Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
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MesMorial
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by MesMorial »

I am sorry Yeezevee I did know about the hadith which is why I was asking skynightblaze (by his logic) that if circumcision is mandatory in Islam then why is it not practiced universally especially since it is apparently more widespread for males...

http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/violence&h ... t/fgm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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yeezevee
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by yeezevee »

MesMorial wrote:Yeezevee thinks that extra-Qur'anic sources are relevant to the point that was irrelevant to the first point he responded to.
Sure sure you don't care about Islamic criminal activities of Muhammad and his followers that are NOT present in Quran., I am glad your type of Muslims are smarter than others dear MesMorial.

But let use read that Ayah and see the ground realities
6.001: "why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you"..
Yes.. Why.. Go my man go.. there is a good looking woman .. "IT IS LAWFUL FOR YOU"..Allah says so..

But..I don't think so. ..

So " IT IS LAWFUL FOR YOU" Prophet Muhammad?? What is Lawful?? Hadith Scholars of Islam come with List Lawful of THINGS(Mothers of believers...good looking women of Prophet ... with the exception of Khadija(RA) whom prophet Married before he started HIS ISLAMIC ONSLAUGHT on Arabian pagans.. Here is the list starting with No.2 lawful thing., well I could say Sawda bint Zama is not a big deal.. SO start with No3 lawful thing that 6-9-18 whatever year old Aisha...
2. Sauda/Sawda bint Zama: 'Sawda bint Zama ibn Qayyis ibn Abd Shams' (Arabic: 'سودة بنت زمعة') was 2nd wife of Mr.Muhammad, and therefore a ''Mother of the Believers'' and one of the early converts to Islam. She was of the Quraish tribe on her father's side. According to hadith, she migrated to Abyssinia with her first husband, al-Sakran Amr Abd Shams became a Christian in Abyssinia and died there. Apparently Aisha used to call her "a fat lady"

3. 'Aisha 8 to 9 yrs old???, 2nd wife
4. Umm Salama
5. Hafsah
6. Zainab of Jahsh
7. Jowayriya bint Harith
8. Umm Habiba
9. Safiyya bint Huyai/Huyayy bint Akhtab
10. Maimuna of Hareth
11. Fatimah (briefly)
12. Hind (widow)
13. Sana bint Asma
14. Zaynab of Khozayma
15. Habla?
16. Divorced Asma of Noman
17. Mary the Copt
18. Rayhana/Raihana/Rayhanah bint Zayd/Zaid
¾uncertain relationship -
19. Divorced Omm Sharik
20. Maymuna/Maimuna
21. Zainab the third?
22. Khawla
23. Divorced Mulaykah bint Dawud
24. Divorced al-Shanba bint Amr
25. Divorced al-Aliyyah
26. Divorced Amrah bint Yazid
27. Divorced an Unnamed Woman
28. Qutaylah bint Qays (died right away)
29. Sana bint Sufyan
30. Sharaf bint Khalifah
And you have Women, ,Mohammad's Right Hand and Mohammad Turned Some Women Down and Some Women Turned Mohammad Down..

SO MANY MOTHERS TO BELIEVERS..No one knows what is truth and what is not truth with reference to the above list. But it is clear that his 11 wives after the death of Khadija are well known. Damn that guy was nothing but a SEX OBSESSED DIRTY OLD MAN (SODOM) ..gets Ayahs from Allah to satisfy his sexual needs?? . Indeed he was the man.. THE BULL MAN with 100 horse power. We do have Ayahs in Q'uran about this STUPIDITY OF Muhammad dear MesMorial..

At least in this case, I am not very certain that Allah/God spoke to Muhammad regarding his marriages and wives and what not. Any ways that is what "WAS ALL LAWFUL FOR" Prophet Muhammad dear MesMorial., Allah says that in book., But I don't think so..

with best wishes
yeezevee

yeezevee
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by yeezevee »

MesMorial wrote:I am sorry Yeezevee I did know about the hadith ....
http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/violence&h ... t/fgm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
See that you did know Muhammad(PBUH) said that.."That cutting little" but you might have not seen it , watch it dear MesMorial









I am glad you know lots of things in Islam dear MesMorial

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by MesMorial »

Read the Qur'an to find out what was made lawful for Muhammad (SAW). Then read the context of 66:1-5.

I am glad that you appreciate the difference between Qur'an-alone Islam and Sunni Islam (I assumed you knew!) The basic premise is that hadiths contradict the Qur'an.

Peace to you.
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yeezevee
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by yeezevee »

MesMorial wrote:Read the Qur'an ..

Peace to you.
Peace to you too., I am reading Quran for a long time., as a kid., as a guy and as a man.. dear MesMorial., let us read together all 114 chapters..

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But here let us read these from that chapter 66 At-Tahrim 12
066.002: Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise.
Off course Allah is Protector.. BUT What did Allah Sanction?.. sanctioned for you what?? What Oaths are we talking about?? that is silly., Prophet Muhammad appears to be angry at something. Having 11 wives?? dealing with their problems becomes exponential.. So Call Allah for help??.. lol.. what a Man... But we have billions followers..
066.003: And when the prophet secretly communicated a piece of information to one of his wives-- but when she informed (others) of it, and Allah made him to know it, he made known part of it and avoided part; so when he informed her of it, she said: Who informed you of this? He said: The Knowing, the one Aware, informed me.
There you go.. What information was that? How to sleep with a slave of a wife??.. Ha!.. Allah knows the best..

What a rubbish.. Zee. at least IF THIS STUPID THING WAS IN Hadith., I would have out rightly rejected the DAMN THING but IDIOTS put it in Q'uran.. Hey Allah.. help me out..
066.004: If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.
WHO BOTH?. two wives bitching at each other?? It happens man.. take it easy.. don't go to Allah.. Even Allah would have been in trouble with so many wives.. lol..
066.005: Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.
There you go what a RASCAL., if you don't listen to me ALLAH SAYS' HE GETS ME BETTER WIVES" A SUBMISSIVE obedient adoring wife..

YOU WOMEN SHUT UP..other wise I will not sleep with you.. Allah said that to me..

WHAT A CROAK.. what a revelations .. Help me Allah.. help me.. MOVE THIS RUBBISH IN TO HADITH ...please...
MesMorial wrote:I am sorry Yeezevee ....
Here I have to repeat your words and I am sorry too dear MesMorial., but please realize "WHAT I WRITE FROM QUARN or Islamic history is NOT an attack on you"

with best regards
yeezevee

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MesMorial
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by MesMorial »

Dear Yeezevee, regarding your last post:

Let us examine the facts within the case (66:1-5)

Now according to 66:1 it is something to do with pleasing Muhammad’s (SAW) wives. Apparently he was unable to be equitable with them according to an oath which Allah (SWT) then freed him from (or was it the sharing of the secret which was itself unequitable). It is not explicit but we know that he prohibited himself from something in attempting to please his wives. He had promised his wife something which ran counter to God’s will, and hence they were admonished. But overall the problem was first with Muhammad (SAW) confiding a secret (clearly the oath) to one of his wives which ran counter to the right Way. Now his wife held him to this or at least made it known (to another wife), and this combination of secrecy and disobedience led to an important point about family life (the ayah following).

I believe this answers another question of skynightblaze.

Peace.
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by MesMorial »

Brendalee wrote:
MesMorial wrote:I think Brendalee was talking about Allah (SWT) having human-like emotions. That is a stretch because just like the descriptions of Hell are allegorical in the sense that we could never comprehend, neither can we comprehend the nature of the Divine and hence the "emotions" expressed merely indicate a direction closer to Allah's (SWT) favour or further from. This is for our benefit. E.g. when the Qur'an states that the Christians are perverse for worshipping Jesus, it merely means this is certainly not the way to go.

Thankyou for the questions and apologies if I was thinking ahead. Now you can read my post once more and enjoy it.
ALLEGORICAL? Seriously? Is that the best you can do? Yeah, its allegorical "in the sense" that it is INCOMPREHENSIBLE????? WOW! Kinda makes you wonder why he bothered with the Quran at all.

But, you tell me, he does it "for our benefit". WHY? Is it because he says he is CARING (human) and COMPASSIONATE (human)? Nope, cannot be, according to you.

Well this makes the entire doctrine of al-wala wal bara into rubbish and nonsense. Every time the Quran says to enjoin what Allah calls "good" and forbid what Allah calls "bad" it is a nonsense. If Allah cannot LIKE or DISLIKE things, then he HAS no favour or disfavour for anyone to move closer to, either. If is allegorical for him to tell Muslims to do one thing or another when HE cannot be pleased or displeased (more human emotions), then it doesn't matter at all what they do or do not do because Allah neither likes it or dislikes it. If it is allegorical, then Allah cannot PREFER one thing over another. Tell me, why does he pretend he does? (Ah, but THAT is human also!)

How can a Muslim like what Allah likes and hate what Allah hates if Allah does NEITHER? Huh? HOW?

This makes the entirety of the Quran even worse than meaningless. It makes Allah utterly and irretrievably random; an insensible Zombie-like Arbitrariness which could not possibly be in any way connected to the author of the Quran, because you have just contradicted the entire contents of the Quran. Throughout the Quran Allah continually describes himself in ways that you now say are NOT TRUE. He cannot be "merciful", he cannot be "benevolent", blah, blah. Its ALL allegorical incomprehensibility.

Allah is SO human-like that he even involves himself in Mohammad's sex-life and marital affairs! Kindly explain. Tell me what is so divine and not at all human in Allah meddling with somebody's sex life and marital affairs. I thought humans did that quite a lot; even too often.

And please deal with 8.43 and explain why Allah LIED to his own prophet. You just can't get more human than LYING.

Allah, who claims he cannot be compared to anything at all, is utterly HUMAN-like according to his own description of HIMSELF in the Quran. Totally human. Everything, throughout the Quran. I wonder if he mentions ANY trait that is NOT human.

You managed to rubbish the Quran far better than I ever have. And in far fewer words. WELL DONE!

Of course, I'd still like to hear your excuse for Allah's interest in Mohammad's sex life. And I patiently await the end of your evasion over Allah lying in 8.43.

(Edit) P.S. Oh, incidentally, regards your little probe...you know, your sly little dig at Christianity...sorry, your arrow was utterly wasted. Wrong target, but nice try.
Well I can't think of a better word than "lol".

He bothered with the Qur’an since it is a guide. Yes. He is caring and compassionate to those who want to find it in themselves to do good works and to nurture what is in their hearts but which they cannot define (the desire for protection and Allah (SWT) (Divinity)). Hence when it says that Allah (SWT) guides whom He will there must also be the desire in the heart of the person. They must not hide it within their hearts but once they find this desire in their hearts then Allah (SWT) is guiding them and urging them to let it out (opening their hearts). When you realise what righteousness is and accept you are helpless and slave to circumstance, then there is only way one and that is the path of non-ego (striving to be close to God).

Your rant about Allah (SWT) not liking or disliking anything is confirmed:


“Say: Believe in it or believe not; surely those who are given the knowledge before it fall down on their faces, making obeisance when it is recited to them.”

Qur’an 17:106


“And they fall down on their faces weeping, and it adds to their humility.”

Qur’an 17:109


“Say: My Lord would not care for you were it not for your prayer; but you have indeed rejected (the truth), so that which shall cleave shall come.”

Qur’an 25:77


The prayer is a spiritual practice and to make it easy (so that we don’t forget and we do it together) they are defined at different times. Since it is spiritual Allah (SWT) only asks us to praise Him and so express that which is in our hearts (and yet cannot define because no-one can define God) which is the desire to be happy and safe and with our loved ones in Paradise. Can you think of something better? That is the ideal.

Some things will bring you closer to this state, whilst others will distance you. It depends upon you.

Bring the example from the Qur’an about Muhammad’s (SAW) sex life?

You mention 8:43

“When Allah showed them to you in your dream as few; and if He had shown them to you as many you would certainly have become weak-hearted and you would have disputed about the matter, but Allah saved (you); surely He is the Knower of what is in the breasts.”

Tell me that this is a lie and not inspiration? Do you blame Allah (SWT) each time you have a nice dream and it does not come to pass? Do you thank Him when you have a bad dream and it does not come to pass?

Explain your point here.

You concluded with:

“(Edit) P.S. Oh, incidentally, regards your little probe...you know, your sly little dig at Christianity...sorry, your arrow was utterly wasted. Wrong target, but nice try.”


Haha well since if it offends you to hear it here then it must infuriate you when you read the Qur’an. My purpose was to mention (in a different light) something which might be offensive to some readers of the Qur’an. I was using Pickthall’s translation but the corpus suggests “deluded”.

My apologies and peace to you.
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Brendalee »

MesMorial:
I think Brendalee was talking about Allah (SWT) having human-like emotions. That is a stretch because just like the descriptions of Hell are allegorical in the sense that we could never comprehend, neither can we comprehend the nature of the Divine and hence the "emotions" expressed merely indicate a direction closer to Allah's (SWT) favour or further from. This is for our benefit. E.g. when the Qur'an states that the Christians are perverse for worshipping Jesus, it merely means this is certainly not the way to go.

Thankyou for the questions and apologies if I was thinking ahead. Now you can read my post once more and enjoy it.
My response:
ALLEGORICAL? Seriously? Is that the best you can do? Yeah, its allegorical "in the sense" that it is INCOMPREHENSIBLE????? WOW! Kinda makes you wonder why he bothered with the Quran at all.

But, you tell me, he does it "for our benefit". WHY? Is it because he says he is CARING (human) and COMPASSIONATE (human)? Nope, cannot be, according to you.

Well this makes the entire doctrine of al-wala wal bara into rubbish and nonsense. Every time the Quran says to enjoin what Allah calls "good" and forbid what Allah calls "bad" it is a nonsense. If Allah cannot LIKE or DISLIKE things, then he HAS no favour or disfavour for anyone to move closer to, either. If is allegorical for him to tell Muslims to do one thing or another when HE cannot be pleased or displeased (more human emotions), then it doesn't matter at all what they do or do not do because Allah neither likes it or dislikes it. If it is allegorical, then Allah cannot PREFER one thing over another. Tell me, why does he pretend he does? (Ah, but THAT is human also!)

How can a Muslim like what Allah likes and hate what Allah hates if Allah does NEITHER? Huh? HOW?

This makes the entirety of the Quran even worse than meaningless. It makes Allah utterly and irretrievably random; an insensible Zombie-like Arbitrariness which could not possibly be in any way connected to the author of the Quran, because you have just contradicted the entire contents of the Quran. Throughout the Quran Allah continually describes himself in ways that you now say are NOT TRUE. He cannot be "merciful", he cannot be "benevolent", blah, blah. Its ALL allegorical incomprehensibility.

Allah is SO human-like that he even involves himself in Mohammad's sex-life and marital affairs! Kindly explain. Tell me what is so divine and not at all human in Allah meddling with somebody's sex life and marital affairs. I thought humans did that quite a lot; even too often.

And please deal with 8.43 and explain why Allah LIED to his own prophet. You just can't get more human than LYING.

Allah, who claims he cannot be compared to anything at all, is utterly HUMAN-like according to his own description of HIMSELF in the Quran. Totally human. Everything, throughout the Quran. I wonder if he mentions ANY trait that is NOT human.

You managed to rubbish the Quran far better than I ever have. And in far fewer words. WELL DONE!

Of course, I'd still like to hear your excuse for Allah's interest in Mohammad's sex life. And I patiently await the end of your evasion over Allah lying in 8.43.

(Edit) P.S. Oh, incidentally, regards your little probe...you know, your sly little dig at Christianity...sorry, your arrow was utterly wasted. Wrong target, but nice try.
And here the latest exchange:
Well I can't think of a better word than "lol".
Good. Then we are both having a great chuckle.
He bothered with the Qur’an since it is a guide. Yes. He is caring and compassionate to those who want to find it in themselves to do good works and to nurture what is in their hearts but which they cannot define (the desire for protection and Allah (SWT) (Divinity)). Hence when it says that Allah (SWT) guides whom He will there must also be the desire in the heart of the person. They must not hide it within their hearts but once they find this desire in their hearts then Allah (SWT) is guiding them and urging them to let it out (opening their hearts). When you realise what righteousness is and accept you are helpless and slave to circumstance, then there is only way one and that is the path of non-ego (striving to be close to God).
Ah, care and compassion are not HUMAN traits? You told me Allah does not have human "emotions" because he is just too incomprehensible to have them. Let's make the COMPARISON of human to Allah, your self-proclaimed god who says he cannot be compared to anything. I will set aside the preaching aspect of your post as the drivel that it is.

You tell me Allah does not have human "emotions" but then you credit him immediately with TWO: care and compassion. Wait, you said he did not have them. Wait, you say he does have them. LOL! Sorry either he DOES or he DOES NOT. Which is it?

If he has human traits, we can compare him to a human. And this makes it false for Allah to claim that he cannot be compared to anything. If he does NOT have human traits, then we cannot compare him to a human. But HE makes claims of human traits throughout the entire Quran.
Your rant about Allah (SWT) not liking or disliking anything is confirmed:
Then you contradict yourself. I specifically asked you how it is possible for any Muslim to like WHAT ALLAH LIKES, and dislike WHAT ALLAH DOES NOT LIKE as the Quran tells him to do if Allah does NEITHER. You did not answer. But lets look at your examples:

“Say: Believe in it or believe not; surely those who are given the knowledge before it fall down on their faces, making obeisance when it is recited to them.”

Qur’an 17:106
Indifference is a HUMAN trait.

“And they fall down on their faces weeping, and it adds to their humility.”



Qur’an 17:109


Nothing to do with Allah's human traits or the topic.



“Say: My Lord would not care for you were it not for your prayer; but you have indeed rejected (the truth), so that which shall cleave shall come.”

Qur’an 25:77
More contradiction. Caring/not caring is a HUMAN trait.

The prayer is a spiritual practice and to make it easy (so that we don’t forget and we do it together) they are defined at different times. Since it is spiritual Allah (SWT) only asks us to praise Him and so express that which is in our hearts (and yet cannot define because no-one can define God) which is the desire to be happy and safe and with our loved ones in Paradise. Can you think of something better? That is the ideal.

Some things will bring you closer to this state, whilst others will distance you. It depends upon you.
Please preserve your preaching skills for the intellectually challenged. You mention only ONE thing relevant to the subject. You say no one can define God. In the case of Allah, there is no need. He defines HIMSELF with human traits throughout the Quran and also contradicts his own definition by also claiming that he cannot be compared to anything. A none too bright "deity"...
Bring the example from the Qur’an about Muhammad’s (SAW) sex life?
Are you truly so oblivious? You have been discussing these verses with Yeezevee. Tell me why Allah must HUMANLY meddle in Mohammad's sex life and marital affairs?
You mention 8:43

“When Allah showed them to you in your dream as few; and if He had shown them to you as many you would certainly have become weak-hearted and you would have disputed about the matter, but Allah saved (you); surely He is the Knower of what is in the breasts.”

Tell me that this is a lie and not inspiration? Do you blame Allah (SWT) each time you have a nice dream and it does not come to pass? Do you thank Him when you have a bad dream and it does not come to pass?

Explain your point here.
I thought I had. It's pretty obvious. This is ALLAH speaking...or do you claim it is NOT? This is not Mohammad having some dream on his own. Allah ADMITS to lying to Mohammad by what ALLAH showed him in his dream. ALLAH even provides an EXCUSE for his lie to Mohammad. Allah takes full credit and responsibilty here. You cannot pretend otherwise.This is not me having my own dream. Nor do I claim to be some prophet. So stop your silly and transparent evasion.

ALLAH, for the sake of ensuring that two groups of humans slaughter each other (bloodthirst- a HUMAN trait) LIES (human) to his own prophet.
You concluded with:

“(Edit) P.S. Oh, incidentally, regards your little probe...you know, your sly little dig at Christianity...sorry, your arrow was utterly wasted. Wrong target, but nice try.”


Haha well since if it offends you to hear it here then it must infuriate you when you read the Qur’an. My purpose was to mention (in a different light) something which might be offensive to some readers of the Qur’an. I was using Pickthall’s translation but the corpus suggests “deluded”.

My apologies and peace to you.
Well, it sure looked like a misfired barb to me. I did not, however, take it personal. I do not hold to religious dogmas of any flavour.

This is an internet debate and so your apology is not owed or expected. The exchanges here are rough but not personal. Ideally posters are supposed to attack the post and not the poster. A bit of repartee, even a bit cutting repartee is acceptable; But when things get too personal, and posters are attacked instead of what they have written, then apologies are appropriate. But you have done nothing to apologise for.

If it is your custom to wish peace to me, then I accept and thank you. But again, it is not necessary.

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Ghalibkhastahaal »

skynightblaze wrote:
Female circumcision is also mentioned in the sunna. I placed a link to answering islam;s article. You can view that article.It has the hadiths.
Where is female circumcision mentioned in the Sunnah?

You made me spray my coffee all over the monitor and the keyboard.

You are wrong. Female circumcision is not mentioned in the Sunnah. Prove it.

Circumcision is only applicable to men. Women do not have dicks, with a foreskin hanging out.

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by skynightblaze »

Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:
Female circumcision is also mentioned in the sunna. I placed a link to answering islam;s article. You can view that article.It has the hadiths.
Where is female circumcision mentioned in the Sunnah?

You made me spray my coffee all over the monitor and the keyboard.

You are wrong. Female circumcision is not mentioned in the Sunnah. Prove it.

Circumcision is only applicable to men. Women do not have dicks, with a foreskin hanging out.

Narrated Jafar bin 'Amr bin Umaiya:
... When the army aligned for the fight, Siba' came out and said, ‘Is there any (Muslim) to accept my challenge to a duel?’ Hamza bin 'Abdul Muttalib came out and said, ‘O Siba'. O Ibn Um Anmar, the one who circumcises other ladies! Do you challenge Allah and His Apostle?’ Then Hamza attacked and killed him, ... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 399)


Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah:
A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 5251)

ENJOY! :lol: Now collect the coffee spilled and drink it again!
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Ghalibkhastahaal »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
But Bukhari did not tell us how to pray, would you be able to show it to us, clear instruction from Bukhari ma made rubbish book on how we pray? No spinning, just clear instruction for average humans

Cheers
How to pray, came from the Sunnah. People followed the prophet and the next generations followed them.

Hadith does not explain how to pray.

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by MesMorial »

@ Muhammad bin Lyin
He's properly identifying that you are merely rewriting your religion to suit your sensibilities by getting rid of the clearly embarrassing parts so that you can still hang on to Islam, in the face of all of it's known absurdities. It doesn't need the hadiths to embarrass itself and rarely do I even bother with them. The Quran is more than enough embarrassment if one can even be the slightest bit objective when reading it. But we all know the objectivity is simply impossible for Muslims. That much I've learned
I am following the Qur’an. Are you saying that the ahadith do not rewrite the Qur’an?
Oh come off of it, will you please?? What is the big deal? If you were offended by the picture, just ignore it. It seemed to me that he was joking more than anything, but when one is ultra uptight, then everything becomes a major offense. Draw Muhammad and you'd think they'd like to light the globe on fire. Seems like everything offends Muslims except the death of kafirs, based on what is loudly protested and what is not.
I was offended briefly since I felt like I would waste my time here. He was riding high on ego at that time and perhaps he was joking for which I forgive. But that is beside the point. No-one has denied what I said.
Actually, it seems like it's you who's "feathers are getting ruffled" very easily. So who's insecure?? If you were secure, you wouldn't bother complaining about the personal aspects of this discussion
I only just joined. If I were insecure I probably would not join a forum in which I am outnumbered. However I will get annoyed if people are nonsensical and derisive. Speaking of feathers it is ok to joke but when it is too easy to read the person behind the words it is like a lion trying to ignore the smell of a chicken that keeps him awake at night. My apologies, again.
Somebody is allowed to ask a question however they want. Why shouldn't they be?? Now, you demand to control what questions are asked or how they are asked?? And you said "preconceived". How can any good question NOT be preconceived?? Of course it's preconceived and that's good because the better thought out the question is, the less time it wastes. I really cannot understand your reasoning in general. You are on a discussion forum, and the general purpose of this forum is to rightly expose all of the flaws in Islam, from it's scientific inaccurracies, it's contradictions, it's violence etc.....so that Muslims can see the light of day and realize that there is life after Islam (if your fellow Muslims don't kill you and then blame it on non Muslims)
The complete context of everything you are responding to was a message to Brendalee. I was pointing some things out to him and certainly it is just fun for some. Yeezevee was expounding on things I had not said. I came here to answer 10 unanswerable questions but the reply in logic was minimal. Rather than attempting to eliminate ahadith, the opponents of Islam were attempting to justify them. There is no hadith detailing fully the prayer of today and hence they are irrelevant to any logic in the uniformity of prayer.
The way I see it, that's a ditto. What do they call that in psychology?? Oh yeah, "projection".
I came here to answer 10 unanswerable questions.
Well then for that matter, who is anybody to say that one human being is worse than another, right??
Precisely my point! So why the need for ahadith despite their being no ahadith in the Qur’an? Why do you not want Muslims to be better?
The belief.
What if you do not know the reason for belief? It could be very deep, and so you must have researched the belief very deeply before arriving at its legitimacy (or lack thereof).
Muslims aren't bad, their ideology is bad and their prophet was bad. As I always say when I see a problem or absurdity, it can't be a genetic thing, so it must be an Islamic thing.
Why do you repel Qur’an-alone then? The principle is the same. Is Islam bad because it can be interpreted as bad? Is that not the people’s choice? Different beliefs will be practiced differently according to the reason for belief. If Muslims are not bad, why do you insult them with your quote? Why not insult Islam instead?
That's what you think, but the truth of the matter is that they laugh at you as believing in fairy tales and having no better reasoning skills than a child who still believes in fairy tales because he needs to. The child that still carries around his "binkee" (security blanket)
So you are judging the person and not the belief?
All you are doing is acting in what you believe to be your own self interest. All you are doing is merely reaching for your big reward. What's so sacrificing or special about that?? If you ever did any deep, introspective thinking, you would see that the only difference between you and an agnostic and an atheist, is that you disagree on which way is the best way to ultimately serve yourself. The atheist does other actions rather than serve God because he doesn't think that will produce any reward for him. You think it WILL produce a great reward. But in both cases, you're both the same. You're both merely acting in what you believe to ultimately be your best interests. You may be shocked to find out that this whole time, you were not serving God, you were serving yourself and you merely believe that the best way to serve yourself is to serve Allah. But the human mind hides that part of the equation from itself so that it can get a really good feeling that they are a really good, selfless person deserving of all sorts of rewards. Most people will go the their grave without ever realizing this illusion.
Everyone believes what is most convenient. What is most convenient is what is most suited for the mindset of that person. Did I not say that if Islam were disproved I would lose nothing? Now how do you explain that? It is not self-interest but merely accepting a path. Everything we do is self-serving, so according to you the “bad” person and the “good” person are no different. We can only judge by the outcome, but you must assume that each person who is Muslim will lead to a bad outcome. That is the state of your view. The difference between the atheist and the believer is that the believer will have an incentive to forego the selfish temptations of THIS world. Since we have established that all things are in a way selfish, your only compass to steer by (and maintain your course i.e. your contra-philosophy) is the “bad” in Islam. So you will look for that regardless. You should look for the good because your own quote betrays you when you say that you judge the belief. When I say they will understand humanity better, I hence mean that they will see the good and thus understand why they choose this path (calling it right). Whereas you may only see why people are NOT Muslim, a Muslim will not only see why you are not one but also why he/she is.
Perhaps somewhat true in some cases, but there's more than that going on. Islam is an aggressive religion, and people are tired of having to listen to it's nonsense, it's protests, it's violence, it's special demands, and it's aggressive, hard coded desire to be the dominant religion, and even attain political rule as well. This isn't Muslims doing this, this is their Quran telling them to do this. So the best way to shut that up is to show them the clear errors in their book and prove it to be a lie. Forget about fighting. It's like the creator of this site Ali Sina said, you don't fight Islam with war, that's ingrained into Islam, they love that. A Muslim never feels so much in glory as when they are fighting the kafir in the way of Allah. It finally gives them a purpose. You fight it with words and clear proofs. All one has to do about Islam is to tell the truth. Use the Quran itself, quote accurately from it and it will expose itself.
Unless we follow the Qur’an properly and look at its overall purpose. Consider if everyone were a Muslim and a particular type (such that differences were minor etc. e.g. people prayed according to Qur’an and did not get upset if others did not copy them since they are not insecure etc.) would it be a bad thing? Now this is people’s warped interpretations of the Qur’an talking and not the Qur’an. People will bring to the religion what they bear with them, and it comes down to the reason for belief. If you are a Muslim then you follow the Qur’an . You do not follow scholars’ interpretations etc. It was made plain to those who understand the purpose of the message (individual salvation by practicing the pillars and doing good – notice that the Qur’an assumes we know what “good” is and hence it is no loss to the person we are if we “convert” – rather accept). Now the purpose of the message is certainly different from the purpose of the belief. The belief is the path and faith is the will to take it. It is not about Heaven and Hell. If you love God then you will love Him for His sake since He created you. Like a person whom you love you will always be afraid of His displeasure but that is inevitable and natural. It is just a fact in my belief that you either grow closer to Him or further from Him. Hell exists without saying. There is only Allah (SWT) and you. How you interact with your surroundings will define you. We are all slave to uncertainty and there is only One who knows. It is up to you if you accept or reject, but politically and socially it is always up to the majority (I have my belief, and others have their’s). Now if sites like Faithfreedom.org can demonstrate that they understand Muslims, Muslims will listen. So if what you want is peace, everyone must accept everyone else and allow them to believe as they wish. This goes for Muslims too. A community of Muslims should exist with their laws/values and if not attacked or provoked will be at peace with the world. That is all, and no matter how the world changes we cannot change the human mind nor our condition.
You are acting just like the stereotypical Muslim. Always serious, always offended, always demanding all sorts of respect for no reason. I love people that "demand" respect. That's ridiculous. Respect cannot be demanded, it can only be earned. If you say intelligent things, you will be respected.
You mean things that you agree with. You have my permission to insult me since I did not demand respect but merely pointed out some little things that have not been denied.

The same to you, and peace.
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MesMorial
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by MesMorial »

@Brendaleee

Well it is friendly but also pointless...

Good. Then we are both having a great chuckle.
Except you should not be laughing at ME.

Ah, care and compassion are not HUMAN traits? You told me Allah does not have human "emotions" because he is just too incomprehensible to have them. Let's make the COMPARISON of human to Allah, your self-proclaimed god who says he cannot be compared to anything. I will set aside the preaching aspect of your post as the drivel that it is.

You tell me Allah does not have human "emotions" but then you credit him immediately with TWO: care and compassion. Wait, you said he did not have them. Wait, you say he does have them. LOL! Sorry either he DOES or he DOES NOT. Which is it?

If he has human traits, we can compare him to a human. And this makes it false for Allah to claim that he cannot be compared to anything. If he does NOT have human traits, then we cannot compare him to a human. But HE makes claims of human traits throughout the entire Quran.
Well care and compassion are not confined to humans. Gorillas etc. care too but in different ways. Your entire post is now redundant.

I simply mean that there is no better way to express what you call the "emotions" of God than through words like "care" etc. You tried to make a point by saying that Allah (SWT) is like a human, but the evidences you use are simply the best words to express the attributes of what we cannot define. Since we cannot define Him, we only express the attributes of Allah (SWT) according to the words describing how we can best "imagine" the Divine (i.e. He is merciful to a true believer etc.) The Qur'an uses those words because if He used concepts we were unfamiliar with we could not be guided. The point here is not the process, but the outcome.

You falsely declare that Allah (SWT) lied but your point implodes. What is your point? Allah (SWT) prevented Muhammad (SAW) from being afraid. Too much hot air from you.

Peace.

P.S. I explained 66:1-5 above.
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Ghalibkhastahaal
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Ghalibkhastahaal »

skynightblaze wrote:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:
Female circumcision is also mentioned in the sunna. I placed a link to answering islam;s article. You can view that article.It has the hadiths.
Where is female circumcision mentioned in the Sunnah?

You made me spray my coffee all over the monitor and the keyboard.

You are wrong. Female circumcision is not mentioned in the Sunnah. Prove it.

Circumcision is only applicable to men. Women do not have dicks, with a foreskin hanging out.

Narrated Jafar bin 'Amr bin Umaiya:
... When the army aligned for the fight, Siba' came out and said, ‘Is there any (Muslim) to accept my challenge to a duel?’ Hamza bin 'Abdul Muttalib came out and said, ‘O Siba'. O Ibn Um Anmar, the one who circumcises other ladies! Do you challenge Allah and His Apostle?’ Then Hamza attacked and killed him, ... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 399)


Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah:
A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 5251)

ENJOY! :lol: Now collect the coffee spilled and drink it again!
Lucky, I was not having a cup of coffee again. You have quoted me two ridiculous hadith but you failed to show through Sunnah. Please read my post again.

Please take note that you had written that Female circumcision is also mentioned in the sunna.

Please let me know if you know the difference between Sunnah and Hadith? Do you also know the difference between Sunnah and Sunanan?

crazymonkie_
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by crazymonkie_ »

The idea of the Sunnah representing a reliable source of information is bunkum. The problem is simply this: How do you know that the stuff traveling around as Sunnah wasn't made up by someone who had an agenda? You don't. The precise ritual motions in salat, for example, could have been invented in the 18th century by Albanian converts and you wouldn't know. Nobody would. So how do you know? You don't. Nobody does. Sunnah debunked. Next.

crazymonkie_
Posts: 1899
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by crazymonkie_ »

The idea of the Sunnah representing a reliable source of information is bunkum. The problem is simply this: How do you know that the stuff traveling around as Sunnah wasn't made up by someone who had an agenda? You don't. The precise ritual motions in salat, for example, could have been invented in the 18th century by Albanian converts and you wouldn't know. Nobody would. So how do you know? You don't. Nobody does. Sunnah debunked. Next.

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skynightblaze
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by skynightblaze »

Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Lucky, I was not having a cup of coffee again. You have quoted me two ridiculous hadith but you failed to show through Sunnah. Please read my post again.

Please take note that you had written that Female circumcision is also mentioned in the sunna.

Please let me know if you know the difference between Sunnah and Hadith? Do you also know the difference between Sunnah and Sunanan?
I dont consider Sunna and hadith to be different. I use these words interchangeably.

I see islamic scholars mention a few differences between sunna and hadith..

1) Hadith is merely a saying by 1 or 2 people while Sunna is actually a practice
2) Sunna is definitely reliable but hadith may or may not be.

Now what can be considered as authentic is again debatable because something doesnt become false just because its narrated by 1 or 2 persons so sorry try these stupid games somewhere else . AHadith can be a sunnah as well.These minor points are hardly important as far as the discussion is concerned unless you want to diver the issue . The point is islam allows circumcision of both males and females so when I said its a sunnah I meant its a part of your religious texts.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

Ghalibkhastahaal
Posts: 554
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Ghalibkhastahaal »

skynightblaze wrote:
Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:
Lucky, I was not having a cup of coffee again. You have quoted me two ridiculous hadith but you failed to show through Sunnah. Please read my post again.

Please take note that you had written that Female circumcision is also mentioned in the sunna.

Please let me know if you know the difference between Sunnah and Hadith? Do you also know the difference between Sunnah and Sunanan?
I dont consider Sunna and hadith to be different. I use these words interchangeably.

I see islamic scholars mention a few differences between sunna and hadith..

1) Hadith is merely a saying by 1 or 2 people while Sunna is actually a practice
2) Sunna is definitely reliable but hadith may or may not be.

Now what can be considered as authentic is again debatable because something doesnt become false just because its narrated by 1 or 2 persons so sorry try these stupid games somewhere else . AHadith can be a sunnah as well.These minor points are hardly important as far as the discussion is concerned unless you want to diver the issue . The point is islam allows circumcision of both males and females so when I said its a sunnah I meant its a part of your religious texts.
You said it well in your items 1 and 2. Hadith is definitely not reliable.

You cannot consider Sunnah and Hadith to be same. There is a great difference between Sunnah and Hadith. I believe you have been misinformed. There can be a hadith on a Sunnah item but that hadith cannot be considered Sunnah.

Hadith came through stories and narrations but Sunnah was passed through generations.

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MesMorial
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by MesMorial »

Well I would like to answer skynightblaze's next unanswerable question (taken from Answering-Islam and concerning 17:1):
1. What is the Sacred Mosque? What is the far Distant Mosque? Where are they located?
2. Who was the servant whom Allah transported between these mysterious mosques?
3. If you say Muhammad, where are you getting that from the text? After all, the first eight verses from chapter 17 are not dealing with either Muhammad or the pagans, but with the Israelites and their sacred history.
4. Isn’t it more likely that, in light of the immediate context, the servant was Moses? It may even be Noah since he is also mentioned in the text. How do you know?
The Sacred Mosque mentioned is the same Sacred Mosque mentioned in 48:24 (Masjid al-Haram). The place of the Masjid is at Mecca (48:25). It contains the place of pilgrimage which is the Sacred House built by Ibrahim (3:96-97). Regarding the meaning of “Makkata”, these days one could just go to Bakka (Mecca) and see if there is a Sacred Mosque with a house inside. Again Allah (SWT) knew that the people of the time knew where it was (although it was not built at the time since “masjid” means place of worship). Nevertheless, the Qur’an says it was at Mecca and Muhammad (SAW) certainly knew because he went there (that is why he built upon it).

The furthest masjid is the original Qiblah known to the people of the time as that in Jerusalem (2:143). This is obvious because the Qur’an says that its surroundings were blessed (the Holy Land). Still either way, it is not necessary for our religion.


“Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing.”

Qur’an 17:1


We know it was Muhammad (SAW) because if it were Musa (SAW) then the furthest mosque would not be the furthest mosque. The Sacred Mosque would be the furthest one (at least for him, so it would make little sense). The Israelites resided in the Holy Land and this is further proof that the furthest masjid is in Jerusalem (since it mentions Musa (SAW) right after).
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

MesMorial wrote:I will answer the other points most of which require just a few sentences.

Peace to all.
You still haven't answered any of mine. Not even one. I'll take that to mean that I raised the right points and you don't have an answer for them.
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