The Polytheists are Visible

[manfred]

Hi, I had another look, but so far no Zahaer yet. I have a hospital appointment later, but when I am back I look again.

[AhmedBahgat]

Hi, I had another look, but so far no Zahaer yet. I have a hospital appointment later, but when I am back I look again.

Thank you

BaigZaheer or ZaheerBaig

[manfred]

Found it. Up and running, with no new user restrictions.

[AhmedBahgat]

Found it. Up and running, with no new user restrictions.

Thanks mate, he is really a nice 70 years old man who should be respected by younger people especially when his language of speech is totally different to mine

[BaigZaheer]

Thanks, Ahmed and Manfred.

Returning after so many years. Good to see you guys.

[BaigZaheer]

My new provocative song that I just released humiliating the polytheists who worship hadith and sunnah

Well done, Ahmed. True that and I am dealing with most of these Mushrikoons else where and I get called Qur'aani, Qur'aniyoon, Qur;aanist, Qur'aan only and Kafir. LOL!

Blithering idiots do not realise that it is Qur'aan which is the Scripture of Islam and is obligatory on every Muslim, while Hadith Collections compiled by the tale-collectors are not at all obligatory. So many ridiculous and absurd ahaadith litter those books.

La'anatallahe alal mushrikoona wal munafiqoon! (Curse of Allah be upon these Mushrikoons and Munafiqoons)

[BaigZaheer]

Found it. Up and running, with no new user restrictions.

Thanks mate, he is really a nice 70 years old man who should be respected by younger people especially when his language of speech is totally different to mine

72 to be precise.

[manfred]

It is nice to have new members. Bring all your friends too!

[BaigZaheer]

Thanks, Manfred for a warm welcome.

[pr126]

Welcome.

Hope you stay and post.

[BaigZaheer]

Welcome.

Hope you stay and post.

Sure and thanks.

[sum]

Hello BaigZaheer

A very warm welcome to you.

I would like to ask you if there is anything in the Koran with which you disagree? I am concerned that the Koran calls me the vilest of all creatures and wants me to convert or be killed because I not believe that Allah exists or that Muhammad was a prophet.

We are constantly told how tolerant Islam is but Allah seems to be extremely intolerant.

I ask your friend, AhmedBahgat, questions but as often as not he just replies that he is too busy with his longstanding itch.

I hope that you are more forthcoming with replies.

sum

[frankie]

Baig Zaheer

I would like to ask you the same question I asked your friend, Ahmed Baghat,to which I got this reply, which is not very helpful ,and does not exactly prove he is serious about his faith.

“Hahahaha
Keep it itchy Frankie”

It is disappointing when Muslims come on this discussion board who profess to be serious about their faith Islam, but then shy away from answering the simplest of questions put to them about it.


“If you are a Quran only Muslim, then you have no way of knowing how to emulate the man you call prophet, who the Quran tells you “is an excellent pattern of conduct.”

Mohammed is the man who understood the Quran and put it into action the way Allah intended.

How can you do the same, if you do not follow the ways and example of this man who is your role model in all things Islamic?”

[BaigZaheer]

Hello BaigZaheer

A very warm welcome to you.

I would like to ask you if there is anything in the Koran with which you disagree? I am concerned that the Koran calls me the vilest of all creatures and wants me to convert or be killed because I not believe that Allah exists or that Muhammad was a prophet.

We are constantly told how tolerant Islam is but Allah seems to be extremely intolerant.

I ask your friend, AhmedBahgat, questions but as often as not he just replies that he is too busy with his longstanding itch.

I hope that you are more forthcoming with replies.

sum

Thank you for the warm welcome. I agree with everything that Qur'aan says. It does not call you as the vilest of all creatures and does not call for converting you forcibly or calls for getting you or anyone killed. God has used that kind of language through out the Scriptures for people who behaved like animals.

It refers to those who were believers and yet stooped extremely low back then. Islam is tolerant but the world is not. So, you cannot say that exclusively for Islam.

Yes, Ahmed is always busy and so am I and I will try to reply whenever I can.

[BaigZaheer]

Baig Zaheer

I would like to ask you the same question I asked your friend, Ahmed Baghat,to which I got this reply, which is not very helpful ,and does not exactly prove he is serious about his faith.

“Hahahaha
Keep it itchy Frankie”

It is disappointing when Muslims come on this discussion board who profess to be serious about their faith Islam, but then shy away from answering the simplest of questions put to them about it.


“If you are a Quran only Muslim, then you have no way of knowing how to emulate the man you call prophet, who the Quran tells you “is an excellent pattern of conduct.”

Mohammed is the man who understood the Quran and put it into action the way Allah intended.

How can you do the same, if you do not follow the ways and example of this man who is your role model in all things Islamic?”

I can give you a short reply on this as I will be busy again:

You can ask anything as long as we can have a civil exchange.

For a Muslim, two things are very important and obligatory. Qur'aan and the Sunnah (the Way) shown by the Prophet.

Sunnah was passed from one generation to the next and while that was being done for 250 plus years, Muslims were doing everything according to Qur'aan and the Sunnah, without any Hadith tale collections.

All Hadith tale collectors like Bukhari, Muslim, Dawood, Ibn Ma'aja and others came from Central Asia. Whatever they heard, they lumped into their collections and many ridiculous, absurd ahaadith (plural of hadith) entered their collections through motor-mouths and Israeliyyaat, meaning tales coming from the Jews, Christians, converts and kafirs (pagans).

All the codes and conduct are there in Qur'aan and we emulate the Prophet through it and the Sunnah.

Please note that Hadith is not Sunnah, and Sunnah is not Hadith. Qur'aan IS The Scripture of Islam but Hadith is not!

Hope this helped.

Edited to add: Men like Ibne Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, Muslim, Dawood, Ibne Ma'aja and others were no scholars of Islam.

[frankie]

Baig Zaheer

I would like to ask you the same question I asked your friend, Ahmed Baghat,to which I got this reply, which is not very helpful ,and does not exactly prove he is serious about his faith.

“Hahahaha
Keep it itchy Frankie”

It is disappointing when Muslims come on this discussion board who profess to be serious about their faith Islam, but then shy away from answering the simplest of questions put to them about it.


“If you are a Quran only Muslim, then you have no way of knowing how to emulate the man you call prophet, who the Quran tells you “is an excellent pattern of conduct.”

Mohammed is the man who understood the Quran and put it into action the way Allah intended.

How can you do the same, if you do not follow the ways and example of this man who is your role model in all things Islamic?”

I can give you a short reply on this as I will be busy again:

You can ask anything as long as we can have a civil exchange.

For a Muslim, two things are very important and obligatory. Qur'aan and the Sunnah (the Way) shown by the Prophet.

Sunnah was passed from one generation to the next and while that was being done for 250 plus years, Muslims were doing everything according to Qur'aan and the Sunnah, without any Hadith tale collections.

All Hadith tale collectors like Bukhari, Muslim, Dawood, Ibn Ma'aja and others came from Central Asia. Whatever they heard, they lumped into their collections and many ridiculous, absurd ahaadith (plural of hadith) entered their collections through motor-mouths and Israeliyyaat, meaning tales coming from the Jews, Christians, converts and kafirs (pagans).

All the codes and conduct are there in Qur'aan and we emulate the Prophet through it and the Sunnah.

Please note that Hadith is not Sunnah, and Sunnah is not Hadith. Qur'aan IS The Scripture of Islam but Hadith is not!

Hope this helped.

Edited to add: Men like Ibne Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, Muslim, Dawood, Ibne Ma'aja and others were no scholars of Islam.

Baig Zaheer.

Fair enough.

Where is the Sunnah found,and who wrote it?

Please provide the web link which you and all Muslims read showing the Sunnah,so that everyone reading this thread can see exactly what you are referring to.

[sum]

Hello BaigZaheer

You say that the Koran does not regard me as the vilest of all creatures. You are wrong and you know it. You say that it refers to those who believed then disbelieved but I do not see this in the Koran. Perhaps you could point it out for me.

The Koran clearly states that people like me are to convert or be killed. You know that it does.

You go on to say that all religions used language like I claim that the Koran does but by your very words you are admitting that the Koran does make the threats and descriptions that I claim that it does.

If Islam is tolerant as you claim then please explain why Christians in muslim majority countries are being routinely oppressed and subjected to all sorts of atrocities.

sum

[manfred]

All Hadith tale collectors like Bukhari, Muslim, Dawood, Ibn Ma'aja and others came from Central Asia. Whatever they heard, they lumped into their collections and many ridiculous, absurd ahaadith (plural of hadith) entered their collections through motor-mouths and Israeliyyaat, meaning tales coming from the Jews, Christians, converts and kafirs (pagans).

Hi, there are questions around this idea....

First of all, does someone's place of birth (such as Central Asia) automatically make a person dishonest? What religion did Bukhari follow, for example? Do you think he tried to harm Islam with his collection?

Sure, he may not have got all things right, nobody is perfect, but I would be surprised to discover he was some kind of enemy of Islam.

And we are given "lines of transmission" for any hadith, and often we get two or more or such chains telling very similar accounts. Would that not suggest that at least the basic information of THOSE must be correct, on the balance of probability.

I do not know any one hadith written by a a Jew or Christian or a "kafir". Can you show me one example? And why is a convert to Islam not a trustworthy person? This is specially interesting to read, for me, and I would like to understand the reasoning here.

[Takeiteasynow]

Actually I was on the same track and these questions are the ones I would like to ask too. But I have a few others.

BaigZaheer wrote:

Edited to add: Men like Ibne Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, Muslim, Dawood, Ibne Ma'aja and others were no scholars of Islam.

These scholars all belong to the Abbasid period. I am curious to know if a Qur'anic-Sunnah muslim accepts the earliest Islamic traditions in regard to eschatology; Islamic eschatology starts with prophet Harun, Lake Tiberias and the final Armageddon-hypothesis in Northwestern Syria and most of these traditions were recorded around 650.

And could a Muslim, following the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, accept a new biography of Muhammad or even a new original location of the Kaaba if the creed would not change?

[Fernando]

For a Muslim, two things are very important and obligatory. Qur'aan and the Sunnah (the Way) shown by the Prophet.

Sunnah was passed from one generation to the next and while that was being done for 250 plus years, Muslims were doing everything according to Qur'aan and the Sunnah, without any Hadith tale collections

Where then do the stories in the Sunnah come from, if they are not part of the collection of hadiths? Have the hadith collections somehow missed out the stories found in the Sunnah, as you seem to be suggesting?