Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

WittyBoy wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:How is leaving islam a treason exactly ?
Treason is an act of disloyalty or betrayal of trust to your own government.**

And i showed how Islam is similar to country, government,... and it aims to make the Islamic community very coherent like as one unit.
That's precisely why Islam needs to be banned from all secular countries and it's precisely why Muslims agitate every where they go and there is always fighting
WittyBoy wrote:
Do you believe that an individual is free to chose whichever religion he wants?
Of course, yes. But before one becomes a Muslim, he knows this rule and accepts it, and who is already Muslim, he hasn't to pronounce his conversion for the reason i mentioned above.
This is a blatant hiding of the truth and actual, downright cheating. But that's no surprise. It is in the very core nature of the Muslim to cheat for Islam. You say to Muslims they shouldn't build a mosque on the 911 site and they scream for their rights and their religious freedom, but try to bring one bible, just one into Saudi Arabia and it gets confiscated at the airport. Someone actually tears one page from a Quran and there is violent protests all over the world, but Muslims can burn down churches left and right and not a peep is to be heard from Muslims. Liars, cheaters and outright hypocrites, and it gets proven every single day all over the world.

This is the true nature of the Muslim. They are unashamed cheaters and it's at the very core of their ideology. This is why the rest of the world hates them so much.
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byteresistor
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by byteresistor »

WittyBoy wrote:Of course, yes. But before one becomes a Muslim, he knows this rule and accepts it, and who is already Muslim, he hasn't to pronounce his conversion for the reason i mentioned above.
Tell me, how do babies make this decision?

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by WittyBoy »

@ Bin Lyin
- So when one no longer believes in Islam, they are automatically attacking Islam and helping their enemies??
Pronouncing disloyalty between Muslims is considered a tumult (according to Bible too as you'll see) which is worse than what you mentioned.
- Would it be fair for other religions to kills their believers if they convert to Islam, just like Islam calls for their believers to be killed if they convert to another religion??
For me as a Muslim believes that Islam is the only true religion, I don't want who converts from the false religion to the true one to be killed.
- In Christianity??? Where??
Aren't you a christian? How do you know Islam better than your religion?

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

[Deuteronomy: 13]


According to Bible, if someone said to you: "Let's worship other gods", don't follow him, neither hear him, neither pity him, neither conceal him, BUT KILL him, because he wanted to thrust you away from God.
So you are not allowed to speak the truth?? You have to hide the truth?? So Islam preserves itself by hiding the truth??
Can you say "USA shouldn't punish the American traitor because he originally haven't chosen to be American and he doesn't like it" ? If he don't like it, he can go away and don't live in it, but he can't be as a corrupted cell harms the country. I said the same to byteresistor.
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sum
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by sum »

Hello WittyBoy

The discussion is moving away from the purpose of this thread.

Do you believe that Muhammad stoned and ordered stoning?

sum

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by WittyBoy »

That's exactly the purpose of this thread. iffo asked about killing for leaving Islam. You can keep your questions after finishing the original discussion.
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by iffo »

Mr WittyBoy

A muslim person one day decides to leave Islam because he is not convinced that Muhammad was prophet is not a treason.
He is doing nothing he just don't believe in his heart that Muhammad was prophet. Why do you want to kill that person? Do you honestly believe this is fair?

If lets suppose your daughter or mother decides to leave Islam would you support that we should chop their heads of, would you?

Is this the religion you are proud off?

What about some one like Mother Thersa lets suppose she is muslim helped humanity all life decides to leave Islam, would it be fair to chop her head off as well?

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by WittyBoy »

@ iffo

Nobody can charge you for what is in your heart, but to be among a group of people and pronounce your disloyalty to them causing tumult among them, It's a treason. Here's an example of how such a member can affect the group:

If they had come out with you, they would not have added to your (strength) but only (made for) disorder, hurrying to and fro in your midst and sowing sedition among you, and there would have been some among you who would have listened to them. But Allah knoweth well those who do wrong. [9:47]
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by iffo »

WittyBoy wrote:@ iffo

Nobody can charge you for what is in your heart, but to be among a group of people and pronounce your disloyalty to them causing tumult among them, It's a treason. Here's an example of how such a member can affect the group:

If they had come out with you, they would not have added to your (strength) but only (made for) disorder, hurrying to and fro in your midst and sowing sedition among you, and there would have been some among you who would have listened to them. But Allah knoweth well those who do wrong. [9:47]

By using the word heart I did not mean that the person is keeping it secret and not telling others that he is not muslim anymore. So you saying if muslim declares he is non-muslim he should be killed correct?. BTW quran not even once mentions that person should be killed.

What about my question, would you support killing if your daughter or mothers decides to leave Islam?

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by WittyBoy »

iffo wrote:So you saying if muslim declares he is non-muslim he should be killed correct?
If he is among Muslims(Muslim majority country), then yes, for the reasons mentioned.
What about my question, would you support killing if your daughter or mothers decides to leave Islam?
May Allah protect them, I don't like so, but Allah's orders must be fulfilled. We worship Him, If you don't like worshiping him, no we are proud of that.
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

WittyBoy wrote:@ Bin Lyin
- So when one no longer believes in Islam, they are automatically attacking Islam and helping their enemies??
Pronouncing disloyalty between Muslims is considered a tumult (according to Bible too as you'll see) which is worse than what you mentioned.
You said "Christianity", so be careful what you quote.
WittyBoy wrote:
- Would it be fair for other religions to kills their believers if they convert to Islam, just like Islam calls for their believers to be killed if they convert to another religion??
For me as a Muslim believes that Islam is the only true religion, I don't want who converts from the false religion to the true one to be killed.
And THAT'S what it ALL comes down to with Muslims. This is the very core of the problem. So all of that false talk that Muslims do about "dialogue" and "mutual understanding" are complete nonsense and downright dishonest ploys.

WittyBoy wrote:
- In Christianity??? Where??
Aren't you a christian? How do you know Islam better than your religion?
I don't remember the New Testament calling for anything like this, and that is what "Christianity" is based on.
WittyBoy wrote: 6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
[Deuteronomy: 13]
Why would you call this Christianity rather than Judaism?
WittyBoy wrote: According to Bible, if someone said to you: "Let's worship other gods", don't follow him, neither hear him, neither pity him, neither conceal him, BUT KILL him, because he wanted to thrust you away from God.
See above.
WittyBoy wrote:
So you are not allowed to speak the truth?? You have to hide the truth?? So Islam preserves itself by hiding the truth??
Can you say "USA shouldn't punish the American traitor because he originally haven't chosen to be American and he doesn't like it" ?
There's no hiding of the truth in that. What is the matter with your sense of reasoning?? What is wrong with you?
WittyBoy wrote: If he don't like it, he can go away and don't live in it, but he can't be as a corrupted cell harms the country. I said the same to byteresistor.
I could say the same thing to a lot of Muslims living a hypocritical life in the secular west. :lol:
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by iffo »

WittyBoy wrote:
iffo wrote:So you saying if muslim declares he is non-muslim he should be killed correct?
If he is among Muslims(Muslim majority country), then yes, for the reasons mentioned.
What about my question, would you support killing if your daughter or mothers decides to leave Islam?
May Allah protect them, I don't like so, but Allah's orders must be fulfilled. We worship Him, If you don't like worshiping him, no we are proud of that.
I am sure you know it is not fair to kill person for leaving Islam but you have to defend it because its mentioned in the hadith. One wonders despite being educated if you know the difference between right and wrong. Anyway congratulation not islam hater but you yourself now have given the first stab to your own religion and by the time this thread will end you will completely destroy it.

lets move on. what you think about prophet of god, mercy to mankind, example to the whole world ... torturing people.
They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died. (Sahih Muslim 4131 ).

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

It's time you met a real Muslim IFFO.
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skynightblaze
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by skynightblaze »

WittyBoy wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:How is leaving islam a treason exactly ?
Treason is an act of disloyalty or betrayal of trust to your own government.**
And i showed how Islam is similar to country, government,... and it aims to make the Islamic community very coherent like as one unit.
This is the precise reason why islam is an intolerant religion which should be destroyed as it seeks to snatch freedom of others and thanks for proving it.

First of all islam is not a government.

Secondly I fail to see how anyone leaving islam makes the system as incoherent.

thirdly I fail to see how this so called incoherence leads to treason.

You are simply out of your mind!

WittyBoy wrote:
Skynightblaze wrote:Do you believe that an individual is free to chose whichever religion he wants?
Of course, yes. But before one becomes a Muslim, he knows this rule and accepts it, and who is already Muslim, he hasn't to pronounce his conversion for the reason i mentioned above.
what if a person is fooled into believing islam but later realizes that islam was not the right choice for him? Why should a harmless person be killed?

You are defending a crime here. What is wrong with you ? You are brainwashed to the extent that you even support a crime because of muhammad . Muhammad was a criminal dear friend and you are following no GOd but a disgusting man to have ever lived on earth .You are simply following a criminal and have been fooled .

Always remember only those who lack merits demand respect and need to resort to violence and other acts to gain it just like muhammad .Those with merit automatically command respect. If you observe life around yourself you will always see what I say is the truth.

A god is expected to bring people to him with his words and not by violence otherwise he simply ceases to be a god considering that he is a symbol of goodness.

Islam is making you commit a crime and yet you dont have the guts to reject it for what it orders.There is still time Witty Boy. We arent your enemies as you might think. People want you to see how dangerous islam is for mankind. You are defending islam here for the sake of defending. Your argument is really no good and its not your fault because its not possible to defend the impossible.I know you are smart enough to understand what I am saying..
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by piscohot »

WittyBoy wrote:
piscohot wrote:I am asking would you agree if another religion said to KILL MUSLIMS who were converts from that religion.
For me as a Muslim believes that Islam is the only true religion, I don't want who converts from the false religion to the true one to be killed.
You don't get to decide for others which is the true religion for them.

You don't think it is right for any religion to kill its followers who have converted to Islam BUT you have no problem with Islam killing apostates.

You are a piece of sh*t.
WittyBoy wrote:
what do you mean by: 'you have not to pronounce that'?
As I said, because Islam aims to make a coherent community, you have not to pronounce your conversion from Islam between Muslims, you can conceal that or leave them.

And an advocate of hypocrisy.
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by sword_of_truth »

What a silly line of argument.

Ignoring the obvious tu quoque, treason means helping the enemy actually kill your people.

We also have this thing called freedom of religion and freedom of speech. I.e. in the United States, you can insult the president as much as you please, and you can criticize and denounce the government as much as you please. You can completely disagree with, condemn, criticize, not believe in it, and you will not get in any trouble at all.

That's a COMPLETELY different thing from helping the enemy out in a actual war.

Killing ex-muslims just for leaving Islam is absolutely, 100% equivalent to murdering someone in cold blood for NO REASON. Advocates of this death penalty are absolutely as bad or worse than Nazis. They are murder-advocates. Plain and simple. No ifs ands or buts.
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by sword_of_truth »

iffo wrote:So you saying if muslim declares he is non-muslim he should be killed correct?


If he is among Muslims(Muslim majority country), then yes, for the reasons mentioned.

What about my question, would you support killing if your daughter or mothers decides to leave Islam?


May Allah protect them, I don't like so, but Allah's orders must be fulfilled. We worship Him, If you don't like worshiping him, no we are proud of that.
Were it not for Islam, we could easily label WittyBoy a psychopath. Islam has made psychotic viewpoints such as murdering your own mothers and daughters for no reason normal.

You heard me right. Murdering your mothers and daughters for NO REASON. Because leaving Islam sure as hell is not a reason.

What a truly sick and twisted religion.
"...if you want my personal preference say I found out that my wife was cheating with me flogging would be too good a punishment."

--fudgy

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by piscohot »

iffo wrote:lets move on. what you think about prophet of god, mercy to mankind, example to the whole world ... torturing people.
They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died. (Sahih Muslim 4131 ).
Why not, iffo?

Muhammad certainly was not above torturing Safiya's husband to make him reveal the whereabouts of the treasures.
The oldest extant biography of Muhammad is called the "Sirat Rasul Allah" ? "Life of the Prophet of Allah". This book was written by Ibn Ishaq, a devout Muslim scholar, and later revised by his disciple Ibn Hisham. It was written before any of the major works of Hadith. It is considered the most authentic biography of Muhammad. It was translated into English by A. Guillaume as "The Life of Muhammad". On page 515, the ancient muslim scholars relate to us what happened Kinana Al Rabi, Safiyaah?s husband:


"Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought"), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" He said "Yes". The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has." So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud."
Frankly, iffo, you should have ran as far away from Islam as you can when you read in the quran that many things (which are restrictions imposed on believers) are possible ONLY for Muhammad.
Last edited by piscohot on Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by yeezevee »

skynightblaze wrote:
WittyBoy wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:How is leaving islam a treason exactly ?
Treason is an act of disloyalty or betrayal of trust to your own government.**
And i showed how Islam is similar to country, government,... and it aims to make the Islamic community very coherent like as one unit.
This is the precise reason why islam is an intolerant religion which should be destroyed as it seeks to snatch freedom of others and thanks for proving it.

First of all islam is not a government.

Secondly I fail to see how anyone leaving islam makes the system as incoherent.

thirdly I fail to see how this so called incoherence leads to treason.

You are simply out of your mind!

WittyBoy wrote:
Skynightblaze wrote:Do you believe that an individual is free to chose whichever religion he wants?
Of course, yes. But before one becomes a Muslim, he knows this rule and accepts it, and who is already Muslim, he hasn't to pronounce his conversion for the reason i mentioned above.
what if a person is fooled into believing islam but later realizes that islam was not the right choice for him? Why should a harmless person be killed?

You are defending a crime here. What is wrong with you ? You are brainwashed to the extent that you even support a crime because of muhammad . Muhammad was a criminal dear friend and you are following no GOd but a disgusting man to have ever lived on earth .You are simply following a criminal and have been fooled .

Always remember only those who lack merits demand respect and need to resort to violence and other acts to gain it just like muhammad .Those with merit automatically command respect. If you observe life around yourself you will always see what I say is the truth.

A god is expected to bring people to him with his words and not by violence otherwise he simply ceases to be a god considering that he is a symbol of goodness.

Islam is making you commit a crime and yet you dont have the guts to reject it for what it orders.There is still time Witty Boy. We arent your enemies as you might think. People want you to see how dangerous islam is for mankind. You are defending islam here for the sake of defending. Your argument is really no good and its not your fault because its not possible to defend the impossible.I know you are smart enough to understand what I am saying..
WittyBoy logic is same as that of peaceful Islamic Indian preacher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xP ... 1&index=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


that was 20 years back and this was few months back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coux2mS4tbg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by WittyBoy »

I don't remember the New Testament calling for anything like this, and that is what "Christianity" is based on.
Really?? So can we consider the old testament nonsense and you don't believe in it?
There's no hiding of the truth in that.
which truth?! you mean the other religions??
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Re: Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

Post by iffo »

WittyBoy wrote:
I don't remember the New Testament calling for anything like this, and that is what "Christianity" is based on.
Really?? So can we consider the old testament nonsense and you don't believe in it?
There's no hiding of the truth in that.
which truth?! you mean the other religions??
Mr WittyBoy who cares about Old/New testament. This is mostly atheists site. There is lot of garbage in Old/New testament you want to compare yourself to garbage and feel good about yourself when you are remotely better or saying well bible say the samething.
Can't you have our own senses to tell you What is wrong is wrong.

Anyway forget it, please explain me the following torture
They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died. (Sahih Muslim 4131 ).

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