BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
sum
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BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by sum »

It is interesting that BaigZaheer has not commented on Mughal`s views on the Koran. They are both working on their own interpretations but so far there has been no discussion between them in the forum. I do not know if Mughal is a Koran only muslim but I think that some open discussion might be in order especially as it looks likely that it will be a long time before they finish their work.

The more "senior" members in the forum could be deprived of BaigZaheer`s and Mughal`s wisdom if "nature takes its course" before the interpretations are "revealed". So far, BaigZaheer has not given much away regarding his thoughts whereas Mughal has given copious comments on his. Surely a few hints from BaigZaheer could be in order.
If their views are too radical or significantly differ from mainstream Islam then in some parts of the world they could be in danger. The forum would be much worse off if we lost their comments.

sum
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Fernando
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by Fernando »

sum wrote:IThe more "senior" members in the forum could be deprived of BaigZaheer`s and Mughal`s wisdom if "nature takes its course" before the interpretations are "revealed".
Perhaps, like the EU's Remainer acolytes, they are waiting for the older people to die off and be replaced by younger, more impressionable, people. Who will, however, have themselves become older and less easily hoodwinked by then..
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah
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Hombre
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by Hombre »

Considering the excessive length of their respective posts - once they open the floodgate, there will be no end to it. Rims & rims pages of comments, interpretation and accusation will fly over our heads.

So maybe that would be more desirable for them to limit their replies to questions from non-Muslims here.
sum
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by sum »

Hello Hombre

I take your point but it raises the issue that there will probably be thousands if not more muslims all with their variant views on the Koran and Islam. It would be much easier and more sensible for muslims to simply accept the literal meaning and so unify as far as possible the understanding of the Koran.

Will BaigZaheer and Mughal share their thoughts between themselves or with us? I doubt it.

sum
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

I thought mMuhgal has converted to Islam a few years back
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manfred
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by manfred »

ehm... that's complicated I think... in a sense he did, but I doubt you would agree with his Qur'an translation....still have a look at it, you may find it interesting.
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

manfred wrote:ehm... that's complicated I think... in a sense he did, but I doubt you would agree with his Qur'an translation....still have a look at it, you may find it interesting.

It does not matter as long as he believes in the Quran and in the One God
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manfred
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by manfred »

Well, the Qur'an he believes in is not the same you believe in.
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

manfred wrote:Well, the Qur'an he believes in is not the same you believe in.
Do you mean he invented his own quran words?
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manfred
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by manfred »

He has rewritten and "improved" it. He leaves links to his work, so have a look.... You will probably not have time to read all of it...

here is an example:

http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPS ... pic=5206.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

scroll down a bit and and you find his version of surah 41

some random examples from that


verse 12:

Yusuf Ali
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.

Mughal
12] That is how He turned them into many galaxies and many solar systems in those galaxies in two steps and made every solar system to come to being complete with all its details in due course. That is how He adorned this universe with massive brilliant stars and made it secure against any malfunction. Such are the set-up systems and laws of the mighty ruler of this universe who makes things obvious for mankind to observe and understand.
verse 13:

Yusuf Ali
But if they turn away, say thou: "I have warned you of a stunning Punishment (as of thunder and lightning) like that which (overtook) the 'Ad and the Thamud!"


Mughal
13] Yet if they turn away from this guidance then say to them, I have delivered to you warning about a mind-blowing revolt, like the upheaval which struck Aad and Thamood.
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Well that is his problem then when using an English translation

The best translation to use is mine because it is the most literal and most acurate
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manfred
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by manfred »

well, show him. Perhaps he will listen to you.
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

manfred wrote:well, show him. Perhaps he will listen to you.

I don't really give a sh!t about anyone anymore, even family members, fcuk them all
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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manfred
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by manfred »

I am sad to see you talk like that. Did something bad happen to you? (You of course do not need to answer that unless you want to....)
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

manfred wrote:I am sad to see you talk like that. Did something bad happen to you? (You of course do not need to answer that unless you want to....)
Enoucountred too many bad and stupid people mate, especially from family and friends so screw them all
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manfred
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by manfred »

Bough down before Adam, and Iblis said no. People are often bad and even more often stupid. They are still God's most favoured creation. I have just paid for a lawyer for my great nephew who, aged 16 got caught driving his mother's car without her permission, without a licence, and without insurance. I am mad at him, but I still like him. But I do hope he gets a sentence that deters him to do that again.

At least consider this: You are no longer a young man. As you get older you will need your friends and family to be your company and to possibly even to care for you. So find your generosity and patience with others, for your own happiness.

All the angels can bow down before man, but mankind cannot even live with each other? If all the angels bow down before man, then we must learn to bow down to each other.
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Tha family is wife and kids, that's all and that's life
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manfred
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by manfred »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Tha family is wife and kids, that's all and that's life
This is true for many people. But kids grow up and start their own families, and if you are and old couple one of you will go first. In my family my mother went first, and my dad was like you in that respect, he did not care much for friends or indeed family. He used to say "Me and my wife suffice each other."

He was quite lonely the last years of his life, as all his kid lived several hours travel from him, so visits were rare. To be honest, none of us (we are three brothers) were close to him in any case, for things to do with the past. One brother lives in Canada, one in Switzerland, one in London. He lived on an island in the north of Scotland.

I went to see him perhaps once a year, and I took him for a holiday the year after my mom's death. My brother from Canada arranged for a care home in Toronto for him when he really could no longer manage, so that he could keep an eye on things. I last saw saw him a few days before his death. He was very depressed, and he never settled in into the home.

Why am I telling you all this? Friends means OPTIONS in your old age. My dad's last years could have been a lot happier.

The more friends the better. But at the end of the day, you are the master of your own life. I hope you will not take offence.
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Thanks Manfred
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Fernando
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Re: BaigZaheer and Mughal.

Post by Fernando »

And thank you from me, Manfred, for your kind words to AhmedBahgat.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah
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