Faith Freedom International

Ghalibkhastahaal wrote:

yeezevee wrote:Well The Cat is trying to invent some antibiotic to Viral Islam using Quran itself by juggling some surahs around dear Ghalibkhastahaal. During that exploratory process he appears to make some mistakes and he appears to be playing in to wrong hands. You see above he says contradictory statements.

" I never did endorse its authenticity nor its legitimacy" and I deal with it as -their- sacred code of laws .

You see once you make a book as sacred code of laws and IMPOSE ON OTHERS then you have a clash and you will have a problem. And in the History of "Muhammad's Islam" That is what Islam did and Quran has verses in support of that.

I do understand you concern but one must accept what the poster has declared.

yeezevee wrote: "That book, Quran is NOT a law", at least not a law for human beings to enforce. Assuming, it being the word of Allah/god whatever, only Allah/god or messengers/prophets of Allah should deal with those who don't follow the rules/laws that are there in Quran. In the present times all messengers being DEAD and no more messengers from allah/god are going to come, the followers of the messengers should NOT have any role in enforcing the laws of Quran

Thanks for your concern.

skynightblaze wrote:

The Cat wrote:Delusion: there was no authoritative hadith by 750. You're barking at the moon. In fact the only collection of hadiths we have from about that time is that of Munnabih, 138 hadiths, of which we have no manuscript evidence. They never were considered authoritative not even by Abu Hanifa.

To put a final nail in your coffin I found out that there were hadiths even during muhammads time .Read

Spoiler! :

The very existence of a huge library of hadith -- the only one of its kind among the religions of the world -- answers the question in the affirmative. To dismiss all that as later day fabrication (#1A, #2) requires lots of guts -- and equal parts ignorance. Were ahadith written down for the first time in the third century of Hijra? Not at all. Actually hadith recording and collection started at the time of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. Abd-Allah ibn Amr ibn al-'As, Radi-Allahu unhu, sought and was given the permission to write everything he heard from the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa Sallam, who said: "By the One in Whose Hands is my life! Whatever proceeds from here [pointing to his mouth] is the truth." He produced Sahifa Sadiqa, which contained more than six thousand ahadith. Anas ibn Malik, Radi-Allahu unhu, who spent ten years in Prophet's household, not only recorded the ahadith but also presented them to the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and got corrections. Abu Hurairah, Radi-Allahu unhu, had many volumes of his collections and even produced smaller compilations for his students. Prominent Hadith scholar Dr. Mustafa Azami has shown in his doctoral thesis that in the first century of Hijra many hundred booklets of hadith were in circulation. By the end of the second century, "by the most conservative estimate there were many thousands."
Of course most of these books do not exist today. They were simply absorbed into the encyclopedic collections that emerged in the third century. One manuscript from the first century was discovered in this century and published by Dr. Hamidullah. It is Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbah, who was a disciple of Abu Hurairah, Radi-Allahu unhu. It contains 138 ahadith. Muhaddithin knew that the ahadith of this Sahifa had been absorbed into Musnad Ahmed and Muslim collections, which have been published continuously since their third century debut. After the discovery of the original manuscript it was naturally compared with the ahadith in Muslim and Musnad Ahmed that were thought to have come from that Sahifa. And what did they find? There was not an iota of difference between the two. Similarly Mussanaf of Abd al-Razzaq is extant and has been published. As has been Mu'ammar ibn Rashid's al-Jami. These recently discovered original manuscripts bear out the Sihah Sitta. The recent appearance of these original manuscripts should bring the most skeptical into the fold of believers.

yeezevee wrote:

skynightblaze wrote:

The Cat wrote:Delusion: there was no authoritative hadith by 750. You're barking at the moon. In fact the only collection of hadiths we have from about that time is that of Munnabih, 138 hadiths, of which we have no manuscript evidence. They never were considered authoritative not even by Abu Hanifa.

To put a final nail in your coffin I found out that there were hadiths even during muhammads time .Read

Spoiler! :

The very existence of a huge library of hadith -- the only one of its kind among the religions of the world -- answers the question in the affirmative. To dismiss all that as later day fabrication (#1A, #2) requires lots of guts -- and equal parts ignorance. Were ahadith written down for the first time in the third century of Hijra? Not at all. Actually hadith recording and collection started at the time of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. Abd-Allah ibn Amr ibn al-'As, Radi-Allahu unhu, sought and was given the permission to write everything he heard from the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa Sallam, who said: "By the One in Whose Hands is my life! Whatever proceeds from here [pointing to his mouth] is the truth." He produced Sahifa Sadiqa, which contained more than six thousand ahadith. Anas ibn Malik, Radi-Allahu unhu, who spent ten years in Prophet's household, not only recorded the ahadith but also presented them to the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and got corrections. Abu Hurairah, Radi-Allahu unhu, had many volumes of his collections and even produced smaller compilations for his students. Prominent Hadith scholar Dr. Mustafa Azami has shown in his doctoral thesis that in the first century of Hijra many hundred booklets of hadith were in circulation. By the end of the second century, "by the most conservative estimate there were many thousands."
Of course most of these books do not exist today. They were simply absorbed into the encyclopedic collections that emerged in the third century. One manuscript from the first century was discovered in this century and published by Dr. Hamidullah. It is Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbah, who was a disciple of Abu Hurairah, Radi-Allahu unhu. It contains 138 ahadith. Muhaddithin knew that the ahadith of this Sahifa had been absorbed into Musnad Ahmed and Muslim collections, which have been published continuously since their third century debut. After the discovery of the original manuscript it was naturally compared with the ahadith in Muslim and Musnad Ahmed that were thought to have come from that Sahifa. And what did they find? There was not an iota of difference between the two. Similarly Mussanaf of Abd al-Razzaq is extant and has been published. As has been Mu'ammar ibn Rashid's al-Jami. These recently discovered original manuscripts bear out the Sihah Sitta. The recent appearance of these original manuscripts should bring the most skeptical into the fold of believers.

where did you get that which is there in spoiler dear SKB? is it from modernreligion.com???

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/c ... ctors.html

skynightblaze wrote:

yeezevee wrote:
where did you get that which is there in spoiler dear SKB? is it from modernreligion.com???

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/c ... ctors.html

YEs I forgot to place the link I guess.

Hadith: A person killed in defense of his wealth is a martyr.

yeezevee wrote:
Welcome to FFI dear MesMorial

MesMorial wrote:

yeezevee wrote:
Welcome to FFI dear MesMorial

Thankyou and peace to you.

skynightblaze wrote:
I just read his post. I shall reply to him. He claims he has explained but sadly he hasnt . All his answers are half baked. I shall refute him too .

yeezevee wrote:

MesMorial wrote:

yeezevee wrote:
Welcome to FFI dear MesMorial

Thankyou and peace to you.

Really MesMorial ?? .. Err you don't know me., Once you know in-depth what I write ., You will say

"I hate you" ., many Muslim said that to me on my face...

with best wishes
yeezevee

The Cat wrote:
Since the matter has much importance... You'll learn a thing or two therein:

Was the Bible Corrupted?
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8273

The Cat wrote:As for the rest, as usual, it doesn't worth a response. Better check if there's too much pampers in between your ears...

Are you so out of touch that you don't know why child resembles father or mother, you want me to teach like a little boy? something you should know on your own. Is you half functioning brain tells you that resemblance depends on who ejaculates first?

So what if they called him god, still don't deserved to be burned. So Ali was a criminal here. Does it bother you at all Ali one of the greatest figure of your religion did this inhumane act? Or you are just inhumane as he was, that's why don't care ..

prophet in that hadit thinks that most of the women do that, that's why there will be more women in hell. So men who are not in straight path in most cases its women fault.

Not sure what nonsense you wrote. Either you are dumb or acting dumb, or on drugs when you wrote this, to avoid what I said which was quite simple, don't have to rocket scientist to understand.

Yes its their bad luck they are not free so you can do fornication with them and its ok..... your Allah is ok with that as well .... and its not wrong and immoral.

Mentioned what? that they treated her real nice, , she forgot all about her previous life, and jumped on Ali the moment booty was given........... you are hopless

MesMorial wrote:

Spoiler! :

QUESTION 1
“And keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first hours of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds this is a reminder to the mindful.”
Qur’an 11:114
Personally I can see only 3 salaat in the Qur’an although to justify 5 people interpret 17:78 to mean noon and not sunset:
“Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.”
Qur’an 17:78
To get the fifth:
“Attend constantly to prayers and to the middle prayer and stand up truly obedient to Allah.”
Qur’an 2:238
(The middle prayer should be Asr because the sun is half-way down and in between the other prayers).
however since Islam itself is unchanged from Abraham we may or may not consider this:
One day Peter and John (two of Jesus' apostles) were going up to the temple at the time of prayer at three in the afternoon (Acts 3:1).

About noon the following day as they are approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray (Acts 10:9)

MesMorial wrote:

Spoiler! :

QUESTION 2
All positions of Salat are found in the Qur’an:
Standing position:
Then the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary: That Allah gives you the good news of Yahya verifying a Word from Allah, and honorable and chaste and a prophet from among the good ones.
Qur’an 3:39
What! he who is obedient during hours of the night, prostrating himself and standing, takes care of the hereafter and hopes for the mercy of his Lord! Say: Are those who know and those who do not know alike? Only the men of understanding are mindful.
Qur'an 39:9
Bowing and prostration positions (Rukoo' and Sajood):
And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down.
Qur’an 2:43
O Marium! keep to obedience to your Lord and humble yourself, and bow down with those who bow.
Qur’an 3:43
They who turn (to Allah), who serve (Him), who praise (Him), who fast, who bow down, who prostrate themselves, who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and who keep the limits of Allah; and give good news to the believers.
Qur’an 9:112

MesMorial wrote:QUESTION 3
Circumcision is not in the Qur’an. It is not a matter of divine decree and hence its decision is not to be made in the name of religion. It is like personal matters such as how long a man and wife spend in bed each night…

MesMorial wrote:QUESTION 4

“Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah; thus May ye show your gratitude.Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down?"Yea, - if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels Making a terrific onslaught.”

The signficiance is such that it has been detailed in the Qur’an. The lesson is that Allah well help the true believers.

MesMorial wrote:QUESTION 5

The Qur’an provides some images and a few details of the Night Journey, but its purpose is to reinforce that Muhammad (SAW) has indeed been endowed with a special favour/position from Allah (SWT). It is apparently in accordance with 72:28-29:
"He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,-
Except to him whom He chooses as a messenger…”

MesMorial wrote:QUESTION 6

The Qur’an is a warning and a correction of scripture (e.g. the Father of Fire’s wealth will not avail him). Furthermore it was assumed that the people would know who Muhammad’s uncle was (the same way it is assumed that people knew how long a month was or how to count to twelve…though I am not sure there is a lesson on that in the ahadith.) Abu Lahab was quite famous as an enemy of the Prophet (SAW) it seems. It is not relevant to the ultimate purpose of the Qur’an in 5:3 (to perfect Islam). The Qur’an is literally saying “Remember him!”

MesMorial wrote:
QUESTION 7

Most probably the punishment for adultery. The victim is not punished.

MesMorial wrote:“Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them).”

Qur’an 24:33

MesMorial wrote:QUESTION 8

There is a difference between direct inspiration of the Prophet (SAW) and revelation (which inspires all of humanity). Since Muhammad (SAW) is to be an example he is questioned about his conduct in not pleasing his wives. It is quite clearly stated and the rest of the incident simply describes how secrecy in the family is not welcome. The context is revealed in the first verse, and it is all we need though Allah (SWT) then describes how a secret was kept amongst his wives.

MesMorial wrote:QUESTION 9

It is a mix of inspiration and revelation. The slander is given in 24:6 as falsely accusing a woman of adultery. It refers to a case of such slander known to the Prophet (SAW) at the time. It is in no way mysterious as to the purpose of these verses. Those who lie and are caught will be punished. Those who are not caught will be punished in the Hereafter. It is a personal inspiration to Muhammad (SAW) given so that he may reveal an example of such a situation to all believers (and encourage them).

MesMorial wrote:QUESTION 10

Alcohol is clearly condemned as detrimental and hence should be forbidden in an Islamic society. However since it is not explicitly prohibited then certainly believers must not indulge in it nor consume it around prayer. Great care should be taken to ensure that people are (to the best of their ability) in a state to most effectively remember Allah (SWT). Likewise gambling is a detriment. Now I believe explicit punishments were not given because it is assumed that true believers will not engage in them (this is a part of faith) and that society (i.e. the responsible law-givers) would prohibit them.
The punishments for such conduct would depend on the consequences, but as I said in the sphere of Islam it has no place. Muslims would most likely shy from any place where gambling and/or drinking were allowed (or they would exclude it from society).

skynightblaze wrote:Only muslims circumsize their kids. People from other religions usually wont do such practices. This practice is associated with your religion and its because Muhammad was circumcised

Male circumcision as a religious ritual is found in the Hebrew Bible such as Genesis .. Circumcision is most prevalent in Muslim countries and Israel, and is most prevalent in the Jewish and Muslim faiths, though also common in the United States, the Philippines, South Korea, and Ethiopia, which are predominantly Christian. It is less common in Europe, Latin America, China and India. Hodges argues that in Ancient Greece the foreskin was valued and that Greek and Roman attempts to abolish ritual circumcision were prompted by humanitarian concerns

yeezevee wrote:

skynightblaze wrote:Only muslims circumsize their kids. People from other religions usually wont do such practices. This practice is associated with your religion and its because Muhammad was circumcised

where did you get that skynightblaze? I have doubt on that., Muhammad when he announced his religion Islam he was ~ 40 year old guy .. I strongly doubt he went for circumcision at that age.,

Male circumcision as a religious ritual is found in the Hebrew Bible such as Genesis .. Circumcision is most prevalent in Muslim countries and Israel, and is most prevalent in the Jewish and Muslim faiths, though also common in the United States, the Philippines, South Korea, and Ethiopia, which are predominantly Christian. It is less common in Europe, Latin America, China and India. Hodges argues that in Ancient Greece the foreskin was valued and that Greek and Roman attempts to abolish ritual circumcision were prompted by humanitarian concerns

that is from wiki...

skynightblaze wrote:

I think it was a pagan custom to circumcise young boys so Muhammad must have been circumcised when he was a baby . ....
Read here for various hadiths on circumcision.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/C/ ... ision.html

Little is known about the daily life of the Ancient Egyptians, but proof of circumcision abounds in temple reliefs. Early Egyptologists assumed that all Egyptian males were circumcised, but more recently both circumcised and uncircumcised penises have been found on the unwrapped mummies of pharaohs. Modern Egyptologists have pondered about just whom among the Egyptians were circumcised and why. An early Masonic historian, Godfrey Higgins ("Anacalypsis", London 1836), writes, "Priests only of the Egyptians were circumcised." Candidates for priesthood, and for circumcision, were usually chosen from among puberty-age, virgin boys. Quoting modern Masonic historian, Manly P. Hall ("Freemasonry of the Ancient Egyptians", Los Angeles 1936), "In ancient Egypt learning was regarded as a high privilege and education was under the direction of a small number of individuals who were organized into bonds, pledges and vows of secrecy....(a candidate) having applied at Heliopolis, was referred to the Learned of the Institution at Memphis, and these sent him to Thebes (where) he was circumcised."

GEN 17:9, 14, JAM 2:23 God said to Abraham (his friend), you shall keep my covenant (command to circumcise) you and your children after you in their generations.

This is my covenant, you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it (the flesh) shall be a token of the covenant (that you obeyed) between you and me.

He that is eight days old shall be circumcised (cut) among you every man-child in your generations.

He that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money (slave) must be circumcised.

The uncircumcised man-child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off (damned) from his people; he has broken my covenant (not obeyed my order).

GEN 6:18 But with you (Noah) will I instigate my covenant; and you shall come into the ark you, your sons, your wife and your sons' wives with you.

This (ark) is the forerunner of circumcision; the covenant is (separation by faith) of Noah and his family from the masses to be drowned.

CIRCUMCISION COMES WITH PROMISE. TALMUD.

DEU 30:6 The LORD your God will circumcise your mind and the mind of your sons, to love the LORD your God with your entire mind and with all your soul that you may live (to love God man needs his help).

Talmud: The eighth day for circumcision is chosen because it is the first day of the mother’s cleanliness after her child’s birth.

Talmud: Guests to see the child are not to show joy until after the wife’s purity.

Talmud: An infant must never be circumcised before the eighth day or after the twelfth day.

Talmud: The whole eighth day is valid for circumcision.

Talmud: Circumcision heals faster when done on the eighth day.

Talmud: A woman is not qualified by God to circumcise.

Talmud: A special prayer is to be given at circumcision.

EXO 4:23, 26 It came to pass on the way to the inn that the LORD met Moses and sought to kill him because he did not circumcise him.

EXO 2:22 Then Zipporah to save the life of (Gershom) took a sharp stone and cut off the foreskin of her son and cast it at Moses feet and said, surely you are a bloody husband to me.

GAL 5:6 In Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith (in the one God) which works by love (of him).

IF A RABBI DOES NOT CIRCUMCISE A MATURE MALE, THEN THE MALE MUST CIRCUMCISE HIMSELF. TALMUD

If there is no Hebrew physician in the town then a male heathen may perform the circumcision.

Talmud: But not in the name of an idol.

Talmud: A father who is circumcised may circumcise his own son.

GEN 17:24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he circumcised himself in the flesh of his foreskin.

THE FATHER IS REQUIRED TO CIRCUMCISE THE SON. TALMUD

GEN 21:4 Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old as God had commanded him.

Talmud: Before and after circumcision the infant must be washed in hot water.

Talmud: There are special ingredients for treating the circumcision wound.

Talmud: An infant who is ill is not to be circumcised until he recovers.

DEU 10:16 circumcise the foreskin of your mind and be no more stiff-necked.

Talmud: Circumcision of mind means, to be killed all the daylong for God.

Talmud: Never cover the circumcision when bathing with men.

Covering the circumcision shows you are ashamed of it and God.

Talmud: To stand circumcised (naked) before God shows him you offered to him part of the law.

Talmud: One who has two brothers that died by circumcision is not to be circumcised.

Talmud: A child can be circumcised on the Sabbath if it is his eighth day after birth.

Talmud: Do not miss a circumcision even if a relative died.

Talmud: Remembering your circumcision will make you think of God and thus help resist sex-lust.

ROM 2:25, 28 Circumcision only profits if you (Hebrew) keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law your circumcision is made uncircumcision.

So then if the uncircumcision (Gentiles) keep the right living of the law, shall not their uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh.

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the mind, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

ROM 3:1, 2 What advantage then has the Jew? Or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way; chiefly because that unto them were committed the laws of God.

Circumcision in the flesh was to Hebrews first and then to Gentiles who are now circumcised in mind by faith.

ROM 3:30 It is one God which shall justify the circumcision (Hebrews) by faith and uncircumcision (Gentiles) through faith.

THE PIOUS OF ALL NATIONS THOUGH NOT CIRCUMCISED HAVE A PORTION IN THE WORLD TO COME. TALMUD

ROM 4:10, 12 How was it then judged? When he (Abraham) was in circumcision or in uncircumcision?

Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Abraham received the sign of circumcision, a start of the faith to come when he was uncircumcised.

That he might be the father of all them that believe (faith) though they be not circumcised, that right living might be imputed unto them also.

Abraham became the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Talmud: The circumcised are preferred before the uncircumcised in holy rituals.

Talmud: The Passover meal (communion) cannot be eaten by the uncircumcised (God haters).

Talmud: They are the same as unclean persons.

1CO 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised (a Hebrew following God's commands)? Let him not become uncircumcised (by not obeying Jewish laws). Is any called in uncircumcision (a Gentil)? Let him not be circumcised (become a Hebrew).

1CO 7:19 Circumcision (in the flesh) is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God.

NO ONE CAN SERVE GOD UNLESS CIRCUMCISED IN FLESH AND MIND. TALMUD

ACT 15:1, 24 Certain Pharisees taught the brethren, and troubled you with words, subverting your souls saying, except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

PENTECOSTALS ARE MADE NEW CREATIONS IN CHRIST JESUS

PHI 3:3 We are the circumcision which worship God in the SPIRIT (tongues) and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

COL 2:11 In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body (sins of the flesh) by the circumcision of Jesus, (his death on the tree).

COL 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian (a rude, wild, uncivilized person), Bond nor free: but Christ Jesus is all, and in all.

GAL 6:12 Only those who desire to make a fair show in the flesh constrain you to be circumcised; because they might suffer persecution (from Orthodox Hebrews for not circumcising) for the cross of Christ Jesus.

EVEN GREAT MEN OF GOD DO DUMB THINGS.

PHI 3:5 Paul was circumcised the eighth day of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee.

ACTS 16:3 Paul wanted Timothy to travel with him but first had him circumcised because of the Jews, which knew that his father was a Greek.

And please SEND YOUR TITHE AND LOVE OFFERINGS TO:

PROPHET R. M. HANDS

POB 1505

WILMINGTON, CA 90748

iffo wrote:Witty, where did you go my WittyBoy, ran away?

MesMorial wrote:

yeezevee wrote:
Welcome to FFI dear MesMorial

Thankyou and peace to you.