top 5 Quran errors

[Nosubmission]

[4] Mary was an orphan
3:35-3:37
When the wife of 'Imran said: My Lord! I have vowed unto Thee that which is in my belly as a consecrated (offering). Accept it from me. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower!
And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female - God knew best of what she was delivered - the male is not as the female; and lo! I have named her Mary, and lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast.

And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto thee this (food)? She answered: It is from God. God giveth without stint to whom He will.

What or who tells you that Maryam was an ORPHAN? Do you presume that Zachariah was the founder or manager of a kindergarten in Jerusalem? Why Zachariah? In what way were Maryam and Zachariah related? (I need verses from the Koran, not from the Bible or non-canonical Christian literature please!)

[debunker]

Dearest nosubmission,

please don't confuse Masta's assertion with my speculation. Mine is explained in point #3-b: Mary was likened to the piety of a man named Aaron who lived in her time. This Aaron has nothing to do with Moses' brother.

Finally, my friendly suggestion to you: DO NOT rely on the chronological order of events given in the Koran, for it displays inconsistency. Although some verses IMPLY that Jesus came SOME TIME after Moses (indefinite period of time), many verses disregard the notion of chronology. For instance, the narrative in Surah 19 teaches that Zachariah and Maryam lived PRIOR to Abraham and Ishmael came AFTER Moses and Aaron!

Could you, please specify these verses in Chapter 19?

What or who tells you that Maryam was an ORPHAN? Do you presume that Zachariah was the founder or manager of a kindergarten in Jerusalem? Why Zachariah? In what way were Maryam and Zachariah related? (I need verses from the Koran, not from the Bible or non-canonical Christian literature please!)

Only the fact that Zachariah became her guardian. If she wasn't an orphan, she wouldn't have needed a guardian.

[debunker]

@ nosubmision,

I read 19:1-50... indeed, the versese disregard chronology... so? The verses I listed clearly imply that there were many generations between Moses and Jesus.

[Nosubmission]

Dearest nosubmission,

please don't confuse Masta's assertion with my speculation. Mine is explained in point #3-b: Mary was likened to the piety of a man named Aaron who lived in her time. This Aaron has nothing to do with Moses' brother.

Your theory does not only fail to answer my simple question, but also gives birth to new questions due to its vagueness. WHO was that specific Aaron, between whom and Maryam a supposed parallelism based on piety was drawn? What do we know about that OTHER Aaron in the Koran? Do Jewish history and cluture testify to your claim? Was there a saint-like figure named Aaron in Maryam's period taken as a role model for piety? Where is your evidence either from the Koran or Judaism?

More, the people supposedly questioning Maryam about Jesus' birth have an argumentative and accusing tone in that verse! They do not claim her to be pious like someone else, but implicity accuse her of fornication. It is not reasonable to expect them to compare Maryam with a pious man whilst they have doubts about her piety!

Could you, please specify these verses in Chapter 19?

Surah 19:

Zachariah and Yahya (1-15)
Maryam and Issa (16-33)
Abraham (41-50)
Moses and Aaron (51-53)
Ishmael (54-55)
Idris (56-57)

Only the fact that Zachariah became her guardian. If she wasn't an orphan, she wouldn't have needed a guardian.

How will you interpret the following verse then?

This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Marium in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another (Surah 3:44)

Maryam changing hands between different people as an orphan?

So her Lord accepted her with a good acceptance and made her grow up a good growing, and gave her into the charge of Zakariya; whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food. He said: O Marium! whence comes this to you? She said: It is from Allah. Surely Allah gives to whom He pleases without measure (Surah 3:37).

What does this mean? The Lord accepts Maryam into where? Zachariah's kindergarten? Why does her Lord give her to the charge of Zacxhariah? Was Zachariah the only man that took care of the orphans in Israel at that time? Why is there a reference to a sanctuary???

[Nosubmission]

@ nosubmision,

I read 19:1-50... indeed, the versese disregard chronology... so? The verses I listed clearly imply that there were many generations between Moses and Jesus.

This shows it is impossible to rely on the chronology given in the Koran.

Some commentators believed that Moses and Aaron's sister Maryam died and came back to life to become Jesus' mother! Why do you think they held such a claim?

[debunker]

Beloved Nosubmission,

First off,

Some commentators believed that Moses and Aaron's sister Maryam died and came back to life to become Jesus' mother! Why do you think they held such a claim?

Because Muslim scholars are most excellent idiots.

Your theory does not only fail to answer my simple question, but also gives birth to new questions due to its vagueness. WHO was that specific Aaron, between whom and Maryam a supposed parallelism based on piety was drawn? What do we know about that OTHER Aaron in the Koran? Do Jewish history and cluture testify to your claim? Was there a saint-like figure named Aaron in Maryam's period taken as a role model for piety? Where is your evidence either from the Koran or Judaism?

Your objection is well justified. But then again, admittedly, many verses in the Quran seem to come up out of nowhere and beg for a lot of explanation... like the verse that mentions what seems to be a "limbo". It came out of nowhere and no other verse explains it.

More, the people supposedly questioning Maryam about Jesus' birth have an argumentative and accusing tone in that verse! They do not claim her to be pious like someone else, but implicity accuse her of fornication. It is not reasonable to expect them to compare Maryam with a pious man whilst they have doubts about her piety!

Ok, how about this: "O Mary! You're pious woman! So were your parents! How come you did such a thing!" The accusing tone is still there.

How will you interpret the following verse then?

This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Marium in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another (Surah 3:44)

Maryam changing hands between different people as an orphan?

So her Lord accepted her with a good acceptance and made her grow up a good growing, and gave her into the charge of Zakariya; whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food. He said: O Marium! whence comes this to you? She said: It is from Allah. Surely Allah gives to whom He pleases without measure (Surah 3:37).

What does this mean? The Lord accepts Maryam into where? Zachariah's kindergarten? Why does her Lord give her to the charge of Zacxhariah? Was Zachariah the only man that took care of the orphans in Israel at that time? Why is there a reference to a sanctuary???

And you're supposedly an Ex-Muslim? First off, the word "sanctuary" was used many times in the Quran (with David, Zacharia and Mary) to refer to a place of worship. In fact the word used is "Mihrab" which really means a place of worship.

Second, the men were competing against each other (throwing their pens) to become guardians of Mary for her parents were pious people. Everyone wanted the honor of becoming her guardian.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Hello MBL,

You said:

By default if the Quran, or any book for that matter, mentions one person being the sister of another, then by default we assume it means biologically speaking until shown otherwise. Therefore, the burden of proof lies on MastaBlaster. If he cannot substantiate well enough, then the default meaning stands and his meaning is chalked up to wishful thinking. It's really that simple. So go get started with the tap dance, Mo's MoRon. This oughta' be good.

You are right. By default, that's what's understood from the verse: Mary had a biological brother whose name was Aaron.

Now there are many ways to interpret this:

1- Some might "speculate" or make the connection that this Aaron is Moses' brother. This speculation implies that the Quran made a very laughable mistake. It implies that Jesus lived in the time of Moses (contradicting [1]) and the birth of both Christianity and Judiasm was seperated by only a few years (Moses' sister was older than Moses [2], so Moses could have been only a few years older than Jesus if Moses' sister was indeed Jesus' mother).

Congratulations. You discovered the correct answer, if there is one. I was wondering when this obvious common sense point would arise. Although the Quran is often laughable, it would seem difficult to believe that it was that laughable. Although that's not a definitive answer and more an interpretation or idea, often the simple common sense answer is the strongest of all of them. It really is difficult to think Muhammad could be that stupid and clueless, as I suppose there's limits to even his stupidity Anyway, this at least proves you can think. If you're a Muslim. then who taught you how to think properly?? Did you disguise your secret classroom with a mosque covering??

[Nosubmission]

Beloved Nosubmission,

First off,

Because Muslim scholars are most excellent idiots.

Your objection is well justified. But then again, admittedly, many verses in the Quran seem to come up out of nowhere and beg for a lot of explanation... like the verse that mentions what seems to be a "limbo". It came out of nowhere and no other verse explains it.

This is a false analogy. The narrative about Maryam and Jesus is dependent on the Jewish tradition and culture. If there is no evidence about a role mode named Aaron in Judaism, your speculation is blown away. We have no specific and outstanding character that lives at Maryam's time in Jewish culture, but a Maryam who is Amram's daughter and Aaron's sister according to the Jewish scripture. That Marium is called Aaron's sister in Exodus 15:20. You are free to overlook this as mere coincidence.

Ok, how about this: "O Mary! You're pious woman! So were your parents! How come you did such a thing!" The accusing tone is still there.

Ok, how about this: O Mary, you are the sister of Aaron (an impious and sinful man). The accusing tone is still there! How can you prove that Aaron was a role model of piety and not that of a sinner?

And you're supposedly an Ex-Muslim? First off, the word "sanctuary" was used many times in the Quran (with David, Zacharia and Mary) to refer to a place of worship. In fact the word used is "Mihrab" which really means a place of worship.

I am an ex-Muslim even if hurts. I know what the word sanctuary means, which is not what I am trying to show! What does a place of worship have to do with your weird assertion that Maryam was an orphan?

Second, the men were competing against each other (throwing their pens) to become guardians of Mary for her parents were pious people. Everyone wanted the honor of becoming her guardian.

This theory contradicts your previous response. Why did those MEN want to be Maryam's guardian if their parents were alive? When did Maryam become an orphan? The first time the Lord gives her to Zachariah's charge. Why the need to make MEN compete a second time? Why only MEN????

[debunker]

This is a false analogy. The narrative about Maryam and Jesus is dependent on the Jewish tradition and culture. If there is no evidence about a role mode named Aaron in Judaism, your speculation is blown away. We have no specific and outstanding character that lives at Maryam's time in Jewish culture, but a Maryam who is Amram's daughter and Aaron's sister according to the Jewish scripture. That Marium is called Aaron's sister in Exodus 15:20. You are free to overlook this as mere coincidence.

Your argument is based on the assumption that the Quran is badly copied from the Bible. While the Quranic claim is that it was revealed directly from God. In fact, the Quran even explicitly an implicitly claims the corruption of the Bible. Examples of this implicit claim is variations of the Biblical stories (for example, Aaron opposed building the calf, Jesus never claimed divinity, etc). And could you please explain to me why would the Bible call Miriam Aaron's, rather than Moses' sister? it's weird, don't you think?

P.S. Why are you confusing AmraM with ImraN? I checked the Arabic Bible too.

Ok, how about this: O Mary, you are the sister of Aaron (an impious and sinful man). The accusing tone is still there! How can you prove that Aaron was a role model of piety and not that of a sinner?

That's a perfectly acceptable speculation. And your point?

I am an ex-Muslim even if hurts. I know what the word sanctuary means, which is not what I am trying to show! What does a place of worship have to do with your weird assertion that Maryam was an orphan?

Actually, to me, it's a lot better to convert to Christianity than to atheism. Anyway, sanctuary has nothing to do with my assertion that she was an orphan, but you seemed to imply that the use of the word has some hidden implications. Sorry I misunderstood you.

This theory contradicts your previous response. Why did those MEN want to be Maryam's guardian if their parents were alive?

That's the POINT. She must have become an orphan and the question of who should take care of her was raised.

When did Maryam become an orphan?

I don't know. But why are you objecting to this? It's not like in the Bible her parents were mentioned at all (correct me if I'm wrong).

The first time the Lord gives her to Zachariah's charge. Why the need to make MEN compete a second time? Why only MEN????

The first time, the fact that Zachariah became her guardian was mentioned among other things. The second time this was mentioned, more details were added (that he had to compete with others to become her guardian). As to why only men? The verse didn't say it was ONLY men. It used the word "them". But anyway, so what if it was only men? why is this relevant?

[Nosubmission]

Your argument is based on the assumption that the Quran is badly copied from the Bible. While the Quranic claim is that it was revealed directly from God. In fact, the Quran even explicitly an implicitly claims the corruption of the Bible. Examples of this implicit claim is variations of the Biblical stories (for example, Aaron opposed building the calf, Jesus never claimed divinity, etc). And could you please explain to me why would the Bible call Miriam Aaron's, rather than Moses' sister? it's weird, don't you think?

First, the charges of biblical corruption are totally irrelevant to this debate. (They are wrong as well. Some Koran verses deny the Islamic theory that the word of God was subject to corruption: Surah 6:33. Some other verses ask Mohammad to consult the Jewish scriptures to stave off any doubts Surah 10:94.)

Second, there is nothing wrong with designating Miriam as Aaron's sister in the book of Exodus since it is true. Miriam was Aaron's sister. Another verse in the Torah says that Amram had three children: Miriam, Aaron, and Moses (Numbers 26:59).

P.S. Why are you confusing AmraM with ImraN? I checked the Arabic Bible too.

Imran is the Arabic (Islamic) version of the Hebrew Amram as Ibrahim of Abraham.

That's a perfectly acceptable speculation. And your point?

My point: your speculations lead to new speculations with no solutions.

Actually, to me, it's a lot better to convert to Christianity than to atheism. Anyway, sanctuary has nothing to do with my assertion that she was an orphan, but you seemed to imply that the use of the word has some hidden implications. Sorry I misunderstood you.

Deal.

That's the POINT. She must have become an orphan and the question of who should take care of her was raised.

WHY the need to reach that conclusion in a rush? Is everyone who has a guardian an aodopted child? According to your interpretation, who adopted Maryam first was Allah as the verse says that she was accepted by the Lord. Do you believe that Maryam was adopted by Allah? More to the point, what does the reference to a sanctuary have to do with the notion of adoption, which is missing from that narrative?

I don't know. But why are you objecting to this? It's not like in the Bible her parents were mentioned at all (correct me if I'm wrong).

I am objecting because you try to present your claim as a solid fact. The Bible has nothing to do with your theory concerning Maryam's adoption.

The first time, the fact that Zachariah became her guardian was mentioned among other things. The second time this was mentioned, more details were added (that he had to compete with others to become her guardian). As to why only men? The verse didn't say it was ONLY men. It used the word "them". But anyway, so what if it was only men? why is this relevant?

This assertion is not supported by the Koran. There is nothing in that narrative that says Zachariah was among the people who supposedly cast their pens. This second group of people apparently has no association with Zachariah, for Zachariah's name is first introduced after Maryam's birth and her acceptance by the Lord.

[debunker]

First, the charges of biblical corruption are totally irrelevant to this debate. (They are wrong as well. Some Koran verses deny the Islamic theory that the word of God was subject to corruption: Surah 6:33. Some other verses ask Mohammad to consult the Jewish scriptures to stave off any doubts Surah 10:94.)

Oh this is a whole different long discussion.

Second, there is nothing wrong with designating Miriam as Aaron's sister in the book of Exodus since it is true. Miriam was Aaron's sister. Another verse in the Torah says that Amram had three children: Miriam, Aaron, and Moses (Numbers 26:59).

But I wonder why not associate her with her FAR more important brother, Moses.

Imran is the Arabic (Islamic) version of the Hebrew Amram as Ibrahim of Abraham.

I told you I checked the Arabic Bible.

WHY the need to reach that conclusion in a rush? Is everyone who has a guardian an aodopted child?

Ummmmm... yeah?!

According to your interpretation, who adopted Maryam first was Allah as the verse says that she was accepted by the Lord. Do you believe that Maryam was adopted by Allah?

So? She still needed someone to take care of her. Simple example, a sick person is taken care of by God but they still need doctors to treat them.

More to the point, what does the reference to a sanctuary have to do with the notion of adoption, which is missing from that narrative?

you're mixing everything up. The mention of the sanctuary (the place of worship) has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with proving/disproving adoption.

I am objecting because you try to present your claim as a solid fact.

Did I? What part of "speculation" didn't you exactly understand?

The Bible has nothing to do with your theory concerning Maryam's adoption.

Who said that any claim or conclusion based on the Quran has to agree with the Bible. Like I said, the Quran disagrees on many stories, e.g. divinity of Jesus, etc. But when it comes to wheather Mary was adopted or not, you don't even have a Biblical background to base your gripe upon. Nothing was mentioned about Mary's parents in the Bible (again, correct me if I'm wrong). Hmmmm? come to think of it, it is intresting how the Bible bores us with the most detailed teeny tiny geneological details but when it comes to Mary, Poof! The names of her parents are missing. I personally do NOT see this as a weakness, but how about you? Given that that you're so fond of Biblical geneologies, aren't you a little bothered by this little missing detail?

This assertion is not supported by the Koran. There is nothing in that narrative that says Zachariah was among the people who supposedly cast their pens. This second group of people apparently has no association with Zachariah, for Zachariah's name is first introduced after Maryam's birth and her acceptance by the Lord.

Apparently? Dearest, read the whole account all the way from 3:35 to 3:44 and you'll see that Zachariah never left the scene.

[Nosubmission]

But I wonder why not associate her with her FAR more important brother, Moses.

FAR more important? That is your subjective and manipulating designation. Moses was the youngest of Amram's children, and he spent his childhood in the Pharaoh's palace. Since the verse in the Torah makes it clear that Amram had three children, who were named Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, there is no problem with Miriam's designation as Aaron's sister. Aaron was the oldest of the three.

I told you I checked the Arabic Bible.

How is Mary called in the Arabic Bible? Maryam or Miriam?

So? She still needed someone to take care of her. Simple example, a sick person is taken care of by God but they still need doctors to treat them.

Yes or no? Was Maryam adopted by Allah?

you're mixing everything up. The mention of the sanctuary (the place of worship) has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with proving/disproving adoption.

So why is it there? What does this sanctuary have to do with Maryam and Zachariah then? Could you please elaborate on this account?

Did I? What part of "speculation" didn't you exactly understand?

Who was Zachariah? Why did Allah choose him to take care of Maryam? Why was there a sanctuary in the story if it had nothing to do with Zachariah or Maryam? Why the need to look for other people than Zachariah to take care of Maryam?

Who said that any claim or conclusion based on the Quran has to agree with the Bible. Like I said, the Quran disagrees on many stories, e.g. divinity of Jesus, etc. But when it comes to wheather Mary was adopted or not, you don't even have a Biblical background to base your gripe upon. Nothing was mentioned about Mary's parents in the Bible (again, correct me if I'm wrong). Hmmmm? come to think of it, it is intresting how the Bible bores us with the most detailed teeny tiny geneological details but when it comes to Mary, Poof! The names of her parents are missing. I personally do NOT see this as a weakness, but how about you? Given that that you're so fond of Biblical geneologies, aren't you a little bothered by this little missing detail?

WHY are Mary's parents supposed to be mentioned in the Gospel? Sorry, but this is a ridiculous argument. The Gospels are not about Mary, but Jesus. Still, Luke tells us that Mary was Elisabeth's cousin, and Elisabeth was a descendant of Aaron. More, many biblical scholars contend that the genealogy given in Luke is Mary's and that the name Heli is the shorter form of Heliachim. The genealogies serve to tell who JESUS is, not Mary though!

Apparently? Dearest, read the whole account all the way from 3:35 to 3:44 and you'll see that Zachariah never left the scene.

That account has no flashback, but is one with future projection. This is why it is impossible for Zachariah to be of the second group of people (who are they?) who supposedly cast their pens to be Mary's guardian. However, if you read the non-canonical Gospels about Jesus' infancy, you can easily find answers to all my questions and save yourself from making absurd claims.

[debunker]

FAR more important? That is your subjective and manipulating designation. Moses was the youngest of Amram's children, and he spent his childhood in the Pharaoh's palace. Since the verse in the Torah makes it clear that Amram had three children, who were named Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, there is no problem with Miriam's designation as Aaron's sister. Aaron was the oldest of the three.

Oh Ok, so that Exodus verse was referring to the period when Moses was still not declared a prophet. In this case, calling Miriam, Aaron's sister is more appropriate.

How is Mary called in the Arabic Bible? Maryam or Miriam?

She's called, in the Arabic Bible EXACTLY as she's called in the Quran: MARYAM.

Yes or no? Was Maryam adopted by Allah?

Yes... although the word was "accepted" by God, but I'll answer yes for you.

So why is it there? What does this sanctuary have to do with Maryam and Zachariah then? Could you please elaborate on this account?

Ummm? Just to emphasize that she used to pray a lot? Maybe?

Who was Zachariah? Why did Allah choose him to take care of Maryam?

A righteous man who was fit of taking care of Mary. (He was also the father of John, but that's irrelevant).

Why was there a sanctuary in the story if it had nothing to do with Zachariah or Maryam?

But it did... they both used to pray a lot.

Why the need to look for other people than Zachariah to take care of Maryam?

This is your claim. Perhaps you're confusing some non-canonalized account with the Quranic account?

WHY are Mary's parents supposed to be mentioned in the Gospel? Sorry, but this is a ridiculous argument. The Gospels are not about Mary, but Jesus. Still, Luke tells us that Mary was Elisabeth's cousin, and Elisabeth was a descendant of Aaron. More, many biblical scholars contend that the genealogy given in Luke is Mary's and that the name Heli is the shorter form of Heliachim. The genealogies serve to tell who JESUS is, not Mary though!

I never said it was "supposed" to be mentioned, I was just a bit surprized that "you" weren't bothered by this. Anyway, so Luke has Mary connected to Aaron? But Matthews says something else I guess... anyway, I don't care.

That account has no flashback, but is one with future projection. This is why it is impossible for Zachariah to be of the second group of people (who are they?) who supposedly cast their pens to be Mary's guardian. However, if you read the non-canonical Gospels about Jesus' infancy, you can easily find answers to all my questions and save yourself from making absurd claims.

Actually could you please provide me links to non-canonical gospels? And if it didn't match the Quranic account, then I won't be surprised, after all, the Quranic account never matched the accounts of even the canonized Bible.

[Nosubmission]

Oh Ok, so that Exodus verse was referring to the period when Moses was still not declared a prophet. In this case, calling Miriam, Aaron's sister is more appropriate.

NO! Exodus 15:20 talks of the period after the Israelites' exodus and crossing the Red Sea.

She's called, in the Arabic Bible EXACTLY as she's called in the Quran: MARYAM.

Which one are you talking about? Aaron's sister or Jesus' mother?

Yes... although the word was "accepted" by God, but I'll answer yes for you.

So Allah is Maryam's foster father since Maryam is His adopted daughter. So far so good. How about the following verse:

When a woman of Imran said: My Lord! surely I vow to Thee what is in my womb, to be devoted (to Thy service); accept therefore from me, surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing (Surah 3:35).

Here Maryam's mother is giving Maryam as an adopted child to Allah even before her birth? LOL

Ummm? Just to emphasize that she used to pray a lot? Maybe?

Maybe? You are fond of maybes.

A righteous man who was fit of taking care of Mary. (He was also the father of John, but that's irrelevant).

How is he inserted into Maryam's life? Did Maryam's parents know this Zachariah? How?

But it did... they both used to pray a lot.

... and it was natural for them to talk to angels in their sanctuary? Are you also fed by angels when you go to a sanctuary to pray?

This is your claim. Perhaps you're confusing some non-canonalized account with the Quranic account?

No, I am only trying to show you that you are making vain efforts to dissociate the narrative in Surah 3 from some non-canonical Gospels of infancy.

I never said it was "supposed" to be mentioned, I was just a bit surprized that "you" weren't bothered by this. Anyway, so Luke has Mary connected to Aaron? But Matthews says something else I guess... anyway, I don't care.

Why surprised? Should I be bothered because Jesus' grandmother is not mentioned in the Gospels? It seems that you have never read the Gospels. Matthew says nothing about Mary's lineage. The genealogy in Matthew is through Joseph.

Actually could you please provide me links to non-canonical gospels? And if it didn't match the Quranic account, then I won't be surprised, after all, the Quranic account never matched the accounts of even the canonized Bible.

Look for these on the net:

The Arabic Gospel of Infancy
The Gospel of James (Protevangelium)
The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew.

I am working on the 19th Surah (1-37) of the Koran these days. I shall give you the link to my article as soon as it is published at answering-islam.

[debunker]

Which one are you talking about? Aaron's sister or Jesus' mother?

The Arabic Bible refers to both Miriam (Moses/Aaron sister) and Mary (mother of Jesus) as MARYAM. So? What's your point?

Maybe? You are fond of maybes.

No, I was just being sarcastic. "Mihrab" is a place of worship. It was mentioned to refer to their piety.

... and it was natural for them to talk to angels in their sanctuary? Are you also fed by angels when you go to a sanctuary to pray?

they were no ordinary people. God favored hem. So? What exactly is hard for you to believe? that Angels are capable of talking to God's favored people? Or that angels exist?

No, I am only trying to show you that you are making vain efforts to dissociate the narrative in Surah 3 from some non-canonical Gospels of infancy.

I have never read any non-canonical Gospel, nor do I care whether the Quran matched or didn't match any of the canonical/non-canonical Gospels.

Why surprised? Should I be bothered because Jesus' grandmother is not mentioned in the Gospels? It seems that you have never read the Gospels. Matthew says nothing about Mary's lineage. The genealogy in Matthew is through Joseph.

I told you I "personally" don't think any of the detailed geneologies is important. But I thought that since YOU seemed to care about detailed geneologies then you'd care about the most important one. Jesus' grandparents... well, never mind.

Look for these on the net:

The Arabic Gospel of Infancy
The Gospel of James (Protevangelium)
The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew.

I am working on the 19th Surah (1-37) of the Koran these days. I shall give you the link to my article as soon as it is published at answering-islam.

Like I said I don't care whether the Quran matched or didn't match any of the canonical/non-canonical Gospels. HOWEVER, I DO care to read your article, please PM me once finished

[Nosubmission]

The Arabic Bible refers to both Miriam (Moses/Aaron sister) and Mary (mother of Jesus) as MARYAM. So? What's your point?

This means the original Hebrew word for Moses and Aaron's sister is disregarded in the Arabic translation. Likewise, Imran is the variation of Amram.

I have never read any non-canonical Gospel, nor do I care whether the Quran matched or didn't match any of the canonical/non-canonical Gospels.

You should read them to make better arguments as I always do comparative reading between the Koran and non-Islamic sources for a better understanding of the Islamic scripture.

I told you I "personally" don't think any of the detailed geneologies is important. But I thought that since YOU seemed to care about detailed geneologies then you'd care about the most important one. Jesus' grandparents... well, never mind.

What made you conclude that I cared about detailed genealogies? Jesus' grandparents are the most important? On basis of what?

Like I said I don't care whether the Quran matched or didn't match any of the canonical/non-canonical Gospels. HOWEVER, I DO care to read your article, please PM me once finished

Be patient. I shall let you know

[debunker]

This means the original Hebrew word for Moses and Aaron's sister is disregarded in the Arabic translation. Likewise, Imran is the variation of Amram.

No my beloved, you're wrong, here let me help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_(mother_of_Jesus)
Mary (Aramaic, Hebrew: מרים, Maryām Miriam Arabic:مريم, Maryam),

See? Mary = Miriam = Maryam. According to the link above... does that shock you in anyway? I hope not.

And ImraN =/= AmraM --> in the Arabic Bible there's AmraM (Moses' father) in the OT... (of course no mention of Mary's father in the NT). So, the Arabic word for AmraM is NOT ImraN, it is STILL AmraM, so there's no reason to confuse it with ImraN.

What made you conclude that I cared about detailed genealogies? Jesus' grandparents are the most important? On basis of what?

You're right, I confused you with another member. Sorry.

[Nosubmission]

No my beloved, you're wrong, here let me help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_(mother_of_Jesus)
Mary (Aramaic, Hebrew: מרים, Maryām Miriam Arabic:مريم, Maryam),

See? Mary = Miriam = Maryam. According to the link above... does that shock you in anyway? I hope not.

And ImraN =/= AmraM --> in the Arabic Bible there's AmraM (Moses' father) in the OT... (of course no mention of Mary's father in the NT). So, the Arabic word for AmraM is NOT ImraN, it is STILL AmraM, so there's no reason to confuse it with ImraN.

How can you deny the fact that the Arabic translation of the Bible keeps faithful to the original Hebrew version of some names?

Look what I have found:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/pro/mos00.htm

An online dicitonary says that Imran is the way Amram is pronounced in Arabic :

http://diccionario.babylon.com/Imran

Islamic awareness agrees:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Histor ... nahal.html

Another website:

http://www.chemistrydaily.com/chemistry/Amram

Another website:

http://babynamesworld.parentsconnect.co ... Imran.html

A Koran translation says Imran is the same as Amram:

http://www.godsmosque.org/html/quran/sura3.html

[debunker]

the funny thing about those stupid Muslim commentators/scholars or whatever they call themselves, is that they never shy away from picking the Bible and start extrapolating to fill in all the missing gaps in the Quran (like for example, the meaning of the "names" taught by God to Adam).

Now in this particular case, the Quran NEVER talked about Moses' father, and what do the idiots do? they read the Bible, see the name "AmraM" and get too excited and think: "Gee! That sounds a lot like ImraN!" So AmraM is ImraN!

What does that mean?! Either that Jesus became a prophet before/shortly after Moses became a prophet OR that there's the slight chance that a man whose name was AmraM=ImraN (named after Moses' father) had a daughter and named her Maryam (after Moses' sister), trying to immitate the names of the first Jewish "familia sagrada", which is BS.

Arabic ImraN =/= Arabic AmraM

By the way, are you now convinced that there's only one name in the Bible for Mary and Miriam, which is Maryam.