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προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:54 pm
by manfred
προσκύνησις (Proskynesis) is the obligatory way to worship the "divine" Persian emperor. Alexander the Great liked it and made people worship him like that.

Image

Now, where did we see something like this before? (Except for the end bit)

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:31 pm
by Nosuperstition
The last but one part is in Islam,the last part can only be observed in the most pious of Hindus.Ordinary Hindus do not perform the last part called 'Saashtaanga namaskaaram' /Saashtaanga pranaamam or the bowing down to the deity along with eight of your body parts.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:14 am
by SAM
None of Islamic prayer five times daily belonging to Muhammad. :bow:
Fajr – the dawn prayer.
Dhuhr – the noon prayer.
Asr – the afternoon prayer.
Maghrib – the sunset prayer.
Isha'a – the night prayer.
:worthy:

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:13 am
by Hombre
SAM wrote:None of Islamic prayer five times daily belonging to Muhammad. :bow:
Fajr – the dawn prayer.
Dhuhr – the noon prayer.
Asr – the afternoon prayer.
Maghrib – the sunset prayer.
Isha'a – the night prayer.
:worthy:
If they don't belong to Muhammad - whom do they belong?. How can be an acceptable practice in Islam if not originated by Muhammad?

Fart into other people's face five times a day is hard to swallow - no?

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:29 am
by Nosuperstition
The five times praying per day is an aspect supposedly plagarised from the Parsis or Zoroastrians of Iran by Muhammed.He did not come up with it supposedly by himself.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:41 am
by SAM
Nosuperstition wrote:The five times praying per day is an aspect supposedly plagarised from the Parsis or Zoroastrians of Iran by Muhammed.He did not come up with it supposedly by himself.
Don't just blurt out and guessing, if you dont know better shuddup...

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:48 am
by manfred
Take your own advice Sam.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:04 am
by SAM
manfred wrote:Take your own advice Sam.
Every descendant of Adam regardless of race and religion without them knowing and realizing that they have done the same prayer as Muslims.

You still have many things to learn about Islamic doctrine. :whistling:

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:38 am
by manfred
:lotpot: .... even the people who live at the muddy pool where the sun sets...

Honesty, SAM, an Islamic doctrine that is provably false only makes people laugh.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:59 am
by SAM

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:55 am
by frankie
SAM

Mohammed was born a pagan and died a pagan; he changed nothing within his cultural heritage except for acknowledging the “greatest “of the pagan idols at the Kaaba as the only god, retaining all rituals from” the Pre Islamic period of ignorance” for his invention he called Islam.

Why continue with practices from a period of ignorance, if Islam came to abolish them?


Sahih Bukhari 5.58.172
Narrated 'Aisha: 'Ashura' (i.e. the tenth of Muharram) was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance. The Prophet also used to fast on this day. So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura.


Sahih Bulhari 2.26.710

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158)

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:35 am
by manfred
Prostration in Christianity, yes, for example when ordained a deacon, priest or bishop, or when making solemn final vows as monk/nun. The candidate lies on the floor and every saint in the church, one by one, is called pray for the candidates. Then they rise and the bishop/bishops confer ordination or the abbot/ abbess accepts the vows and locks them in the vault beneath the altar, where it remains to bear witness against any who break their vow.


As in προσκύνησις? No. Today that ritual is something Muslim only.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:43 am
by SAM


Same as Pope did. :lol:

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:05 pm
by frankie
SAM wrote:

Same as Pope did. :lol:


SAM

No Pope, past or present has ever performed Hajj, Ramadan or venerated a pagan relic, a stone,because the God he worships forbids pagan rituals, unlike the Islamic god Allah who advocates and condones them.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:02 pm
by SAM
manfred wrote:
Image

Jews, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists make the same prostrations by lying on the floor as number 6 shows.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:54 pm
by manfred
SAM, look at the WHOLE picture. What do you see? Salah.
I have no problems at all telling you that of course the exact form of Christian worship is something decided by people, mostly the churches as whole, but Christians do not have to follow an exact format for a prayer to be "valid".

Muslims say that their form of prayer is divinely ordained in exactly the form carried out, and even the language must be Arabic, as Allah presumably does not understand any other language.

Well, the FORM of Muslim prayer is largely borrowed from the Persian court etiquette, so unless that was divinely odered too, it is really as plain as the nose in your face that the Muslim salah has some very human origins.

What is more, as Frankie pointed out, this was also known in the early days of Islam.

But Sam, the all-knowing Islamic guru, appears to have forgotten.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:03 pm
by frankie
SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:
Image

Jews, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists make the same prostrations by lying on the floor as number 6 shows.


SAM

Religious prostration proves nothing in itself, it is who the prostration is towards what matters.

Muslims prostrate to their Islamic god,which was the chief pagan idol of the Kaaba,at the time Mohammed lived,which became the god of Islam,Muslims are the only ones to do this,no other religion does.

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:24 pm
by SAM

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:51 pm
by manfred
Do Jews say that their prayer, in the exact form they have it, has been handed to them in a direct order by God?

And if there are similarities here between salah, then which is older? Who copied who?

Re: προσκύνησις

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:32 pm
by SAM
manfred wrote:Do Jews say that their prayer, in the exact form they have it, has been handed to them in a direct order by God?

And if there are similarities here between salah, then which is older? Who copied who?
Sholat have already existed before Abraham was born.