is telling here to consider quran as the book of law.
No..no.., It is not book of law for you., it is book of law for Muslim folks.., there is abig differnec between the two.

O.k., you can not tolerate Quran??? why?? is it whole Quran or only some verses of Quran that bother you dear SKB??

You see, The moment The Cat agrees "that it doesn't matter Quran is word of Allah /God or not" and it is law book and is only to Muslims to follow and others need not worry., then where is the problem with people like you dear SKB? The problem he is creating is to those who oppose people like you. SO why not give an helping hand to these Quran only folks??


If they follow quran it threatens my existence. I am not saying all of the muslims become a threat to me but those who follow take the literal meaning and turn into terrorist are a harm to me. Now even if 1 % of muslims become terrorists or implement nauseating shariah laws I am at stake. WE cant allow such poisonous system to rule us.

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:13 am
by skynightblaze
The Cat wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
The Cat wrote:1) What is the Koranic DEEN, usually (but quite imperfectly) translated 'religion'?

2) What is the Koranic 'Islam'? What does it mean within the Koranic context? Is it written that often?

3) Who are the Koranic 'Muslims'? Are they called to follow hadiths or the previous scriptures?

4) What is the Koranic 'Shariah'? For it is mentioned 4 times, I'm sure you knew that.

Come on, after all you've got to know what you're opposed to?


Whether we truly understand the Quran or not does not solve the problem of the errors. What solves that problem is a proper answer to them, which you can never seem to offer. So I believe your attempt at evasion or diversion should be recognized and properly rejected.

In other words, you're totally clueless about what you're attacking !
Noted. :roflmao:


Didnt your American Constitution aka Quran or the book of law tell you that when a smiley following a post with zero merit is made then stupidity increases manifold? :lol: Dude MBL is correct. Its you who is creating the diversion here. The questions you asked here are irrelevant and not concerned with the issue at all.I am not surprised because after debating you i have realized that you are a power house of fallacies.

Do I really need to know the answers to above questions when I know the following:

1)Cutting hands of thieves
2)Cutting 1 hand and 1 foot of those who wage war against the messenger
3)flogging the adulterers
4)forced conversion
5)Paedophilia
6)Hatred of disbelievers and inciting believers to kill non believers

Knowing this is sufficient to discard and reject islam. We dont even need to know answers to your questions at all.

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:25 am
by crazymonkie_
yeezevee wrote:What The Cat is saying is, It doesn't matter whether Quran is Allah/god word or man's word, It has been assumed and that book is model to 1.5 billion Muslims WHO WILL NEVER QUESTION IT and many seem to have NO IDEA of what is there in Quran, so he and other Quran only Muslims arguing with Muslims., 'USE ONLY QURAN" not the stuff that is written by some guy after 300 years from the death of Mr. Muhammad.

Mmmm.

So what's the Quran's legitimacy, then? If it's just a set of laws, why hasn't it disappeared into the mists of history like other law codes?

It is, in fact, the claims of god-based origins that is the whole reason why the system has continued. Take that away, and it becomes a thin and incomplete set of law codes that is far less efficacious nowadays than secular codes.

And Muslims must have that right to do it. Why not dear crazymonkie?

That's quite not the issue here. The issue is that The Cat is trying to make the Quran into a set of secular law codes, then telling us to ignore the other parts of the book. It's a very dangerous thing to do.

How you can get rid of one of the key tenets of a faith and then ask outsiders to act like that disregarding is working "internally" to a certain belief system, I have no idea, but The Cat is trying valiantly.
well that is NOT your problem., it is Cat's problem and other Quran only Muslim problem. What all they are asking from you is [u][b]"PLEASE SUPPORT US IN OUR ENDEAVOR" making all Muslims to follow Quran only and no more hadith. Would you mind giving support to them??

No, I won't, because it actually makes Islam worse. You might get rid of the stoning punishments, maybe some others like that, but taking away the further potential context of the ayahs would mean that the "sword verse" and so on can easily be interpreted as literal- and why not? It's the clearer and simpler interpretation, and the Quran says that it is simple, easy to understand, and for all time?

See, the ahadith may be embarrassing for some Muslims, but they at least give some leeway with regard to understanding some ayahs as only applicable to certain historical circumstances. Take those away, and ALL ayahs could be seen as literally true or required for all time.

I understand and Quran only Muslims understand why the schools of sharia came about., In fact the reason ( I guess one of the reasons) they are fighting and trying to get rid of Hadith is to get rid of these schools of sharia from all Islam.

If they do, their religion will degenerate into incoherence. There is at least an inner logic to Islamic jurisprudence- as insane and revolting as a great deal of it may be. As I've said: There is no way of explaining the people or events alluded to in the Quran without recourse to outside sources. Islamic jurisprudence is but one of those.

I don't get that., why worry about Islam stands or falls on the Quran?

It matters VERY much. The Quran is the foundational text; without any "contextual" interpretation, it's a very bloody-minded book. Thus why Islam itself is very bloody-minded.

It doesn't matter whether it falls or stands.,The Goal of The Cat and Quran only Muslim is to make all 1.5 billion Muslims follow only Quran and Quran only ..Nothing else.,

Yes, and like I said: Given that it says that it's a book of guidance for all time, and given that parsimony is implied in the idea of a straightforward, for all time book, and seeing that there are many violent and cruel aspects in the Quran, that would be a disaster.

I understand that there are many stories of OT and NT in Quran that needs help to explain to the children., Well Quran only Muslims have the right to take those stories from OT & NT because Quran says OT & NT also are the books from Allah/god..

But it also says that the books are corrupted, while not specifying which parts or how. They could be using corrupted stories without knowing it, there's no way to tell. And so no, they don't get to use the Torah and the NT as if they are authoritative and unproblematic sources.

so what is wrong with that dear crazymonkie??

Lots. See above.

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:20 am
by yeezevee
The Cat wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
The Cat wrote:1) What is the Koranic DEEN, usually (but quite imperfectly) translated 'religion'?

2) What is the Koranic 'Islam'? What does it mean within the Koranic context? Is it written that often?

3) Who are the Koranic 'Muslims'? Are they called to follow hadiths or the previous scriptures?

4) What is the Koranic 'Shariah'? For it is mentioned 4 times, I'm sure you knew that.

Come on, after all you've got to know what you're opposed to?


Whether we truly understand the Quran or not does not solve the problem of the errors. What solves that problem is a proper answer to them, which you can never seem to offer. So I believe your attempt at evasion or diversion should be recognized and properly rejected.

In other words, you're totally clueless about what you're attacking !
Noted. :roflmao:
What is happening dear The Cat? There is no winner and no looser in this Quran exam., I am not even sure why you are posing such questions to Non-Muslims, who were Never followed Islam and they are Anti-Islamic folks FOR RIGHT REASONS. Again Why such Questions?

You being an expert of "Quran Only Muslim/Islam" supposed to answer their questions, instead you are indulging in questioning them and their depth in Quran, I ask you why? Such Questions should be posed to Muslims in Islamic forums who use Islam/Quran/Hadith to propagate their religion by hook or crook or in the past Violence.

What is the point of using the words like " Koranic DEEN," when people reading/arguing with you are anti Islamic folks and don't know what deen means and where it is used in Quran., ...what is the point dear The Cat?? You seem not to understand that the people on FFI are opposing Islam not because of Quran or Muhammad or hadith (or silly stuff in it) but because of its BRUTAL HISTORY/subjugation of folks and erasing their backgrounds and cultures to make monolithic Bedouin warmongering mind set of a group of Muhammad following Muslims bums that are still making War cries even today.

You know well the history of Islam don't you, don't you??
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... 165#261165

So that is where the problem is ..Not in Quran Not in Muhammad. Instead asking them the question, you should answer posts like this one /viewtopic.php?p=130677#p130677

Any way those of you who are interested in Deen and its meaning go here http://islam1.org/khutub/Defn__of_Deen_&_Islam.htm

with best
yeezevee

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:33 am
by Ghalibkhastahaal
Brendalee wrote:Hello Cat!

The Muslims started killing folks immediately upon Mohammad's Medina revelations. Long before the ahadith we find the Muslim armies spreading out looting, killing, destroying, raping, and enslaving their non-Muslim neighbours.

You obviously have a different approach from many others at FFI. Fine, this is your right.

Why do you think it is alright for you to insist that anyone who does not think like you is a "hater". Why do you so insist that you can have your own opinion, but no one else may have theirs but have some weird obligation to simply agree with what you say and not think for themselves? Isn't this imposition of ideas which are to be accepted whether one believes them or not enshrined in the Quran as a part of Islam? Even if the Quran did not specify to kill Apostates, it paints them as enemies of this particularly twisted "god" author.

I never would have pegged you as someone opposed to free thought and free speech.

You claim that Islam can only be effectively fought from the "inside" - so why do you spend your time here instead of devoting it to Muslim sites? Do not forget that FFI is also targeted on NON Muslims - people who do not recognise Islam as a threat.

True enough, the ahadith de-humanises Islam even more; but there is plenty of inspiration for hatred and killing in just the Quran.

Wala wa bara.

And incidentally, the ahadith are not OUR problem. You need to convince about a billion Muslims or so; so why do you waste time trying vainly to convince the unconvinced here?


In other words, you are telling The Cat to shut up. Is that what you want? If The Cat had not brought up the subject, there would have been no lively debate. Let him speak his mind out. If others have failed to register his points, let them think hard. Why kill the topic?

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:34 am
by yeezevee
AhmedBahgat wrote:

What sort of reply was that?

Don’t you know that you are dealing with the dumbest kafir on FFI? Yep the dumbest, his name is Ugly Bin Lyin, look at him, he does not only look like a dumb and filthy child molester, he is indeed a filthy child molester (according to his own admission on FFI) and the dumbest. Look how dumb he is in presenting his faggy argument, haha
You are fool not to realize that you are dealing with pretty smart crowd that is opposing Muhammad and his Islam for right reasons dear AhmedBahgat.

Ugly Bin Lyin brought to you a sentence from the whole Quran. Not even the whole verse, the ugly molester. How deceitful, yet that does not qualify him to be a conman, I reckon he might qualify to be a conwoman who will eventually turn to prostitution because she was too dumb to con anyone.

Let me show how to slam dunk that filthy illogical cheating and deluded freak of a child molester:

You write Foolish and you write Junk.....
I searched the Quran and found that the sentence presented by the conwoman Ugly: Fight the unbelievers until all religion is for Allah. to appear in two verses: 2:193 & 8:39

We should see clearly and irrefutably that in both locations the command to fight the unbelievers was fighting the aggressors, not initiating the fight, and in both locations the fight was all about enforcing Allah possession of His house in Mecca. Let’s get the slam dunk going:
Let me answer you and your silly translation with history of Islam on that verse Muhammad bin Lyin highlighted in the next post..

Re: Allah as Law: The Law!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:42 am
by yeezevee
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:

In other words, you are telling The Cat to shut up. Is that what you want? If The Cat had not brought up the subject, there would have been no lively debate.
No one is telling The Cat to Shut up Mr. Ghalibkhastahaal. People here are asking The Cat to educate 100s of millions of Muslims bums who don't understand Quran/Islam and Muhammad in Islamic forums..

Let him speak his mind out. If others have failed to register his points, let them think hard. Why kill the topic?
he still has freedom to speak out his mind "YOU NEED TO READ HIS POSTS"..

Here is the link of what he wrote ., here read all 4000 posts are so
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/searc ... or=The+Cat

So don't complain the folks "that they are telling The Cat to Shut Up.". This is NOT an Islamic forum..

with best
yeezevee