Stories of the Prophets: Bible vs Qur'an

[Fernando]

(btw some of those big nosed actors are descendants of those Jews who were expelled from Spain in 1492 and converted to Islam. )

The true Israelites with crooked noses. It is believed that some Palestinians are true Israelites.

You may be right. In fact there few Palestinian-Muslim families in Hebron who claim to light candles on Fridays w/o knowing why. Some Israelis think they are the descendants of Jews who have been living there since Roman times and never left the city.

Well, I linked to this a couple of days ago

The news that a recent scientific paper on the common genetic roots of Jews and Palestinians had been suppressed by learned journals, because of the political sensitivity of its conclusions, made for depressing reading. Findings that might have provided reason for hope, or even for solidarity between the Arab and Israeli peoples, were instead considered too hot to handle.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/religion/2001/12/new-statesman-special-report-great-koran-con-trick

[Eagle]

... this episode is before the crucifixion.

Jesus in Matt10 states the disciples will not finish their preaching to the Israelites before the end of days. Another failed prophesy attributed to him.

Eusebius' work was published before his excommunication by the Council of Antiochia (325) for subscribing to the heresy of Arius. Prior to that and during the time he penned his work, he was never discredited by "orthodoxy", even after, most praised his staunch, over zealous evangelist and apologist positions, despite him being known for resorting to every option, not the least being dishonesty, supression of embarassing truths if not outright lies, in order to defend orthodox Christianity and Christian revised history in general. The passage in question, let alone the entire work have no connection with the doctrine of arianism anyway as it doesnt hint to the divinity of the Son (much less the NT passages loosely alluded to above, but that is another discussion). There is a reason why nobody ever argued that his omission had any connection with his alleged heretic views. His excommunication by the bishop of Alexandria had no grounds to stand on. It only satisfied Alexander's extremism and personal issues with Eusebius. Eusebius, to his own detriment, sought to appease tensions by rejecting the anti-arianism witch hunt that threatened to rip the church appart, he never endorsed Arianism. He was even a prominent member in the Council of Nicea and the confession which he proposed became the basis of the Nicene trinitarian Creed.

There is no need to go back in time riding a fiery horse 2kings2:11 to confirm that Jesus' disciples never used the supposed trinity formula in their baptisms, contrary to Jesus' instructions. That reality is stamped all over the Greek writings, including Acts 2:38,8:16,10:48,19:5.

The apocryphal Gospels were rejected because of many reasons including doubtful authorship yet the canonized scriptures arent that much more authentic. Some books are considered apocrypha by the western church and scripture by the eastern church. When comparing the canonical and apocryphal writings, it isnt a case of first-hand versus second-hand information. It is merely a choice between doctrinal points of view, with the choice being made by men with a doctrinal bias. Some have been partially preserved such as the Gospel of Thomas considered the most important non-canonical Gospel, which was for the first 2 centuries considered holy scriptures along with the gospels of Matthaias or the "The Twelve", Acts of Andrew or Acts of John, Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas (the last 2 were still included in the codex sinaiticus the earliest complete copy of the NT that is dated to around the year 350), the Didache or the Apocalypse of Peter. On the other hand rejected by the early church fathers were Paul’s letter to Philemon, the 2nd and 3rd letters of John, the 2nd letter of Peter and the General Epistle of Jude, all part of the canon after Christianity became the state religion.
The Book of Revelations was considered apocrypha for the first 200 years of the Christian Church and then suddenly was considered God-inspired.
The Epistle of St James was ignored for centuries until the Council of Trent put it in the canon in 1563. That book received a cool reception, obviously as it appeals greatly to JEwish scriptures, rejects the Pauline concept of "faith alone".
In the 2nd century, Marcion who claimed to have known Paul, composed the first NT, calling it "Evangelicon" which he attributed to Paul himself, and appended ten of Paul's epistles to it. He rejected all of Jewish scriptures, based on YHWH's cruelty versus Paul's loving god.

[manfred]

I am not sure why you are even interested in this... you should examine your own religion first.

Jesus in Matt10 states the disciples will not finish their preaching to the Israelites before the end of days. Another failed prophesy attributed to him.

Are there no churches in Israel? In fact the only place without churches is Saudi Arabia, the only place that also bans Jews.

As to Eusebius, he was a fourth century cleric who turned to Arianism, for which he was condemned. When he, as an Arian, denies the divinity of Christ, nobody should be surprised. What matters that his teachings do not agree with the beliefs of the early church.

As to that old chestnut from Acts....

"Tn the name of Christ", either refers to baptism in the faith taught by Christ, or are employed to distinguish Christian baptism from that of John the Precursor. Acts does simply not have description of an exact ancient baptism. It seems altogether unlikely that immediately after Christ had solemnly promulgated the trinitarian formula of baptism, the Apostles themselves would have substituted another. In fact, the words of St. Paul (Acts 19) imply quite plainly that they did not. In fact, all the references to baptism in acts, even if it says "in the name of Jesus" invariably the holy spirit is mentioned.

It is ludicrous to suggest that NT do not teach about the Trinity, each author does so in his own way, some more direct and some more subtly:


Connections between Father, Son, and Spirit:

Matthew 28:19 (conclusion of the Gospel) - "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..."

Luke 3:21-22 (at the baptism of Jesus) - "Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened, / and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased." (parallels in Mark 1:10-11; Matt 3:16-17; John 1:32)

John 14—16 (Last Supper Discourse) - The Holy Spirit, as the "Spirit of Truth" and the "Paraclete," is intimately related to the Father and the Son (see esp. 14:16-17; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7, 13).

Galatians 4:4-7 - "But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children. And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God."

Romans 8:14-17 - "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, "Abba! Father!" it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ--if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him."

2 Cor 13:14 (concluding prayer of the letter) - "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you."

1 John 4:2, 9, 13-15 - "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God... God's love was revealed among us in this way: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him... By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. / And we have seen and do testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. / God abides in those who confess that Jesus is the Son of God, and they abide in God."

1 Peter 1:2-3a - Peter writes to "who have been chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood: May grace and peace be yours in abundance. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!"

1 John 5:5-6 - "Who is it that conquers the world but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only but with the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one that testifies, for the Spirit is the truth."


Connections between Father and Son, showing the divinity of Jesus:

Matt 11:27 - "All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." (parallel Luke 10:22)

John 1:1-18 - Jesus Christ as the divine word/logos, the light and life of the world, the "only-begotten Son" of the Father

John 5:17-19 - "But Jesus answered them, 'My Father is still working, and I also am working.' / For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath, but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God. / Jesus said to them, 'Very truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise.' "

John 10:30, 38 - "The Father and I are one." / "...the Father is in me and I am in the Father."

John 14:8-11a - "Philip said to him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.' / Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? / Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. / Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me...' "

John 17:1b-5 - "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you, / since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. / And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. / I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do. / So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed."

Hebrews 1:1-5 - Jesus is "the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being" (v. 3); "For to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son; today I have begotten you'? (citing Psalm 2:7; repeated in Heb 5:5) Or again, 'I will be his Father, and he will be my Son'?" (citing 2 Sam 7:14)

1 John 1:3b - "...truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ."

1 John 2:22-24 - "the Son and the Father" are mentioned together four times in these short verses.


Connections between the Father and the Holy Spirit:

Luke 11:13 - " If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

John 4:23-24 - " But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Acts 2:1-36 - The Holy Spirit of God is poured out on the disciples at the feast of Pentecost (see esp. 2:33).



Also St. Ambrose declares that if a person names one of the Trinity, he names all of them: "If you say Christ, you have designated God the Father, by whom the Son was anointed, and Him Who was anointed Son, and the Holy Ghost in whom He was anointed."

As to Marcion, he took the opposite line to Arius... for him the Hebvrew God was an evil God and Jesus a good God. In other words, he was a dualist. He also introduced gnosticism into his teachings. What he did achieve was a concerted effort by the church to provide a robust response, which was amongst other things the first canon.

Next, about your comment on the Letter of St James, the Epistle is found in the Coptic, Sahidic, Ethiopic, Arabic, and Armenian versions. Although, therefore, the canonicity of the Epistle of St. James was questioned by a few during the first centuries, there are to be found from the very earliest ages, in different parts of the Church, numerous testimonies in favour of its canonicity. From the end of the third century its acceptance as inspired, and as the work of St. James, has been universal, as clearly appears from the various lists of the Sacred Books drawn up since the fourth century. It was when Martin Luther called the text a "letter of straw" and saw is as unworthy because it did not agree with his views on justifications by faith alone, that the Council of Trent re-affirmed the OLD conclusion of the church fathers that the text was genuine.

And you seem to labour under the impression that Christianity is defined by some texts... it is the other way round, the texts are defined by the Christian beliefs of the authors. The texts merely record the beliefs the early Christian held. They are merely a record, the testimony of the first Christians, and it is the duty of the priests and bishops to preserve and teach that faith to a changing world. Christianity is a living religion, living faith. Islam is not, and that is why Muslims keep playing bible scrabble with Christians. Unlike you, we do not have a recipe book for religion. Christianity can grow in insight and adapt to changing times. Islam cannot.

[Hombre]

]Well, I linked to this a couple of days ago

The news that a recent scientific paper on the common genetic roots of Jews and Palestinians had been suppressed by learned journals, because of the political sensitivity of its conclusions, made for depressing reading. Findings that might have provided reason for hope, or even for solidarity between the Arab and Israeli peoples, were instead considered too hot to handle.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/religion/2001/12/new-statesman-special-report-great-koran-con-trick

Paleastinains have been trying every trick in their book to have Islam take over Israel to put the Jews in minorities.
One tactic was to have their young man marry as many Jewish women as possible, to get Israeli citizenship & increase Muslim babies in Israel. Unlike Jews, in Islam, the child's religion goes with the father, not the mother, which would give the Pals a convenient backdoor into Israel.

As clever as Israelis are, they quickly moved to stop the Jewish women to fall for the Pal's trick. They also stipulated that, If the bride is an Arab-Muslim & Israeli citizen - the couple is "urged" to live with the Groom's family in the West Bank rather then of Israel.

[manfred]

This is a rather interesting issue to mentioned there.... If a Muslim man marries a Jewish woman, then what religion are the children? In Islamic law, they are Muslim, and under Jewish law they are Jews. So what does the Israeli government say?

[Fernando]

This is a rather interesting issue to mentioned there.... If a Muslim man marries a Jewish woman, then what religion are the children? In Islamic law, they are Muslim, and under Jewish law they are Jews. So what does the Israeli government say?

They have, of course, no religion - but that won't stop the Muslims saying that they are born Muslim, even if their parents are Christians, Zoroastrians... or probably if they are Martians, for that matter.

[SAM]

Paleastinains have been trying every trick in their book to have Islam take over Israel to put the Jews in minorities.
One tactic was to have their young man marry as many Jewish women as possible, to get Israeli citizenship & increase Muslim babies in Israel. Unlike Jews, in Islam, the child's religion goes with the father, not the mother, which would give the Pals a convenient backdoor into Israel.

As clever as Israelis are, they quickly moved to stop the Jewish women to fall for the Pal's trick. They also stipulated that, If the bride is an Arab-Muslim & Israeli citizen - the couple is "urged" to live with the Groom's family in the West Bank rather then of Israel.

When I was in Poland, Russia and Belgium, I met a Jewish girl, they seemed very happy with me after they learned that I was a Muslim. I think they love me because Muslim men are the same as Jews who are circumcised to mate.

[manfred]

Your career as a toy boy really is rather too much information.

[SAM]

Your career as a toy boy really is rather too much information.

I see you envy me. Why reject houris when they come to surrender to their free will. It is sinful to reject it.

Allah says: "those whom your right hands possess", which means non-Muslim women like Christians, Jews, etc halal for intercourse.

Life as celibacy is very futile...

[manfred]

You seem to like to tell others what to do, specially when you don't understand something.

[BaigZaheer]

This is a rather interesting issue to mentioned there.... If a Muslim man marries a Jewish woman, then what religion are the children? In Islamic law, they are Muslim, and under Jewish law they are Jews. So what does the Israeli government say?

You ask very good questions, Manfred. Could not resist answering.

There is nothing in the Hebrew or the Jewish law that a Jew can only be a Jew if his/her mother is a Jewess.

The Tanakh is clear on this and every Hebrew and Jew has been named after his father, not mother.

That a person is a Jew if his mother is a Jew, is only a strict requirement by the Zionist state for Aliya (Immigration) as that is the only way to establish a real Jew.

No Goldstones and 'Bergs' had left Israel two thousand years ago. One would not find anything like a quarter Jew or a half Jew or a three quarter Jew kind of thing in any religion. Israel does not want such Jews.

[frankie]

Eagle

The Bible gives evidence for the Trinity right from the beginning, it is not something made up by man, it is scriptural, which is why Jesus uses the term during His Ministry.

The Bible uses the Hebrew word Elohim the plural of Eloah to denote the God of the Bible, triune in nature.

Genesis 1:26-28
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Jesus was born a Jew; therefore He knew well His own scriptures, well enough to be able to quote from them throughout His ministry.

Because Jesus was Jewish He knew God as His Father, as all Jews (and Christians) still do, and prayed to God as His Father, He gave His disciples a prayer which all Christians still use today, it is called the Lord’s Prayer, or The Our Father.

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.


Jesus commanded His disciples to go and preach the Gospel baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Claiming the Trinity is not Biblical condemns Jesus as a liar, which immediately disqualifies Him as a prophet of Islam.

Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


Jesus was prophesied by Gabriel to Mary to be the Son of the Most High,i.e. Jesus will be the Son of God.

Luke 1:32

…31Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you shall give Him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”…

This was then affirmed by Jesus Himself at His trial under Caiaphas, which condemned Jesus to death.
MRK 14:61-63

61But Jesus remained silent and made no reply. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62“I am, said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sittiing at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.” 63At this, the high priest tore his clothes and declared, “Why do we need any more witnesses?…


Your argument that the Trinity is not in the Bible then cannot be substantiated, I am afraid what you have been taught as a Muslim is not true, which calls into question the sources of your knowledge, which, if it was from the God of the Bible, would not lead you to falsely believe as you do.

The god of the Quran proves it cannot be the God of the Bible which gives does give firm evidence for the Trinity throughout God’s written word, this same written word Jesus used throughout His ministry, and His final commission to His followers, which is the reason why all Christians still get baptised today, in accordance to Jesus’ command.

[BaigZaheer]

Paleastinains have been trying every trick in their book to have Islam take over Israel to put the Jews in minorities.
One tactic was to have their young man marry as many Jewish women as possible, to get Israeli citizenship & increase Muslim babies in Israel. Unlike Jews, in Islam, the child's religion goes with the father, not the mother, which would give the Pals a convenient backdoor into Israel.

As clever as Israelis are, they quickly moved to stop the Jewish women to fall for the Pal's trick. They also stipulated that, If the bride is an Arab-Muslim & Israeli citizen - the couple is "urged" to live with the Groom's family in the West Bank rather then of Israel.

When I was in Poland, Russia and Belgium, I met a Jewish girl, they seemed very happy with me after they learned that I was a Muslim. I think they love me because Muslim men are the same as Jews who are circumcised to mate.

The Jews are ok with Muslims. Islam is the Saviour of the Jews. It is the filthy Zionists (the imports) who hate Muslims.

[Hombre]

This is a rather interesting issue to mentioned there.... If a Muslim man marries a Jewish woman, then what religion are the children? In Islamic law, they are Muslim, and under Jewish law they are Jews. So what does the Israeli government say?

The woman is forced to convert to Islam - otherwise, her in-laws will treat her as Najist (not pure) and an infidel.

The more interesting part is, Palestinians are very tribal groups. Every city is dominated by a tribal-family (Hamullah). Mistrust between these tribe is so intense such that a man from Ramallah will not marry a woman from Nablus - her being from a different tribe.

Here is an op-ed written by Prof. Mordechai Kedar - a scholar on Islamic studies at Bar-Ilan University:

Developed by Dr. Mordechai Kedar, this plan allows for 1.8 million Arab Palestinians in Judea & Samaria, the West Bank, to become citizens of the seven independent city-states
Israel faces three immediate threats today: the possibility of a nuclear Iran, well over 100,000 rockets and mortars poised from three directions (Iran, Lebanon, Gaza plus terrorists in Syria and Egypt) and the Two State Solution.

The first two threats seem obvious, but why do we think that the Two State Solution could lead to the demise of our beloved Israel? After all, it's been the mainstay policy thrust upon Israel with various international initiatives and roadmaps to peace. But in reality it would bring about the opposite result.


The creation of an artificial Palestinian state requiring the uprooting of Jewish families where no Arab population currently exists would lead to indefensible borders for the Jewish homeland. The more moderate PA and Fatah want a Palestinian state as a precursor for the ultimate demise of Israel. Hamas remains opposed to any agreement which establishes a border recognizing the Israeli state. Any proposed re-unification between Hamas and Fatah is an obvious ploy that further threatens the survival of Israel and the Jewish people. The recent attacks against Israel by Hamas are now coordinated with the militant pro-Syrian, Iran-backed Islamic Jihad. Plus the Popular Resistance Committee is yet another terrorist group operating from Gaza.

The Arab Spring has brought about a much less stable region. Israel can no longer allow the rest of the world to dictate policy that makes it more difficult for the Jewish nation to survive. Israel must declare it’s own independent solution with regards to the so-called Palestinian movement and militant jihadism that appears to be on the ascendancy. Doing nothing only invites intervention from abroad.

Prior to statehood in 1948 the larger territory was known as the British Mandate of Palestine. The Jewish people, who have been on this land continuously for 3,291 years, were often referred to as the Palestinians from the early 1920's until statehood in 1948. Here are just two examples that prove this important distinction. The Palestine Post was founded by an American Jew in December 1932 in the Mandate of Palestine and supported the struggle for a Jewish Homeland. In 1950, two years after the State of Israel was declared, the paper was renamed The Jerusalem Post. And what started as the Palestine Symphony Orchestra is known today as the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra.

The Arabs who emigrated to the territory in the late 1800's and early 1900's to live and prosper among the Jews never wanted to be recognized as the Palestinians until it became a convenient tool in their opposition to the Jewish Homeland. In 1964 the PLO was formed which finally transformed the mantle of Palestinian from the pre-statehood Jews to the post-statehood Arabs.

Historically there never existed an Arab or Islamic state of Palestine with a capital in Jerusalem. The capital of "Jund Falastin" ("The District of Palestine") under the Islamic 7th century occupation was the city of Ramle, 30 kilometers to the west of Jerusalem. It is very important that this historical truth be recognized as a basis for peace.

There is no Occupied territory west of the Jordan River. There is Disputed territory as a result of wars thrust upon Israel by jealous Arab neighbors. Today Arabs live within the State of Israel and in Gaza, Judea and Samaria. These Arab population centers are not going away and neither is the State of Israel.

Gaza is already a state-like entity, since Hamas took it over by force from the PLO in June 2007, thus breaking the Palestinian Authority into two separate entities. If Israel is forced to leave Judea and Samaria as part of a peace agreement, it becomes very possible that the more militant Hamas would eventually take over from the current PA/Fatah regime just as they did in Gaza, either by elections or by force. No one can guarantee otherwise.

Due to tribal rifts and local patriotism there will never be a successful unity government among the Palestinian Arab population centers in Judea and Samaria or Gaza. Like the PLO in the past, the PA/Fatah and Hamas do not represent the true ambitions of the majority of peaceful Arabs who just want a better future for their children within a traditional framework and local governance. The failed Two State Solution is rapidly heading to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

Successful Arab leadership must be independent, local and firmly rooted with a traditional and homogenous sociological foundation. Israel and the world should recognize and support local leadership in the Arab Palestinian population centers that desire lasting peaceful relations as independent city-states. Because of ongoing corruption and an overt anti-Israel agenda, the leaders of the PLO, PA/Fatah and Hamas have devoted almost a half century in a futile attempt to eliminate Israel and destroy all that her citizens have accomplished.

The eight city-states would comprise the areas of Jenin, Nablus, Ramallah, Jericho, Tul-Karm, Kalkilya, the Arab part of Hebron and the Gaza strip. Local residents would become citizens of these eight independent countries. Any Arab leadership that attempts to circumvent or dominate the development of these Palestinian Emirates would inhibit a future of security and economic opportunity for the citizens of these eight independent countries.

The Arab refugee situation can only be solved if there is lasting stability in the region. In 1948 approximately 500,000 Arabs were uprooted in advance of an Arab attack on Israel. At the same time over 800,000 Jews were thrown out of neighboring Arab countries, and most of the Jewish refugees successfully resettled in Israel. The Arab refugees have since been discriminated against by the Arab countries in the region in conjunction with the biased policies of UNRWA, so not a single Arab refugee has ever been resettled. The former director of the refugee agency in Jordan, Sir Alexander Galloway, actually stated, “The Arab nations do not want to solve the Arab refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore… as a weapon against Israel.” The obvious failure of the peace initiatives, which have been based on false assumptions for so many decades, has only perpetuated the Arab refugee problem and human suffering.

Complex problems require simple, workable solutions. The Palestinian Emirates vision is a viable alternative based on the Arab sociology of tribalism in Gaza, Judea and Samaria. This initiative will bring about a stable peace to the region and added security for Israel.

http://www.PalestinianEmirates.com

[Hombre]

The Jews are ok with Muslims. Islam is the Saviour of the Jews. It is the filthy Zionists (the imports) who hate Muslims.

Ha!!!! Just to clarify your comment:
a) Zionism was a movement founded by Prophet Hertzl whom Allah had commanded to have Jews live in their own county on the land of their ancestors.
Since it was born in Europe and not under Islamic yoke - Muslims are quick to wedge (rather with clumsy attempt) between the European Jews whom they dub "Zionists" and their brethren ones who lived throughout the ME & N. Africa.

In other words. Those Jews who lived under Islamic rule - treated as subservient to Muslim - they are the "Good Jews". Those who did not - they are the bad Jews, because the same "Zionists" (Israeli Ashkenazis) are the ones who kick Muslims in their rear end and refuse not only bow to Muslim - also defeat & humiliate them for past 70 years.

b) By expelling them from their land - It was the Roman empire in 70 ACE who saved the Jews, not Muslims.
Otherwise, Muslims conquerer during the 6th century would have done to Jews in Israel the same thing as they did to other nations. Force convert, wipe out locals history, language, and heritage replaced by Islam and Arabic. Today's Israel would have been another Sunni Country with Arabic as sole language - much like other neighboring countries.

c) Jews do not poison the mind and soul of their children with hatred of others. History of persecution & holocaust clearly has demonstrated these characters which serve Israeli population well - the very reason Israeli children are emotionally & mentally balanced - despite the continued attacks from the Pals.

[SAM]

Ha!!!! Just to clarify your comment:
c) Jews do not poison the mind and soul of their children with hatred of others. History of persecution & holocaust clearly has demonstrated these characters which serve Israeli population well - the very reason Israeli children are emotionally & mentally balanced - despite the continued attacks from the Pals.

Watch it ... how the Zionist Ashkenazi in Israel operates by hatred brainwashing and indoctrination to children of devil; teaching them to hate the Palestinians and Arabs.

[sum]

Hello SAM

Your quote -
Watch it ... how the Zionist Ashkenazi in Israel operates by hatred brainwashing and indoctrination to children of devil; teaching them to hate the Palestinians and Arabs.

You make it clear that you acknowledge the reality of the concept and effectiveness of brainwashing and indoctrination. Therefore you will have to accept that muslim children are also indoctrinated and brainwashed into hating Jews and all non-Islam. Indoctrination and brainwashing are the only reason that Islam exists. No normal sane mature adult would ever consider Islam to be a valid religion but would quickly realise that Islam is nothing more than 7th century Arab imperialism.

sum

[manfred]

I watched that, and there was nothing any adult told the children about the "Palestinians". They asked questions and the kids responded, well, as kids do. "Did you talk to any Arab boys recently?" A number of hands went up, and one responded "I tried to, but he pushed me."

There was also a discussion about the temple being rebuilt, and many enthusiastically said they would like to see that. However, this in NOT something promoted by many religious leaders in Israel at all. In fact the chief rabbi of Jerusalem even issued a notice to forbid Jews to go to the Temple mount:



So how exactly do you rebuild anything if you are not allowed to go there?

As to the appropriateness of Al Aqsa, to be fair, when it was built, only few Jewish people lived in the area, so some suggest no offence was intended when it was built. However, the mosque is a statement of conquest, and complete conquest, land body and mind. Nothing of the ancient history and culture was meant to survive in the whole area. Muslims have done the same thing in all the lands they entered. The destruction of the all traces of the Buddhist past in Afghanistan is an example.

If the Jews were like the Muslims, they would have turned all the mosques and churches into synagogues. In reality Israel is the only place in the entire region with true freedom of and from religion.

As hombre pointed out, the Jews survived the Muslim onslaught because of their dispersion. Strange how a tragedy sometimes also has an unexpected "silver lining", isn't it, SAM?

So the kids in that class do not like Al Aqsa. Well, I agree with them. It is an ugly, triumphalist thing, showing disrespect to Jewish culture and beliefs. It is anti-Semitism in stone.

But the fact that the Jewish state, being quite aware of that, has left it alone, shows you how different they are from the ones who built it.

[SAM]

I watched that, and there was nothing any adult told the children about the "Palestinians". They asked questions and the kids responded, well, as kids do. "Did you talk to any Arab boys recently?" A number of hands went up, and one responded "I tried to, but he pushed me."

There was also a discussion about the temple being rebuilt, and many enthusiastically said they would like to see that. However, this in NOT something promoted by many religious leaders in Israel at all. In fact the chief rabbi of Jerusalem even issued a notice to forbid Jews to go to the Temple mount:



So how exactly do you rebuild anything if you are not allowed to go there?

As to the appropriateness of Al Aqsa, to be fair, when it was built, only few Jewish people lived in the area, so some suggest no offence was intended when it was built. However, the mosque is a statement of conquest, and complete conquest, land body and mind. Nothing of the ancient history and culture was meant to survive in the whole area. Muslims have done the same thing in all the lands they entered. The destruction of the all traces of the Buddhist past in Afghanistan is an example.

If the Jews were like the Muslims, they would have turned all the mosques and churches into synagogues. In reality Israel is the only place in the entire region with true freedom of and from religion.

As hombre pointed out, the Jews survived the Muslim onslaught because of their dispersion. Strange how a tragedy sometimes also has an unexpected "silver lining", isn't it, SAM?

So the kids in that class do not like Al Aqsa. Well, I agree with them. It is an ugly, triumphalist thing, showing disrespect to Jewish culture and beliefs. It is anti-Semitism in stone.

But the fact that the Jewish state, being quite aware of that, has left it alone, shows you how different they are from the ones who built it.

About 3,000 years ago, King David conquered Jerusalem from Palestine and established a capital of the Kingdom there with bloodshed. And the Ashkenazi Jews followed the footsteps of David who captured Jerusalem with bloodshed. The Christians conquered Jerusalem with bloodshed during the Crusades. Khalifah Umar took Jerusalem from the Patriarch without bloodshed.

[Hombre]

Watch it ... how the Zionist Ashkenazi in Israel operates by hatred brainwashing and indoctrination to children of devil; teaching them to hate the Palestinians and Arabs.

These children are parochial from religious school. sum & manford aptly pointed out very well.

Now, I want you to watch these youtube clips which I search for you. Watch & lick your chops with envy.

A Muslim woman describes with emotional fervor how an Israeli soldier who entered a house brought food to her relative holding a malnourished baby. Her words - not mine


"My Name is Muhamad. I am an Arab-Muslim and I am proud Israeli Zionist".


What is Zionism?