Praying/Fasting/Hajj in Quran?

[AhmedBahgat]

It seems the kafir added more to his post, well same crap for sure:

Not forgetting that the Quran was collected and put in writing in exactly the same manner as the hadiths, from memories of men, by the orders of Utman, who burned several versions before deciding which one to keep.
That makes the decision of a man, (Uthman) and not Allah, who apparently had no say in the matter.

Those Muslims who died in the battle of Yamama may have had important verses and lost or ever.
Allah guarded the Quran. Yeah, right.

Ignorant, Muslims are required by Allah to believe in Allah, the Quran, the angels, the messnegers and the last day

your man made crap hadith is not in the list, you confused kafir. Dismiss yourself

[AhmedBahgat]

Ahmed chose to reply to the usual stupid comments by that dismissed kafir:

Ahmed wrote:

I am from the minority called (Muslims), true Muslims that is

Wow. 1.2 Billion who are calling themselves Muslims are not Muslims at all. Well, not True MuslimsTM, that is.

Indeed, you Quran ignorant, read this and educate your pinhead:

وَمَا يُؤْمِنُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِاللَّهِ إِلَّا وَهُمْ مُشْرِكُونَ (106)
And most of them do not believe in Allah except while they are polytheists.
[Al Quran ; 12:106]

But, if you are a minority, you have no power, no saying how Islam should be practised.

Ignorant, we have the ultimate power, we have Allah with us, read this you fool:

فَلَمَّا فَصَلَ طَالُوتُ بِالْجُنُودِ قَالَ إِنَّ اللّهَ مُبْتَلِيكُم بِنَهَرٍ فَمَن شَرِبَ مِنْهُ فَلَيْسَ مِنِّي وَمَن لَّمْ يَطْعَمْهُ فَإِنَّهُ مِنِّي إِلاَّ مَنِ اغْتَرَفَ غُرْفَةً بِيَدِهِ فَشَرِبُواْ مِنْهُ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً مِّنْهُمْ فَلَمَّا جَاوَزَهُ هُوَ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ مَعَهُ قَالُواْ لاَ طَاقَةَ لَنَا الْيَوْمَ بِجَالُوتَ وَجُنودِهِ قَالَ الَّذِينَ يَظُنُّونَ أَنَّهُم مُّلاَقُو اللّهِ كَم مِّن فِئَةٍ قَلِيلَةٍ غَلَبَتْ فِئَةً كَثِيرَةً بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَاللّهُ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ (249)
And when Talut set forth with the soldiers, he said: Allah will be testing you with a river, so whoever drinks from it is not of me, and whoever does not taste it is of me, except one who takes a little with his hand; and they drank from it except a few; and when he had crossed it along with those who have believed with him, they said: We have no power today against Jalut and his soldiers. Those who think that they will be meeting Allah said: Indeed, how many a small party has defeated a large party with the permission of Allah. And Allah is with the patient.
[Al Quran ; 2:249]

See: Allah said: Indeed, how many a small party has defeated a large party with the permission of Allah. And Allah is with the patient.

Majority rules.

Your filthy arse and most of the confused Muslims’ arse, majority will never rule my arse, punk

Get back in your box.

You have been life dismissed, you filthy time robber

http://www.free-islam.com/modules.php?n ... =3646#3646

Welcome to my Cyber Jail, inmate

[pr126]

Ahmed, let me tell you a little secret:
Allah as the ruler of the universe doesn't exist. It is only a stone idol that Muhammad promoted to hide behind, and do his bidding.

Remember the Muslim battle cry? Allah hu Akbar? Allah is greater? Greater that what?
Well, greater that the other 360 stone idols in the Kaaba, broken to pieces by Muhammad, leaving only one stone idol unmolested, his Allah.
Muhammad, a born pagan, son of a pagan, Abdallah.

All your rituals, fetishes are Arab paganism, have which existed centuries before Muhammad was born.

The biggest problem Muslims created for themselves is that they declared that the Qur'an is the word of Allah.
It is therefore unchangeable, it is locked into time for ever. Islam is trapped in amber. It cannot adapt to the progress of times like other religions can.
Judaism and Christianity has adapted to the changes and became less unyielding, less violent and dogmatic, more acceptable to human needs.
(New testament, or Christianity v.2.0). They understood that if they want to remain, they had to adapt.

Islam cannot do that.
Islam must change, or perish. If it changes, it won't be Islam any more.
The only thing keeps Islam going for now is lies and lethal force. Humanity will not stand for that barbaric ideology for long.

.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran, it should be deleted[/b][/color]

Great!!!! This means the night journey should be completely null and void and therefore there are no prayer recommendations. This also means that Al Asqa is no longer the third holiest site in Islam and instead has no significance at all. How many times per day do you pray? How do you pray?? Where do you get these ideas from?? Certainly not the Quran. So you even practice double standards on yourself. You even lie to yourself.

[Centaur]

the messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran, it should be deleted

#

not valid until the context is fully known. may be muslims try to write down all the conversions of Mohammed from dawn to desk? Lastly when since Mojhammed was consistent? The truth is that mohammed neither blocked Muslims from following his examples nor banned them from seeking his advice.

[pr126]

Ahmed wrote:

Ahmed chose to reply to the usual stupid comments by that dismissed kafir:

Only to make a bigger fool of yourself yet again. Congrats, Muslim, you've done it.

See how easy is to walk out of your stupid cyberjail?
Here is your list:

Those are the current life dismissals punks and hos on FFI who keep on stalking me: (you mean proving you wrong.)

1) Miss Waste (MsWesterner)
2) Piss Cohot (Piscohot)
3) Son of a Biitch (Sun)
4) Mr Sick (Mersk)
5) Khazandra (Cassandra) (Cassie)
6) Mastool (Musti)
8) Disgusting (Disguised)
9) Infilthy_01 (Infidel_01)
10) Trojan Donkey (Trojan Horse) (Trojan)
11) Real Pest (Realist) (Pragmatist - Fagmatist)
12) (Sunshine)
13) (antineoETC)
14) kenmomez (kenmirzz)
15) Charles_Mental (Charles_Martel)
16) Lets Lie (letstalk - Rajesh)
17) LSD (LCD)
18) Bin Weshkah (bin lyin)
19) Fartassia (Natassia)
20) Spin (Sten)
21) Cunteur (Centeur)
22) debunked (debunker - iffo)
23) pr126

What does it mean?
You still keep replying to all of them, so what is this childish "cyberjail" mean? It has no purpose other than stroking your ego.

Actually, I am quite pleased that I managed to rattle your cage in such a short time. It was so easy.

[Centaur]

coming from an islamic chauvinist society where women and minorities does not have any rights at all, I bet this guy used to dismiss his wife as well. but what he does not understand is , It does not work on a public forum like this.

[-Peace-]

ROFL @ Ahmed using "dismissed", "filthy", "arse", and "punk" in most of his posts. I wonder why he is even on these forums if he doesn't want to have a civil discussion and wants to "dismiss" questions asked to him.

[pr126]

ROFL @ Ahmed using "dismissed", "filthy", "arse", and "punk" in most of his posts. I wonder why he is even on these forums if he doesn't want to have a civil discussion and wants to "dismiss" questions asked to him.

He can't help it. He must abuse the kuffar, just to give himself self worth. It makes him feel better about himself.

It's a Muslim thing.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

ROFL @ Ahmed using "dismissed", "filthy", "arse", and "punk" in most of his posts. I wonder why he is even on these forums if he doesn't want to have a civil discussion and wants to "dismiss" questions asked to him.

Because he's a Muslim. They know how to lie to themselves. It's an uncanny ability that they all seem to have. Weird.

[skynightblaze]

@Bahgat

Muhammad made no attempts to preserve quran either then why do you believe in the quran?


[004:059]
O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

Who are the men of authority here whom we are supposed to obey and how?

Because Allah is the One Who is in charge to preserve it, read this you stubborn ignorant:

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ (9)
Indeed, We have sent down the reminder, and indeed, We will be for it guardians.
[Al Quran ; 15:9]

So according to you , hadiths were never collected by muhammad and quran never said to follow the hadiths and hence they are corrupted while quran also wasnt collected by muhammad but quran spoke about preservation of itself and hence its valid. Right?

Again I can see faulty logic and nothing else.Something doesnt become corrupted and fabricated just because quran didnt sanction it otherwise all books other than quran would also be false if we are to use that logic.Hadiths dont become a lie just because quran didnt say anything about following them.

At the max you can say that you cant follow them blindly but you can definitely take them as a source of information .You can get a generalized picture of your con man and sadly for you that is of a criminal.

Apart from that quran itself testifying of its purity cannot be taken as a proof . Only dumb bums like you can blindly believe in that.I hope you agree that a person under a charge in court cant ask to acquit himself on the basis of his own testimony alone.The case is similar here.

For your second stupid question, well men of authority are many people, like police officers, Judges, Pridesnts, etc etc

You dumb , the terms like police,president ,judges etc etc werent coined in 6th century when the verse was revealed So what were the people in the 6th century and some centuries after the verse was revealed supposed to make of this verse if you say that these terms refer to policmen ,judges etc?

[piscohot]

It is the human nature of submitting to Satan

I agree.
Just look at all the muslim men who submitted to Satan and chopped off a part of their penis.

Satan said:
4:119 And most certainly I will lead them astray and excite in them vain desires, and bid them so that they shall slit the ears of the cattle, and most certainly I will bid them so that they shall alter Allah's creation; and whoever takes the Shaitan for a guardian rather than Allah he indeed shall suffer a manifest loss.

everytime Ahmed looked down, he knew he had suffered a manifest loss.

[skynightblaze]

Spoiler! :

You are nothing but a confused wishful thinking lying ignorant

The hadith books were written 200 years after Muhammed died, on the other hand, let me use your own fuked up hadith against a hadith worshiper like you to slam dunk you with slam dunk # 94:

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... &Rec=10713

Ismael TOLD us that Hammam ibn Yahya TRANSFERRED from Zaid ibn Aslam who TRANSFERRED from Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran, it should be deleted

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... &Rec=10715

Shoaib TOLD us that Hammam SAID that Zaid ibn Aslam TRANSFERRED from Ibn Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything, it should be deleted

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... &Rec=10781

Yazeed TOLD us that Hammam ibn Yahya TRANSFERRED from Zaid ibn Aslam who TRANSFERRED from Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran, it should be deleted

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... &Rec=10966

Abu Ubaidah TOLD us that Hammam ibn Yahya TRANSFERRED from Zaid ibn Aslam who TRANSFERRED from Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything, it should be deleted

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... &Rec=11160

Affan TOLD us that Hammam TOLD us that Zaid ibn Aslam TRANSFERRED from Ibn Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran, it should be deleted

Here you have it, kafir, your own man made hadith slam dunked you:

# 94

Let's assume that hadith compilers were filthy liars and they corrupted the religion of islam. If they were deliberately lying they would have excluded this particular hadith from compilation because it would expose them as clear cut frauds!!

Liars would always take care of covering their tracks and I dont think anyone can be that idiot to include such a hadith in the compilation especially when it says clearly that everything other than the quran should be deleted as it would expose them as frauds.This would hamper their aim i.e to lie and defame the prophet of islam.This hadith renders all their work useless!

Tell how many idiots will you find on this earth who would compile such kind of hadiths and expose themselves ? Would you yourself include such a hadith if your aim was to fabricate things and pass fake information on muhammads name? This hadith infact shows that the compilers of hadith were honest to the core and took every care to report what Muhammad said.Infact this quote you brought establishes the fact hadith compilers were honest...

Coming to the the main point YES this hadith tells us that Muhammad said everything other than quran should be deleted but however we need to take a look as to why followers of muhammad decided to compile the hadiths...I am using hadiths to defend hadiths here..

Spoiler! :

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 3, Number 118:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

People say that I have narrated many Hadiths (The Prophet's narrations). Had it not been for two verses in the Qur'an, I would not have narrated a single Hadith, and the verses are:

"Verily those who conceal the clear sign and the guidance which We have sent down . . . (up to) Most Merciful." (2:159-160). And no doubt our Muhajir (emigrant) brothers used to be busy in the market with their business (bargains) and our Ansari brothers used to be busy with their property (agriculture). But I (Abu Huraira) used to stick to Allah's Apostle contented with what will fill my stomach and I used to attend that which they used not to attend and I used to memorize that which they used not to memorize.


Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 161:

Narrated Humran:

(the slave of 'Uthman) I saw 'Uthman bin 'Affan asking for a tumbler of water (and when it was brought) he poured water over his hands and washed them thrice and then put his right hand in the water container and rinsed his mouth, washed his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out. then he washed his face and forearrlns up to the elbows thrice, passed his wet hands over his head and washed his feet up to the ankles thrice. Then he said, "Allah's Apostle said 'If anyone Performs ablution like that of mine and offers a two-rak'at prayer during which he does not think of anything else (not related to the present prayer) then his past sins will be forgiven.' " After performing the ablution 'Uthman said, "I am going to tell you a Hadith which I would not have told you, had I not been compelled by a certain Holy Verse (the sub narrator 'Urwa said: This verse is: "Verily, those who conceal the clear signs and the guidance which we have sent down...)" (2:159). I heard the Prophet saying, 'If a man performs ablution perfectly and then offers the compulsory congregational prayer, Allah will forgive his sins committed between that (prayer) and the (next) prayer till he offers it.

So we clearly see from the above hadiths that companions of muhammad feared that true guidance and meaning of the quran would be lost so this is what made them to compile hadiths..Also there is a hadith where muhammad himself says that he who doesnt follow my sunnah has no relation to me so companions of muhammad considered documenting the hadiths from muhammad otherwise how is anyone supposed to understand the sunnah of muhammad? So they didnt compile the hadiths to fabricate lies but to preserve the religious knowledge and guidance.

I cant deny that they made a mistake of compiling the hadiths inspite of muhammad warning them not to do so but however
they disobeying muhammad doesnt necessarily mean what they compiled were complete lies.The conclusion is only one i.e they disobeyed muhammad and not that they made up lies.

There is still a possibility that they merely disobeyed muhammad but spoke the truth and documented whatever muhammad said .I know I have to prove this possibility as the truth...so here we go...

This possibility becomes more likely when we see that the same hadith compiler also included facts which would expose him/her.This shows their honesty in documenting facts about their prophet.Someone whose aim was to defame muhammad would definitely take care to exclude facts which would obviously expose him/her.

Also if the hadith compiler like Bukhari were lying then no one in the 9th century would promote his book for next 1000 years or so.Ask yourself would you promote any book that lies about islam today?

Let me give you a burning example here to further prove my point..You yourself accepted that praying 5 times a day is valid since it has been passed down from ages and the early companions cannot possibly forget something that they used to do their whole life. Now inspite of muhammad warning against the hadiths , the hadith of sahih bukhari documented about praying 5 times ! . I can give plenty of examples of hadiths confirming the quran..

I think this proves my point that eventhough muhammad warned his companions to delete anything other than the quran , it doesnt mean hadiths compiled were lies and hence we shouldnt discard them in entirety as you do because most of the stuff from the hadith seems to be true inspite of muhammad warning his companions not to document anything!So there is only one conclusion i,e we must take the hadiths with a grain of salt and we can sift through them using logic.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Where does the Quran show how to pray? Where does the Quran show how to fast? Where does the Quran show how to do Hajj? If this is not in the Quran then do people find out from the Hadith's? If so, can someone please show me the Hadith's that show how a prayer is done, how fasting is done and Hajj?

Well, well well

How to pray, is not in Quran

How to fast is in Quran but needs elaboration as it was stated metaphorically

How to do Hajj is mostely stated in Quran

On the other hand, how to pray, is never found in the man made hadith, I already challenged Muslims for the last 5 years to show it to me and they never did

But at the end of the day, we dont need written books to tell us how to pray or how to fast or how to do hajj, this is called PRACTICAL SUNNAH, which is inherited ORALLY and was practiced 5 times a day (for prayer) and once a year (for fasting and doing hajj), impossible that the early Muslims would have ever forgotten that, and cnsequently we the later Muslims inherited ORALLY from them. No need for the rubbish and satanic books of man made hadith

OK, so let's go liar. Where did that figure of 5 times come from? The Quran?? Mere common sense?? Or the night journey embarrassment that you desperately wish you could bury?? Come on, you know it liar. Fess up. Everybody gets to see the Muslim lie once again.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Tell how many idiots will you find on this earth who would compile such kind of hadiths and expose themselves ? Would you yourself include such a hadith if your aim was to fabricate things and pass fake information on muhammads name? This hadith infact shows that the compilers of hadith were honest to the core and took every care to report what Muhammad said.Infact this quote you brought establishes the fact hadith compilers were honest...

Of course, for the most part, the hadiths were accurate or as best as people could recall, and they do indeed give us insight into what sort of man Muhammad was. Why would people make up such negative things like assassinations, caravan robbing, and a taste or preference for little girls?? Besides, look at how religious (scared) these people were about going to hell. Do you think they would purposefully invent bogus stories about Muhammad thereby guaranteeing them a place in hell???? Of course not. These people wouldn't do that, they were scared to death by the Quran.

There is only one reason why Muslims now try to bury the hadiths, and it's because they are incredibly embarrassing in the 21st century and these particular Muslims have at least a small amount of common sense and know that they cannot remain Muslims if the hadiths were true. So there is hope for these particular Muslims. There's a little tiny spot of rational thinking somewhere in there.

But burying the hadiths really does very little good considering that the Quran told us that one day, the sky will tear open because IT will be flimsy. It says THE sky (singular), not all things in the sky, will tear open because IT will be flimsy. That alone is enough to throw the entire Quran out right there. How can anybody believe this book is the letter for letter dictation of God when it makes mistakes like that all over the place?? How could anybody remain a Muslim?? And if it isn't the letter for letter dictation of God, then Muhammad was either a delusional madman, or a liar. But Muslims ignore it and lie to themselves. They need Islam to be true so desperately, that they lie to themselves and they don't even see the faintest problem with that.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Ahmed wrote:

Ahmed chose to reply to the usual stupid comments by that dismissed kafir:

Only to make a bigger fool of yourself yet again. Congrats, Muslim, you've done it.

See how easy is to walk out of your stupid cyberjail?
Here is your list:

Those are the current life dismissals punks and hos on FFI who keep on stalking me: (you mean proving you wrong.)

1) Miss Waste (MsWesterner)
2) Piss Cohot (Piscohot)
3) Son of a Biitch (Sun)
4) Mr Sick (Mersk)
5) Khazandra (Cassandra) (Cassie)
6) Mastool (Musti)
8) Disgusting (Disguised)
9) Infilthy_01 (Infidel_01)
10) Trojan Donkey (Trojan Horse) (Trojan)
11) Real Pest (Realist) (Pragmatist - Fagmatist)
12) (Sunshine)
13) (antineoETC)
14) kenmomez (kenmirzz)
15) Charles_Mental (Charles_Martel)
16) Lets Lie (letstalk - Rajesh)
17) LSD (LCD)
18) Bin Weshkah (bin lyin)
19) Fartassia (Natassia)
20) Spin (Sten)
21) Cunteur (Centeur)
22) debunked (debunker - iffo)
23) pr126

What does it mean?

It means he's an idiot.

[Eagle]

This means the night journey should be completely null and void

The night journey is mentionned in the Quran

and therefore there are no prayer recommendations.

Countless verses stress the importance of this daily, timed ordinance

How many times per day do you pray?

5 times, it is in the Quran

How do you pray??

It is partly explained in the Quran, and for the most part detailed in the oral sunna we inherited from our fathers. Not one Muslim learns to pray or fast using hadith books. Oral sunna is not equal to hadith, there are countless hadiths that do not contain any sunna. Numerous Muslim hypocrites (munafiqeen) whom the Quran repeatedly condemns and warns against lived among the Muslims and were hardly detectable. They were constantly on the lookout to harm the prophet and the Muslim comunity, giving vital informations to their allies or spreading false rumors. They were the ones who murdered the prophet's progeny shortly after his death.

Other sources of corruption came from the various early Islamic sects seeking to produce documentary evidence in favour of their views, forgeries by people with good intentions in order to admonish sinners and promote piety, tribal and regional prejudices and rivalries, personal ambition, differences among jurists prompting some scholars to fabricate traditions to support their own legal positions, story-tellers and reciters of fables attaching their rich imagination to the narrations, inclusion of Jewish myths (israeilyyat) stimulated by the popular sense of curiosity in the lives and times of former prophets. These israeilyyat were mainly written by the early converts from the people of the book. They are an amalgam of truth and falsehood. Some other Muslims became influenced by non-Muslims and their scriptures, implementing non-Muslim standards and customs as Islamic traditions with no relation to the Quran (for example the biblical punishement of stoning the adulter), true traditions of the Prophet or Islamic philosophy.

Where do you get these ideas from?? Certainly not the Quran. So you even practice double standards on yourself. You even lie to yourself...Because he's a Muslim. They know how to lie to themselves. It's an uncanny ability that they all seem to have. Weird...But burying the hadiths really does very little good considering that the Quran told us that one day, the sky will tear open because IT will be flimsy. It says THE sky (singular), not all things in the sky, will tear open because IT will be flimsy.

You repeat the same convoluted arguments, but what is most noticable in your case is your complex and paranoia towards Islam and Muslims. Maybe you are just lonely and in need of attention, you should go out more.

See this viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6093

[skynightblaze]

Of course, for the most part, the hadiths were accurate or as best as people could recall, and they do indeed give us insight into what sort of man Muhammad was. Why would people make up such negative things like assassinations, caravan robbing, and a taste or preference for little girls?? Besides, look at how religious (scared) these people were about going to hell. Do you think they would purposefully invent bogus stories about Muhammad thereby guaranteeing them a place in hell???? Of course not. These people wouldn't do that, they were scared to death by the Quran.

To add to this these people were ready to sacrifice their lives for muhammad and Allah and quran praises such people .One can hardly believe that people who wanted to sacrifice their lives for their prophet would go further to lie about him so much.Its almost impossible to believe that.There are bound to be contradictions in the hadiths because the people during muhammads time were not scholars so we cant expect them to get everything dead right but todays modern muslims who want to preserve their faith utilize this shortcoming to discard entire set of hadiths .Ofcourse some of the hadith can be false but not all especially the ones that show muhammad in negative light as you said like robbing,raping ,looting,paedophilia etc etc. This is nothing but an attempt to whitewash muhammad of all the sins that he committed.

WE dont need all the hadiths to be correct. If we collect all the nasty quotes from the sira and all the hadiths it would round upto atleast 100 and even if one of them is true islam loses hopelessly. All we need is 1 hadith out of so many nasty hadiths to be true and game is over for islam because of the extraordinary claims that it makes i,e it being from God.

There is only one reason why Muslims now try to bury the hadiths, and it's because they are incredibly embarrassing in the 21st century and these particular Muslims have at least a small amount of common sense and know that they cannot remain Muslims if the hadiths were true. So there is hope for these particular Muslims. There's a little tiny spot of rational thinking somewhere in there.

Till date none could criticize islam openly because they would be killed so none dared to criticize islam but with the advent of internet muslims cant stop the kafirs up so now the hadiths which were reliable hadiths for centuries have to become unreliable.I think islam is adjusted with the need of time to maintain its authenticity. I have never seen people inventing such kind of wildest of excuses .Islam has very little depth but muslims try to give it a depth of an ocean.

[skynightblaze]

5 times, it is in the Quran

Where ? Which verse tells us that you are supposed to pray 5 times?

It is partly explained in the Quran, and for the most part detailed in the oral sunna we inherited from our fathers. Not one Muslim learns to pray or fast using hadith books. Oral sunna is not equal to hadith, there are countless hadiths that do not contain any sunna.

Oral sunna is same as the written hadith especially in this case so if you accept the oral sunna then so should you accept the written hadiths which convey the sunna.

Numerous Muslim hypocrites (munafiqeen) whom the Quran repeatedly condemns and warns against lived among the Muslims and were hardly detectable. They were constantly on the lookout to harm the prophet and the Muslim comunity, giving vital informations to their allies or spreading false rumors. They were the ones who murdered the prophet's progeny shortly after his death.

If Allah was all knowing how come they werent detected?

Post here the names of frauds that you think and the reasons for they being fraud( i mean how come you arrived at that conclusion) and also tell us how many hadiths did they narrate.ITs only then your argument would have any weight otherwise its nothing but a pile of sh!t thrown at the wall with the hope that it would stick to the wall.

Other sources of corruption came from the various early Islamic sects seeking to produce documentary evidence in favour of their views, forgeries by people with good intentions in order to admonish sinners and promote piety, tribal and regional prejudices and rivalries, personal ambition, differences among jurists prompting some scholars to fabricate traditions to support their own legal positions, story-tellers and reciters of fables attaching their rich imagination to the narrations, inclusion of Jewish myths (israeilyyat) stimulated by the popular sense of curiosity in the lives and times of former prophets. These israeilyyat were mainly written by the early converts from the people of the book. They are an amalgam of truth and falsehood. Some other Muslims became influenced by non-Muslims and their scriptures, implementing non-Muslim standards and customs as Islamic traditions with no relation to the Quran (for example the biblical punishement of stoning the adulter), true traditions of the Prophet or Islamic philosophy.

AS I said previously to MBL. We dont need 100's of nasty quotes from the hadiths or sira to be true. All we need is 1 quote among them to be true to expose your fraud prophet. Btw how come the true companions never opposed these liars? How come only lies propogate throughout the hadith?

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

This means the night journey should be completely null and void

The night journey is mentionned in the Quran

17:1 (Y. Ali) Glory to ((Allah)) Who did take His servant for a journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque,

So it says he made a journey. So what does that mean on it's own?? Absolutely nothing. He took a journey. That's all it says

How about the white horse?? How about the prayer frequency?? The verse is absolutely meaningless without the hadiths or other additional writings. And THAT was the point of raising it.

and therefore there are no prayer recommendations.

Countless verses stress the importance of this daily, timed ordinance

Show me one that says 5 times. We both know that 5 comes from that ridiculous night journey story. Quit tap dancing. You're digusting.

How many times per day do you pray?

5 times, it is in the Quran

There isn't one single verse in the Quran that says 5 times. If there was, you would have merely quoted it. So you lie once again. How come every time you answer something, there is always at least one lie to it? Don't you feel any sense of shame to have to resort to things like this? Doesn't it bother you at all to continually get caught lying?? I guess not.

How do you pray??

It is partly explained in the Quran, and for the most part detailed in the oral sunna we inherited from our fathers. Not one Muslim learns to pray or fast using hadith books. Oral sunna is not equal to hadith, there are countless hadiths that do not contain any sunna. Numerous Muslim hypocrites (munafiqeen) whom the Quran repeatedly condemns and warns against lived among the Muslims and were hardly detectable. They were constantly on the lookout to harm the prophet and the Muslim comunity, giving vital informations to their allies or spreading false rumors. They were the ones who murdered the prophet's progeny shortly after his death.

Other sources of corruption came from the various early Islamic sects seeking to produce documentary evidence in favour of their views,

Objective, historical citations for all of this please??

forgeries by people with good intentions in order to admonish sinners and promote piety, tribal and regional prejudices and rivalries, personal ambition, differences among jurists prompting some scholars to fabricate traditions to support their own legal positions, story-tellers and reciters of fables attaching their rich imagination to the narrations, inclusion of Jewish myths (israeilyyat) stimulated by the popular sense of curiosity in the lives and times of former prophets.

Objective, historical citations for all of this please??

These israeilyyat were mainly written by the early converts from the people of the book. They are an amalgam of truth and falsehood. Some other Muslims became influenced by non-Muslims and their scriptures, implementing non-Muslim standards and customs as Islamic traditions with no relation to the Quran (for example the biblical punishement of stoning the adulter), true traditions of the Prophet or Islamic philosophy.

Objective, historical citations for all of this please??

Where do you get these ideas from?? Certainly not the Quran. So you even practice double standards on yourself. You even lie to yourself...Because he's a Muslim. They know how to lie to themselves. It's an uncanny ability that they all seem to have. Weird...But burying the hadiths really does very little good considering that the Quran told us that one day, the sky will tear open because IT will be flimsy. It says THE sky (singular), not all things in the sky, will tear open because IT will be flimsy.

You repeat the same convoluted arguments, but what is most noticable in your case is your complex and paranoia towards Islam and Muslims. Maybe you are just lonely and in need of attention, you should go out more.

Thanks for telling me you don't have an answer, because that's what you really just said, and everybody else sees that as well.IT will be flimsy, not all things in the sky will be flimsy, the sky itself, IT will be flimsy and tear open. And you tried your stupid lying little tap dance on this issue before and you failed miserably to where you had to fall silent and then you come back a few months later and act as if it never happened. Well, i don't forget, and neither do others here. You keep thinking people are as gullible and stupid as perhaps you are.

See this viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6093

Yes, and every single thing you tried there was refuted until you fell silent. That's the way that thread currently stands. So why would you raise this as though you sufficiently answered it?? You didn't, and I didn't just make the claim that you failed, I explained exactly why in letter for letter detail and eventually, you ran out of answers. THAT'S what happened there and it's all in writing for anybody and everybody to review. What is the matter with your ability to reason properly??