Faith Freedom International

The Cat wrote:About the hamza, you're only showing your own ignorance of the Classical Arabic in which the koran was first written

Do you know classical Arabic?

If not then lecturing someone about the language you dont know is a little bit...silly.

I hope you dont rely on wikipedia - as for the Arabic language it is so unreliable - there is a guy named dhimmi no more on Daniel Pipes blog- he knows Arabic really well and is a kafir- you can ask him about it...

Here is one of his post:

Now we need to talk about the ignorant tablighees and ignorant Arabs who tell us that the word Allah is really a contaction of the word al-Ilah or the God.

But wait: I'm sure you agree with me that;
1. The word Allah means: God it does not mean THE GOD. Therefore I must conclude that the word Allah cannot be a contaction of the word al-Ilah

2. And if it is indeed a contraction how come Muslims still and never stopped using the word al-Ilah?

3. And why is the contraction as there is no need for it.

4. the word al-Rabb or the God (and no it does not mean the Lord as the word the Lord means al-Sayyid) is vocalized as aRab as we drop the lam as it is lam shamsiya and if we can contract it then why we can only write it as: al-Rabb? you did not get this one. Did you?

5. In compound Arabic names like Whb'lh or Wahb Allah (see Payne Smith Thesaurus Syriacus) the name would be: Gift of God and not "the gift of the God" which clealy means that the word Allah is such names means God and not the God.

So much for the bogus claim by Muslims that the word Allah is a contraction of the word al-Ilah

Stay tuned for more educated guess and not proof.

And asking for proof: could you provide us with the proof that your Allah spoke to muhammad albeit via an angel. Solid real proof. ...

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/105142" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KufirbintKufr wrote:Now we need to talk about the ignorant tablighees and ignorant Arabs who tell us that the word Allah is really a contaction of the word al-Ilah or the God.

I fully agree that Allah can't be a 'contaction' of Al-Ilah!
So I stay tuned for more 'educated guess'...

The Cat wrote:

KufirbintKufr wrote:Now we need to talk about the ignorant tablighees and ignorant Arabs who tell us that the word Allah is really a contaction of the word al-Ilah or the God.

I fully agree that Allah can't be a 'contaction' of Al-Ilah!
So I stay tuned for more 'educated guess'...

I read it as: I have nothing to say ad rem...

I didnt wrote the post but dhimmi no more from Daniel Pipes blog who knows Arabic and does not read about it from wikipedia...

You deny the opinion of two native Arabic speakers and one guy who knows Arabic...
If you do not know the language that is really ignorant behaviour...

KufirbintKufr wrote:

The Cat wrote:

KufirbintKufr wrote:Now we need to talk about the ignorant tablighees and ignorant Arabs who tell us that the word Allah is really a contaction of the word al-Ilah or the God.

I fully agree that Allah can't be a 'contaction' of Al-Ilah!
So I stay tuned for more 'educated guess'...

You deny the opinion of two native Arabic speakers and one guy who knows Arabic...
If you do not know the language that is really ignorant behaviour...

You're only cherry-picking your sources, according to your wishes...
viewtopic.php?p=96462#p96462" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=96634#p96634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=98665#p98665" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do Malaysian Muslims understand what Allah means?
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/fe ... lah_means/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How do we translate the shahadah, or the Bismillah?
-There is no god but God (and not: There is no god but Allah).
-In the name of God (and not: In the name of Allah).

By contracting Al-Ilah (The God) it became Allah (God), but with a Capital marking a strict opposition to god, or gods).

In surah 87.1 we read Al-A'la translated 'the most high' which is one of His 99 names. A cognate of the Syriac Alaha & biblical El-Elyon.

KufirbintKufr wrote:

The Cat wrote:About the hamza, you're only showing your own ignorance of the Classical Arabic in which the koran was first written

Do you know classical Arabic?

If not then lecturing someone about the language you dont know is a little bit...silly.

Not silly, rather deceitful

KufirbintKufr wrote: I hope you dont rely on wikipedia - as for the Arabic language it is so unreliable

And who is the bum who is suggesting that the Arabuc language is unreliable?

There is no language that can be classified as unreliable, this is just insane

KufirbintKufr wrote: - there is a guy named dhimmi no more on Daniel Pipes blog- he knows Arabic really well and is a kafir- you can ask him about it...

Bring him here to debate me if he wishes

KufirbintKufr wrote:Here is one of his post:

Now we need to talk about the ignorant tablighees and ignorant Arabs who tell us that the word Allah is really a contaction of the word al-Ilah or the God.

But wait: I'm sure you agree with me that;
1. The word Allah means: God it does not mean THE GOD.

The word Allah is a unique name that has nothing to do with nouns that starts with AL

for example, the Arabic device Li which is one letter that is called Harf Jarr, when it comes before any noun that has the definite article Al, then the Alif in Al must be removed

for example:

The Arabic word: العالمين, Al-Alameen, i.e. The worlds, which is a combination of of ال + عالمين, when Li is attached to it at the beginning of the word, then the Alif in Al must be removed, i.e. للعالمين, Lilalameen, i.e. for the the worlds, THIS IS THE CASE WITH ANY ARABIC WORD THAT HAS THE DEFINITE ARTICLE AL

But when we use the same device Li before the name الله, Allah, i.e. Allah, then both first letters in Allah Al must be removed, i.e. لله, Lilah, i.e. For Allah, THIS MUST MEAN THAT THE FIRST TWO LETTERS IN THE NAME ALLAH cannot be the definite article AL.

KufirbintKufr wrote:Therefore I must conclude that the word Allah cannot be a contaction of the word al-Ilah

Of course, in addition to what I said above, the arabic word Al-Ilah is a proper word that is used to refer generically to any god, regardless being real or man made

If Allah is the combination of Al+ilah, then the Arabic word Al-Ilah should have never existed in Arabic

As well, you should see all those confused bums who allege that Allah is the combination of Al+Ilah unable to explain to us why the first letter in Ilah is removed when the definite article Al is added to the word Ilah? They will never be able to answer this question

KufirbintKufr wrote:2. And if it is indeed a contraction how come Muslims still and never stopped using the word al-Ilah?

Exactly, SPOT ON

this guy not only knows Arabic but he is smart too

KufirbintKufr wrote:3. And why is the contraction as there is no need for it.

Another fukin good point, bring that guy in here to slam dunk Pussy Cat so he realizes how fool he is making of himself by copying the crap of the freak minders in here without even using his pinhead to qualify it.

KufirbintKufr wrote:4. the word al-Rabb or the God (and no it does not mean the Lord as the word the Lord means al-Sayyid) is vocalized as aRab as we drop the lam as it is lam shamsiya

We do not drop the lam in A-Rab when we write it, ONLY DROPPED WHEN WE PRONOUNCE IT, i.e. when you write A-Rab, YOU MUST WRITE THE LAM, however if you still pronounced the lam, i.e Al-Rab, it is still valid pronunciation, it will be be harder on the tongue, but if you can handle pronouncing it with Lam then that should be very fine btw

KufirbintKufr wrote: and if we can contract it then why we can only write it as: al-Rabb? you did not get this one. Did you?

Exactly

However I disagree with him the the word Al-Rab means The God, as the word Al-Rab may be used to refer to a leader of a pack, like Rab Al-Ossrah, i.e. the Lord of the family, sort of, the man of the family, i.e. the father in the family. but it will never be used with the definite article AL to refer to a human, in that case it must refer to the one and only God, so he is sort of right and wrong, right in saying that Al-Rab should refer to the God, and he is wrong by saying that the word Rab only means God.

KufirbintKufr wrote:5. In compound Arabic names like Whb'lh or Wahb Allah (see Payne Smith Thesaurus Syriacus) the name would be: Gift of God and not "the gift of the God" which clealy means that the word Allah is such names means God and not the God.

Wrong, firstly it should be Hibah Allah, i.e. Gift of Allah, names in Arabic cannot be translated

KufirbintKufr wrote:So much for the bogus claim by Muslims that the word Allah is a contraction of the word al-Ilah

Any Muslim who claims so must be a clear cut Ignorant

KufirbintKufr wrote:Stay tuned for more educated guess and not proof.

And asking for proof: could you provide us with the proof that your Allah spoke to muhammad albeit via an angel. Solid real proof. ...

[/quote]

Time for the typical kafir crap

No we cannot, WE ONLY BELIEVE THAT ALLAH SPOKE TO MUHAMMED VIA AN ANGEL

If we can prove it to you beyond an atom weight of doubt then you will have no option but to submit to Allah because in that case you should be assured that your refuge will be hell, which defies the purpose of testing, therefore BELIEF cannot be proven, otherwise it will be A FACT, and as we know well that no one will be able to deny FACTS

Salam

AhmedBahgat wrote:And who is the bum who is suggesting that the Arabuc language is unreliable?

There is no language that can be classified as unreliable, this is just insane

What I meant was that the wikipedia is unreliable not the Arabic language...Sorry for my English...

AhmedBahgat wrote:The word Allah is a unique name that has nothing to do with nouns that starts with AL...

AhmedBahgat wrote:the word Al-Rab may be used to refer to a leader of a pack, like Rab Al-Ossrah, i.e. the Lord of the family, sort of, the man of the family, i.e. the father in the family. but it will never be used with the definite article AL to refer to a human, in that case it must refer to the one and only God, so he is sort of right and wrong, right in saying that Al-Rab should refer to the God, and he is wrong by saying that the word Rab only means God.

Let no irony be lost :lol1:

AhmedBahgat wrote:in addition to what I said above, the arabic word Al-Ilah is a proper word that is used to refer generically to any god, regardless being real or man made. If Allah is the combination of Al+ilah, then the Arabic word Al-Ilah should have never existed in Arabic

As well, you should see all those confused bums who allege that Allah is the combination of Al+Ilah unable to explain to us why the first letter in Ilah is removed when the definite article Al is added to the word Ilah? They will never be able to answer this question

Again, your knowledge is way too limited both linguistically and historically to understand anything past your blinders. See:
viewtopic.php?p=98775#p98775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/arabic_to_eng ... _llah.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Allah, from Arabic to English, by Fuad Yahya:

Arabic, Aramaic, and Hebrew cognates seem to derive from an ancient root, possibly pronounced EL, and thought to signify power. ALLAH is the Arabic term that refers to the Jewish-Christian-Muslim notion of God (with a capital G). The word is used in the Arabic versions of the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Qur’an.....The Arabic Old Testaments, use the word ALLAH wherever the Hebrew version uses Eloh or Elohim, provided the reference is clearly to the God of the Bible.

For instance, Genisis 1:1 states:
في البدء خلق الله السموات والأرض

Likewise, in the New Testament, John 1:1 reads:
في البدء كان الكلمة والكلمة كان عند الله وكان الكلمة الله

The Qur’an is consistent with the same tradition, as in the BASMALA:
بسـم الله الرحـمن الرحيم

It is important to note that although ALLAH is used in reference to a unique being (and as such may be called a “name” or a “proper noun”), it is not a name in the sense that Dick and Harry are names..... In a loosely analogous way, one can give a distinguishing name to a planet, like Venus, since there are so many planets, but not to the sky, since there is only one.........

Muslims, especially in the Indian subcontinent, borrowed the style of writing about Islam in English from English Orientalists. They particularly bought the notion that when writing about Islam in English, one should use the term ALLAH. This practice spread throughout the Muslim world, and continues to be followed today by many Muslims, giving rise to the bizarre idea that ALLAH is the “name” of the Muslim deity. As should be amply clear, ALLAH is Arabic, just as “God” is English, and “Gott” is German. ALLAH is no more Muslim than “God” is Christian or Jewish.

Let's say I concede on this. Now, do you only realize that by taking out its universality you put Allah on par with Allat,
Zeus, Humbaba and the Flying Spaghetti! That the whole operation transform Allah into Muhammad's idol, going against
the very message of your Holy Book! So go ahead and shirk heartfully. You might as well worship 'Bob' as any Robert!

If you consider Allah as a proper name then, that Arabic tribal divinity has indeed three daughters and Muslims have no more ground
to refute this. Allah, by the necessity of its proper name, become linguistically associated with Allat, nothing lest! Now deal with it!

Your 'Allah', as a proper name, is no more the Koranic Allah and, of necessity, to be associated with Hubal as another proper name
and not with Ha-Baal, which is simply a recognized generic for 'Lord'. By way of consequences, all Christian bibles must therefore be
edited to rule out 'Allah' as a universal generic for God and the Turkish people must also expurgate 'Tanri' as a Turkish equivalent...

I could go for that: it becomes Muslims' HUGE problem. Not mine... There are some fatwas lost.

Keeping on digging about Pre-Islamic Allah...
See 'Kaus is Allah' an Edomite stele dated 750BC (in the time of Tiglath-pileser III)
viewtopic.php?p=96161#p96161" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=98775#p98775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Zebed (Zabad) inscription...
A tri-lingual Greek, Syriac, and Arabic inscription in Zabad (or "Zebed) dated to 512 in Aleppo states "With the help of God (الاله)!
Sergius, son of Amat Manaf, and Tobi, son of Imru'l-qais and Sergius, son of Sa‘d, and Sitr, and Shouraih." الاله or al-Ilah, becomes
the word الله "Allah" when it is elided. Such elision is a common feature of many languages around the world, not just Arabic. So it
would appear that the use of the name "ilah" together with the definite article "al", does in fact exist among Christians from BEFORE
the advent of Islam. This inscription is said to be the oldest with some 6 proto-Arabic alphabet (i.e. not Nabataean). The text covers
a lintel over the door to the martyrion of St. Serge. This is the oldest inscription with a nascent truly Arabic alphabet (512AD).

The map is showing where the bulk of pre-Islamic inscriptions were found... Ula being its southernmost place.
Notice the nearby Mada'in Saleh (Hijr or Hegra). I do think it's the name at the origin of Muhammad's Hegira!

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... c_alphabet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Koranic Al-A'la and Al-Ali(yy)
I've been searching for Al-A'la, the titled god of surah 87.1 and 87.7 (chr.8th) and I stand somehow confused since its meaning
of 'The Most High' is also shared by Al-Aliyy (i.e. either meaning the Sublime or the Highest), found in 4.34; 2.255; 31.30; 42.4
and 42.51. I'm not sure at this time if they must be understood as one and the same, or different. In wikipedia, Al-Aliyy is at #36
but surah 87 (where Al-A'la is found) isn't mentioned, so is Al-A'la! Below, both of them are mentioned separately, al-Aliyy at #5,
and Al-A'la at #11 right before Al-Allam. At #37, we also find Al-Ilah! This is a well known phenomenon of syncretic incorporation.
http://dawnoftheummah.webs.com/99namesofallahswt.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_G ... e_Qur%27an" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously, Muslims scholars are still perplexed about those 99 names, probably because it's coming out of ahadith! This shows, again,
their confusion since there are many more than 99 attributes mentioned in the Koran alone. But those above are of much importance.
Both Al-A'la and Al-Aliyy, from their names and attributes, must be related to the Ugaritic Aliyin, the resurrecting principle of... Baal.
The root of this name is even find in Q.83.18 as 'Illiyin' the keeper of the good deeds. It reflects the Samaritan wording for El-Elyon:
Illiyon. Bukhari has Ilya as a name for Jerusalem. El-Elyon being the god of Melchizedek in Gen.14 related to Jesus in Hebrews 5.5-6!
In the Ugaritic account, Aliyin is the one who killed Mot, the principle of death. As such he became the One victorious over Death...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Hittite Alalu...
But we can go much way back in the past, in the Hittite mythology where the Tablet of Alalu (2050BC) is describing this divinity,
pretty much akin to the Greek Ouranos and his son Kumarbi (Kronos). Finally, just like in the Hesiod Theogony, Teshub (Zeus),
the Storm-god, comes out victorious. Alalu could be written with different assortment of vowels like the Hebrew Elul which, same
as in Assyria and Turkey, indicates our solar period August/September. A month of repentance and spiritual introspection. Now,
Eylül is also the name for September in Turkish; it could very well derived from the Arabic : أيلول‎ 'Aylūl, used in the Levant. It was
also used in Akkadian, in the form elūlu (which could be read Alala as well). It was then like our harvest thanksgiving...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elul" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On the Hittite Alalu
http://www.bukisa.com/articles/153582_t ... -god-alalu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, we can say that Alalu was symbolizing the barren winter months, featured as the underworld,
while An was reigning in the fertile spring and summer, figured as Heaven in most mythologies. Later,
for the Achaemenids, Alalu became mostly associated with their harvest thanksgiving and greetings.

The Cylinder of King Cyrus... and Alalu

http://www.thestarofthemagi.com/cyrusandbabylonii.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From a verse account of the acts of Nabonidus and Cyrus....: ''[As to Nabonidus:] law and order are not promulgated by him, he made perish the common people through want, the nobles he killed in war, for the trader he blocked the road. For the farmer he made rare the [unintelligible], there is no [lacuna], the harvester does not sing the alalu-song any more, he does not fence in any more the arable territory.

We know that Nabonidus fled to Tayma (Arabia) for about ten years, certainly bringing his god Sin. One thing on his cylinder could be
the key to the Arabic perplexing As-Samad (Q.112.2). He wrote: ''O Samas, judge of the Heaven and Underworld, light of the gods''...

Babylon...
Finally, the root L stands as part of the name Babylon (BbL), sometimes as Bab-Ilu singular, or Bab-Ilanu, plural: The Gate of the God(s).
As for Enlil, the original Sumerian/Akkadian god for this root of IL/ILU, he simply got incorporated into Marduk, among many others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marduk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Babylon (Akkadian: Babilu, Aramaic: ܒܵܐܒܸܠ or ܒܐܒܠ‎, Arabic: بابل‎).... The form Babylon is the Greek variant of Akkadian Babilu
(bāb-ilû, meaning "Gateway of the god(s)", translating Sumerian Ka.dingir.ra).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingir" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One important completing note would be to mention that Ba'al was also known as Ba'alah and Ba'alat... !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%27al" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KufirbintKufr wrote:there is a guy named dhimmi no more on Daniel Pipes blog- he knows Arabic really well and is a kafir- you can ask him about it...

Here is one of his post: Now we need to talk about the ignorant tablighees and ignorant Arabs who tell us that the word Allah is really a contaction of the word al-Ilah or the God.

But wait: I'm sure you agree with me that;
1. The word Allah means: God it does not mean THE GOD. Therefore I must conclude that the word Allah cannot be a contaction of the word al-Ilah
2. And if it is indeed a contraction how come Muslims still and never stopped using the word al-Ilah?
3. And why is the contraction as there is no need for it.
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/105142" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What a bunch of unsubstantiated remarks, completely missing the English difference between 'god' and 'God', ilah and Al-Ilah! Refuted by...

More Logical fallacies (and very poorly written English) from Dhimmi.
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/121747" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
''You keep asking why I am making a point about the relationship of the names of God in Semitic languages- I've made my point very clear in
my post. Please respond to my points, rather than respond as though I never made one (another form of "Straw man"- you are obviously
harvesting a field of straw to post here!). Or is your VERY POOR knowledge of English preventing you from seeing that?''

This 'zzazzeefrazzee' then comes up with some major references to refute this poor 'dhimmi no more'.

C. Rabin. in his entry "Arabiyya", in "Encyclopedie de l'Islam", 2nd ed.,I (Leiden et Paris, 1960, pp.579a-622b), suggests that Northern Arabic
characters used by the Quran were created by the Chistian Missionaries of Hira, centuries before Islam. A tri-lingual Greek, Syriac, and Arabic
inscription in Zebed dated to 512 in Aleppo states "With the help of God (الاله)! Sergius, son of Amat Manaf, and Tobi, son of Imru'l-qais and
Sergius, son of Sa‘d, and Sitr, and Shouraih."

(Giving three major references for the above): ''Now, are you seriously going to tell me that الاله is not the same as الّله ? (...) All you are
telling me is that people now have a personal preference to not use the word- obviously due to their own arrogance of historical precedent.
Furthermore, is your anecdotal information somehow verifiable? Could you even begin to fathom that I know a fair number of Arab
Christianspersonally that have no problem with using the word like you seem to have. Why? Because they know that the use of the word is
simply an elision of "al-Ilah" which has been proven to have been used by Christians in the period before Islam.''

And this blogger ends up his argument with yet another major reference, that of MacDonald, D.B. "Ilāh." Encyclopaedia of Islam. Edited by:
P. Bearman; Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth , E. van Donzel and W.P. Heinrichs. Brill, 2008. (Note: I've skipped some too scholarly references).

Ilāh
(a.), pl. āliha, "deity", appears in pre-Islamic poetry (see, e.g., F. Bustānī , al-Mad̲j̲ānī al-ḥadīt̲h̲a , i, index) as an impersonal divine name, although preceded by the article; for the Christians and (so far as the poetry ascribed to them is authentic) the monotheists, al- ilāh evidently means God; for the other poets it means merely "the one who is worshipped", so that al-ilāh indicates: "the god already mentioned" (the article being used li 'l-ʿahd) or "the god of whom the poet is thinking", and this use has survived to the present day (ʿAbd al- Ilāh); but ilāh without the article seems to have been used only in the Islamic period to indicate a specific deity.

By frequency of usage, al-ilāh was contracted to Allāh , frequently attested in pre-Islamic poetry (where this name cannot in every case have been substituted for another), and then became a proper name ( ism ʿalam ). But whilst the form al-ilāh is not found in the Ḳurʾān , allāh seems in some cases to have preserved the same meaning: thus (VI, 3) wa-huwa 'l-lāhu fi 'l-samawāti "and he is the deity in the heavens", and in XXVIII, 70, huwa 'l-lāhu 'l-lad̲h̲ī lā ilāha illā huwa, "he is the deity other than whom there is no deity", in which the juxtaposition of allāh/ilāh is noteworthy.

Thing is that Al-Ilah is written in Q.21.108! Just like Al-A'la (found in sura 87) and Al-Aliyy (4.34; 2.255, etc).

Next, I'll conclude on this first part of observations based on the deception of the Koranic 'proper names':
The Koran itself stating that it's not intended to be -'The Koran'- but rather 'a koran' for Arabic purpose.
Just like using Allah as a proper name, using such a koran as 'The Koran' implies SHIRK and blasphemy !

Muslims aren't yet out of the idolatrous hell created by their mullahs and imams to crush them...

Cartoon: http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/2003_07.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reading through all this, there is somthing quite strange about AB's apparent insistence that "Allah" is a proper name. We give names to people to make it easy to distinguish one from the other. So, who does this "Allah" have to be distinguished from? What are the other gods? If there is only one God, it makes no sense for him/her/it to have a name. The Jewish God replied when asked for his name "I AM WHO I AM".

So, the very insistence that Allah is a proper name contradicts Islam's apparent teaching about the one-ness of their god. If he needs a name, there there must be others like him.

In practice,I think, this issue is much simpler than we make out here: Mohammed simply used the term "allah" as his followers were familiar with that. The word probably started off life as a contraction of al-ilah, but by the time Mohammed used it is was used as a term of address, a sort of name, for the chief deity in the Kaaba. Mohammed never had to explain who this allah was, and speaks volumes. The consequences of attributing a proper name to the supposedly only god clearly escaped Mohammed completely, at that is why AB gets in a spin when this issue comes up.

Even names have liguistic roots. All sorts of words end up being used as names at one point or another. It does not even matter what exactly the root of the alleged name "Allah" is: to say that God has a name at all is the same as saying there is more than one god, and old Mo forgot about that one...

manfred wrote:Even names have liguistic roots. All sorts of words end up being used as names at one point or another. It does not even matter what exactly the root of the alleged name "Allah" is: to say that God has a name at all is the same as saying there is more than one god, and old Mo forgot about that one...

Right, but then there is this on-going Malaysian controversy over the name of 'Allah' as having an Islamic imprimatur.

Most unfortunately it is no more just a 'rhetorical' question...

Oh, I forgot about that one ...

So we have medieval Muslims insisting that arabic traslations of biblical texts should use "Allah", and now we have Malaysian Muslims shouting to remove "Allah" from Bahasa translations of biblical texts and put "Tuhan" instead (=God) .

Personally, I think the Malaysian idea is quite a good one. But why can't Muslims make up their minds? Is, according to them, this Allah character equal to the Jewish/Christian God or isn't he? I think a lot of Christians in Malaysia will be quite pleased to be rid of a symbol of Islamic interference.

I think when they like to control and subdue Christians or Jews, they say call God "Allah", but when they feel threatened by them,then "our god is not your god" is the response...

manfred wrote:Personally, I think the Malaysian idea is quite a good one. But why can't Muslims make up their minds? Is, according to them, this Allah character equal to the Jewish/Christian God or isn't he? I think a lot of Christians in Malaysia will be quite pleased to be rid of a symbol of Islamic interference

I think that Christians would be dhimmis to give up on this matter, when they are right both linguistically and historically. Let the
Malaysian Muslims look like the bunch of sectarian bigots they truly are. Let their idolatry be featured in full sunlight. If Allah can't
be 'Tuhan', then he's just a god, not God. The Romans used to say that ''God is too noble a concept to argue and fight over That...''


But... there's a lot more to it! Our understanding of the word 'Muslim' is just as wrong, as we're about to find out...

The Quran's Deceptive Proper Names. Part 2: Muslim.
So far we've seen that the words 'Allah', 'Koran', 'Mecca' (48.24) were not intended as proper names but as common nouns.
In the case of Allah it gave rise to the Malaysian controversy. Above we've seen how -a koran- (or Arabic Lecture) wasn't
intended to be 'The Koran'. In the case of 'Mecca' the fault is that the word found in 48.24 simply was left untranslated so
becoming a proper name by the side, while it really means the Arabic Mkk, which in Classical Arabic meant 'destruction'!

Now, the following article is proving how Jews and Christians, according to the Koran itself, aren't just The People of The Book
(notice the capital) but the former -real- Muslims to look forward to in time of doubts and troubles! It's a long but worthy read!

What does the word 'Muslim' mean? Does the word 'Muslim' only refer to the followers of Mohammad the prophet of Islam? Did Islam begin with Mohammad? The Qur'an provides the answer to these questions.
----Abraham was a Muslim (3.67).
----Jesus' disciples were Muslims (5.111).
----Some of Muhammad's contemporaries were Muslims (28.52-53).
----Muhammad was commanded to be a Muslim (42.52; 10.72; 27.90).

The title of Islam is not new
Some have translated the word 'Muslim' in these previous verses, (Q. 28:52,53 and 5:111) as surrendering to Allah, thus using the word as a verb and not as a noun. However, this translation is inaccurate because it is inconsistent with Q. 22:78 which says: "He hath named you the Muslims heretofore and in this Book" (Rodwell's translation). This verse shows that Allah called the believers 'Muslims' before the Qur'an and also in the Qur'an. (...) The Qur'an says to Mohammad, "If you doubt what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you" (a more accurate translation of Q. 10:94). We know that this command was to be taken seriously, because the rest of the Qur'anic verse warns Mohammad against departing from the previously revealed Truth in the strongest possible language. (...)

According to Q. 6:89-90 if Mohammad was commanded to follow the guidance of the people of the Book, so must all his followers. We have seen that the title 'Muslim' applied to the people of the Book before and during the time of Mohammad. These people carried the traditions and the teachings of Abraham down to the time of Jesus. Some of those people of the Book did not only possess the Book of God, but followed its teachings so much that Mohammad was referred to them for spiritual assurance when he was in doubt concerning the Qur'an. (...)

The Title "The Book" (al-kitab) in the Qur'an
Not only were the people of the Book the first and original Muslims, the book that they possessed is characteristically the original Book. Mohammad never claimed to have received a new book. He claimed that the Qur'an is the Book that was revealed before, that is, the Bible, as the following Qur'anic verse shows: ''Then We gave Moses the Book, complete for him who does good, and distinguishing everything, and as a guidance and a mercy; haply they would believe in the encounter with their Lord. This is a Book We have sent down, blessed; so follow it, and be godfearing; haply so you will find mercy; lest you should say, 'The Book was sent down only upon two parties before us, and we have indeed been heedless of their study'; or lest you should say, 'If the Book had been sent down upon us, we had surely been more rightly guided than they''' (Q. 6:154-157).....

The only difference between the Bible and the Qur'an is that while the Bible was revealed in a language the Arabs did not know, the Qur'an came in the Arabic tongue. This difference is stated in the Qur'an 43:2. So there is an Arabic Qur'an and a non-Arabic Qur'an i.e. the Bible. But that non-Arabic Qur'an was made Arabic so that the Arabs can understand it. Again the Qur'an states: "Yet before it was the Book of Moses for a model (Imam) and a mercy; and this is a Book confirming, in Arabic tongue, to warn the evildoers, and good tidings to the good-doers" (Q. 46:12). Once more, when the Qur'an was described in relation to the Bible, the Qur'an is called a Book but the Bible is called "the Book". According to the above verse the Book of Moses is called the Book the Imam. The Bible is the foundational and original book. (...)

There have been claims that the Book has been corrupted. The Qur'an says, "And to you we have revealed the Book with the truth. It confirms the Scriptures which came before it and stands as a guardian over them" (Q. 5:48). This verse clearly states that the Qur'an was sent to confirm and to guard what had been previously revealed. To claim that the Book has been changed is to also say that the Qur'an did not do what it was sent to achieve. Are we to say that the Qur'an is deficient?

The People of the Book
(Quoting 17.107; 13.43; 16.43) The Remembrance is not the Qur'an. It is the people of the Book who know about the Psalms. According to Q. 21:105, "We have written in the Psalms, after the Remembrance, 'The earth shall be the inheritance of My righteous servants'." The Remembrance is the revealed books before the Psalms. So it cannot be the Qur'an. The people of the Book are also the people of Remembrance. The Galalan commentary says the people of remembrance in that verse are the scholars of the Torah and the Injil.

According to Q. 13:43 the witness of those people is only second to God's witness. Therefore, those who were Muslims before Mohammad and before the Qur'an; those who were the First Muslims, and the men possessed of the knowledge of the Book; these are the original defenders of the true religion and Monotheism. Here is the testimony of the Qur'an concerning these people: ''God bears witness that there is no god but He and the angels, and men possessed of knowledge - upholding justice; there is no god but He, the Al-mighty, the All-wise. The true religion with God is Islam.'' (Q. 3:18,19).......

We read the following about some verses of the Qur'an: "It is He who sent down upon thee the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous" (Q.3:7). In other words, some parts of the Qur'an are clear and precise in meaning, while others are ambiguous. The question is: How much is clear and how much is ambiguous? Ghazaly, who is considered by Muslims as one of the greatest Muslim scholars, said, "The number of the clear verses is 500." While the total number of the verses of the Qur'an is 6616. According to the above, it seems that most of the Qur'an is ambiguous, that is, about 92% of the Qur'an. Therefore the Qur'an commands the followers of Mohammad to ask the People of the Remembrance when they do not know.

From: http://www.answering-islam.org/Mna/muslim.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This means that Jews and Christians could rightfully labeled themselves as 'Muslims', from the Koran! And ask for 'Remembrance'!

This is all in accordance to the very fact that the Koran states Isaac as the ONLY progeny from the 'holy seed' of Abraham (Q.29.27)!
This could be why Allah recognizes Rahman (i.e. the Christian Father) as equivalent in worship (Q.43.45), adding the Jewish Rahim
in the Basmala, which has been known in history way before the appearance of any Koran... In accord with the Medina Constitution.

So the more we dig up the proper names of the Koran, including its very title, Allah & Mecca, the more we learn how corrupted they
became in the hands of their leaders, Mullahs and Imams. We should also note that this accusation of the Bible being corrupted came
out quite late in Islamic history, first in 1064 by Ibn Khazem in Spain. This was to be refuted by such Islamic scholars as Abu Husain
bin Sina (Avicenna, d.1037), al-Ghazali (d.1111), ibn khaldum (d.1406). Later accusations designated the emperor Constantine and
Paul as the chief falsifiers, yet they were living way before Muhammad and the Arabic koran, not after!


In a little while, we'll see some more deceptions from the Koranic so-called proper names...
But as we will check furthermore on terms like 'Islam' and 'Deen', they're all kind of related.

The Quran's Deceptive Proper Names. Part 3: Muslim + Islam, Deen & Sharia
As we've seen above, 'Muslim' has been a mistranlation by considering a common noun as a verb: ''Some have translated the word 'Muslim' in
these previous verses, (Q. 28:52,53 and 5:111) as surrendering to Allah, thus using the word as a verb and not as a noun. However, this
translation is inaccurate because it is inconsistent with Q. 22:78 which says: "He hath named you the Muslims heretofore and in this Book"
(Rodwell's translation).'' It becomes obvious from the Koran itself that Muslims aren't limited to the followers of Muhammad...

The Qur'an describes many Biblical prophets and messengers as Muslim: Adam, Noah (Arabic: Nuh), Moses and Jesus and his apostles. The Qur'an states that these men were Muslims because they submitted to Allah, preached his message and upheld his values. Thus, in Surah 3:52 of the Qur'an, Jesus’ disciples tell Jesus, "We believe in Allah; and you be our witness that we submit and obey (wa ashahadu bil-muslimūna)."

http://www.mohammedislam.info/muslim.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But what about its etymological companion: Islam (SLM)? Is it correct to assume that it comes from the verb aslama, i.e. to surrender?

Etymology: Arabic muslimun is the stem IV participle of the triliteral S-L-M "to be whole, intact". A literal translation would be "one who wants or seeks wholeness", where "wholeness" translates islāmun. In a religious sense, Al-Islām translates to "faith, piety", and Muslim to "one who has (religious) faith or piety". The feminine form of muslimun is muslimatun (Arabic: مسلمة‎)......

(Carl) Ernst writes: "The Arabic term Islam itself was of relatively minor importance in classical theologies based on the Qur'an. If one looks at the works of theologians such as the famous al-Ghazali (d. 1111), the key term of religious identity is not Islam but iman (faith), and the one who possesses it is the mu'min (believer). Faith is one of the major topics of the Qur'an; it is mentioned hundreds of times in the sacred text.

In comparison, Islam is a less common term of secondary importance; it only occurs eight times in the Qur'an. Since, however, the term Islam had a derivative meaning relating to the community of those who have submitted to God, it has taken on a new political significance, especially in recent history."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both terms of 'Muslim' and 'Islam' were unknown until they appeared on the Dome of the Rock. Arabs were named Hagarenes, Saracens or
Mahggraye. Until around the Abbasid (750) and up to John of Damascus, it was solely perceived as a Christian heresy akin to Arianism...
It's very clear to me that this Persian Dome was constructed by Al-Ma'mun, around 830, and not by Al-Malik in 691 as alleged nowadays!
With this dating, 'Islam and 'Muslim' found on its inscriptions become in accordance with history, not a chronological oddity as if by 691.
viewtopic.php?p=94306#p94306" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Checking the root SLM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-L-M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sin-Lam-Mim (Arabic: س ل م‎ S-L-M; Hebrew: שלם‎ Š-L-M; Maltese: S-L-M) is the triconsonantal root of many Semitic words, and many of those words are used as names. The root itself translates as "whole, safe, intact".The word إسلام Islām is a verbal noun derived from s-l-m, meaning "submission" (i.e. entrusting one's wholeness to another), which may be interpreted as humility. "One who submits" is signified by the participle مسلم, Muslim (fem. مسلمة, muslimah).....

The word is given a number of meanings in the Qur'an. In some verses, the quality of Islam as an internal conviction is stressed (Q.6.125, 61.7. 39.22): "Whomsoever God desires to guide, He expands his breast to Islam." Other verses connect islām and dīn (usually translated as "religion"): "Today, I have perfected your religion (dīn) for you; I have completed My blessing upon you; I have approved Islam for your religion." Still others describe Islam as an action of returning to God—more than just a verbal affirmation of faith.

In regard to Arabic, Akkadian roots are axials. Their SLM root means: Salimatu = 'alliance'; Salimu or 'in peace, in accordance';
Shalamu as 'to become safe, whole'. Shluma was a common greeting like the Hebrew 'shalom' related to well-being and health.

Well, so it happened to the wording of 'Islam' which has been translated as coming out from the Arabic verb 'aslama' to become in English a
misguiding proper noun. As a verb it should be understood as 'to aslama' so to surrender, but this is only partially correct, half/true. If not a
verb but a noun, then Al-Islam (really Lil'Islam) must be related to its Semitic root of SLM: Salam, Shlama (Syriac), Hebrew Shalom, Arabic
Salema, Ethiopian Selam: peace be with you. Thus, the verb aslama cannot solely means to surrender. It carries the idea of surrendering
in order to make peace, to come at peace with. Its origin is most obviously from the Samaritan 'Memar Marqah': to be at peace with God.

To understand the Koranic 'Islam' we must see the word in relation with 'Deen', wrongly translated as 'religion', which in Arabic is written
'Muzdhab' and such a word is not found -at all- in the Holy Lecture. If not than it must carry another meaning than the bunch of beliefs
and rituals we usually mean by religion. Islamic scholars tell us that it's rather 'a way of life' and still this generalization is incomplete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An adherent of Islam is a Muslim, meaning "one who submits (to God)". The word Muslim is the active participle of the same verb of which Islām is the infinitive. Muslims regard their religion as the completed and universal version of a monotheistic faith revealed at many times and places before, including, notably, to the prophets Abraham, Moses and Jesus........

The word Islam is a verbal noun originating from the triliteral root s-l-m, and is derived from the Arabic verb Aslama, which means "to accept, surrender or submit." Thus, Islam means acceptance of and submission to God, and believers must demonstrate this by worshiping him, following his commands, and avoiding polytheism. The word is given a number of meanings in the Qur'an. In some verses, the quality of Islam as an internal conviction is stressed: "Whomsoever God desires to guide, He expands his breast to Islam."(61.7; 39.22; 6,125)

If an adherent of Islam is a Muslim, and since the word 'Muslim' included the People of the Book, we must deduce that they are Islamists too!

We simply cannot extract the full meaning of 'Muslim' and 'Islam' without having a deep understanding of the wording 'Deen' (or Din). While
Islam appears only 8 times in the Koran, Deen appears in 79 verses and must be understood as much more fundamental. In the Qur'an, Islam
is always referred to as Dîn. It is the sum total of a Muslim's faith and the code and conduct necessary to submit to Allah's laws.... Inam
Khawaja writing in a newspaper article in July 2005 states: "In the Quran, Islam is always referred to as Din and not as Muzdhab, the
Arabic word for religion. Deen means a complete code of life and is inclusive of religion (Muzdhab)."

Sharia and Fiqh
In reality, the ritualistic Islam isn't set by the wordings 'Deen' or 'Islam' but by the terms 'Sharia' and more specifically by its 'Fiqh', and
even the Koranic 'Sharia' has very little to do, if anything at all, with how you should clean yourself or pray. Sharia in the Koran is only
written once, in 45.18: ''And now have We set thee (O Muhammad) on a clear road of (Our) commandment; so follow it, and follow not the
whims of those who know not.'' This clear road of commandment (singular) is found in 45.16: : ''And verily we gave the Children of Israel
the Scripture and the Command and the Prophethood, and provided them with good things and favoured them above (all) peoples.''

A derivative for Sharia' is in 42.13: ''He hath ordained for you that religion (Deen) which He commended unto Noah, and that which We
inspire in thee (Muhammad), and that which We commended unto Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying: Establish the religion (Deen), and
be not divided therein.'' This is stressed AGAIN in 16.123: ''And afterward We inspired thee (Muhammad, saying): Follow the religion
(Deen) of Abraham, as one by nature upright. He was not of the idolaters.'' The Deen and Sharia of Islam (and of Muslims) are that of
Abraham, Moses and Jesus... NOT the one invented later around Muhammad! Their own prophet was called to follow them -exclusively-!

So, the whole Fiqh tradition runs counter to the Koranic message! It can't be proven from Abraham, Moses or Jesus... How's that! 6.112:
"We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and jinn devils, to inspire in each other fancy sayings, in order to deceive"

25.31: ''Even so have We appointed unto every prophet an opponent from among the guilty; but Allah sufficeth for a Guide and Helper.''

Looks like our nowadays Muslims can't move, pray or talk without adding ways to shirk...

continued from the above post....

Islam in the Koran: 3.19, 3.85; 6.125; 61.6-7; 39.22; 5.3.
Islamakum (your Islam) 49.17; Islammihim (their Islam) 9.74.

5.3: ....'' This day have I perfected your religion (DEEN, Law) for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen
for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.''

Islam is often translated 'The Surrender' like punctuating a military phraseology, yet this is much misguiding when referring to faith.
As committed by Muslims this surrendering without reflections is without any spiritual value and can only apply to robots. It's obvious
to me at least that this can't be the message delivered, if of divine origin. The servitude implies saying: crawl in order to be saved !
We've seen above that this surrendering MUST refers to being at peace with God's by abiding to His Law (singular and universal).

In 5.3 Allah is clearly stating that there's nothing more to be added to this. The deen is the final, perfected, message. So all the ritualistic
Islam, its imperialist religion, comes down to shirk as ''walking on earth exultant''! It's an arrogance condemned in the Koran 17.36-37:
''(O man), follow not that whereof thou hast no knowledge. Lo! the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these it will be
asked. ---And walk not in the earth exultant. Lo! thou canst not rend the earth, nor canst thou stretch to the height of the hills''.
It's thus clearly asking NOT to follow or surrender blindly, like their Imams like to preach. Muslims will be held accountable for this !


We should thus translate 'Islam' not as blind surrender, as the political Islamists are stating, but through Seeing and Understanding, that is
after using our reason. This is clearly underlined in 17:38-39: ''The evil of all that is hateful in the sight of thy Lord''! This is (part) of that
wisdom wherewith thy Lord hath inspired thee (O Muhammad). And set not up with Allah any other god, lest thou be cast into hell.....''

Ihsan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihsan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ihsan (Arabic: احسان), also ehsen, ehsan (persian) or ahsan is an Arabic term meaning "perfection" or "excellence," which is related to the word "goodness" (Ara. husn). It is a matter of taking one's inner faith (iman) and showing it in both deed and action, a sense of social responsibility borne from religious convictions.[1] In Islam, ihsan is the Muslim responsibility to obtain perfection, or excellence, in worship, such that Muslims try to worship God (Arabic Allah) as if they see Him..... Ihsan, meaning "to do beautiful things," is one of the three dimensions of the Islamic religion (Ara. ad-din): islam, iman and ihsan. In contrast to the emphases of islam (what one should do) and iman (why one should do), the concept of ihsan is primarily associated with intention.....

Some Islamic scholars explain ihsan as being the inner dimension of Islam whereas shariah is often described as the outer dimension: ''From the preceding discussion it should be clear that not every Muslim is a man or woman of faith (mu'min), but every person of faith is a muslim. Furthermore, a Muslim who believes in all the principles of Islam may not necessarily be a righteous person, a doer of good (muhsin), but a truly good and righteous person is both a muslim and a true person of faith (Mahmoud M. Ayoub, Islam: Faith and History, p. 54). Ihsan "constitutes the highest form of worship" (ibadah). It is excellence in work and in social interactions.

Ihsan (good intention, in good faith) is written in 16.128 and 29.69:
16:123 And afterward We inspired thee (Muhammad, saying): Follow the religion (Deen) of Abraham, as one by nature upright. He was not
of the idolaters. 16.126-128: If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it
is better for the patient. ---Endure thou patiently (O Muhammad). Thine endurance is only by (the help of) Allah. Grieve not for them, and
be not in distress because of that which they devise. Lo! Allah is with those who keep their duty unto Him and those who are doers of good.

29.68-69: Who doeth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie concerning Allah, or denieth the truth when it cometh unto him? Is not there
a home in hell for disbelievers? ---As for those who strive in Us, We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good.

What's coming out of all this is that 'Deen', 'Islam', 'Ishan' are religious attitudes that do not belong solely to the followers of Muhammad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deen_%28Arabic_term%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dîn (دين, also anglicized as Deen) is an Arabic word usually translated as "religion" but also as "way of life", especially referring to Islam, known as ad-dīn "the deen", or dīn al-haqq "the true deen" (e.g. ayat 48:27, 9:33 = 61:9). It is, however, not exclusive to Islam, as Arab Christians also use it to refer to their religion and religion in general.

The term's etymology is uncertain. There are three possibilities:
* Hebrew-Aramaic דין dīn, meaning "law, justice", in Al-Fatiha appearing as يَوْم الدين yaum ad-dīn "Judgement Day"
* Arabic dāna "debt, obligation"
* Middle Persian dēn "revelation, religion". It should be noted that Modern Persian "dīn" does in fact come from the Middle Persian equivalent, which itself comes from Avestan "daena".

The religious sense for 'Din' seems to come right out from this Persian root, mix with the Jewish sense of abiding to His -Law-.
The Arabic Dana (debt, obligation) isn't by essence related to anything religious. Once again, it originated from somewhere else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daena
Daena is a Zoroastrian concept representing insight and revelation, hence "conscience" or "religion.".... In Zoroastrianism: An Introduction to an Ancient Faith, Peter Clark suggests that the term might also be tied to the Avestan root "di-" to gain understanding......

Daena is somehow affiliated with the reward that the faithful will receive in the afterlife.... Later Avestan writings, such as the Vendidad, describe the concept of Daena further. The Vendidad portrays Daena as something of a psychopomp, guiding good and pure souls to the House of Song, Zoroastrian paradise, while the wicked are dragged to the House of Lies, a place of punishment.

This very concept of 'Deen' seems an Arabic duplicate of the Hindu fundamental concept of 'Dharma' and of the Vedic Rta, but with a sword...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One's righteous duty, or any virtuous path. (...) The word dharma translates as that which upholds or supports, and is generally translated into English as law (Divine, immutable Law, including the karma; one could say The laws of nature regenting physics).....

In the Rigveda, the word appears.... with a range of meanings encompassing "something established or firm" (in the literal sense of prods or poles), figuratively "sustainer, supporter" (of deities), and semantically similar to the Greek ethos ("fixed decree, statute, law")........ In the Rig veda, the belief (or observation) that a natural justice and harmony pervades the natural world becomes manifest in the concept of rta, which is both 'nature's way' and the order implicit in nature. Thus rta bears a resemblance to the ancient Chinese concept of tao and the Heraclitan or stoic conception of the logos.

This "power" that lies behind nature, and which keeps everything in balance became a natural forerunner to the idea of dharma as one can see in this early Vedic prayer. This idea laid the cornerstone of Dharma's implicit attribution to the "ultimate reality" of the surrounding universe, in classical Hindu.

Finally, ending up with the Islamic, sadly ritualistic, interpretation of the Arabic 'Deen' implying to crawl in order to be saved...
Note: Millet is coming from the Arabic Milla: Nation. In the Koran, Millat Ibrahim means the religious community of Abraham...
http://www.wakeup.org/anadolu/02/3/din_quran.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Concepts such as DIN (RELIGION) have been corrupted by their contemporary usage, and moreover, this corruption has become the essence of them. By comparing the contemporary uses with the completeness and consistency of their use in the Qur'an, we can expose the illusion that has been invented to perpetuate the fraud....

See how "DIN" is hooked up to "MILLET"( and to Abraham):
4.125: Who is better in DIN than one who surrendered one's purpose to Allah while doing good and follows the MILLET of Abraham, the
upright, Allah chose Abraham for friend. (...)

22.078: He had chosen you and had not laid upon you in DIN any hardship; the MILLET of your father Abraham. He had named you muslims
of old time and in this (scripture)... (dini-min-haracin=din-with-no-hardship, millet, Abraham, muslimin) (...)

6.162: say: as for me, my Lord had guided me unto a straight path, a right DIN, the MILLET of Abraham, the upright, who was no idolater.
(hedani=guided, sratin-mustakim=straight-path, dinen-kiyemen=right- din, hanif=upright, mushrikin=idolater)

The Koranic core of 'Deen' is adhering to the religious community of Abraham, NOT that of Muhammad!
Otherwise, as following their Fiqh blindly, Muslims are but Mushrikun, and by the billion they duly are...

2:137 ''And if they believe in the like of that which ye believe, then are they rightly guided. But if they turn away,
then are they in schism, and Allah will suffice thee (for defence) against them. He is the Hearer, the Knower.''

72:18: ''And the places of worship are only for Allah, so pray not unto -anyone- along with Allah.''

This becomes tragical when applied to the term 'Mujahidin': those who struggle for the din (of Abraham, not of Muhammad).

Hell has a special place reserved for those who are bowing to beliefs, instead of being vivified by Faith!
In the words of Gandhi: ''What is obtained by hatred proves a burden in reality for it increases hatred.''

The Sharia is Allah's Law alone, not man-made guesses.
In the Koran the term 'Shariah' is explicitly referring to the Law given to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus; the same Law later
revealed to Muhammad, which Muslims are commanded to follow or surrender to (Islam). It's explicit in 42.13 and 45.18, yet in
another derivative: ''Or have they partners who have made lawful for them in religion that which Allah allowed not?'' (42.21).

http://i-cias.com/e.o/sharia.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sharia is often referred to as Islamic law, but this is wrong, as only a small part is irrefutably based upon the core Islamic text, the Koran. Correct designations would be "Muslim Law", "Islam-inspired", "Islam-derived," or even "the law system of Muslims." This is well known to most Muslims, yet Sharia is always referred to as "based upon the Koran", hence it is the "will of God." One sees traces of many non-Muslim juridical systems in the Sharia, such as Old Arab Bedouin law, commercial law from Mecca, agrarian law from Madina, law from the conquered countries, Roman law and Jewish law. Also, calling the Sharia 'law' can be misleading, as Sharia extends beyond law. Sharia is the totality of religious, political, social, domestic and private life.

All this is wrong and contrary to the Koranic sayings in which the Deen and Iman to follow and submit to (thus the Law of Muhammad)
is that of Abraham, i.e. the seven Noachide rulings. What in world is 'The Law of Muhammad' if not that of Abraham, his 'deen', thus
to comply with the Cosmic Order within oneself (i.e. God's Natural Law), so to avoid idolatry at all cost as the ultimate shirk? Now, the
Law of Abraham, the one he followed righteously was that of Noah (Nuh) referring us back to the seven Noachide commandments!

There are two known sets of the Noachide commandments, one is the official Jewish rendition from the Tosefta and Talmud (simple)
1. Prohibition of Idolatry (17.22).
2. Prohibition of Murder (17.33).
3. Prohibition of Theft (17.34).
4. Prohibition of Sexual promiscuity (17.32).
5. Prohibition of Blasphemy (17.23).
6. Not to eat flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive (5.3; 2.173).
7. Requirement to have just Laws (17.35).

But we find another set of rules, in the apocryphal Book of Jubilee (7.20-28), which we know had deeply influenced the nascent Islam:
(1) to observe righteousness, and
(2) to cover the shame of their flesh, and
(3) to bless their Creator, and
(4) honour father and mother, and
(5) love their neighbour, and
(6) guard their souls from fornication and uncleanness
(7) and (guard their souls from) all iniquity.
Ref.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those seven laws are to be found in the koran, sura 17, between verses 22 and 36. They are referred to as being the 'Furkan'
(title of sura 25) as the redemptive knowledge between 'right and wrong' (truth vs vanity). Although Islamic scholars blend
them as to the 'Koran' itself, like the opening surah, many verses indicate that they are indeed separated blessed entities.
Thus the 'seven often repeated verses' are the Noachide Covenant, and are also referred to as 'Messaniy' (15.87 & 39.23).
Furkan (2.53, 185; 21.48; 37.117, 25.1; 3.3; 8.29) and Messaniy are yet again defined in 2.83-84: ''And (remember) when We
made a covenant with the Children of Israel, (saying): Worship none save Allah (only), and be good to parents and to kindred
and to orphans and the needy, and speak kindly to mankind; and establish worship and pay the poor-due. Then, after that,
ye slid back, save a few of you, being averse. ---And when We made with you a covenant (saying): Shed not the blood of your
people nor turn (a party of) your people out of your dwellings. Then ye ratified (Our covenant) and ye were witnesses (thereto).''
It's probably no coincidental that furkan is altogether written... 7 times, matching the seven colored rainbow of God's Covenant!
http://www.wikinoah.org/index.php/Noahi ... e_Qur%27an" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



God's Shariah CAN'T be man-made, added or rewritten, unless shirk!
It's easy to see how the ritualistic Islam diverged from those seven laws, running counter to the DIN of Noah and Abraham!
So THIS WAS the former divine Law Muslims had to surrender to in the original meaning of 'Muslim' and 'Islam'! In 42.13,
42.21, 45.18 and 16.123. So Shariah really meant those seven Laws WILLED to Noah and Moses yet revealed to Muhammad.

On 42.13, where 'Shariah' is fully mentioned (excerpts)
http://www.theholybook.org/content/view/4285/94/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The verse uses the word, will, for the Laws ordained for Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, but it uses the verb, reveal, for the Last Messenger. Will implies strong advice and giving special importance to certain things.... The verse first mentions Prophet Noah, and continues to talk about the Last Messenger, and then the other great Messengers. This is because Prophet Noah, is the first Messenger to whom a comprehensive Law to govern life was willed (see: 33.7)

Preserving and obeying the Law is indispensable for establishing the Religion and preserving it from distortions, changes, and corruptions. The Law has the same meaning for the Religion as the skin has for the human body. The main reason why the Religion lost its originality and purity after the Prophets Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, upon them all be peace, is that people either ignored or neglected the Law, or changed it, or disobeyed it. Negligence of, or disobedience to, the Law is also one of the basic reasons for the internal divisions among the communities of the Messengers after them, and for the deviations witnessed concerning the essentials of faith.

Well, it has been duly corrupted and the term 'Shariah', was extended to all kinds of precepts not found in the Koran. Contrary to
the Muslims' beliefs what they are following isn't the 'usul ad-din' (fundamental teaching) but man-made distortions leading them
to commit shirk, one after another. Laws falsely promulgated in the name of Allah, substituting to His given Law as revealed to
Muhammad, yet willed to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus! In the Koran Shariah -solely- refers to the Law of Allah as His Will.

Another and last derivative for the word Shariah is written in 16.123:
''We inspired thee (Muhammad, saying): Follow the religion of Abraham, as one by nature upright. He was not of the idolaters.''

So in most of their surrenders (Islam) Muslims are deviating from the core teaching of their Holy Book and bow to idolatrous creeds.
They aren't following the Deen and Iman -willed- to Noah and Abraham, but man-made conjectures defaming their righteousness...
Any and ALL ahadiths contradicting the Koran must be hold as such: so they aren't 'Muslims', let alone Mu'min, nor following 'Islam'!

Resuming the above posts...

'Muslims' are committing exponential shirk, trampling the Koranic teachings, whenever they:
1. Use 'Allah' as a proper name indicating a separate divinity instead of a generic for God.
2. State that their Arabic holy book is The Koran, instead of just another blessed al-Kitab.
3. Idolize Arabic when believing it's The language of Heaven, of the angels and of Allah.
4. Subscribe to the ritualistic lies and distortions of 'Maka', 'Kaaba', 'Hajj' and 'Muhammad'.
5. Believe that they are the sole true 'Muslims' while their very Koran states otherwise.
6. Follow a man-made Islam out of a corrupted Din, originally sent to Noah and Abraham.
7. Extend the Koranic term of Shariah to any man-made set of laws from hadiths.

Q,15.87-96:
''We have given thee seven of the oft-repeated (i.e. Noachide 7 Laws) and the great Qur'an. Strain not thine eyes toward that which We
cause some wedded pairs among them to enjoin, and be not grieved on their account, and lower thy wing (in tenderness) for the believers.

And say: Lo! I, even I, am a plain warner, Such as We send down for those who make division, Those who break the Qur'an into parts.
Them, by thy Lord, We shall question, every one, Of what they used to do. So proclaim that which thou art commanded, and withdraw
from the idolaters. Lo! We defend thee from the scoffers, Who set some other god along with Allah. But they will come to know.''

Led astray by their mullahs, they aren't 'Muslims' following the Koranic DIN, but Hell-based Muhammadans !


By idolizing proper names such as 'Allah', 'Koran', 'Arabic' or 'Mecca' and by giving to man-made added distortions over terms like
'Sharia', 'Din' and 'Islam', Muslims aren't worthy of that name... by which they end up idolizing themselves! How's that for shirk!

17.53: ''Tell My bondmen to speak that which is kindlier.
Lo! the devil soweth discord among them. Lo! the devil is for man an open foe.''

The Quran's Deceptive Proper Names. Part 4: The Disbelievers.
The Koranic understanding of 'disbelievers' is mainly concerned with those who create 'mischief in the land' so can hardly aim any otherwise.
The Disbelievers are first of all the hypocrites among Muslims, those who invented lies upon Allah, distorted His saying to build a man-made
sectarian religion (2.137), like imposing a Sharia estranged from the one willed by Allah to the prophets, first of all Noah. They are all those
who pretend to be 'Muslims' while rejecting the teachings of the other blessed al-Kitab, thus breaking the Koran 'into parts' (Q,15.87-96).

The Koranic warnings against such mischievous Arabs:
9.74: They swear by Allah that they said nothing (wrong), yet they did say the word of disbelief, and did disbelieve after their Surrender
(Islamihim). And they purposed that which they could not attain, and they sought revenge only that Allah by His messenger should enrich
them of His bounty. If they repent it will be better for them; and if they turn away, Allah will afflict them with a painful doom in the world
and the Hereafter, and they have no protecting friend nor helper in the earth.

9.75: And of them is he who made a covenant with Allah (saying): If He give us of His bounty we will give alms and become of the righteous.
9.76: Yet when He gave them of His bounty, they hoarded it and turned away, averse;
9.77: So He hath made the consequence (to be) hypocrisy in their hearts until the day when they shall meet Him, because they broke
their word to Allah that they promised Him, and because they lied.

9.97: The wandering Arabs are more hard in disbelief and hypocrisy, and more likely to be ignorant of the limits which Allah hath
revealed unto His messenger. And Allah is Knower, Wise.
9.98: And of the wandering Arabs there is he who taketh that which he expendeth (for the cause of Allah) as a loss, and awaiteth
(evil) turns of fortune for you (that he may be rid of it). The evil turn of fortune will be theirs. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

9.100: And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness (i.e. obeying the Eternal laws willed to Noah, the Din of Abraham as the Law revealed to Muhammad) - Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He hath made ready for them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the supreme triumph.

Looks like those wandering Arabs did spread 'mischief in the land' on an industrial basis. Certainly they aren't emulating the former faith.

Q.39.44-46: Say: Unto Allah belongeth all intercession. His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. And afterward unto Him ye will be brought back. ---And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are repelled, and when those (whom they worship) beside Him are mentioned, behold! they are glad. ---Say: O Allah! Creator of the heavens and the earth! Knower of the Invisible and the Visible! Thou wilt judge between Thy slaves concerning that wherein they used to differ.

10.36-37: Most of them follow not but conjecture. Assuredly conjecture can by no means take the place of truth. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do. ---And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.

Conclusion: the disbelievers aren't first the non-Muslims but those pretending to be Muslims while following any set of schismatic beliefs.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1062" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

73 sects of Islam (by Sahara), starting with Sunnis and Shiites....
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Next: Abraham the Hanif (Haniffiyah), usually translated The Upright (i.e. the Faithful).

The Quran's Deceptive Proper Names. Part 5: Abraham the Hanif.

http://www.abcarticledirectory.com/Article/Hanif/165495" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The word hanif (pl. hunafa) is derived from hanf, meaning an inclination in the forepart of the foot or inversion of the foot. A person having this distortion of the foot is called ahnaf. The singular word hanif occurs 10 times in the Koran (2:135, 3:67, 95; 4:125, 6:79, 161; 10:105, 16:120,123, 30:30), and the plural hunafa two times (22:31, 98:5). It occurs once as a synonym of muslim (3:67) and also in juxtaposition with the verb aslama (4:125)......

The Koranic prototype of the ideal hanif is Abraham: "Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, rather he was a hanif" (3:67). Thus, the hanifiyah was the faith of Abraham. Hanif is therefore one inclining to a right state or tendency. The word is often mentioned in connection not only with the name of Abraham, but the Prophet and his followers are also enjoined to be hanif.....

"And who has a better religion (DIN, faith) than he who submits (aslama/Islam) himself entirely to God? And he is the doer of good and follows the faith of Abraham, the upright (hanif), and God took Abraham as a friend" (4:125), "Surely Abraham was an exemplar, obedient to God, upright (hanif), and he was not of the polytheists" (16:120), and "Say: God has spoken the truth, therefore follow the religion of Abraham, the upright (hanif), and he was not one of the polytheists" (3:95). The Koranic Prophet too, is required to become a hanif by setting his face upright towards the true religion (10:105), and the same demand is also imposed on the rest of the people (22:31, 98:5).

It's quite clear that, according to the Koran itself, Hanif and Islam are almost synonymous when referred as the DIN to be followed:
Q.2.135-137: ''And they say: Be Jews or Christians (or Muslims), then ye will be rightly guided. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Nay, but (we follow) the religion of Abraham, the upright (Hanifa), and he was not of the idolaters. ---Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered (Islam). ---And if they believe in the like of that which ye believe, then are they rightly guided. But if they turn away, then are they in schism, and Allah will suffice thee (for defence) against them. He is the Hearer, the Knower.''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The term has been used synonymously with the term Muslim in reference to a historical Islam, extending upon the belief of Islam being a restoration of the pure monotheistic religion of Abraham - this pure religion Muslims considered to be related to the Jewish and Christian religions- by stating that they followed the "...religion of Ibrahim, the hanif, the Muslim...'' It has been theorized by Watt that the verbal term Islam; arising from the participle form of Muslim (meaning: surrendered to God); may have only arisen as an identifying descriptor for the religion in the late Medinan period. Muslim scholars took the term hanif and its abstract noun haniffiya in two senses: as a synonym for historical Islam in the sense of the revealed to Muhammad and practiced by Muslims, and the other as natural state of monotheism of which Ibrāhīm was a significant but not the sole practitioner.

30.30-32: ''So set thy purpose (O Muhammad) for religion as a man by nature upright (hanif) - the nature (framed) of Allah, in which
He hath created man. There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not - Turning
unto Him (only); and be careful of your duty unto Him and establish worship, and be not of those who ascribe partners (unto Him);
Of those who split up their religion and became schismatics (Sunnis, Shiites, Ahmadis, etc), each sect exulting in its tenets.''

6.115-116: The Word of your Lord is complete in truth and in justice. None can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
If you obey the majority of people on the earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture, they only guess.

It's clear to me that the former intent of Islam has been perverted into the Cult of Muhammad for worldly purposes.
In the former DIN of Islam, Ibrahim was the perfect example to be followed in righteousness, not, NOT Muhammad.

http://www.free-minds.org/testimony" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To associate anything or anyone with God is known as 'shirk', the highest degree of blasphemy, which God does not forgive. This is made clear in chapter 4 verse 48. The Quran also stipulates that Muslims must profess faith in the One God and not call on anyone else. The Shahadah, therefore, cannot be the correct way to affirm faith as the name of the prophet Muhammad, besides God, is included in this attestation and also used in the salat prayers. People blindly following their religion are the root of wrong beliefs. This acceptance of the Shahadah is no different......

Note how angry the Mohammedan become when you mention God alone. Their anger subsides only when you agree to add "Muhammad" as the second half of Abu Hurairah's Shahadah..... Hence God promises to expose the hypocrites. One such method is recorded in the Quran in Sura 63.1: "When the hypocrites come to you and say: "WE BEAR WITNESS THAT YOU ARE THE MESSENGER OF GOD. God indeed knows that you are His Messenger. God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars".

The important thing to note in this verse is that the emphasized words form the second part of Abu Hurairah's Shahadah, which is now recited by all Mohammedan. This as we see from the verse 63.1 is actually the Shahadah of the hypocrites! What the hypocrites say is vain talk because God indeed knows that Muhammad is His Messenger (63:1). God does not need any one to affirm back to Him what He already knows about His own Messenger.

Thus Muhammadans are clearly insulting Islam. What should -Muslims- do about them?


Now that's turning the table alright... and mirroring quite exactly how Muhammadans are being duped! They aren't even... Muslims!