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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:09 am
by AhmedBahgat
Ahmed Bahgat wrote:Where exactly that I said the prophet should have said it to one person only?

Read again you stupid child molster (according to your own admission), I said TO A FEW AND NOT ALL


skynightblaze wrote:Its clear that it was a public news as these narrators seemed to have told almost everyone then what is the point in hiding such news from the people? I dont think Bukhari was completely wrong here.


It was not, you deluded kafir, THE PROPHET PROHIBITED MAAZ TO SAY IT TO ALL THE PEOPLE

YOUR LOVER BUKHARI SAID IT TO ALL THE PEOPLE

ARE YOU THAT DUMB OR WHAT?

skynightblaze wrote:If these fellows were to be blamed for spreading the news then you should also blame your prophet and Allah because Allah should have known in advance that these fellows are going to leak this and hence he should have warned muhammad not to disclose this news or atleast muhammad should have used his common sense not to tell it to anyone.Every single person is at fault here and not just Bukhari and that includes your prophet too if at all you want to blame.


No punk, becuase it is quite possible that the prophet never said so

Why dont you prove it beyond an atom weight of doubt that he said so?

Back to you, deluded dumby

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:12 am
by -Peace-
AhmedBahgat wrote:It was not you deluded kafir


AhmedBahgat wrote:Back to you, deluded dumby

Anyone else see irony in these remarks by AhmedBahgat? :wink:

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:39 am
by piscohot
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wootah wrote:Go AB! Destroy Islam.


I am destroying al msuhrikoon, you kafir bound to hell

Islam will never be destroyed, it is preserved in Quran along with the prophet sahih hadith, you fool

As we have seen clearly that the prophet commanded his sahabah not to write his hadith other than Quran



What is the 'prophet sahih hadith', Bahgat?

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:10 pm
by skynightblaze
yeezevee wrote:You know well those hadiths are stories and were written 100s of years after Muhammad., So again, let us say all Muslims get educated and reject All hadiths..Shai / unshai., authentic/non authentic and they become peaceful Muslims like millions of Indian subcontinent Muslims similar to your sufis., Then would it be O.K with you that Muslim believe ONLY IN QURAN and nothing else ? But keep in mind that will be short of demise of Islam..


I cannot disagree with you that rejecting hadiths would make things better for the society than what it is now but I still think that rejecting hadiths would still make them cling to quran which is equally toxic if not more .The job is still half done as you have said .

What I believe is if hadiths are proven as authentic then people would know that muhammad was a very evil man. In such case why would anyone bother to believe in the quran when they know muhammad was a criminal? Hadiths have the power to defeat islam in entirety .I actually would like to have a poll where only ex muslims should vote. I would like to know what was more influential in their leaving islam i.e hadiths or the quran itself? Some might vote both but I want which one is more influential.

I think hadiths are more effective in pushing more towards the journey of apostasy than the quran.

I also understand the consequences of my line of argument. I mean if hadiths are proven authentic then there is a chance that muslims instead of rejecting muhammad take them as valid sources. In that case I would have to repent so to be frank I am not sure whether my argument is right.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:36 pm
by AhmedBahgat
@ kid sky

Glad that you know yourself well, nothing but a confused kid bound to hell with your two lovers, Ugly and Abu Hurairah

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:23 pm
by WittyBoy
@ AhmedBahgat

Forget marriage you confused boy, let’s see if how to pray is explained in... (some crap can't be said by a true Muslim)


Debating you is over at this point, because you are disabled to meet the challenge and get from Quran even how to have a legitimate Islamic Marriage.

From the beginning you proved that you aren't a true Muslim by your immoral way in discussion which obviously breaches the Quran teachings in discussion.

The second proof that you aren't a true Muslim is your misunderstanding to Quran is the following,
See how all those prophets never asked their people to obey Allah, that is bcuase obeying them is like obeying Allah,..


Prophets was inviting unbelievers to obey them and believe in their messages, the situation is different, the verse i mentioned said : "O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger"

The third proof of your misunderstanding of Quran,
See: And We have certainly given you seven verses AND the great Quran. , while the seven verses are part of the great Quran, yet Allah used the WAW in between while referring to one thing, THE QURAN


But Allah didn't say :"We given you seven verses, and given you the great Quran", but He(Almighty) said: "obey Allah, and obey the Messenger", and said too: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger"

The Quran used the word 'Obey' in the same sentence one time to command obeying Allah and His messenger 6 times in Quran


So what?? Did they obligate the verse mentioned or what?? they don't deny this statement: "O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you."

of course it doesn't mean "follow Quran, and follow Quran, and those charged...."

another verse said "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger"

of course it doesn't mean "come to Quran, and to Quran"

the forth proof of misunderstanding Quran:
See: Whoever obeys the messenger, then he has certainly obeyed Allah , i.e. it is ONE OBEYING, not two obeying as the Mushrikoon lie while tap dancing to justify their crime of shirk.


:*)
you used a verse proves you wrong, this verse presents an indirect obeying, of course it's not Quran.

Let's see your valuable arguments:

About the details of prayers,
I didn't claim that they exist in Hadiths collections, you challenged me to prove something i didn't claim at all, but it's you who claim that Quran includes all Islamic laws and rules. It's you who has to meet this challenge and get the details of prayers from Quran, if not, then don't come up with a claim bigger than you.

About forbidding writing hadiths,
The Prophet(pbuh) forbade that not to mix Quran with hadiths but He allowed it later,

Abu Dawood , Book 25, Number 3639:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:
I used to write everything which I heard from the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). I intended (by it) to memorise it. The Quraysh prohibited me saying: Do you write everything that you hear from him while the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) is a human being: he speaks in anger and pleasure? So I stopped writing, and mentioned it to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). He signalled with his finger to him mouth and said: Write, by Him in Whose hand my soul lies, only right comes out from it.


Abu Dawood, Book 25, Number 3652:

Narrated Zayd ibn Thabit:
I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: May Allah brighten a man who hears a tradition from us, gets it by heart and passes it on to others. Many a bearer of knowledge conveys it to one who is more versed than he is; and many a bearer of knowledge is not versed in it.


al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 113:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
There is none among the companions of the Prophet who has narrated more Hadiths than I except 'Abdallah bin Amr (bin Al-'As) who used to write them and I never did the same.

al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 112:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
.....In the meantime a man from Yemen came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Get that written for me." The Prophet ordered his companions to write that for him....

How the Muslims did in the first 200 years when your man made books of your associates were not invented yet?

Simply people who memorized these hadiths used to teach them to the others, but by the time, these hadiths would be forgotten without writing, this doesn't need explanation at all.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:54 pm
by WittyBoy
iffo wrote:and then moving on to next.

A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina [Madîna]. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: 'Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.'–Sunan Abu Dawûd, Book 41, #5251.


This cruel practice looks like was going on that time in Medina based on hadith, and prophet instead of banning it approves it. Would you like to do that to your family members?


BTW, Abu Dawoud himself said that this hadith is "daef", but it's narrated by other scholars(i.g. al-Tabarani, al-Baihaqi, al-Hakem)

Secondly, circumcision isn't a cruel practice in all cases, and according to this hadith, the prophet(pbuh) said: "Don't cut severely", so in case that a girl body doesn't need it at all, so it's forbidden, because it would be considered cutting severely. For boys, there's no harm at all, but even it would be a harm because of that, we can't put a child in danger only to apply a Sunna.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:01 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
Hey wittyboy, found any blacks holes on Uranus lately?? :lol:

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:55 pm
by The Cat
WittyBoy wrote: He(Almighty) said: "obey Allah, and obey the Messenger", and said too: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger"

When do you ever read: 'Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad''? It isn't written so not even once. It is written ''Obey the messenger'' isn't it?
The Messenger is twofold: the person (in this case Muhammad) AND JIBRIL. So the believers are asked to follow what he inspired...
And NOTHING ELSE. So what isn't directly inspired by Jibril (the message delivered) is forbiden. The Sunna is only that of Allah !
ImageImage
http://tawhiyd.webs.com/sunnainquraan.htm

3.80: And he commanded you not that ye should take the angels and the prophets for lords.
Would he command you to disbelieve after ye had surrendered (to Allah) ?

31.6: Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith (Al-Ĥadīthi), and thus divert others from the path of GOD.

9.31: They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks (Imams & mullahs) and the Messiah son of Mary
(as transforming Muhammad into such an Islamic Messiah), when they were bidden to worship only One God.

45.6: In which Hadith (Ĥadīthin) other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?

WittyBoy wrote: About forbidding writing hadiths,
The Prophet(pbuh) forbade that not to mix Quran with hadiths but He allowed it later,
Abu Dawood , Book 25, Number 3639:
Abu Dawood, Book 25, Number 3652:
al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 113:
al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 112:

All these hadiths are rotten falsifications since they were interdicted by the four righteous caliphs, and respected for nearly two centuries.
http://www.quranic.org/quran_article/11 ... adiths.htm
There was a remarkable increase in the number of hadiths during the caliphate of Omar. Omar desired that all the pages on which were written the hadiths that were in the hands of the public be brought to him. Then he ordered that they be destroyed, saying: “These are like the Mishnah of the Jewish people” Ibn Sad- Tabakat.

Omar drew a parallel between the Mishnah that had contributed to the corruption of Judaism and the hadiths. Not being satisfied by mere speculation, he had them destroyed. According to our estimate, the hadiths was quite probably more correct compared to those we find today in the books of Bukhari and Muslim. To begin with, the persons who had known the Prophet were still alive and no political dissensions had yet started. Let us ask the defenders of traditional Islam if Omar had not loved and respected the Prophet. If their answer would be affirmative, they should not challenge then the defenders of the self-sufficiency of Islam. Otherwise, they should also level criticism at Omar who had the hadiths burned.

Muhammadans such as WittyBoy are worshiping their own brand of a trinity: The siras, the hadiths and the tafsirs...

16.116: And do not say (...) This is lawful and this is prohibited, in order to forge against Allah the lie...

12.111:
In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is no invented hadith (Ĥadīthāan) but a confirmation
of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:15 pm
by The Cat
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The Cat wrote:My personal opinion is that the former prophet lived in the al-Ula (thalmudic Dedan)/Mada'in Saleh region and that he was Salman The Persian, whom has a shrine over there. But he's most probably not the same as the warring Medina one. We have testimonies that he was alive and feared at least still by 640. It's noteworthy that we have no inscription mentioning this Mhmd before around Marwan, just to spread like wildfire right after.

Mada'in Saleh was then rather known as Hegra or Hijir, names strangely recalling that of the Hegira (departing, splitting).

It looks like the Medina Charter, dated 622, is the true beginning of what we now call Islam. Mecca is nowhere in sight until 710.

That is not a personal opinion, confused kafir

You are parrotting what you read on the Kuffar web site free-minds.org

I have slammed their lies over 4 year ago and ready to slam you too if you start disputing with ignorance

The personal opinion is related to Salman the Persian, different from the warring Medina one.

Everything else is confirmed by HISTORY, nothing to do with free-minds.
-- We have testimonies that he was alive and feared at least still by 640.
-- We have no inscription mentioning this Mhmd before around Marwan.
-- Mada'in Saleh was then rather known as Hegra or Hijir (where Salman has a shrine).
-- It looks like the Medina Charter, dated 622, is the true beginning of what we now call Islam.
-- Mecca is nowhere in sight until 710.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:53 pm
by AhmedBahgat
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The Cat wrote:My personal opinion is that the former prophet lived in the al-Ula (thalmudic Dedan)/Mada'in Saleh region and that he was Salman The Persian, whom has a shrine over there. But he's most probably not the same as the warring Medina one. We have testimonies that he was alive and feared at least still by 640. It's noteworthy that we have no inscription mentioning this Mhmd before around Marwan, just to spread like wildfire right after.

Mada'in Saleh was then rather known as Hegra or Hijir, names strangely recalling that of the Hegira (departing, splitting).

It looks like the Medina Charter, dated 622, is the true beginning of what we now call Islam. Mecca is nowhere in sight until 710.

That is not a personal opinion, confused kafir

You are parrotting what you read on the Kuffar web site free-minds.org

I have slammed their lies over 4 year ago and ready to slam you too if you start disputing with ignorance


The Cat wrote:The personal opinion is related to Salman the Persian, different from the warring Medina one.

Everything else is confirmed by HISTORY, nothing to do with free-minds.
-- We have testimonies that he was alive and feared at least still by 640.
-- We have no inscription mentioning this Mhmd before around Marwan.
-- Mada'in Saleh was then rather known as Hegra or Hijir (where Salman has a shrine).
-- It looks like the Medina Charter, dated 622, is the true beginning of what we now call Islam.
-- Mecca is nowhere in sight until 710.


Well, you can keep parrotting the crap by whoever, I knew that the free minders copied their work from a huge book that I have but only read about 50 pages of it in which I discovered massive arabic language mistakes, consequently I decided not to waste my time with the ignorant and wishful thinking kafirs; on the other hand my enemy that I am concentrating on are those who claim to follow Islam then promote rubbish, manipulations and lies about it, like Al-Mushrikoon and many of the Quran aloners, however I consider the enemy from the Quran aloners to be the weakest, I can expose them easily with Quran alone (my strongest weapon), and I refuted their allegation about Mecca which is on my web site if you want to refute it on their behalf, they did not refute it, they only banned me, which was good for me becuase on that day I launched Free islam which should have nothing deleted or controlled from my work.

Now you can bark or Miaw around me with the above crap as much as you want, it does not bother me, at least I am delighted that you understand that most Muslims are Mushrikoon and following another religion that was not sent down by Allah

Cheers

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:36 pm
by AhmedBahgat
WittyBoy wrote:@ AhmedBahgat


Salam

Forget marriage you confused boy, let’s see if how to pray is explained in... (some crap can't be said by a true Muslim)


WittyBoy wrote:Debating you is over at this point,


No confused Mushrik, the debate is about your rubbish man made books of crap, it is you who is deluding himself thinking that because legal marriage is not listed in Quran, then we have to shirk Quran with your man made rubbish of hadith.

It is me who posted the dirty hadith about approaching the menstrauted wives for sex through their top half for which you said nothing other than repeating the typical crap of your horny associates.

WittyBoy wrote: because you are disabled to meet the challenge and get from Quran even how to have a legitimate Islamic Marriage.


Then fine let’s consider that legal marriage is not listed in Quran, so are you going to show to us from your man made rubbish of shirk books how to pray ?

Well, how about we read something from your Evil books concerning marriage, shall we:

What should you do if you fall in love with a prostitute, or if your wife turned to be a prostitute?

Have anyone of you (guys) fell in love with a prostitute before? It never happened to me, so I am curious what you guys should do?

Should you marry her?

Or

Should you keep fukking her without marriage?

Or

Should you let go of her and look for a pious woman to be your wife?

I guess any pious man should go for the last option above, i.e. let go of her and try to find a pious woman to be your wife.

But we know that according to the rubbish man made of evil hadith, if it is the first, i.e. you you discovered that your single lover is a prostitute, then show should be lashed 100 lashes ad expelled from the land for a year (that is what the evil books of man made hadith allge)

And if it is the second, i.e. you discovered that you wive is a prostitute, then according to the evil man made books of crap hadith, she should be stoned to death with no mercy.

Yet, the man made books of evil hadith contradicted itself as normal. Simply you read in these rubbish books that you do not marry the first because she is a prostitute, but if she is your wife then divorce her and you may continue to enjoy her by fukking her.

Can you fukin believe it? You better do because I am going to show you that according to the man made books of hadith, it is ok for Muslims to commit Zina with prostitutes, as long as you do not marry her.

This hadith is from Nisaii’s man made hadith book:

The hadith is listed under a chapter that is titled: النكاح , i.e. Marriage, and under a sub-chapter that is titled: تزويج الزانية , i.e. Marrying the adulteress

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... 3176&doc=3
Image

The above hadith is alleged by the father and the grandfather of a guy named Amr Ibn Shuaib, so they said:

A guy named Murttad Ibn Abi Murttad Al-Ghalawy who was a tough guy who carries the (possibly disabled) POWs from Mecca to Medina, said: I was called to carry a guy from Mecca to Medina, so I went to him in Mecca and there was a prostitute in there named Anaq, and she was my girlfriend. So she came out after seeing me and greeted me saying: Welcome, O Murttad. Please come and sleep the night with us.

Murttad replied to her: O Anaq! The messenger of Allah has prohibited Zina (adultery)

So Anaq said loudly to everyone: O people of tents! Is this Duldul the one carrying your people from Mecca to Medina? (Possibly she meant by this Duldul [this pussy], obviously she was mocking him in front of everyone after his refusal to fuk her)

Murttad said: I left her and went to a place called Al-Khandamah, and in there, eight guys called me then they came to me and wanted to urinate on me, and their urine fell on me, so Allah blinded them from me. Then I went to the POW whom I should carry, then carried him to where he should go, then removed his shackles. After I finished the job, I went to the messenger of Allah and said: O messenger of Allah! Should I marry Anaq? The messenger did not say anything until the following verse was revealed:


The adulterer will not marry except an adulteress or a polytheist, and the adulteress will not be married except to an adulterer or a polytheist; and that is forbidden upon the believers.
[Al Quran ; 24:3]

So the messenger of Allah called me and said to me: Do not marry her.

End of hadith

This hadith sounds like an episode of Jerry Springer show, and we (the audience) have many questions, so let me speak on behalf of the audience:

Ahmed says (on behalf of the audience):

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry

Opps, I meant:

Nisaii, Nisaii, Nisaii, Nisaii, Nisaii, Nisaii, Nisaii

And:

Mushrikoon, Mushrikoon, Mushrikoon, Mushrikoon

It seems that Anaq the Meccan prostitute had very well established Meccan brothel, see, after Murttad refused to sleep with her overnight to fuk her, she mocked him loudly in front of all people by calling him This Duldul i.e. This pussy, then she sent eight men (possibly from among the Meccan pimps) after him to urinate on him. But as we read, Allah saved him and blinded them. Hahahahaha

How come it was Muhammed who prohibited Zina and not Allah, as mister Murttad said to Anaq the Meccan prostitute? Certainly it was Allah Who prohibited Zina, not Muhammed. Seems like mister Murttad was a clear cut Mushrik, see what he said to Anaq again: ‏قلت يا ‏ ‏عناق ‏ ‏إن رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏حرم الزنا , i.e. I said: The messenger of Allah has prohibited Zina (adultery). But Zina was already prohibited before Islam prohibited it, in fact, the same man made books of hadith told us that the prophet was judging by the Torah to punish the Jewish adulterers. Therefore Zina could not have been prohibited by Muhammed, and when it was prohibited under Islamic Sharia, it was prohibited by Allah.

The problem here for those bunch of confused hadith worshippers and Mushrikoon that it seems the prophet allowed and blessed committing Zina with prostitutes in their man made books of hadith, yet they are saying above that Muhammed prohibited Zina. Let’s look at the following hadith from the same man made book of hadith by Nisaii, it is the next hadith under the same sub-chapter:

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... 3177&doc=3
Image

The above hadith is alleged by Ibn Abbas, so he said:

A guy came to the messenger of Allah and said: I have a woman who is most loved to me from among all people but she does not stop any man trying to touch her.

The messenger of Allah said: Divorce her.

The guy replied: I cannot live without her.

The messenger of Allah replied: Then enjoy her.


End of hadith

Hmmmmm, what the hell was that? Enjoy her...., what that suppose to mean exactly? Yeh, enjoy fukking her. I.e. enjoy committing Zina with her after divorcing her.

There is no doubt that the woman was a Zaniah, i.e. an adulteress, i.e. a prostitute. That is what they meant when they described her as one who does not stop any man trying to touch her, see below how they explained it:

Image

I really do not want to translate the above crap word for word. But in short words, they are saying that she must have been a clear cut prostitute who always accepted any invitation for sex from any man. And they also said that touching her means having intercourse with her.

As for the alleged advice by the messenger of Allah to that man when he replied back: Then enjoy her. This is how they explained it:

Image

In short words, it means to continue fukking her seeking pleasure from her.

In effect, what is alleged above clearly shows that the noble prophet allowed and encouraged Zina (adultery), because for that man who was married to a prostitute, he was advised by the prophet to divorce her but continue to fuk her and seek pleasure from her.

And don’t forget the huge contradiction above, that is if that woman was married to that man and she was committing adultery, then she should have been stoned to death, yet she was left free to get fuked by the man who loves her.

No wonder that there are masses of sunnah lovers, the sunnah of divorcing a prostitute, then continue to have sex with her with no shame nor fear of any risk catching a disease from her after she catches it from the many men she allows them to have intercourse with her. How ridiculous and disgusting.

The matter of fact remains intact, that Nisaii hadith # 3176 in which they alleged that the messenger of Allah prohibited Zina, clearly contradicts Nisaii hadith # 3177 in which they alleged that the messenger of Allah allowed Zina. In addition to that, the prophet of Allah would have never encouraged Zina as alleged in the second hadith.

I.e. The above crap is nothing but lies

Here you have it you filthy retarded Mushrikoon bound to hell, your own man made books of evil are the ones exposing you, not me, I only present it in a shocking way to those who never read these evil books

WittyBoy wrote:From the beginning you proved that you aren't a true Muslim by your immoral way in discussion which obviously breaches the Quran teachings in discussion.


Whatever type of Muslim you want to call me or consider me, being a sinful Muslim or a bad Muslim, as long as I am not a Mushrik Muslim like you, then I may be safe inshaallah, don’t you know that Allah may forgive all sins except shirk? Possibly you don’t know that because it is in the Quran. Well, how about your man made books of evil? Don’t you know that if you meet Allah without shirking with Him anything, you head straight to heaven. Mushrik Muslim?

And btw, according to you flawed logic, all the prophets who debated with their people and family members, were not true Muslims, because they were aggressive and even called them names, like Kafiroon, Zalimoon, Fasiqoon, Dalloon, and even sought their destruction.

Keep crying, Mushrik boy; I enjoy it when I see the Mushrikoon crying in front of me. It means that my plan is working, because part of my plan is to make Al-Mushrikoon like you cry.

WittyBoy wrote:The second proof that you aren't a true Muslim is your misunderstanding to Quran is the following,
See how all those prophets never asked their people to obey Allah, that is bcuase obeying them is like obeying Allah,..


Prophets was inviting unbelievers to obey them and believe in their messages, the situation is different, the verse i mentioned said : "O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger"


Are you back again to such non sense of an argument obey Allah and His messenger, this is what Al-Musrikoon always do, nothing new. But the man made books of hadith were not mentioned in obey Allah and His messenger, you confused Mushrik boy?

Well, keep deluding yourself, you are only securing your seat in hell along with the rest of Al-Mushrikoon.

WittyBoy wrote:The third proof of your misunderstanding of Quran,


LOL, let’s see

See: And We have certainly given you seven verses AND the great Quran. , while the seven verses are part of the great Quran, yet Allah used the WAW in between while referring to one thing, THE QURAN


WittyBoy wrote:But Allah didn't say :"We given you seven verses, and given you the great Quran", but He(Almighty) said: "obey Allah, and obey the Messenger", and said too: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger"


LOL, so I don’t understand Quran like you don’t understand Arabic?

Here is one ‘Obey’ for Allah and His messenger, you confused:

قُلْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْكَافِرِينَ (32)
Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. And if they turn away, then indeed, Allah does not love the unbelievers.
[Al Quran ; 3:32]

-> What is the story here, Mushrik boy? Opps, one ‘Obey’ is used for Allah and His messenger

Current score:
Ahmed: 1
Mushrik Boy: 0

وَأَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ (132)
And obey Allah and the messenger that you may obtain mercy.
[Al Quran ; 3:132]

-> Again, one ‘Obey’ used for Allah and His messenger

Current score:
Ahmed: 2
Mushrik Boy: 0

يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الأَنفَالِ قُلِ الأَنفَالُ لِلّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ فَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَأَصْلِحُواْ ذَاتَ بِيْنِكُمْ وَأَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ (1)
They ask you about the bounties. Say: The bounties are for Allah and the messenger. So fear Allah and amend that which is between you, and obey Allah and His messenger if you should be believers.
[Al Quran ; 8:1]

-> Again, one ‘Obey’ used for Allah and His messenger.

Current score:
Ahmed: 3
Mushrik Boy: 0

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَلاَ تَوَلَّوْا عَنْهُ وَأَنتُمْ تَسْمَعُونَ (20)
O you who have believed! Obey Allah and His messenger and do not turn from him while you hear.
[Al Quran ; 8:20]

-> Again, one ‘Obey’ used for Allah and His messenger.

Current score:
Ahmed: 4
Mushrik Boy: 0

وَأَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَلاَ تَنَازَعُواْ فَتَفْشَلُواْ وَتَذْهَبَ رِيحُكُمْ وَاصْبِرُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ (46)
And obey Allah and His messenger, and do not dispute, for then you would fail and your strength would depart; and be patient. Indeed, Allah is with the patient.
[Al Quran ; 8:46]

-> Again, one ‘Obey’ used for Allah and His messenger

Current score:
Ahmed: 5
Mushrik Boy: 0

أَأَشْفَقْتُمْ أَنْ تُقَدِّمُوا بَيْنَ يَدَيْ نَجْوَاكُمْ صَدَقَاتٍ ۚ فَإِذْ لَمْ تَفْعَلُوا وَتَابَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْكُمْ فَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ (13)
Have you feared that you will not (be able to) present before your consultation charities? So when you do not do it and Allah has forgiven you, then establish prayer and pay Zakat (Alms) and obey Allah and His messenger. And Allah is, with what you do, Acquainted.
[Al Quran ; 58:13]

-> Again, one ‘Obey’ used for Allah and His messenger

Current score:
Ahmed: 6
Mushrik Boy: 0

Here you have it again, Mushrik boy, and as I told you earlier, you lack Arabic, that is because, regardless of the way it is said, being:

- Obey Allah and His messenger

or

- Obey Allah and obey His messenger

Both mean one thing, to obey Allah and His messenger in the same thing, not in bloody opposite things, like for example:

Allah prohibited us from committing Zina (which should be obeyed)

Your man made rubbish books of crap tell us that the prophet commanded that it is ok to commit Zina with a prostitute (which should be obeyed by you Mushrikoon)

So I ask you, you filthy and retarded Mushrikoon, is Muhammed another god for you who made different laws to what Allah made and because of your shirk you have to obey it too by having two different ‘obeys’?

Well, you cannot, you Nijis Mushrik Muslms, obey two opposite commands. HOW DUMB YOU ARE, it is like when Allah says, DEAF, MUTE and BLIND, they will not return, it sounds like He is talking about you, Mushrikoon.

The Quran used the word 'Obey' in the same sentence one time to command obeying Allah and His messenger 6 times in Quran


WittyBoy wrote:So what??


Nothing much, you just a dump pum in the Arabic language and simply you don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

You are programmed like he confused Christians are when they come and spin to convince us with their shirk, both of you bound to hell, that is the bad news for you, so I guess you should make the best of this short life before you check in hellbound resort.

WittyBoy wrote: Did they obligate the verse mentioned or what?? they don't deny this statement: "O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you."


Then tell us, Mushrik Muslim:

How you stop yourself from Zina and at the same time commit Zina with a prostitute that you love or been married to but divorced her after discovering that she is a prostitute?

Tough question that is, Mushrik boy. Keep spinning boy, however you may seek the guidance of your Mushrik Ulamaa and Sheikhs

WittyBoy wrote:of course it doesn't mean "follow Quran, and follow Quran, and those charged...."


It means to obey Allah and His messenger in same cause and command

Not in bloody opposite commands, you fool

WittyBoy wrote:another verse said "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger"


That is right

Allah revealed to us that we have to pray

Muhammed showed us by example how to pray

Now I ask you again, Mushrik Muslim, show us how prayer is detailed in your man made rubbish books of Evil?

WittyBoy wrote:of course it doesn't mean "come to Quran, and to Quran"


It means to come to what Allah taught Muhammed

Now Allah cannot teach Muhammed that Zina is haram and at the same time teaches him that it is ok to commit Zina, you filthy, retarded and Nijis Mushrik Muslims.

WittyBoy wrote:the forth proof of misunderstanding Quran:


It seems that you are getting close to be dismissed, but let me see how your shirk is motivating you, it helps me studying the anatomy of al Mushrikoon:

See: Whoever obeys the messenger, then he has certainly obeyed Allah , i.e. it is ONE OBEYING, not two obeying as the Mushrikoon lie while tap dancing to justify their crime of shirk.


WittyBoy wrote: :*)


Smiling is better than crying, good for you

WittyBoy wrote:you used a verse proves you wrong,


Keep deluding yourself, you are not so different to the kafirs of FFI, at least you are going to share your suites in the hellbound resort

WittyBoy wrote: this verse presents an indirect obeying, of course it's not Quran.


Hahaha, now we have direct and indirect obeying, I like your humour, boy, you should have a career as a stand up clown

WittyBoy wrote: Let's see your valuable arguments:


Was that you who classified them as valuable?

WittyBoy wrote: About the details of prayers,
I didn't claim that they exist in Hadiths collections,


Good that you know, now tell me, how we learnt Salat then?

WittyBoy wrote:you challenged me to prove something i didn't claim at all,


I agree, but at the same time you canot agree that people like me always targeted by most kafirs and mushriks with that stupid question, how we learnt salat then?

However you are asking a similar stupid question, HOW WE BLOODY LEARNT HOW TO MARRY?

Look pal, if we did not have a legal marriage before your man made rubbish books were invented then bloody oath, all of us will be sons and daughters of whores and pimps.

WittyBoy wrote:but it's you who claim that Quran includes all Islamic laws and rules.


That is right, here is a rule:

Pray.

Here is the oral sunnah inherited from the prophet:

How to pray.

Therefore, I never claimed that how to pray is detailed in Quran.

WittyBoy wrote: It's you who has to meet this challenge and get the details of prayers from Quran,


But I inherited the prayer orally, it is not like something that was done 5 times a day since the prophet times will be forgotten, are you dumb of something?

WittyBoy wrote: if not, then don't come up with a claim bigger than you.


My claim is bigger than all Mushrik Muslims combined, my claim is simply, most Muslims are Mushrikoon, and you are one of them for sure, sorry to tell you that bro, but at least you should appreciate my honesty, or you want me to be a hypocrite to you and tell you. Good Muslim boy, you are heading to paradise, I will see you there.

WittyBoy wrote:About forbidding writing hadiths,
The Prophet(pbuh) forbade that not to mix Quran with hadiths but He allowed it later,


Hahahaha, but the hadith I showed from Abi Dawoud man made book, was during Muawyah Khilafah, you confused boy, in that hadith Zaid Ibn Thabit reminded Muawiah with the command of the prophet and they deleted it, that was years after the prophet death and years after the Quran was collected, you bunch of confused Mushrikoon bound to hell, this means 100% that you are nothing but a bunch of liars who are only working hard to justify their shirk, here is the hadith again so you can spin and tab dance around it, you clear cut liar:

The polytheists were caught red handed
As we have seen clearly that the prophet commanded his sahabah not to write his hadith other than Quran. for the first 200 years the sahabah did their best to obey such command, that is why there was no books of hadith during that time, but we should also know that Iblis is always around the corner from the believers, he enticed them with passion to disobey the prophet command and write these man made books of rubbish hadith, the seed that should confuse and divide the whole believers after it grows and establish itself, exactly as Iblis wants. See in this hadith from one of the associates of Al-Mushrikoon (Sunan Abi Dawoud):

Source


حدثنا نصر بن علي أخبرنا أبو أحمد حدثنا كثير بن زيد عن المطلب بن عبد الله بن حنطب قال
دخل زيد بن ثابت على معاوية فسأله عن حديث فأمر إنسانا يكتبه فقال له زيد إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أمرنا أن لا نكتب شيئا من حديثه فمحاه



Zaid Ibn Thabit entered upon Muawiah, so Muawiah asked him about a hadith and commanded another man to write it; so Zaid said to Muawiah:

The messenger of Allah commanded us not to write anything from his hadith.

So Muawiah deleted it

---------------------------

Now how come MB (Mushrik boy), you say that prophet allowed it later, while during the time of the above incident as recorded in your man made rubbish books, the prophet was dead for years and years?

See how your shirk is either making you liar or confused or dumb or dishonest or all.

Now, to confirm your shirk, let me show you more evidences from your man made rubbish books of crap, the early sahaba AFTER the prophet death not only refrained themselves from writing hadith as commanded by the prophet but also from talking ORALLY too much about him as commanded by the prophet too:

From Ibn Magih man made book (Sunan Ibn Magih):

Image

Source

Al Shubi said:

I have accompanied Ibn Umar for a year and I never heard him transferring any hadith that was said by the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam

-> See how some of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking or transferring any hadith by the prophet, this makes sense because the prophet has died, Ibn Umar must have been obeying the prophet of not talking too much about him. This hadith also proves to us that WB is a liar who told us that the prophet allowed writing hadith later. If so, how come the sahaba were not even talking one single hadith about him? Yet WB is lying to us by telling us they were writing it, yeh yeh, writing what they refrained themselves from talking. HOW DUMB

Here is another hadith from Ibn Magih man made book telling us about another Sahabi who refrained himself from talking hadith after the prophet death:

Image

Source

Al Saib Ibn Yazid said:

I have accompanied Saad Ibn Malik from Madinah to Mecca and I have never heard him transferring one hadith that was said by the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam

-> See how more Sahabas refrained themselves from talking or transferring any hadith by the prophet,

I have to ask again: From where all these hundreds of thousands of hearsays that Bukhari, Muslim and others brought forward if many of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking about the prophet after he died as we have seen above in the hadith taken from a chapter in Ibn Magih book that is called Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith

An important note is what Al Sanadi said in his explanation to that hadith, I included Al Sanadi tafsir in the image above, sort of he was wondering, how come there are hadith carrying the names of those Sahaba while we read above that they refrained themselves from talking hadith, Al Sanadi tried to offer a reason by saying that they must have talked hadith WHEN THEY WERE IN DESPERATE NEED FOR ONE, otherwise how come there are many of hadith carrying their names as narrators, he ended his explanation by suggesting that some of the sahaba like Abu Hurairah must have been exempted from such caution, I say, that is funny by him to justify the thousands of hadith transmitted by a man whose integrity is doubted like Abu Hurairah

Al Sanadi also offered a silly explanation to why many refrained from transmitting the hadith, he said that they must have considered that their mission is finished by transmitting it to others and now it is the others who need to transmit it. Hahahahahahahah, that was bloody funny.

Here is another hadith from Ibn Magih man made book telling us about another Sahabi who refrained himself from talking hadith after the prophet death:

Image

Source

Abdul Allah Ibn Al Zobair said:

I said to Zobair Ibn Al Aawam: Why I don’t hear you saying any hadith about the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam as I hear Ibn Masood and many others?. Zobair Ibn Al Aawam replied: While I didn’t leave him (the prophet) since I embraced Islam, I heard him saying on the stand : Whoever lies about me deliberately then his seat in hell will be secured

- See that man Zobair Ibn Al Aawam, who is one of the ten promised Jannah as their hearsay hadith alleged, who will never lie DELIBRATELY about the prophet STILL REFRAINED HIMSELF FROM TALKING HADITH, obviously he chose to be careful and not indulge himself in Jerry Springer crap of conjectures that may be used by the enemy to spread lies about the prophet, a wise man he was.

Here is Omar Ibn Al-Khatab ORDERING the big mouth and hadith maniac Abu Hurairah to STOP TALKING HADITH or he will be expelled:

From the book: سير أعلام النبلاء, Sayar Aalaam Al-Nubalaa, i.e. The stories of noble ones

Author: شمس الدين أبو عبد الله محمد بن أحمد الذَهَبي , in brief: Shams Al-Zahabi


سَعِيْدُ بنُ عَبْدِ العَزِيْزِ: عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيْلَ بنِ عُبَيْدِ اللهِ، عَنِ السَّائِبِ بنِ يَزِيْدَ، سَمِعَ عُمَرَ يَقُوْلُ لأَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ:
لَتَتْرُكَنَّ الحَدِيْثَ عَنْ رَسُوْلِ اللهِ -صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ- أَوْ لأُلْحِقَنَّكَ بِأَرْضِ دَوْسٍ.
وَقَالَ لِكَعْبٍ: لَتَتْرُكَنَّ الحَدِيْثَ، أَوْ لأُلْحِقَنَّكَ بِأَرْضِ القِرَدَةِ. (2/601)


Sa’ib Bin Yazeed heard Omar Ibn Al-Khattab saying to Abi Hurairah:

You must stop saying hadith or I will expel you to the land of Dous

And Omar Ibn Al-Khattab said to Kaab Al-Ahbar:

You must stop saying hadith or I will expel you to the land of monkeys.


How humiliating for both of them, especially for Kaab Al-Ahbar, the one who mostly infected our great religion with some Jewish rubbish being an ex-Jewish himself

Under the above hadith in the same book, Abu Hurairah himself admitted that he was concealing hadith while Omar Ibn Al-Khattab was alive, fearing for his life. HOW COWARD AND DISHONEST ABU HURAIRAH WAS. See:

يَحْيَى بنُ أَيُّوْبَ: عَنِ ابْنِ عَجْلاَنَ:
أَنَّ أَبَا هُرَيْرَةَ كَانَ يَقُوْلُ: إِنِّي لأُحَدِّثُ أَحَادِيْثَ، لَوْ تَكَلَّمْتُ بِهَا فِي زَمَنِ عُمَرَ، لَشَجَّ رَأْسِي.
قُلْتُ: هَكَذَا هُوَ كَانَ عُمَرُ -رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْهُ- يَقُوْلُ: أَقِلُّوا الحَدِيْثَ عَنْ رَسُوْلِ اللهِ -صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ-.

i.e.

Ibn Aglaan said that Aba Hurairah used to say:

I tell you hadith that if I said it during Omar time, my head would have been broken.

And that is how Omar was always saying:

Minimise the hadith that you say about the messenger of Allah.

---------------

See how Omar was very tough in refraining his people from talking hadith about the prophet, this must prove to us that writing it was not allowed either, which also proves to us that WB is a liar who lied to us shamelessly and told us that the prophet allowed it later, how can they be allowed to write something that they were not allowed to talk about it?

This book سير أعلام النبلاء, Sayar Aalaam Al-Nubalaa, i.e. The stories of noble ones (as the printed copy) is 35 word documents, the above two hadith are found in document #3. I have highlighted this part in yellow in page 234 of 237. You can download it from the following link:

Download

Now, you have to know, confused boy, that you and the kafirs of FFI cannot use your man made rubbish of hadith against me. I simply reject all your man made crap.

On the other hand I can use the hadith against you and the kafirs of FFI any time I wish, simply both of you kafirs and Mushriks believe heart and soul in it, therefore all the next crap will be dismissed without even reading it:

WittyBoy wrote:Abu Dawood , Book 25, Number 3639:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:
I used to write everything which I heard from the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). I intended (by it) to memorise it. The Quraysh prohibited me saying: Do you write everything that you hear from him while the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) is a human being: he speaks in anger and pleasure? So I stopped writing, and mentioned it to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). He signalled with his finger to him mouth and said: Write, by Him in Whose hand my soul lies, only right comes out from it.


Image

WittyBoy wrote:Abu Dawood, Book 25, Number 3652:

Narrated Zayd ibn Thabit:
I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: May Allah brighten a man who hears a tradition from us, gets it by heart and passes it on to others. Many a bearer of knowledge conveys it to one who is more versed than he is; and many a bearer of knowledge is not versed in it.


Image

WittyBoy wrote:al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 113:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
There is none among the companions of the Prophet who has narrated more Hadiths than I except 'Abdallah bin Amr (bin Al-'As) who used to write them and I never did the same.


Image

WittyBoy wrote:al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 112:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
.....In the meantime a man from Yemen came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Get that written for me." The Prophet ordered his companions to write that for him....


Image

How the Muslims did in the first 200 years when your man made books of your associates were not invented yet?


WittyBoy wrote:Simply people who memorized these hadiths used to teach them to the others, but by the time, these hadiths would be forgotten without writing, this doesn't need explanation at all.


I have no problem with memorising hadith, this is how the prophet commanded the sahaba, to :

1- Not to write anything but Quran
2- Not to talk too much hadith about him
3- Memorise the hadith ONLY

I have showed you the evidences concerning command #1 from your man made book of your associate Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, for which you lied and told us that the prophet allowed it later, for which I showed a hadith and sirah proving your lie

Let me show you the evidence for the second command from your man made book of your associate Ibn Magih:
------------------------------------
Image

Source

Abi Qatada said:

I have heard the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam while he was on the stand saying : Be warned of talking too much about me, and whoever says something of what I said then he must speak truthfully and whoever lies by alleging things that I have never said then his seat in hell is secured

- See how the prophet warned the people against talking way too much about him: اياكم و كثرة الحديث عني ,Iyakum Wa Kuthrat Al Hadith Anny, i.e. Be warned of talking too much about me

Did the early Muslims obeyed the prophet? Impossible, they never stopped talking about him, and shamefully the later Mushrik Muslims followed path
-------------------------

For memorising the hadith:

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Source

Ibn Abbas said:

We were memorising the hadith and the hadith of Rasool Allah salla Allah alayhi wa sallam should be memorised, but if you ride difficulties and hardship then far, far away

-> While it was a saying by Ibn Abbas, he certainly said it after learning it from the prophet, and it is alleged that he said: والحديث يحفظ عن رسول الله , i.e. the HADITH OF RASOOL ALLAH SHOULD BE MEMORISED, this means it should not be written in a book exactly as the prophet advised them many times, not to write anything he says but the Quran.

Now, for the fear of forgetting over the years what is memorised about the messenger of Allah, SO BLOODY WHAT? Over the years the Muslims should have orally inherited how to pray, how to fast, how to pay zakat, how to do hajj, nothing more, we still have the preserved Quran about which Allah told us that IT IS THE BEST HADITH, then He commands us to FOLLOW THE BEST HADITH ONLY, i.e. we have nothing but the Quran to be followed, not your man made rubbish books of evil hadith which command the Muslims to commit Zina with prostitutes. Here is the two verses for you, Mushrik, seeking the help of Allah to make you wake up and start serving Him properly by exposing the Mushrik Muslims and saving your good religion:

الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَاهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمْ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ (18)
Those who hear the saying then follow the best of it; it is them whom Allah has guided, and it is them who possess minds.
[Al Quran ; 39:18]
-> See, الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ , i.e. the verse is talking about Those who hear the saying then follow the best of it . The verse is telling us that those who listen to the saying and follow the best of it are the ones whom Allah guided: it is them whom Allah has guided, and it is them who possess minds.

Now, I am not going to allow others to tell me which is best hadith, in fact I will not even allow myself to take on the judgement and judge which hadith is best. As a true submitter to my Lord, I am going to leave it to the best Judge, Allah:

اللَّهُ نَزَّلَ أَحْسَنَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابًا مُتَشَابِهًا مَثَانِيَ تَقْشَعِرُّ مِنْهُ جُلُودُ الَّذِينَ يَخْشَوْنَ رَبَّهُمْ ثُمَّ تَلِينُ جُلُودُهُمْ وَقُلُوبُهُمْ إِلَىٰ ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ هُدَى اللَّهِ يَهْدِي بِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَمَنْ يُضْلِلِ اللَّهُ فَمَا لَهُ مِنْ هَادٍ (23)
Allah has sent down the best of speech, a consistent and reiterating book, of which the skins of those who fear their Lord shudder, then their skins and their hearts soften to the remembrance of Allah. That is the guidance of Allah, He guides thereby whom He wills; and one whom Allah misguides, for him there will be no guide.
[Al Quran ; 39:23]
-> See how it was said in 39:23, اللَّهُ نَزَّلَ أَحْسَنَ الْحَدِيثِ , i.e. Allah has sent down the best of speech (HADITH), now considering 39:18 where Allah also told us about those who are guided by Him and are men of understanding that they only follow the best of sayings after they listened to all, we can only reach one conclusion:

- THAT THOSE WHO ARE TRULY GUIDED BY ALLAH AND UNDERSTAND HIS MESSAGE SHOULD ONLY FOLLOW THE QURAN (THE BEST OF HADITH ACCORDING TO ALLAH)

Here you have it Mushrik boy, your clear cut shirk and man made rubbish of crap and evil hadith which allow Zina with prostitutes will never extinguish the words and guidance of Allah.

I really careless if you save yourself or not from the bottom of the hell fire, however I will still seek from my Lord in my prayer to guide you and save you from the shirk of your fathers and grand fathers

Salam

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:02 am
by Muhammad bin Lyin
AhmedBahgat wrote:
WittyBoy wrote:@ AhmedBahgat


Salam

Forget marriage you confused boy, let’s see if how to pray is explained in... (some crap can't be said by a true Muslim)


WittyBoy wrote:Debating you is over at this point,


No confused Mushrik, the debate is about your rubbish man made books of crap, it is you who is deluding himself thinking that because legal marriage is not listed in Quran, then we have to shirk Quran with your man made rubbish of hadith.

It is me who posted the dirty hadith about approaching the menstrauted wives for sex through their top half for which you said nothing other than repeating the typical crap of your horny associates.

WittyBoy wrote: because you are disabled to meet the challenge and get from Quran even how to have a legitimate Islamic Marriage.


AhmedBahgat wrote:Then fine let’s consider that legal marriage is NOT listed in Quran<SNIP>


And therefore, his point about that is taken. And how many posts did it take before the dishonest charlatan even acknowledge the repeated question he clearly must have seen repeated times?? How many?? How dishonest are you??? Look at you. Look at your behavior. And the saddest part is that you have been raised to see no problem with it, otherwise you would.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:10 am
by Muhammad bin Lyin
Well, when you see the "dismissed" graphics , I'd say that Baghat's answer pool has run out. It's really nothing more than an admission that he can't think of any way to counter your argument. So Wittyboy, how does it feel to have someone attempt what are clearly lies on you, while you attempted them on others?

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:12 am
by iffo
WittyBoy wrote:
iffo wrote:and then moving on to next.

A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina [Madîna]. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: 'Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.'–Sunan Abu Dawûd, Book 41, #5251.


This cruel practice looks like was going on that time in Medina based on hadith, and prophet instead of banning it approves it. Would you like to do that to your family members?


BTW, Abu Dawoud himself said that this hadith is "daef", but it's narrated by other scholars(i.g. al-Tabarani, al-Baihaqi, al-Hakem)

Secondly, circumcision isn't a cruel practice in all cases, and according to this hadith, the prophet(pbuh) said: "Don't cut severely", so in case that a girl body doesn't need it at all, so it's forbidden, because it would be considered cutting severely. For boys, there's no harm at all, but even it would be a harm because of that, we can't put a child in danger only to apply a Sunna.


WittyBoy where are you?

Please read this, look what Ali was doing are you not suppose to respect Ali?

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7991&start=260#p128024

Coming back to female circumcision it is cruel in all cases period. No ifs and buts. And prophet said "Do not cut severely", its means what it says, it does not mean forbidden, no more these games. He said cut it but don't cut it too much. But like I said that pathetic practice if been practiced and based on hadiths prophet knew it, he should have stopped it rather than saying, "Do not cut severely",

BTW you did not answer, would you do that to your family members, or have you done it what prophet said even little? I expect an honest answer. If you are not insane person, the answer should be NO.

And you ignored the following, its quite crazy isn't it?

If you marry a virgin woman then stay with her for a week; if you marry a previously married woman then stay with her for three days… (Sahih Muslim, 8.3443, 3444)


FUKING BASTARDS
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Spoiler! :
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:12 am
by WittyBoy
AhmedBahgat wrote:And btw, according to you flawed logic, all the prophets who debated with their people and family members, were not true Muslims, because they were aggressive and even called them names, like Kafiroon, Zalimoon, Fasiqoon, Dalloon, and even sought their destruction.

No no no, The prophets, of course, weren't like you, impolite, they use these words because they are prophets knowing for sure that this people was as they said, but you aren't able to proof yourself right.

WittyBoy wrote:Prophets was inviting unbelievers to obey them and believe in their messages, the situation is different, the verse i mentioned said : "O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger"


But the man made books of hadith were not mentioned in obey Allah and His messenger

What is this answer? :*) :*) I told you that there is two things to obey, prove this idea wrong. :*)

WittyBoy wrote: Did they obligate the verse mentioned or what??


Then tell us

How you stop yourself from Zina and at the same time commit Zina with a prostitute that you love or been married to but divorced her after discovering that she is a prostitute?

Tough question that is,


Yes it's tough question, but why don't you answer mine yet :*). Is the verse i mentioned obligated by other verses??????

WittyBoy wrote:of course it doesn't mean "follow Quran, and follow Quran, and those charged...."


It means to obey Allah and His messenger in same cause and command

Not in bloody opposite commands


What does "the same cause and command" mean? :???: Didn't you say that "Obey Allah and His Messenger" refers to Quran only? Can i understand from this statement that you believe in hadiths which doesn't opposite Quran?? or don't believe on them at all?

WittyBoy wrote:another verse said "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger"


That is right

Allah revealed to us that we have to pray

Muhammed showed us by example how to pray

:ohmy:

So Quran doesn't contain everything??!!!

WittyBoy wrote: this verse presents an indirect obeying, of course it's not Quran.


Hahaha, now we have direct and indirect obeying, I like your humour, boy, you should have a career as a stand up clown

For me, you said nothing, you didn't refute it.


I agree, but at the same time you canot agree that people like me always targeted by most kafirs and mushriks with that stupid question, how we learnt salat then?

However you are asking a similar stupid question, HOW WE BLOODY LEARNT HOW TO MARRY?

Because you claimed that Quran contains everything, so you have to prove that.

but the hadith I showed from Abi Dawoud man made book, was during Muawyah Khilafah, you confused boy, in that hadith Zaid Ibn Thabit told reminded Muawiah with the command of the prophet and they deleted it, that was years after the prophet death and years after the Quran was collected

Who said Muawyah was a caliph in this indecent? :*) Muawyah was one of the companions(from the revelation writers as well), he didn't appear suddenly only when he became a caliph. No one debates like you, you have to know first, make sure your information is right, and then argue.

-> See how some of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking or transferring any hadith by the prophet, this makes sense because the prophet has died, Ibn Umar must have been obeying the prophet of not talking too much about him.

Yes, they were very careful in narrating hadiths, but it doesn't mean they didn't narrate hadiths at all.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:36 pm
by skynightblaze
AhmedBahgat wrote:@ kid sky

Glad that you know yourself well, nothing but a confused kid bound to hell with your two lovers, Ugly and Abu Hurairah



arsehole I aint confused about authenticity of hadiths . I am confident that many hadiths are genuine and they expose islam.I am confused whether my approach would work or not.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:50 pm
by skynightblaze
The Cat wrote:
WittyBoy wrote: He(Almighty) said: "obey Allah, and obey the Messenger", and said too: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger"

When do you ever read: 'Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad''? It isn't written so not even once. It is written ''Obey the messenger'' isn't it?
The Messenger is twofold: the person (in this case Muhammad) AND JIBRIL. So the believers are asked to follow what he inspired...
And NOTHING ELSE. So what isn't directly inspired by Jibril (the message delivered) is forbiden. The Sunna is only that of Allah !
ImageImage
http://tawhiyd.webs.com/sunnainquraan.htm


Exactly! The only problem for you here is that muslims believe that whatever muhammad spoke in the hadiths were inspired to him and were not his own fabrications. This is the umpteenth time I must have said this. Where does the problem arise if muslims follow hadiths which they think contain sayings of muhammad which were inspired to him?

Also I have to repeat myself again here. The sunnah of the past prophets and Sunnah of the Allah can be followed by following Muhammad because muslims believe that Muhammad emulated Allah and previous prophets. Again if we are supposed to follow the past prophets then how is anyone supposed to follow them ? Please explain especially when muslims believe that previous books are corrupt...

The principle of transitivity applies here. A follows B ,B follows C then naturally A follows C.Same is the case here. Muhammad follows previous prophets and sunnah of Allah and hence muslims following muhammad would mean that they would follow the sunnah of Allah and sunnah of the past prophets.!


The Cat wrote:3.80: And he commanded you not that ye should take the angels and the prophets for lords.
Would he command you to disbelieve after ye had surrendered (to Allah) ?

31.6: Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith (Al-Ĥadīthi), and thus divert others from the path of GOD.

9.31: They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks (Imams & mullahs) and the Messiah son of Mary
(as transforming Muhammad into such an Islamic Messiah), when they were bidden to worship only One God.

45.6: In which Hadith (Ĥadīthin) other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?


Following hadiths wouldnt mean diverting from Allahs path unless muslims believe that muhammad was a fraud who deliberately lied in the hadiths so that muslims stray from the path of Allah.

The Cat wrote:
WittyBoy wrote: About forbidding writing hadiths,
The Prophet(pbuh) forbade that not to mix Quran with hadiths but He allowed it later,
Abu Dawood , Book 25, Number 3639:
Abu Dawood, Book 25, Number 3652:
al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 113:
al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 112:

All these hadiths are rotten falsifications since they were interdicted by the four righteous caliphs, and respected for nearly two centuries.
http://www.quranic.org/quran_article/11 ... adiths.htm
There was a remarkable increase in the number of hadiths during the caliphate of Omar. Omar desired that all the pages on which were written the hadiths that were in the hands of the public be brought to him. Then he ordered that they be destroyed, saying: “These are like the Mishnah of the Jewish people” Ibn Sad- Tabakat.

Omar drew a parallel between the Mishnah that had contributed to the corruption of Judaism and the hadiths. Not being satisfied by mere speculation, he had them destroyed. According to our estimate, the hadiths was quite probably more correct compared to those we find today in the books of Bukhari and Muslim. To begin with, the persons who had known the Prophet were still alive and no political dissensions had yet started. Let us ask the defenders of traditional Islam if Omar had not loved and respected the Prophet. If their answer would be affirmative, they should not challenge then the defenders of the self-sufficiency of Islam. Otherwise, they should also level criticism at Omar who had the hadiths burned.
Muhammadans such as WittyBoy are worshiping their own brand of a trinity: The siras, the hadiths and the tafsirs...

16.116: And do not say (...) This is lawful and this is prohibited, in order to forge against Allah the lie...

12.111:
In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is no invented hadith (Ĥadīthāan) but a confirmation
of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.


Witty Boy refuted your argument clearly and yet you are unable to accept that fact. The hadiths were initially forbidden because muhammad thought that they would be confused with quran but later it was allowed.As far as caliphs are concerned See the following sahih bukhari hadith ..

Spoiler! :
82) Narrated Ash-Sha'bi: Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked Ali, 'Have you got any book (which has been revealed to the Prophet apart from the Qur'an)?' 'Ali replied, 'No, except Allah's Book or the power of understanding which has been bestowed (by Allah) upon a Muslim or what is (written) in this sheet of paper (with me).' Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked, 'What is (written) in this sheet of paper?' Ali replied, it deals with The Diyya (compensation (blood money) paid by the killer to the relatives of the victim), the ransom for the releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever). (Book #3, Hadith #111)


Here Ali had no problem with following what was written on a sheet of paper i.e a source other than quran!..


Same can be said about Uthman who naratted a hadith in relation to the verse 2:159 in the quran. Again see the hadith...

Spoiler! :
Hadith - Bukhari 1:161, Narrated Humran

(The slave of 'Uthman) I saw 'Uthman bin 'Affan asking for a tumbler of water (and when it was brought) he poured water over his hands and washed them thrice and then put his right hand in the water container and rinsed his mouth, washed his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out. Then he washed his face and forearms up to the elbows thrice, passed his wet hands over his head and washed his feet up to the ankles thrice. Then he said, "Allah's Apostle said 'If anyone Performs ablution like that of mine and offers a two-rak'at prayer during which he does not think of anything else (not related to the present prayer) then his past sins will be forgiven.' " After performing the ablution 'Uthman said, "I am going to tell you a Hadith which I would not have told you, had I not been compelled by a certain Holy Verse (the sub narrator 'Urwa said: This verse is: 'Verily, those who conceal the clear signs and the guidance which we have sent down...)' (2:159). I heard the Prophet saying, 'If a man performs ablution perfectly and then offers the compulsory congregational prayer, Allah will forgive his sins committed between that (prayer) and the (next) prayer till he offers it.'
"


Uthman had no problem narrating the hadiths..

So the point is here we have sahih hadiths and sunan Abu dawud hadiths confirming that prohibition of writing hadiths was abrogated later .

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:15 pm
by skynightblaze
@The Cat

In my previous debate I accepted your quote where muhammad said that nothing other than the quran should be written. I didnt know that this was abrogated .I came to know after reading WittyBoy's post however my stance is the same i.e hadiths cant be taken as source of guidance but as a source on information (because still some hadiths contradict the quran). There is no escaping from the hadiths that show muhammmad in negative light.Many of them confirm quran and also can be proven authentic on the virtue of logic.

Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:16 pm
by expozIslam
Iffo,
I think you should put the last image in a spoiler with a proper subject so that only those who want and can see the atrocity do so.
Code: Select all
[spoiler][/spoiler]