Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

[iffo]

Witty O WittyBoy where did you go, went on military again or hidding?

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7991&start=600#p129764

[The Cat]

(there goes the answering machine)

Seems a waste of time when people will believe whatever they want to believe

4.87: Whose hadith (Hadithaan) can be truer than Allah's?

And allah says in quran follow example of mo. Allah's words in quran are true. So recorded example of mo is to be followed

7.185: In what HADITH (Hadithin) after this will they believe?

And allah says in quran follow example of mo. Allah's words in quran are true. So recorded example of mo is to be followed

9.31: They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks (ie. Hanbal/Bukhari; imams and sheiks) and the
Messiah son of Mary (or Muhammad turned into such an Islamic Messiah), when they were bidden to worship only One God.

Irrelevant as far as following mo's example is concerned

16.116: And do not say (...) This is lawful and this is prohibited, in order to forge against Allah the lie...

Applies to fabricated lies. Does not prove hadiths are fabricated lies (except in one's wishful thinking)

31.6: Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith (Al-Hadithi), and thus divert others from the path of GOD.

Prove that mo's recorded example are baseless hadiths.

45.6: In which Hadith (Hadithin) other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?

And allah says in quran follow example of mo. Allah's words in quran are true. So recorded example of mo is to be followed

45:18 And now have We set thee (O Muhammad) on a clear road of (Our) commandment (Alá Shari`atin);
so follow it, and follow not the whims of those who know not.

Here in fact, allah says mo was shown the clear path. Since 33.21 says follow example of mo we must conclude that the example of mo is the clear path of allah. This in fact validates recorded information of mo since that is the only way the example of mo can be followed.

45.16 And verily we gave the Children of Israel the Scripture and the Command and the Prophethood (Al-Hukma Wa An-Nubuwata),
and provided them with good things and favoured them above (all) peoples...

irrelevant to discussion

42.13: He hath ordained for you that religion (Shara`a Lakum Mina Ad-Dini) which He commended unto Noah,
and that which We inspire in thee (Muhammad), and that which We commended unto Abraham and Moses and Jesus,
saying: Establish the religion, and be not divided therein.

irrelevant to discussion on validity of hadiths that record mo's actions and habits....

The irrelevance is all yours, just like snb your alter-ego just parroting each other.

Allah sufficeth for a Guide and Helper. (25.30-31)

The only Sunna to follow is that of Allah (48.23)

Period.

Get it?

[AhmedBahgat]

That jerk farth seems to have just finished a molestation session in his church

[piscohot]

That jerk farth seems to have just finished a molestation session in his church

And yet you are still unable to answer a simple question:

who's word are you following when you believed that circumcision is a requirement on muslims.

[yeezevee]

That jerk farth seems to have just finished a molestation session in his church

And yet you are still unable to answer a simple question:

who's word are you following when you believed that circumcision is a requirement on muslims.

well "piscohot"., that procedure comes out of Fitrah, and related to five rituals : circumcision, shaving the pubic hair, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails and removing the hair of the armpits." ., these things come out of hadith with an indirect support from Quran from verses such as

"And whatsoever the Messenger of Allah gives you, take it. And whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)." (59:7)

"O' you who believe, obey Allah and obey His Messenger and those of authority (Ulama') among you." (4:59)

and Hadith from by Bukhari, al-Muwatta & the Group. In Islam, circumcision (Khitan) is not a symbol of Allah's covenant with humans. and is not mentioned anywhere in the Qur'an, Most references to circumcision occur in the examples and traditions of the Prophet (s.A.w.) and those of his companions.

"Circumcision is Sunnah for men, a noble action for women" (Related by Ahmad & al-Bayhaq)

And al-Hasan al-Basri said: "That all peoples, white and black, Romans, Persians and Abbysinnians accepted Islam in the time of the Prophet (s.A.w.) and none of them were investigated concerning circumcision"

The Shafi'i school says that circumcision is obligatory (Fard) upon the men and the women. While Imam Ahmad said: "Circumcision is obligatory (Wajib) upon the men and it is only good for the women".

Ibn Abbas, one of the most liberal Fuqaha' among the Sahabah recommends circumcision strongly, saying that the prayer (Solah) and the Hajj of a man who is not circumcised are of no value. Imam Malik said that an uncircumcised man cannot lead the prayer although Qadi Iyadh, one of the later Maliki scholars from the Murabitun (western Muslimdom) says that it is Makruhat (disliked) for the uncircumcised Imam to lead the prayer. Ibn Hajr al-Haytami's work of al-Zawajir 'an Iqtiraf al-Kaba'ir which is similar to ad-Dhahabi's work of al-Kaba'ir (the Great Sins), lists down actions that the Jumhur of Fuqaha' has agreed upon as acts of misconduct. Under the chapter of 'Justice', Ibn Hajr writes: "men not getting circumcised, even after having reached puberty (Baligh) is an enormity" if done so without a valid reason.

For more detailed references see: Al-Sharh al-Kabir 2/126; Sharh ar-Risalah 1/393; Al-Mughni 1/58; al-Qawanin al-Fiqhiyyah pg. 192; al-Ifsah li Ibn Habirah 1/206; al-Darar al-Mubahah fi al-Hazr wa al-Ibahah li al-Shaybani al-Nahlawi pg. 33 and Sharh al-Inayah ala al-Hidayah fi Takmilah al-Fath vol. 8 pg. 99.

During the time of the Prophet (s.A.w.), circumcision was done for boys at about the time of their Aqiqah, as reported in al-Bayhaq. Other Ahadith mention it being done later. The details here are not important but it goes without saying that this minor operation is easier on a baby than it is on an older boy. If it is essential, circumcision can be delayed for practical reasons, but it would be sensible to perform circumcision before the boy starts praying regularly due to practical purposes of simplifying Taharah, or being clean.

Abdullah Ibn Jabir (r.a.) and Aisha (r.a.) said:

"The Prophet (s.A.w.) performed the Aqiqah of al-Hasan and al-Hussein and circumcised them on the 7th. day." (Related by al-Bayhaq & Tabarani)

Circumcision of Girls (Khafd):

If the circumcision of women is to be done, it involves cutting only the outer portion of the clitoris and not as is done in some Muslim countries as cutting off all the entire clitoris. 'Female circumcision' of the type practised by some people in Somalia, Egypt and some other African countries is a mutilation forbidden in Islam.

There is a Hadith reported by Umm 'Atiyyah: "A woman used to perform circumcision in Madinah. The Prophet (s.A.w.) said to her: 'When you circumcise, do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.'" (Related by Abu Dawud & al-Bayhaq)

When explaining this Hadith, the Ulama' say this Hadith points out that if a woman is circumcised, it would make her more sensitive during sexual intercourse and that they are told not to cut off all the clitoris for this would result in sexual problems. It is only removing the prepuce (bazr) of the clitoris, not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert. Most Ulama' say that this Hadith does not convey that it is an obligation for it only carries a request. The Hadith quoted above may be speaking about a social custom where women used to be circumcised. Furthermore this Hadith is considered Da'if (a weak Hadith). Abu Dawud himself commented: "It is not a strong tradition. It has been transmitted in Mursal form (missing link of the Sahabah). A narrator, Muhammad bin Hassan is obscure, and this Hadith is Da'if."

For most of the Shafi'i school, circumcision is obligatory upon the women. While the Hanbali school and few scholars of the Shafi'i school holds that circumcision of women is not obligatory but Sunnah, while the Hanafi and the Maliki consider it a mere courtesy to the husband. And according to some scholars, female circumcision is customarily done in a hot climate. (Fiqh al-Islam wa Adillatihi 3/741)

"Indeed God loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean."

"O' Allah, the Turner of hearts, turn our hearts to Your Obedience."

"Our Lord, bestow on us Mercy from Yourself, and dispose of our affairs for us in the Right Way." (18:20)

well on this aspect The book says something else., Stupid muslim monkeys do something else

http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptio ... ision.html



lol.. that is funny image.. lol..

Ohyee Muslim FOOL.. "stop doing anything that is painful to you and to your children body and stop cutting stuff from kids"... verse xxx.xxx That is a command from Allah through the messenger "yeezevee" .... lol...

[AhmedBahgat]

yekee

are most americans muslims?

Circumcision rates vary widely by region in the United States. In the midwest and southeast, circumcision rates remain as high as 65%, while in the western united states, circumcision rates are generally well below 25%.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_common_is ... ted_States

dismiss yourself, stupid bum

[piscohot]

yekee

are most americans muslims?

Circumcision rates vary widely by region in the United States. In the midwest and southeast, circumcision rates remain as high as 65%, while in the western united states, circumcision rates are generally well below 25%.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_common_is ... ted_States

dismiss yourself, stupid bum

dumb

what does it matter if all kafirs were circumcised?
It's not COMPULSORY on them.

You on the other hand believed circumcision is compulsory on muslims.
So, whose orders made you believed that circumcision is compulsory on muslims?

[AhmedBahgat]

Ahmed chose to reply to uncircumcised filthy inmate piss:

yekee

are most americans muslims?

Circumcision rates vary widely by region in the United States. In the midwest and southeast, circumcision rates remain as high as 65%, while in the western united states, circumcision rates are generally well below 25%.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_common_is ... ted_States

dismiss yourself, stupid bum

dumb

what does it matter if all kafirs were circumcised?
It's not COMPULSORY on them.

You on the other hand believed circumcision is compulsory on muslims.
So, whose orders made you believed that circumcision is compulsory on muslims?

Listen filthy inmate, it means that most Americans are obeying the men of authority (doctors) exactly like the Muslims

Now, shove your filthy arse back in your cell, you are dismissed.

[piscohot]

Listen filthy inmate, it means that most Americans are obeying the men of authority (doctors) exactly like the Muslims

Now, shove your filthy arse back in your cell, you are dismissed.

you just keep walking right into it everytime.

do you realised you just confirmed that when Allah said" obey Allah and his messengers and men of authority", Allah was also referring to things outside of the quran?


can you name ONE american doctor who ordered americans to be circumcised?


dumb dumb

[AhmedBahgat]

Ahmed chose to reply for the last time to filthy inmate piss

Listen filthy inmate, it means that most Americans are obeying the men of authority (doctors) exactly like the Muslims

Now, shove your filthy arse back in your cell, you are dismissed.

you just keep walking right into it everytime.

do you realised you just confirmed that when Allah said" obey Allah and his messengers and men of authority", Allah was also referring to things outside of the quran?


can you name ONE american doctor who ordered americans to be circumcised?


dumb dumb

But how to pray is not in the Quran either sharmooot

Let me clear your ignorance, filthy bum

The Quran command us to be clean and not filthy like you, consequently the men of authority (doctors) advised us that to be clean and not filthy like you we must circumcise our children

Likewise is prayer, Quran command us to pray, the prophet showed us how to pray,

Again, you filthy kafir, The Quran command us to be clean, and the men of authority showed us how to be clean by implementing circumcision

Back to your cell, filthy inmate, your other filthy lover is waiting for you

[yeezevee]

yekee

are most americans muslims?

Circumcision rates vary widely by region in the United States. In the midwest and southeast, circumcision rates remain as high as 65%, while in the western united states, circumcision rates are generally well below 25%.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_common_is ... ted_States

dismiss yourself, stupid bum

dumb

what does it matter if all kafirs were circumcised?
It's not COMPULSORY on them.

You on the other hand believed circumcision is compulsory on muslims.

The fool doesn't even realize i was supporting Quran only Muslims in that post..

So, whose orders made you believed that circumcision is compulsory on muslims?

Thar was dr. Muhammad

The Prophet (s.A.w.) performed the Aqiqah of al-Hasan and al-Hussein and circumcised them on the 7th. day." (Related by al-Bayhaq & Tabarani)

[Ghalibkhastahaal]

Ahmed chose to reply for the last time to filthy inmate piss

Listen filthy inmate, it means that most Americans are obeying the men of authority (doctors) exactly like the Muslims

Now, shove your filthy arse back in your cell, you are dismissed.

you just keep walking right into it everytime.

do you realised you just confirmed that when Allah said" obey Allah and his messengers and men of authority", Allah was also referring to things outside of the quran?


can you name ONE american doctor who ordered americans to be circumcised?


dumb dumb

But how to pray is not in the Quran either sharmooot

Let me clear your ignorance, filthy bum

The Quran command us to be clean and not filthy like you, consequently the men of authority (doctors) advised us that to be clean and not filthy like you we must circumcise our children

Likewise is prayer, Quran command us to pray, the prophet showed us how to pray,

Again, you filthy kafir, The Quran command us to be clean, and the men of authority showed us how to be clean by implementing circumcision

Back to your cell, filthy inmate, your other filthy lover is waiting for you

Brother,

Salaams to you

I have read your explanations and I am impressed.

May I ask you why do you ridicule posters, who appear not to have any real knowledge?

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

:blahblah1: (there goes the answering machine)

Which means, you don't have an answer. Thank you. And everybody's supposed to pretend you were never asked about 63:4. How can you defend a book that has clear errors such as 63:4 right in front of your face?? If you follow the Quran, you are following Muhammad. At least the hadiths were sometimes legitimate eye witness accounts, rather than the inventions of a pedophile desert bandit.

[darth]

(there goes the answering machine)

Yes, personal attacks strengthen your argument!

Allah sufficeth for a Guide and Helper. (25.30-31)

And allah says in quran follow example of mo. Allah's words in quran are true. So recorded example of mo is to be followed.

The only Sunna to follow is that of Allah (48.23)

Period.

Get it?

48.23 - [This is] the established way of Allah which has occurred before. And never will you find in the way of Allah any change.

Another irrelevancy to the topic of following the example of mo

I have read your explanations and I am impressed.

May I ask you why do you ridicule posters, who appear not to have any real knowledge?

Because his arguments are too silly to be taken seriously by any person with logic. Only muslims who are ready to be convinced will be convinced. So he needs to resort to childishness. Now the cat has also taken to imitating him. Stupidity apparently is contagious.

And "Ghalibkhastahaal", don't be too convinced by his nonsense. Pages after pages and he is not able to prove that hadiths are unnecessary as is obvious in cases like prayer, circumscision etc. (where quranic instructions are missing)

[skynightblaze]

The only point I want to make throughout this debate is hadiths are a part of islam . I am defending their authenticity and not the content.

Do you mean that before circa 830 no one professed Islam?
Even the Mazhabs came before that. Were they un-Islamic?

How many times does one need to refute you so that you may get? they werent required because they had the first hand experience from muhammad especially the companions.Quran and hadiths were there in their hearts and sunna of muhammad was a common knowledge.Thats why we see some people in the hadiths mentioning this fact that the religious guidance may be lost and hence its required to be written down.

I was not supposed to reply to you because your arguments are too poor to reply but it seems that I cant resist replying.

And... recognizing their legitimacy makes you morally responsible.
Same as if you'd recognized Mein Kampf's legitimacy or authority.
Although it is 'authentic'... its authenticity is a very different thing.
Recognizing its authenticity, you're truthfully endorsing the content.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/authenticity

The quality or condition of being authentic, trustworthy, or genuine.

Genuineness, legitimacy, believability, credibility, credibleness
- the quality of being believable or trustworthy.

Mein Kampf is an authentic book, but its authenticity is quite disgusting.
And so are you. At best, a pity.

Right now the pathetic thing is your logic. Please improve it .None is denying here that hadiths are criminal. All we are saying is they are the truth.

[skynightblaze]

Deluded boy, I dont need the prophet to tell me directly follow Quran:

اتَّبِعُواْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعُواْ مِن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاء قَلِيلاً مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ (3)
Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him any guardians. Little do you remember.
[Al Quran ; 7:3]

-> See: Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord. Last time I checked the man made books of bukhari, muslim and all books of tafsir were not part of what Allah sent down.

Dismiss yourself, dumby

You also have been shown that you cant explain the quran without the hadiths. You have been shown the verses . For e,g you tried to tell us that we are supposed to follow excellent example in muhammad via quran. You and your ancestors followed an excellent example in muhammad with respect to praying 5 times and how to pray(oral hadith) and also circumcision.. If muhammad was to be obeyed only with respect to quran then how did these practices come about? ITs obvious that early muslims followed these practices by emulating muhammad in real life and hence these were passed down to future generations.
I will again show you the verses that warrant hadith so you also need to dismiss yourself and follow the hadiths.

[yeezevee]

The Cat says : Mein Kampf is an authentic book, but its authenticity is quite disgusting.
And so are you. At best, a pity.

SKB responds: Right now the pathetic thing is your logic. Please improve it . None is denying here that hadiths are criminal. All we are saying is they are the truth.

Well My English language skills are not that good but let me repeat those statements in my own words to make sure that I and readers understand them the way they mean. On the way let me give the link to that book "Mein Kampf' by Mr. Hitler so readers can read it.. http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/ you have a full book there. I am of the opinion no book is disgusting., may be the actions of author's followers based on that book and some actions of the author may be disgusting or Criminal in nature..

So dear The Cat, what is so authentic about that book and why is it disgusting?? I am not sure you read the book.. Please read whole book before you comment..

And dear SKB., you mean to say Mein Kampf is authentic book, So the Hadith "BOOKS" also authentic??

You know Well there are differences between these two book. Mein Kamf author is authentically Hitler., but Author of Hadith is NOT Muhammad. I would say same thing to Quran. . Mr. Muhammad was NOT author of Quran. Also I don't think "Mein Kampf" has any truth in it and I say SOME OF THE hadith are also untrue

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

If the Quran is sufficient on it's own, then what are we to make about all of the verses of violence?? If there is no context of it being against a certain people during a certain time, then those verses apply to anybody who is not a Muslim, at any time, even today. The terrorists would certainly like that.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

The Cat says : Mein Kampf is an authentic book, but its authenticity is quite disgusting.

And the Quran is every bit as bigoted and violent. I really don't see much difference. They both talk about violence and subjugation and oppression of "inferior" people.

[yeezevee]

The Cat says : Mein Kampf is an authentic book, but its authenticity is quite disgusting.

And the Quran is every bit as bigoted and violent. I really don't see much difference. They both talk about violence and subjugation and oppression of "inferior" people.

Well whole Quran is NOT bigoted and violent, but there are verses in it that are bigoted and violent against those who question it.

If the Quran is sufficient on it's own, then what are we to make about all of the verses of violence??[/u]

Again, the verses that have voilent sayings will not stand on their own hence they need tafsir and hadith. In fact some of the verses that have names/stories of people from earlier religions or the names from Muhammad's times also need OT and NT + Arabian Pagan stories of that time also need help to explain them.

But one has to realize that some verses such as what The Cat Quotes in this thread can stand themselves without any help ..for e.g. this one..

Surah Al-Fatiha verses 1 to 7 :

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. The Beneficent, the Merciful, Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help. Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

those sayings above do not need any help and stand on their own wording. So the context and even Muhammad is not necessary to explain them.

with best
yeezevee