Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
User avatar
Muhammad bin Lyin
Posts: 5859
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:19 pm
Location: A Mosque on Uranus

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Yohan wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:Good post The Cat, that is what I am talking about for the last 10 years
Cheers
Desperate attempts by desperate Muslims to cleanse Islam by debunking the Hadiths are quite hilarious. Muslims have lived by Hadiths ever since the creation Islam, but now they say they had been led wrong, or duped all these centuries. Do they forget that only half the 'garbage' in Islam resides in Hadiths? The rest is in Koran itself. So what are these desperate Muslims going to do about Koran?
Look who is talking

Have I not slam dunked you a couple of days ago, freak?

Well, it is not me who slam dunked you, it is your crap man made rubbish of hadith that you worship which slam dunked an ignornat dump pum like you

You are dismissed
Why do you even post here you arsshole?? Leave. If you dismiss anybody in a forum, then you need to be banned as a troll. It's that simple. Now take a hike once and for all or answer the issues. It's that simple, arsshole. If you don't leave, I'm going to keep posting pictures of your kid. It's no more ignorant nor inappropriate as your dismissals on a discussion forum. I'm dead serious. Either you address what the reader is saying, or admit that you don't have an answer if you don't, or stare at your son's picture with a beard and turban on every single thread you participate on. It's that simple. People have had it with you clear ignorance. It's time for you to go.
orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by yeezevee »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
Yohan wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:Good post The Cat, that is what I am talking about for the last 10 years
Cheers
..........................................

Why do you even post here you arsshole?? Leave.
If you dismiss anybody in a forum, then you need to be banned as a troll.......It's that simple. People have had it with you clear ignorance. It's time for you to go.
Oh Common "Muhammad bin Lyin", If FFI guys can not answer silly Koranic rubbish of robots like AhmedBahgat, then it is as good as having no ffi.. What is also important here is answering "The Cat"

User avatar
AhmedBahgat
Posts: 3094
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:38 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

keep it itchy, bin fagin

User avatar
Muhammad bin Lyin
Posts: 5859
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:19 pm
Location: A Mosque on Uranus

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

AhmedBahgat wrote:keep it itchy, bin fagin
Do you want to see that picture again?? Your dismissals amount to nothing but clear trolling. Either you discuss the issue, which is what a "discussion" forum is for, or you remain silent. It's that simple. That's how a discussion board works, and it's time you start acknowledging that.
orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night

User avatar
Centaur
Posts: 2149
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:14 pm

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by Centaur »

lie detector
Image

Alham Dulillah... thats amazing....
Click to win $50,0000 :rock:

only 2% of KKK are radical, the rest are peaceful law abiding moderates
Islamic Football Team: Striker:Extremist; Defender: Moderate One; Goallie :Leftist

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by yeezevee »

AhmedBahgat wrote:keep it itchy, bin fagin
AhmedBahgat, dear Ahmed you are such a smart guy, you waste your time quite often with silly posts. May be that is your recreational time, may be you enjoy writing silly posts. Unfortunately you wrapped your brain with Quran so much that too with a closed mind, it is hard for you to get over it and consider Quran as man made silly book. In fact it is silliest and worst of all religious books.. lol..

Any ways., Read Quran carefully from your own translation and read articles like "Islam & How it programs The Mental Immune System" . It is similar to your computer programming. Read that good article in the ffi front page http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/op ... ne-system/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with best wishes
yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

iffo
Posts: 4687
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by iffo »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
iffo wrote:Hadiths are garbage. I say that on muslims face whether they like it or not.... If they get pissed even better I enjoy that. Its give me the opportunity to quote some ugly hadiths that they never heard before and they get shocked and seeing me destroying their religion right in front of their eyes unless the listen to me and reject what I tell them to.

I am not going to follow them, and God can not blame me as he never said we need to follow them.
So Iffo, please answer the following questions. BagHat is inherently dishonest and avoids these questions like the plague. That is because he is a liar, plain and simple, and he even knows how to lie to himself and he does it all of the time.

1) Do you pray?
2) How do you know how to pray?
3) How often do you pray?
4) Why do you pray that amount of times?
5) Did Muhammad make the night journey??
6) Did Moses continually send him back to God asking that the prayer frequency be lowered as if Moses knew what the people could bear better than Allah??
7) Did Muhammad say he made the night journey on a white winged horse at all?
8) Did he claim he was the only prophet to make it to the 7th heaven where Allah is?
9) If this story is nonsense like the hadiths in general, then should Israel be allowed to rebuild their temple, being that Muhammad never launched his night journey from there as claimed and therefore the land has no special significance to Muslims?
I will get back on that

User avatar
The Cat
Posts: 2055
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by The Cat »

Hadiths, its history says it all... (***)

1. Under Muhammad
1. ---No contemporary hadiths from the time of Muhammad who ordered them not to be written down, but could only be transmitted orally. Ibn Saeed Al-Khudry reported that the messenger of God had said, "-Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it.-" The following historical incident happened about 30 years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad and shows that the Prophet never canceled his order not to write but the Quran.

2. Under the four righteous caliphs
2. ---No hadiths up to the time of Umar who destroyed all existing hadiths on the ground that they were ''like the Mishnah of the Jewish people''. He admonished Abu Hurairah for attempting to do so and for stealing: ''You're an enemy of Allah and of His Book'', emphasized by Aischa: ''you write ahadith of the Prophet we never heard of...'' And Ali Ibn Abu Talib, "I urge all those who have writings taken from the messenger of God to go home and erase it. The people before you were annihilated because they followed the Hadiths of their scholars and left the book of their Lord." (Sunan Al-Daramy).

In "Ulum Al-Hadith" by Ibn Al-Salah, reports a hadith by Abu Huraira in which he stated that the messenger of God came out to us while we were writing his hadiths and said; "What are you writing?" We said, "Hadiths that we hear from you, messenger of God." He said, "A book other than the book of God ?!" We said, "Should we talk about you?" He said, Talk about me, that would be fine, but those who will lie will go to Hell. Abu Huraira said, we collected what we wrote of Hadiths and burned them in fire.

3. Muawiya
3. ---The hadiths allegedly start with Muawiya who was in need of corroborations against Ali and the family of the Prophet, for he wasn't. He named Huraira as governor of Medina who helped him against Ali. From then on, the hadiths were made against Ali's partisans and family members... It's from this period that, according to Ibn Hanbal, Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Muawiya (some 30 years after the Prophet's death), and told him a story about the Prophet. Muawiya liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said: "the messenger of God ordered us NEVER to write anything of his hadith."

4. Ibn Abdul-Aziz (some 80 years after Muhammad)
4. ---The hadiths received a first imprimatur from Omar ibn Adbul-Aziz (682-720) and al-Zuhri began a compilation. One of his pupil being Ibn Ishaq. A second civil war happened soon after driving Ibn Abbas and the Abbasid dynasty. He was in urge to be related with Muhammad and that came throught the hadiths around al-Muttalib in Mecca. Ibn Greeg, Malik Ibn Anas, Mohammed Ibn Is'haq. Malik Ibn Anas collected about 500 hadiths in his famous book, "Al-Muwattaa." After that they spread like wild fire from many story-tellers for political, religious or ideological motivations

5. Under the Mutazilites
5. ---The Mutazilites go back to the former interdiction over all hadiths. The Koran was created they hold, which upset many. They, the Shi'ites and Abu Hanifa never recognized Huraira as a reliable source.

6. Ibn Idrīs al-Shafiʿī (767-820)
6. ---Not a hadith collector, yet the founder of the Islamic Jurisprudence.
viewtopic.php?p=98118#p98118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
According to the ancient schools, traditions from the Prophet as such do not as yet possess an overriding authority; only Shafi'i, obviously under the influence of the pressure group of traditionists, upholds consistently the doctrine that when there exists a tradition from the Prophet, no other argument is valid.... and it is clear that this doctrine was a startling innovation in his time. It is certain, too, that the great mass of legal traditions which invoke the authority of the Prophet, originated in the time of Shafi'i and later....

Even the general reference to Companions (or to Successors), a stage which preceded the technical and formal reference to individual traditions from the Prophet, date only from about the year A.H. 100. We must therefore abandon the gratuitous assumptions that there existed originally an authentic core of information going back to the time of the Prophet.... The important point is that to a much higher degree than hitherto suspected, seemingly historical information on the Prophet is only the background for legal doctrines and therefore devoid of independent value. For instance, the Medinese regarded the marriage concluded by a pilgrim as invalid, the Meccans and the Iraqians regarded it as valid. The Medinese projected their doctrine back to Ibn 'Umar and, with spurious circum­stantial details, to 'Umar himself. -Joseph Schacht.
http://www.answering-islam.net/Books/Sc ... uation.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

7. Ibn Hanbal (786-863)
7. ---In reaction to the Mutazilites (reason over blind faith), Ibn Hanbal declared that not only the Koran is the timeless words of Allah but that the Hadiths are from the same divine inspiration. He rejected all former Hanafi's and Shia's hadiths, in order to legitimate the Abbasid dynasty. Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, collected about 40,000 hadiths, in his famous "Musnad" rejecting about 700,000 hadiths (99%). He had 3848 hadiths from Huraira!

8. Bukhari (810-870)
8. ---Bukhari collected about 600,000 hadiths and accepted 7275 hadiths and considered 592,725 hadiths to be fabrications, that is almost 99% of what he collected. He's the 1st of the six 'collectors of 'Sahih hadiths'.

9. 'Shahih' Muslim (818-875)
9. ---Sahih Muslim collected 300,000 hadiths to keep about 4,000. Many of his narrators aren't quoted by Bukhari and many of his own's aren't quoted by Bukhari, whom he taxed of plagiarism.

(***)
This historical survey entirely depends upon a Muhammad being born in 570, ie. The Year of the Elephant, that's according to the hadiths.
It's from this corner stone datation that the prophet moved to Medina in 622 (1 AH), fought his battles and died ten years later, in 632.
But the whole hadith built-up crumbles down as the Year of the Elephant is now, without the shadow of a doubt, dated 552AD... NOT 570.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5518" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On and on a new religion came out: Muhammadanism. It became distantly related to Koran since the Hadiths were 'able' to explain it!

Still the hadiths are reliable because... the hadiths say so... as per skynightblaze! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

User avatar
Muhammad bin Lyin
Posts: 5859
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:19 pm
Location: A Mosque on Uranus

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

The Quran mentions the night journey as if it's listeners were already familiar with it, meaning that whole story was INDEED uttered by Muhammad and therefore is probably quite reliable. And CAT, why would you care whether the hadiths are reliable or not?? I think that people should find that to be quite odd.
orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by yeezevee »

The Cat wrote:Hadiths, its history says it all... (***)
Spoiler! :
1. Under Muhammad
1. ---No contemporary hadiths from the time of Muhammad who ordered them not to be written down, but could only be transmitted orally. Ibn Saeed Al-Khudry reported that the messenger of God had said, "-Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it.-" The following historical incident happened about 30 years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad and shows that the Prophet never canceled his order not to write but the Quran.

2. Under the four righteous caliphs
2. ---No hadiths up to the time of Umar who destroyed all existing hadiths on the ground that they were ''like the Mishnah of the Jewish people''. He admonished Abu Hurairah for attempting to do so and for stealing: ''You're an enemy of Allah and of His Book'', emphasized by Aischa: ''you write ahadith of the Prophet we never heard of...'' And Ali Ibn Abu Talib, "I urge all those who have writings taken from the messenger of God to go home and erase it. The people before you were annihilated because they followed the Hadiths of their scholars and left the book of their Lord." (Sunan Al-Daramy).

In "Ulum Al-Hadith" by Ibn Al-Salah, reports a hadith by Abu Huraira in which he stated that the messenger of God came out to us while we were writing his hadiths and said; "What are you writing?" We said, "Hadiths that we hear from you, messenger of God." He said, "A book other than the book of God ?!" We said, "Should we talk about you?" He said, Talk about me, that would be fine, but those who will lie will go to Hell. Abu Huraira said, we collected what we wrote of Hadiths and burned them in fire.

3. Muawiya
3. ---The hadiths allegedly start with Muawiya who was in need of corroborations against Ali and the family of the Prophet, for he wasn't. He named Huraira as governor of Medina who helped him against Ali. From then on, the hadiths were made against Ali's partisans and family members... It's from this period that, according to Ibn Hanbal, Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Muawiya (some 30 years after the Prophet's death), and told him a story about the Prophet. Muawiya liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said: "the messenger of God ordered us NEVER to write anything of his hadith."

4. Ibn Abdul-Aziz (some 80 years after Muhammad)
4. ---The hadiths received a first imprimatur from Omar ibn Adbul-Aziz (682-720) and al-Zuhri began a compilation. One of his pupil being Ibn Ishaq. A second civil war happened soon after driving Ibn Abbas and the Abbasid dynasty. He was in urge to be related with Muhammad and that came throught the hadiths around al-Muttalib in Mecca. Ibn Greeg, Malik Ibn Anas, Mohammed Ibn Is'haq. Malik Ibn Anas collected about 500 hadiths in his famous book, "Al-Muwattaa." After that they spread like wild fire from many story-tellers for political, religious or ideological motivations

5. Under the Mutazilites
5. ---The Mutazilites go back to the former interdiction over all hadiths. The Koran was created they hold, which upset many. They, the Shi'ites and Abu Hanifa never recognized Huraira as a reliable source.

6. Ibn Idrīs al-Shafiʿī (767-820)
6. ---Not a hadith collector, yet the founder of the Islamic Jurisprudence.
viewtopic.php?p=98118#p98118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
According to the ancient schools, traditions from the Prophet as such do not as yet possess an overriding authority; only Shafi'i, obviously under the influence of the pressure group of traditionists, upholds consistently the doctrine that when there exists a tradition from the Prophet, no other argument is valid.... and it is clear that this doctrine was a startling innovation in his time. It is certain, too, that the great mass of legal traditions which invoke the authority of the Prophet, originated in the time of Shafi'i and later....

Even the general reference to Companions (or to Successors), a stage which preceded the technical and formal reference to individual traditions from the Prophet, date only from about the year A.H. 100. We must therefore abandon the gratuitous assumptions that there existed originally an authentic core of information going back to the time of the Prophet.... The important point is that to a much higher degree than hitherto suspected, seemingly historical information on the Prophet is only the background for legal doctrines and therefore devoid of independent value. For instance, the Medinese regarded the marriage concluded by a pilgrim as invalid, the Meccans and the Iraqians regarded it as valid. The Medinese projected their doctrine back to Ibn 'Umar and, with spurious circum­stantial details, to 'Umar himself. -Joseph Schacht.
http://www.answering-islam.net/Books/Sc ... uation.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

7. Ibn Hanbal (786-863)
7. ---In reaction to the Mutazilites (reason over blind faith), Ibn Hanbal declared that not only the Koran is the timeless words of Allah but that the Hadiths are from the same divine inspiration. He rejected all former Hanafi's and Shia's hadiths, in order to legitimate the Abbasid dynasty. Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, collected about 40,000 hadiths, in his famous "Musnad" rejecting about 700,000 hadiths (99%). He had 3848 hadiths from Huraira!

8. Bukhari (810-870)
8. ---Bukhari collected about 600,000 hadiths and accepted 7275 hadiths and considered 592,725 hadiths to be fabrications, that is almost 99% of what he collected. He's the 1st of the six 'collectors of 'Sahih hadiths'.

9. 'Shahih' Muslim (818-875)
9. ---Sahih Muslim collected 300,000 hadiths to keep about 4,000. Many of his narrators aren't quoted by Bukhari and many of his own's aren't quoted by Bukhari, whom he taxed of plagiarism.

(***)
This historical survey entirely depends upon a Muhammad being born in 570, ie. The Year of the Elephant, that's according to the hadiths.
It's from this corner stone datation that the prophet moved to Medina in 622 (1 AH), fought his battles and died ten years later, in 632.
But the whole hadith built-up crumbles down as the Year of the Elephant is now, without the shadow of a doubt, dated 552AD... NOT 570.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5518" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On and on a new religion came out: Muhammadanism. It became distantly related to Koran since the Hadiths were 'able' to explain it!
Still the hadiths are reliable because... the hadiths say so... as per skynightblaze! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
skynightblaze wrote:
Yeezevee wrote:A very simple question to ask The Cat in the similar lines of his question is.,

"Forget Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim)., Is Quran Reliable
:lol:
well Cat laughs and skynightblaze laughs... That is all in good spirit..

User avatar
skynightblaze
Posts: 3920
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by skynightblaze »

The Cat wrote:Still the hadiths are reliable because... the hadiths say so... as per skynightblaze! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Show me where I said sahih hadiths are reliable because they say so? I defended hadiths using hadiths only once and that too when you and bahgat came with the accusation that hadiths themselves tell us that anything other than the quran should be deleted. I already refuted that by saying that muhammad telling no to hadiths doesnt mean they are lies. It only means that muhammad didnt want anyone to take them as guidance . Many of the things from the hadit hs can be proven as true and many hadiths help us in explaining the quran.This establishes the fact that hadiths arent completely useless. It contains some useful information despite muhammad wanting no hadiths. Obviously muhammad wasnt a smart man and that is evident from his ramblings in the quran. He was a troll who claimed to explain everything but hardly explained anything so muhammad saying no to hadiths doesnt prove that the hadiths are complete lies!

Well if you accuse hadiths using a hadith then we also need to see what the same hadith say about collection of hadiths.I quoted hadiths in response to Bahgat to show as to why the companions of muhammad decided to narrate the hadiths.

Its like when you accuse quran of any error the person who believes in quran has the full liberty to use the quran for its defense. I am not a firm believer in hadith but I see that people like you and bahgat want to hide the shameful deeds of muhammad and that’s why I am defending the hadiths here.I don’t look at them as some source of divine texts but they provide insights into the character of muhammad whom billions of muslims believe in .

AS far proving authenticity of hadiths is concerned I can use logic and also the quran to validate the hadi ths. I already said that many hadiths are confirmed by quran and also the sira so we can see that the hadith still can be used as source of information if not guidance..Your argument is all the hadiths are unreliable which is clearly false.I am not saying here all the hadiths are reliable.My argument is not all the hadiths are unreliable.

Btw “The cat” I hope you laugh more at your own logic …Here is what you previously wrote..
The Cat wrote: In the Sahih Hadiths we only find 142 ahadiths from Abu Bakr, 146 from Uthman, 537 from Umar, 536 from Ali, who were with Muhammad from the first BUT... 2210 ahadiths from Aischa's twelve years, AND... 5374 from Huraira (who lived less than two years with him, not even three as per B.4.789)
To debunk Abu Huraira you brought up quotes from Umar,Uthman and Ali and Aisha so a sane person would believe that you consider them as reliable but together these 4 people narrated 3429(146+ 536 + 537 + 2210) hadiths and yet you make statements like all the hadiths are crap .

In short Umar,Uthman,Aisha and Ali are reliable only when they speak against Abu huraira but not otherwise.

More ever your arguments against Abu huraira which you borrowed from Shias have been debunked already in the link I gave. What you do is merely pick on one or two incidences to make accusations against Abu huraira. Abu Huraira wasnt any God to be perfect and you also fail to understand that had the accusations that you made against Abu Huraira true then none would have trusted him.He would have been killed by muhammad himself as per 5:33 . The link I gave provides evidence that Abu Huraira was even trusted by grandsons of Umar so it can be established that whatever accusations Umar made against Huraira were unproven .

Also I would like to know the source of your arguments which you make against Abu Huraira. I have a guess that they are the shia ones. You have to first establish authenticity of sources that you use against Abu Huraira .
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

User avatar
AhmedBahgat
Posts: 3094
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:38 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

See kid sky, if you know Arabic, I would have let such man made books to slam dunk you thousands of times, I am sure that you do not know that I have all their man made books on my laptop, over 300 man made books of them including all what they call science, yes, science my arse. Now, for me to expose the shifty conman Abu Hurairah, it needs a lot of work from my side which I hardly have as I have to finish the second draft of my Quran translation in 5 days exatly, and I still have 34 suras to do, massive work indeed. But I decided to take it bit by bit and show an ignorant like you, how such man made books of crap expose Abu Hurairah himself as one of the most dangerous enemy within Islam.

Keep an eye on this thread, kid

User avatar
skynightblaze
Posts: 3920
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by skynightblaze »

AhmedBahgat wrote:See kid sky, if you know Arabic, I would have let such man made books to slam dunk you thousands of times, I am sure that you do not know that I have all their man made books on my laptop, over 300 man made books of them including all what they call science, yes, science my arse. Now, for me to expose the shifty conman Abu Hurairah, it needs a lot of work from my side which I hardly have as I have to finish the second draft of my Quran translation in 5 days exatly, and I still have 34 suras to do, massive work indeed. But I decided to take it bit by bit and show an ignorant like you, how such man made books of crap expose Abu Hurairah himself as one of the most dangerous enemy within Islam.

Keep an eye on this thread, kid
Neither you or not the Cat has understood what I have written. I am not saying Abu Huraira is any God. He can go wrong. My point is not all the hadiths are lies . Many of them can be proven true so they cant be discarded completely. I already accepted that they cant be taken as source of guidance.The arguments put by The CAt have been debunked already and now if you can prove Abu Huraira as unreliable then fine! What about the others like Aisha,Umar,Uthman and ali who also narrated the hadiths?

Lets be specific . Why is anyone supposed to ignore the hadiths that show muhammad in bad light? Its not just Huraira but almost all the hadith narrators telling us something negative about muhammad so why are they supposed to be discarded?

I can understand one of them to be a fat liar but all?? This is ridiculous.Out of some 10,000 hadiths all are lies?
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

User avatar
AhmedBahgat
Posts: 3094
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:38 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Let me start with this one, kid. I posted it on facebook for my network of family and friends and was not even posted on my web site, however I will take the chance of translating it and will post it and many others on Free Islam and here inshaallah:

---------------------------------
Salam all

Today's note is from the following book:

Book: البداية والنهاية - Al-Bedayah wa Al-Nehaya - The Beginning and the End

Author: أبو الفداء إسماعيل بن عمر بن كثير - Ibn Kathir

I have the book, it is 25 word documents, and the following is found in document #14, page 204 of 264 pages, I highlighted it in yellow:

- وقال مسلم بن الحجاج: حدثنا عبد الله بن عبد الرحمن الدارمي، ثنا مروان الدمشقي عن الليث بن سعد، حدثني بكير بن الاشج.
قال: قال لنا بشر بن سعيد: اتقوا الله وتحفظوا من الحديث، فوالله لقد رأيتنا نجالس أبا هريرة فيحدث عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ويحدثنا عن كعب الاحبار ثم يقوم فأسمع بعض ما كان معنا يجعل حديث رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عن كعب، وحديث كعب عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وفي رواية يجعل ما قاله كعب عن رسول الله، وما قاله رسول الله عن كعب، فاتقوا الله وتحفظوا في الحديث، وقال يزيد بن هارون: سمعت شعبة يقول: أبو هريرة كان يدلس - أي يروي ما سمعه من كعب وما سمعه من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا يميز هذا من هذا - ذكره ابن عساكر.

وكان شعبة يشير بهذا إلى حديثه


Musim Bin Al-Hjaj said that a few people said that Bashar Bin Saeed said:

Fear Allah and memorise the hadith, as by Allah we sat with Abu Hurairah and he was transmitting hadith about the Messenger of Allah and Kaab Al-Ahbar. Then he goes and talks about it but I hear him making the haidth of the Messenger of Allah as to be from Kaab Al-Ahbar and the hadith of Kaab Al-Ahbar as to be from the Messenger of Allah.

In another story, the same was said about Abu Hurairah.

And Yazeed Bin Harun said:

I heard Shubbah saying, Abu Hurairah used to fabricate by saying what he heard from Kaab and the Messenger of Allah while not differentiating between them.

Ibn Asaakir also mentioned the same story

And Shubbah used to point to that in his hadith


Here you have it, kid. One of the most worshipped books by Al-Mushrikoon, The Beginning and the End by Ibn Kathir. In which we read in it that Abu Hurairah was a clear cut liar who mixed what he heard from Kaab Al-Ahbar (a Jewish who was the best mate to Abu Hurairah and supposed to have embraced Islam with him) with what he heard from the Messenger of Allah

You can download the document from the following link:

http://free-islam.com/Books/014.zip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, this is going to be a new slam dunk show for you only, kid, so I am going to start counting from the beginning and let me see how a kid like you is going to refute the above and what I will be posting about Abu Hurairah from their own man made fukin books.

The above alone should be, for any sane human, enough to dismiss all what is alleged by Abu Hurairah.

Welcome to my Slam Dunk Show starring the Kid and his lover Abu-Hurairah:

Image # 1

User avatar
Centaur
Posts: 2149
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:14 pm

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by Centaur »

keep it up nutcase. No one here takes all hadith to be true word by word.And If you think Hadith is garbage then Korand is even more garbage.People are not robots, and there are chances of things getting mixed up when the message is passed as word of mouth only, and such is the case with all historical recordings. That said its not enough to prove all hadiths are lie.On the contrary we only need to show a single verse from Korand to disprove it as it claims to be the verbatim word of freaking monster Allah.
Hadith are much valid than Korand in terms of history, life and deeds of Paedo Mo
Click to win $50,0000 :rock:

only 2% of KKK are radical, the rest are peaceful law abiding moderates
Islamic Football Team: Striker:Extremist; Defender: Moderate One; Goallie :Leftist

User avatar
AhmedBahgat
Posts: 3094
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:38 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Ahmed chose to reply to one of the life dismmissed inamtes:
Cuntaur wrote:keep it up nutcase. No one here takes all hadith to be true word by word.And If you think Hadith is garbage then Korand is even more garbage.

Blah blah, I am a filthy retarded piece of trash
But I am not asking you to believe in the Quran you filthy retarded jerk

Back to your cell, filthy

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by yeezevee »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Ahmed chose to reply to one of the life dismmissed inamtes:
[color=#FF0000]Cuntaur[/color] wrote:keep it up nutcase. No one here takes all hadith to be true word by word.And If you think Hadith is garbage then Korand is even more garbage.

Blah blah, I am a filthy retarded piece of trash
But I am not asking you to believe in the Quran you filthy retarded jerk

Back to your cell, filthy
You seem not to understand the basics of discussion in FFI dear AhmedBahgat.


people of FFI get hadith only to those billion Muslims who believe in hadith . For fellows like you, people here are saying "Quran is trash"., So deal with that dear Ahmed.

User avatar
AhmedBahgat
Posts: 3094
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:38 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

yeezevee wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:Ahmed chose to reply to one of the life dismmissed inamtes:
[color=#FF0000]Cuntaur[/color] wrote:keep it up nutcase. No one here takes all hadith to be true word by word.And If you think Hadith is garbage then Korand is even more garbage.

Blah blah, I am a filthy retarded piece of trash
But I am not asking you to believe in the Quran you filthy retarded jerk

Back to your cell, filthy
You seem not to understand the basics of discussion in FFI dear AhmedBahgat.


people of FFI get hadith only to those billion Muslims who believe in hadith . For fellows like you, people here are saying "Quran is trash"., So deal with that dear Ahmed.
But I am already doing that for so many years, did you forgot my slam dunk show and 10,000 comments on the other site or what? Whoever, my point still stands that I am not asking the kafirs like you to believe in Quran as I do, you on the other hand are a bunch of retarded freaks, you want me to unbelieve in the Quran as you do. bloody funny by a bunch of confused souls

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by yeezevee »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
yeezevee wrote:You seem not to understand the basics of discussion in FFI dear AhmedBahgat.


people of FFI get hadith only to those billion Muslims who believe in hadith . For fellows like you, people here are saying "Quran is trash"., So deal with that dear Ahmed.
But I am already doing that for so many years, did you forgot my slam dunk show and 10,000 comments on the other site or what? Whoever, my point still stands that I am not asking the kafirs like you to believe in Quran as I do, you on the other hand are a bunch of retarded freaks, you want me to unbelieve in the Quran as you do. bloody funny by a bunch of confused souls
I don't care what you believe or not believe., for that matter any one from any religion., What all I am saying is these books are man made books and some of it in these books is trash., THE WORST OF ALL IN THESE BOOKS HAPPENED TO BE QURAN with a large number of followers. And this is because if not you, millions of other Muslim mullahs and imam bums forced the book on people either by warfare or by intellectual dishonesty by saying "it is the word of Allah/God ..whatever"..

That is all what I am saying., you can believe anything you want but don't try to get public funds to support your silly belief..

User avatar
AhmedBahgat
Posts: 3094
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:38 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

yeezevee wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
yeezevee wrote:You seem not to understand the basics of discussion in FFI dear AhmedBahgat.


people of FFI get hadith only to those billion Muslims who believe in hadith . For fellows like you, people here are saying "Quran is trash"., So deal with that dear Ahmed.
But I am already doing that for so many years, did you forgot my slam dunk show and 10,000 comments on the other site or what? Whoever, my point still stands that I am not asking the kafirs like you to believe in Quran as I do, you on the other hand are a bunch of retarded freaks, you want me to unbelieve in the Quran as you do. bloody funny by a bunch of confused souls
I don't care what you believe or not believe., for that matter any one from any religion., What all I am saying is these books are man made books and some of it in these books is trash., THE WORST OF ALL IN THESE BOOKS HAPPENED TO BE QURAN with a large number of followers. And this is because if not you, millions of other Muslim mullahs and imam bums forced the book on people either by warfare or by intellectual dishonesty by saying "it is the word of Allah/God ..whatever"..

That is all what I am saying., you can believe anything you want but don't try to get public funds to support your silly belief..
But again, no human claimed to be the author of the Quran, so your allegation will stay rejected until you prove beyond an atom weight of doubt that the Quran is man made

Also I dont collect any funds to support anything, you confused

Post Reply