The sun orbits a galaxy?
84 posts
• Page 4 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Sahih Al-Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421: Narrated Abu Dharr: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’" (36.38) Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0297: It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything (unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Ya' know, I have to be honest and admit that I never really know when you are kidding or being sarcastic or being serious. It's hard for me to tell from my background. But, I understand most of what you say, or at least I hope I do.  orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
This is very interesting video that I came across nothing to do with this thread., Muhammad Asad., an interview of Son of Famous Jew who converted in to Islam whose Mother was Saudi ..
and That famous Jewish guy was Muhammad Asad, who was Leopold Weiss until his mid 20s.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfAGnxKfwOg Fascinating real life story of a mixed culture  Talal Asad .. Great Guy.. wonderful interview.. I didn't know Leopold Weiss married a Saudi lady in early 1910s and had a son ... yeezevee Last edited by yeezevee on Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Isn't this a distraction of the OP? orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
       orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
MBL , you seem to have something stuck in your beard...
There are three ways Muslims will deal with this text: a) One is to say the hadith is false. b) To say: "Just wait, and you will see the rise rising in the West. Them it's too late to say to become a Muslim, it's judgement day." c) The more sensible one will say that this hadith is a allegory on how allah controls the universe. When he suspends normal physics, the world will end. That is also not without problems, but at least it is trying to make some sense. The thing that makes me laugh when looking at this scene painted in the text is the scale: So the sun can talk and allah sits on his throne when she (he?) prostrates herself. This means that the dimensions of allah's posterior must be comparable to the size of the sun. On a more serious note, there is something else in that text: Remember that allah started off his career as the moongod. The sun is asking the moon to rise again. The moon controls the sun. This is exactly how pre-Islamic Muslims would have seen the relationship between the sun and the moon. The moon guides and controls, the sun is a servant of the moon. That is why the moongod was called "THE god". So, Mohammed's answer is quite believable and probably authentic: Mohammed speaks about the sun and the moon just as a 7th century arab would, as his father or his mother may have done. The only difference he uses "allah" to mean the copyrighted trademark god of Islam, BUT HE DOES NOT SPELL IT OUT!!! The thing is, you cannot help but admire Mohammed's cunning cleverness: His answer is phrased in a way that both Muslims and pagans would find little surprising or controversial in it. This text is giving us a glimpse at his secret of success: He can make his message sound as if it is this message is already familiar to his followers. He tried that same strategy with Jews and Christians, it did not work, and that is why he started to hate them. However, the simple folk followed him without even realising they had left their old religion behind: after all, familiar allah was still there, still being in control, and Mohammed mixed the familiar ideas with some new ones: the other gods were unimportant, and old allah was even known to the Jews and Christians. Eventually people understood that essentially Mohammed’s message was a political one: one god, one nation, one ruler. Other than that he tried to change as little as possible: the rituals of the hajj, for example, survived Islamisation virtually complete and unchanged. Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
And, inside my Holiday Inn towel also. 
Difficult. Apparently, it passes Islamic science tests. Yes, science to them means interpreting the Quran and hadiths. Also, it's far from the only one.
Are all of the narrators wrong or fabricating it in the same exact way?? It's pretty clear
It doesn't just say the sun will rise in the west. That would have been OK. It said the sun will reverse it's course causing it to rise in the west. This is very clear.
Saying that the sun's course has anything to do with the direction iun which iot rises from is immediately wrong even if it's an allegory. The moment Muhammad asked where the sun goes, intending to tell them, he was wrong. Now, if this would have been something unusual for someone to say, then maybe we could say that surely he must have meant something purely allegorical with a different meaning. However, it was not something unusual and in fact, it matches the quite common perception of the 7th century where the sun was thought to orbit the earth. It matches it perfectly. And remember, this isn't just Muhammad spouting off. We can't wroite it off that way because there is a prophecy in that hadith, and Muhammad could not get a prophecy unless given to him by Allah. So either Allah has the same erroneous perceptions of his creation that 7th century people just so happened to also have, or Allah did not give him that prophecy. And if Allah did not give that to him, that means he is either delusional or a liar.
Well, that part is a little easier to get out of. It doesn't really say the sun talks even though it does say that it asks, prostrates etc...
Or how about the two biggest ones from 7th century pagan Arabs. The Kaaba and the Black Stone. It's even right there in front of everybody's face, to this very day. orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
How DOES a spherical sun manage to "prostrate" itself? At best it can roll around a bit...
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Well, fortunately for the Quran and hadiths, it doesn't specifically say. According to Islam, all things prostrate to Allah. Trees, the sun, moon...This is actually the diversion that they attempt when faced with this hadith. They try to write the whole thing off as merely talking about prostration and then go on to tell you how all things prostrate to Allah. And then, they hope you leave it alone. But you know me. The first thing I ask is "if it's merely about prostration, why is the first question about where the sun GOES?". And then, I mention that it also has a prophecy where the sun's course reverses causing it to rise in the west and that excuse is pretty much deflated. It's not just talking about prostration. orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
The quran said that the moon follows the sun. So the belief should be that the sun too orbits the earth. "By the sun and its radiant brightness; By the moon as she follows him." (91:1-2) explanation by Tafsir al-Jalalayn By the sun and her morning light, and [by] the moon when it follows her, rising after she has set 6:77 And when he saw the moon rising, he said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will surely be among the people gone astray." 6:78 And when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my lord; this is greater." But when it set, he said, "O my people, indeed I am free from what you associate with Allah . or perhaps muslims can explain whether the moon follows the sun by: 1. orbiting the earth or 2. orbiting the galaxy Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
This is great, and we both know it's true. But you know Muslims. They'll use any twist they can imagine as honesty just seems to go out the window as soon as the Quran is challenged. The excuse will be, that "follows", it means following the sun chronologically rather than physically. But I also guess that Muhammad never saw the moon in the day time according to 91:1-2, but i have. But, when we also couple what you have quoted with the following, your interpretation becomes even more correct. 36:40 (Shakir) Neither is it allowable to the sun that it should overtake the moon, nor can the night outstrip the day; and all float on in a sphere. Now, if the sun and moon were orbiting two different things, then why would anything be mentioned about overtaking at all? It's a pointless statement. However, if we say the author thought that both orbited the same thing, i.e. the earth, then that statement becomes quite meaningful and is telling us that Allah, through his power, miraculously times the orbits correctly, or otherwise one could overtake the other. And this would merely be another statement about Allah's power in a style completely consistent with the rest of the Quran. Also, if we are to assume that the Quran has to be correct, and therefore it was talking about the sun orbiting the galaxy rather than the earth, then why are we to not assume that it's also talking about the moon orbiting the galaxy as well? This is a really really bad and obvious error, which is why most Muslims have stayed away from it. When we put this together with the multiple hadiths that speak of the sun "going somewhere" at night and a reversal of the sun's course causing it to rise in the west, it just becomes insurmountable. And they know this, but yet they remain Muslims, which leads me to believe that they don't have faith at all, they have "need" that they confuse with faith. And this need is so great that it causes them to blatantly lie to themselves and ignore the glaringly obvious. orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
The earth is orbiting the sun, not the solar system. If the sun were to orbit the galaxy, it would have to move out of the galaxy. At best, it may be stated that the sun is orbiting the galactic centre,
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Who said otherwise?
Orbits within a galaxy. Orbits a galaxy, not orbits around a galaxy. orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Hi guys!
Just debated another guy on this very same issue, and needless to say, this topic has been helpful. I owe my thanks to everybody involved, including Mr. Bhagat, and I think that one Hadith on the Prophet's theory of Sun resting is enough to put this whole Solar Apex issue to rest. Below is my response from the facebook group called, "The Largest Islamic Group on Facebook (Invite Muslims & Spread Islam)".
"Do you remember what you told me once? That every passing minute is a another chance to turn it all around" - Vanilla Sky
"If I could just go back... if I could rub everything out... starting with myself" - The Talented Mr. Ripley
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
About the hadith, they will first try to say that it merely talks about prostration like it talks about prostration of the trees and other things in the Quran and try to keep you on that part of the meaning. But the question was not how or why the sun prostrates, the question was where the sun goes. So while it may be talking about prostration as well, it is most certainly talking about a motion of the sun that is repeated on a daily basis. So even if the Quran and hadith WAS talking about a daily orbit, it would still be horribly in error. And, as you pointed out, it may not even be talking about an orbit, but rather a repeated arch or semi circle. The hadith clearly says the sun stops and waits for permission to continue.
Then they might try to say that this hadith is not authentic. But the same thing is repeated 4 different times in Bukhari and Salih Muslim. So it's quite authentic as it is repeated across hadiths. Then they will try to say that these were merely Muhammad's words, not the words of the Quran. Well, this hadith is different than most because it has a prophecy in it. And Muhammad would never prophesy in his own name, and therefore the claim would HAVE to be that Allah told him this. therefore, in that respect these ARE supposed to be the words of Allah. So Allah thinks that if the sun reverses it's course and returns to where it came from, it will rise in the west. This is really really bad. Perhaps the number one sore spot for Muslims. Muhammad just didn't know when to keep his mouth shut and instead assumed he knew what he did not know. So now, either he's a mental patient, or a flat out liar because he's representing that God told him this prophecy. But the part that is most convincing is that it isn't strange for Muhammad to say something like this because it matches 7trh century knowledge perfectly. This is precisely what we would expect from a 7th century person. How could anyone have ever guessed the earth was spinning? THAT would have been strange, but instead we get exactly what we should from a 7th century man. For Muslims to ignore this is simply flat out hypnotized denial. It's that simple. And because of Quran's claim to be the letter for letter dictation of God, it doesn't have a leg to stand on. One error and the whole house of cards topples. The is why Muslims are so defensive. They are put in that position by the claims of their religion. Islam seems very strong on the outside, but it's actually very brittle and hollow on the inside and therefore can break to pieces very easily. It doesn't bend like a willow. If one sees one error or problem, just one, they cannot be a Muslim anymore, if they are truthful to themselves. orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Hello Mr. Muhammad bin Lyin,
You have done quite a lot to help me, alongside the rest of the forum members. I will be indebted to you guys, and faithfreedom. Mr. Hassan actually went on to say that the sun was prostrating to the throne, as the throne is above it. His interpretation indicated a Geocentric Solar System, which was the biggest error. As for the sun stopping, they might say that it happens for microseconds, or jiffy, where the time is such that it is barely noticeable. I think Muhammad theorized the concept, since ancient Arabians did observe the rising, and setting of many stars, even before Islam. All Muhammad had to do was take this common knowledge, and add divinity to it. It's a shame that Muslims have been brainwashed to the point of losing their own critical thinking. "Do you remember what you told me once? That every passing minute is a another chance to turn it all around" - Vanilla Sky
"If I could just go back... if I could rub everything out... starting with myself" - The Talented Mr. Ripley
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Stopping is stopping regardless of whether it is noticeable by us or not. The sun is in continual motion in an orbit within the galaxy. It cannot stop moving, short of a miracle. But here's the best part which will silence this particular issue. If it is stopping to prostrate, which country gets to watch it prostrate while it is under the throne?? And it prostrates when the sun goes somewhere, which means when it leaves the vision of the Middle East, it is under the throne and prostrating to Allah, but it is not prostrating to Allah when it is over the Middle East. Right?? See?? It's ridiculous and a huge error that perhaps some Muslims would spend their lifetime inventing excuses for
Of course. orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
6.3. And He is Allah in the heavens and on earth. He knoweth what ye hide, and what ye reveal, and He knoweth the (recompense) which ye earn (by your deeds). Ask him this question.This verse says that Allah is in heavens and earth so naturally throne too must be in the earth so where is the throne of Allah? IF it was there on earth where is it? Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
Yes. His house is apparently the Kaaba, which was attacked twice after Muhammad's death, and God did nothing.
"Do you remember what you told me once? That every passing minute is a another chance to turn it all around" - Vanilla Sky
"If I could just go back... if I could rub everything out... starting with myself" - The Talented Mr. Ripley
Re: The sun orbits a galaxy?
I am talking about literal throne/chair of Allah.. 2.255. Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory). Here we are told his throne extends over heavens and earth so you can imagine how big that throne of Allah must be and now if Allah is in heavens and earth where is that throne? We should be able to see it if its that big... Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
84 posts
• Page 4 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Return to The Quran and Hadith Who is onlineUsers browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest |
Who is online
In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 135 on Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:37 pm
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest