Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

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Sten
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Sten »

Cmon Ahmed, just answer the question - it shouldn't be that hard.
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Salam all

Time for slam dunk #95, which is support to what my brother Eagle said, that the 5 times of salat are mentioned in Quran, let’s have a look shall we:

We have 5 salat/day:

1- Fajr (Dawn)
2- Zuhr (Noon)
3- Asr (Afternoon)
4- Maghrib (Sunset)
5- Isha (Night)

>> The first, fourth and fifth salat (Dawn, Sunset and Night) are mentioned indirectly in the following verse:

وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ ۚ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَاتِ يُذْهِبْنَ السَّيِّئَاتِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ ذِكْرَىٰ لِلذَّاكِرِينَ (114)
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and a portion of the night. Indeed, good deeds remove evil deeds; that is a reminder for those who remember.
[Al Quran ; 11:114]

-> See: وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and a portion of the night.

As you have seen, the Quran refers to the first and fourth salat times (Dawn and Sunset) metaphorically by using the words: طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ , i.e. the two ends of the day. For Isha (Night) prayer, the Quran used the words: زُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. a portion of the night to refer to it.

>> The Dawn and Night prayer are also mentioned directly in the following verse:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لِيَسْتَأْذِنْكُمُ الَّذِينَ مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ لَمْ يَبْلُغُوا الْحُلُمَ مِنْكُمْ ثَلَاثَ مَرَّاتٍ ۚ مِنْ قَبْلِ صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ وَحِينَ تَضَعُونَ ثِيَابَكُمْ مِنَ الظَّهِيرَةِ وَمِنْ بَعْدِ صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ ۚ ثَلَاثُ عَوْرَاتٍ لَكُمْ ۚ لَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَلَا عَلَيْهِمْ جُنَاحٌ بَعْدَهُنَّ ۚ طَوَّافُونَ عَلَيْكُمْ بَعْضُكُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمُ الْآيَاتِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ (58)
O you who have believed! Let those whom your oaths possess and those of you who have not reached puberty ask your permission three times, before the dawn prayer (Fajr), and when you put aside your clothing at noon, and after the night prayer (Isha); (these are) three times of privacy for you. And there is no blame upon you nor upon them beyond these (three times), (when) some of you move around others. Thus does Allah explain to you the signs; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
[Al Quran ; 24:58]

-> See: صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ , i.e. the dawn prayer (Fajr) , & صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ , i.e. the night prayer (Isha)

>> The third salat (Afternoon) is logically mentioned in the following verse:

حَافِظُواْ عَلَى الصَّلَوَاتِ والصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى وَقُومُواْ لِلّهِ قَانِتِينَ (238)
Maintain the prayers and the middle prayer, and stand up before Allah in obedience.
[Al Quran ; 2:238]

-> See: الصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى , i.e. the middle prayer, which should be logically the third in five prayers/day, i.e. Al-Asr (Afternoon) prayer.

There is also a whole sura named Al-Asr in which we read how such time is very important in the sight of Allah:

وَالْعَصْرِ (1)
(I swear) by the afternoon.
[Al Quran ; 103:1]

>> The first, second, third, fourth and fifth salats are mentioned (metaphorically) in the following verse:

أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ ۖ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا (78)
Establish prayer from the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night and (recite) the Quran of dawn, indeed, the Quran of dawn is witnessed.
[Al Quran ; 17:78]

- The second, third, fourth and fifth (Noon, Afternoon, Sunset and Night) prayers are mentioned in one expression implying continues action of prayer: أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. Establish prayer from the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night. From the decline of the sun means from the point where it is at the top of you, i.e. noon prayer until it disappears, i.e. going through the afternoon prayer and ending with sunset prayer. Then the prayer should continue until the night prayer is performed.

-> The first prayer (Dawn) was referred to as an action of reciting the Quran OF dawn: وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ ۖ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا , i.e. and (recite) the Quran of dawn, indeed, the Quran of dawn is witnessed. See how it is refereed to as the Quran OF dawn, not the Quran AT dawn, i.e. the recited Quran during Dawn prayer.

Here you have it kafirs, you have been slammed again. But hey, if you wont get sick of being slammed, I won’t get sick of slamming you:


Image # 95
I asked for the verse that says pray 5 times per day. Can you give it to me?? You and I both know where that figure of 5 times per day comes from.
orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night

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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

Sten wrote:Cmon Ahmed, just answer the question - it shouldn't be that hard.
It IS hard, for an habitual liar.
orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night

yeezevee
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by yeezevee »

"Muhammad bin Lyin" retorts with a question for what robot says :

I asked for the verse that says pray 5 times per day. Can you give it to me?? You and I both know where that figure of 5 times per day comes from.
So where is the answer dear A_B??
Last edited by yeezevee on Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

yeezevee wrote:
And Muslims like robot, twist, turn and lie to cover the clothes of our naked Prophet by using acrobatic jugglery of Arabic words.. so take that dung on your face dear robot.. That particular ayah is nothing but it shows SODOM character of Mr. PBUH in the afternoon times. And guys like you invent all sorts silly translation from that simple ayah..
Perfect. It's exactly what the liar deserves.
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yeezevee
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by yeezevee »

Muhammad bin Lyin" asks:

I asked for the verse that says pray 5 times per day. Can you give it to me?? You and I both know where that figure of 5 times per day comes from.
Well., you know Allah is smarter than all., If Allah said in such simple words.. "You Idiots, Pray 5 times a day and here are the times".., and If all of it is put in to a single verse like that, then it is so simple as if it looks like a man made verse.

So Allah puts that Prayers times and praying in different times in different ayahs in different surahs And some of it goes in to a secret tunnel called Hadith. So The believers have to figure out those secrets running circles around Kabbah and bending their heads up down all the time during the prayer and rest of the time you do the same thing in Islamic schools..



Fools made a silly book as book of Allah... Word of God..

Eagle
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Eagle »

piscohot wrote:the Practical Sunnah is also Mr. A telling Mr. B who then told Mr. C and so on...

It could have been changed, even minor changes, somewhere along the oral tranmission
There are slight variations as to the body postures during prayers (for example some will cross their hands while standing, others will leave them straight), this shows that the prophet Muhammad and the early Muslims were not as rigid as is usually thought on these secondary aspects of prayers and may have physically expressed themselves differently during prayers depending on the circumstances, personal spiritual emotions etc.

Rigidity of the outward ceremonial is not what Islam teaches and very often warns the believers not to fall into the error into which the previous people fell, who sacrificed the spirit of religion for the outward ceremonial (namely the Bani Israel as amply demonstrated by the prophet Jesus in the NT). The Quran is full of verses stressing the importance of the spiritual aspect, the intent behind each practice of the Divine Law, the Sharia 2:151"We have sent among you a Messenger from among you who recites to you Our communications and purifies you and teaches you the Book and the wisdom and teaches you that which you did not know".
The Book and the Wisdom is an expression referring to the body and soul of the shariah respectively, to its commandments and their philosophy.

Eagle
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Eagle »

Spoiler! :
AhmedBahgat wrote:Salam all

Time for slam dunk #95, which is support to what my brother Eagle said, that the 5 times of salat are mentioned in Quran, let’s have a look shall we:

We have 5 salat/day:

1- Fajr (Dawn)
2- Zuhr (Noon)
3- Asr (Afternoon)
4- Maghrib (Sunset)
5- Isha (Night)

>> The first, fourth and fifth salat (Dawn, Sunset and Night) are mentioned indirectly in the following verse:

وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ ۚ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَاتِ يُذْهِبْنَ السَّيِّئَاتِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ ذِكْرَىٰ لِلذَّاكِرِينَ (114)
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and a portion of the night. Indeed, good deeds remove evil deeds; that is a reminder for those who remember.
[Al Quran ; 11:114]

-> See: وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and a portion of the night.

As you have seen, the Quran refers to the first and fourth salat times (Dawn and Sunset) metaphorically by using the words: طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ , i.e. the two ends of the day. For Isha (Night) prayer, the Quran used the words: زُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. a portion of the night to refer to it.

>> The Dawn and Night prayer are also mentioned directly in the following verse:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لِيَسْتَأْذِنْكُمُ الَّذِينَ مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ لَمْ يَبْلُغُوا الْحُلُمَ مِنْكُمْ ثَلَاثَ مَرَّاتٍ ۚ مِنْ قَبْلِ صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ وَحِينَ تَضَعُونَ ثِيَابَكُمْ مِنَ الظَّهِيرَةِ وَمِنْ بَعْدِ صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ ۚ ثَلَاثُ عَوْرَاتٍ لَكُمْ ۚ لَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَلَا عَلَيْهِمْ جُنَاحٌ بَعْدَهُنَّ ۚ طَوَّافُونَ عَلَيْكُمْ بَعْضُكُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمُ الْآيَاتِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ (58)
O you who have believed! Let those whom your oaths possess and those of you who have not reached puberty ask your permission three times, before the dawn prayer (Fajr), and when you put aside your clothing at noon, and after the night prayer (Isha); (these are) three times of privacy for you. And there is no blame upon you nor upon them beyond these (three times), (when) some of you move around others. Thus does Allah explain to you the signs; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
[Al Quran ; 24:58]

-> See: صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ , i.e. the dawn prayer (Fajr) , & صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ , i.e. the night prayer (Isha)

>> The third salat (Afternoon) is logically mentioned in the following verse:

حَافِظُواْ عَلَى الصَّلَوَاتِ والصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى وَقُومُواْ لِلّهِ قَانِتِينَ (238)
Maintain the prayers and the middle prayer, and stand up before Allah in obedience.
[Al Quran ; 2:238]

-> See: الصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى , i.e. the middle prayer, which should be logically the third in five prayers/day, i.e. Al-Asr (Afternoon) prayer.

There is also a whole sura named Al-Asr in which we read how such time is very important in the sight of Allah:

وَالْعَصْرِ (1)
(I swear) by the afternoon.
[Al Quran ; 103:1]

>> The first, second, third, fourth and fifth salats are mentioned (metaphorically) in the following verse:

أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ ۖ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا (78)
Establish prayer from the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night and (recite) the Quran of dawn, indeed, the Quran of dawn is witnessed.
[Al Quran ; 17:78]

- The second, third, fourth and fifth (Noon, Afternoon, Sunset and Night) prayers are mentioned in one expression implying continues action of prayer: أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. Establish prayer from the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night. From the decline of the sun means from the point where it is at the top of you, i.e. noon prayer until it disappears, i.e. going through the afternoon prayer and ending with sunset prayer. Then the prayer should continue until the night prayer is performed.

-> The first prayer (Dawn) was referred to as an action of reciting the Quran OF dawn: وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ ۖ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا , i.e. and (recite) the Quran of dawn, indeed, the Quran of dawn is witnessed. See how it is refereed to as the Quran OF dawn, not the Quran AT dawn, i.e. the recited Quran during Dawn prayer.

Here you have it kafirs, you have been slammed again. But hey, if you wont get sick of being slammed, I won’t get sick of slamming you:


Image # 95
You spoon fed it to them as it ought to be done. I wanted to further abase the disbelievers alleging that the 5prayers are not mentionned in the Quran, by forcing them to bring the verses by themselves.

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skynightblaze
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by skynightblaze »

Eagle wrote:
piscohot wrote:the Practical Sunnah is also Mr. A telling Mr. B who then told Mr. C and so on...

It could have been changed, even minor changes, somewhere along the oral tranmission
There are slight variations as to the body postures during prayers (for example some will cross their hands while standing, others will leave them straight), this shows that the prophet Muhammad and the early Muslims were not as rigid as is usually thought on these secondary aspects of prayers and may have physically expressed themselves differently during prayers depending on the circumstances, personal spiritual emotions etc.
What is the source for this? I thought you didnt believe in the written hadiths and now you are using the same to support your point? So hadiths can be refered when it supports your point but not otherwise . Arent you tired of defending your fake prophet?
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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skynightblaze
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by skynightblaze »

Ahmed Bahgat wrote:238)
Maintain the prayers and the middle prayer, and stand up before Allah in obedience.
[Al Quran ; 2:238]

-> See: الصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى , i.e. the middle prayer, which should be logically the third in five prayers/day, i.e. Al-Asr (Afternoon) prayer.

There is also a whole sura named Al-Asr in which we read how such time is very important in the sight of Allah:
:lol: You have been caught you filthy fool.How do you know middle prayer means the 3rd prayer or the afternoon prayers? . When quran says " Middle prayer" we need to know the number of prayers to determine the middle one and therefore quran has to specify the no of prayers but quran doesnt mention the no of prayers so if we are to use quran alone how are we supposed to know which is the middle prayer? That no 5 comes from the hadith and not the quran so tell me which is the middle prayer using quran alone? YOu cant use no 5 and tell me middle means the 3rd because it would mean you are using hadith to get the no 5 and then get the middle as 3 .

If you didnt have the hadith you wouldnt know which the middle prayer would be .You are assuming that the no of prayers is 5 and hence when quran said middle it must be talking about afternoon .YOu are here supposed to defend here using quran alone so no 5 is out of picture because it comes from the hadiths.Show us where explicitly quran talks about 5 prayers.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

Eagle wrote:
Spoiler! :
AhmedBahgat wrote:Salam all

Time for slam dunk #95, which is support to what my brother Eagle said, that the 5 times of salat are mentioned in Quran, let’s have a look shall we:

We have 5 salat/day:

1- Fajr (Dawn)
2- Zuhr (Noon)
3- Asr (Afternoon)
4- Maghrib (Sunset)
5- Isha (Night)

>> The first, fourth and fifth salat (Dawn, Sunset and Night) are mentioned indirectly in the following verse:

وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ ۚ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَاتِ يُذْهِبْنَ السَّيِّئَاتِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ ذِكْرَىٰ لِلذَّاكِرِينَ (114)
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and a portion of the night. Indeed, good deeds remove evil deeds; that is a reminder for those who remember.
[Al Quran ; 11:114]

-> See: وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and a portion of the night.

As you have seen, the Quran refers to the first and fourth salat times (Dawn and Sunset) metaphorically by using the words: طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ , i.e. the two ends of the day. For Isha (Night) prayer, the Quran used the words: زُلَفًا مِنَ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. a portion of the night to refer to it.

>> The Dawn and Night prayer are also mentioned directly in the following verse:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لِيَسْتَأْذِنْكُمُ الَّذِينَ مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ لَمْ يَبْلُغُوا الْحُلُمَ مِنْكُمْ ثَلَاثَ مَرَّاتٍ ۚ مِنْ قَبْلِ صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ وَحِينَ تَضَعُونَ ثِيَابَكُمْ مِنَ الظَّهِيرَةِ وَمِنْ بَعْدِ صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ ۚ ثَلَاثُ عَوْرَاتٍ لَكُمْ ۚ لَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَلَا عَلَيْهِمْ جُنَاحٌ بَعْدَهُنَّ ۚ طَوَّافُونَ عَلَيْكُمْ بَعْضُكُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمُ الْآيَاتِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ (58)
O you who have believed! Let those whom your oaths possess and those of you who have not reached puberty ask your permission three times, before the dawn prayer (Fajr), and when you put aside your clothing at noon, and after the night prayer (Isha); (these are) three times of privacy for you. And there is no blame upon you nor upon them beyond these (three times), (when) some of you move around others. Thus does Allah explain to you the signs; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
[Al Quran ; 24:58]

-> See: صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ , i.e. the dawn prayer (Fajr) , & صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ , i.e. the night prayer (Isha)

>> The third salat (Afternoon) is logically mentioned in the following verse:

حَافِظُواْ عَلَى الصَّلَوَاتِ والصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى وَقُومُواْ لِلّهِ قَانِتِينَ (238)
Maintain the prayers and the middle prayer, and stand up before Allah in obedience.
[Al Quran ; 2:238]

-> See: الصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى , i.e. the middle prayer, which should be logically the third in five prayers/day, i.e. Al-Asr (Afternoon) prayer.

There is also a whole sura named Al-Asr in which we read how such time is very important in the sight of Allah:

وَالْعَصْرِ (1)
(I swear) by the afternoon.
[Al Quran ; 103:1]

>> The first, second, third, fourth and fifth salats are mentioned (metaphorically) in the following verse:

أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ ۖ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا (78)
Establish prayer from the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night and (recite) the Quran of dawn, indeed, the Quran of dawn is witnessed.
[Al Quran ; 17:78]

- The second, third, fourth and fifth (Noon, Afternoon, Sunset and Night) prayers are mentioned in one expression implying continues action of prayer: أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ , i.e. Establish prayer from the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night. From the decline of the sun means from the point where it is at the top of you, i.e. noon prayer until it disappears, i.e. going through the afternoon prayer and ending with sunset prayer. Then the prayer should continue until the night prayer is performed.

-> The first prayer (Dawn) was referred to as an action of reciting the Quran OF dawn: وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ ۖ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا , i.e. and (recite) the Quran of dawn, indeed, the Quran of dawn is witnessed. See how it is refereed to as the Quran OF dawn, not the Quran AT dawn, i.e. the recited Quran during Dawn prayer.

Here you have it kafirs, you have been slammed again. But hey, if you wont get sick of being slammed, I won’t get sick of slamming you:


Image # 95
You spoon fed it to them as it ought to be done. I wanted to further abase the disbelievers alleging that the 5prayers are not mentionned in the Quran, by forcing them to bring the verses by themselves.
Here comes a spoonful right up your rotten, lying arss. The very, very well respected IslamOnline.com wrote the following article about prayers.

http://islamonline.com/news/articles/6/ ... pray_.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At first the prophet (pbuh) prayed two rakah twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening.

From that time, the Prophet (pbuh) never went through a day without praying. Just before his migration to Madinah, he was taken on a night journey to Jerusalem and then to the heavens (Mi`raaj).

During this journey, Allah, Almighty, ordered him to pray five times a day. This prayer was a gift given to every Believer to enable him to experience a spiritual ascension five times a day.
Gee, it's EXACTLY what I say. How come I agree with their scholars, and you don't?? Because you're a filthy liar and you even lie to yourself.
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pr126
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by pr126 »

he was taken on a night journey to Jerusalem and then to the heavens (Mi`raaj).
Where does it say that he was taken to Jerusalem? (chapter and verse from the Quran?)
Is the name Jerusalem in the Quran at all?
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Centaur
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Centaur »

the prayers at 5 times are not mentioned in the Quran, and no verbal gymnastics would change things.A simple vesre which mentions the 5 prayer times would have sorted the matter out. its that simple but on the contrary bees eat fruit is there, how to deceive and marry adopted sons wife is there :lol:
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

pr126 wrote:
he was taken on a night journey to Jerusalem and then to the heavens (Mi`raaj).
Where does it say that he was taken to Jerusalem? (chapter and verse from the Quran?)
Is the name Jerusalem in the Quran at all?
17:1 (Y. Ali) Glory to ((Allah)) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

How can we know what where the farthest Mosque is by following only the Quran and nothing else? Without the story of the night journey, Al Aqsa and even Jerusalem has no significance. Let's face it, all this nonsense about trying to remove the hadiths from Islam is merely because they are such an embarrassment. But, it doesn't work because the Quran alone is proven to be insufficient. Where's the farthest Mosque?? It doesn't say what the farthest Mosque is in the Quran. So Muslims like BagHat and Eagle want to have their cake and eat it too. This is the general, duplicitous nature of Muslims.

But notice that the Quran doesn't think it needs to say where the farthest mosque is. That's because Muhammad already told them the whole story of the journey and where he took off from, and this is why the Quran didn't seem to think it needed to go into any details. They already knew the details and the Quran was merely reminding them that this happened. So Muhammad did INDEED tell that whole cockamanie story about the night journey. That recording is no fabrication, although the story itself is a fabrication from Muhammad.
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Centaur »

Or are kuffars hiding this verse by any chance?

Koran 2:216. O ye muslims, prayers at 5 times a day is prescribed for you fajr,zuhr,azr,magrib and isha , and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you.And dont forget to cut the kuffar into pieces for Alllah is all knowing, most Merciful
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Eagle »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:all this nonsense about trying to remove the hadiths from Islam is merely because they are such an embarrassment. But, it doesn't work because the Quran alone is proven to be insufficient. Where's the farthest Mosque?? It doesn't say what the farthest Mosque is in the Quran.
Tradition and known history is not always equal with hadith, just like sunna is not equal with hadith. Hadiths can contain correct history and true sunna but not always.
For example the Quran tells the believers to turn their face towards the sacred mosque in prayers. One does not need to turn to the hadiths to know that the sacred mosque is the Kaaba in Mecca just like one does not turn to hadith to know that the furthest mosque is in Jerusalem. That is called common historical knowledge. There are tons of hadiths that do not contain any sunna and that do not represent history or common knowledge of the time properly.

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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

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Eagle wrote:One does not need to turn to the hadiths to know that the sacred mosque is the Kaaba in Mecca just like one does not turn to hadith to know that the furthest mosque is in Jerusalem. That is called common historical knowledge.

and where does this 'common historical knowledge' comes from?
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by piscohot »

Eagle wrote:
piscohot wrote:the Practical Sunnah is also Mr. A telling Mr. B who then told Mr. C and so on...

It could have been changed, even minor changes, somewhere along the oral tranmission
There are slight variations as to the body postures during prayers (for example some will cross their hands while standing, others will leave them straight), this shows that the prophet Muhammad and the early Muslims were not as rigid as is usually thought on these secondary aspects of prayers and may have physically expressed themselves differently during prayers depending on the circumstances, personal spiritual emotions etc.
thanks for confirming that Practical Sunnah through Oral transmission is not perfect as maintained by LiarBahgat.
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

Eagle wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:all this nonsense about trying to remove the hadiths from Islam is merely because they are such an embarrassment. But, it doesn't work because the Quran alone is proven to be insufficient. Where's the farthest Mosque?? It doesn't say what the farthest Mosque is in the Quran.
Tradition and known history is not always equal with hadith, just like sunna is not equal with hadith. Hadiths can contain correct history and true sunna but not always.
The point is, that it's not in the Quran and therefore the Quran verse of 17:1 is not sufficient in of itself, nor is the Quran itself sufficient for explanation. It requires additional knowledge, like the night journey story that you keep trying to avoid. It's quite clear that the author of the Quran didn't think it was necessary to explain a little more about what it meant in 17:1, as if it assumed that everybody already had the full story, and merely needed a reminder. That means that Muhammad did indeed tell them that story. Otherwise, the verse is quite vague or even cryptic completely on it's own. Signs?? What does that mean without any specifics??
Eagle wrote: For example the Quran tells the believers to turn their face towards the sacred mosque in prayers. One does not need to turn to the hadiths to know that the sacred mosque is the Kaaba in Meccajust like one does not turn to hadith to know that the furthest mosque is in Jerusalem. That is called common historical knowledge.
Where did the people of Muhammad's time get this knowledge from?? The Quran, or the night journey story Muhammad seems to have told. Again, the Quran treats this journey as something the believers are already familiar with, which would mean that Muhammad did indeed utter that story. And look at the Islam Online link i provided. It's common knowledge that this is why there are 5 prayers per day. You should argue with them first, and then get your stories straight and come back to me. :lol:
Eagle wrote: There are tons of hadiths that do not contain any sunna and that do not represent history or common knowledge of the time properly.
So what??
Last edited by Muhammad bin Lyin on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

piscohot wrote:
Eagle wrote:One does not need to turn to the hadiths to know that the sacred mosque is the Kaaba in Mecca just like one does not turn to hadith to know that the furthest mosque is in Jerusalem. That is called common historical knowledge.

and where does this 'common historical knowledge' comes from?
Not the Quran, eh?? So when the hadiths and other, non Quran writings which are supposedly forbidden to write down are embarrassing, they are thrown out, but when they are needed to help build the story they are pulled back out of the trashcan and dusted off, and then thrown back in there when they are not needed again. There seems to be no integrity in the Muslim thought process.
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