The Polytheists are Visible

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by sum »

Hello BaigZaheer

The following should help you to understand what muslims are doing with respect to the death penalty -

Christians ‘Crucified Again’ for Refusing Islam
By Raymond Ibrahim on May 5, 2014 in Islam, Muslim Persecution of Christians

The supporting photos have not been included.

To the awe of its readership, a recent Daily Mail article reports that the “jihadist Islamic State of Iraq and Levant [ISIL],” which is currently entrenched in Raqqa, Syria, “publicly crucified two Syrian rebels in northeastern Syria in revenge for a grenade attack on members of their group.”

A still frame from the 1919 documentary film Auction of Souls, which portrayed eye witnessed events from the Armenian Genocide, including crucified Christian girls.
While the Daily Mail is to be commended for exposing these barbaric acts—along with posting photos of the crucified—it nonetheless minimized their significance, in two important ways: 1) by repeatedly saying things like “even al-Qaeda is distancing itself from ISIL,” and so implying that the act of crucifixion is some wild aberration that even the poster-child of jihadi terror, al-Qaeda, wants nothing to do with it; and 2) ignoring the much “sexier” story that Christians in Syria are also being crucified simply for refusing to embrace Islam (as opposed to the rather mundane but politically more correct story of jihadis crucifying each other in the context of vendetta killings).

Consider the atrocities earlier committed in Ma‘loula, Syria, an ancient Christian village where the inhabitants still spoke Aramaic, the language of Christ.
According to recent Arabic news media, “a Syrian nun testified to the Vatican news agency that some Christians in Ma‘loula were crucified for refusing to convert to Islam or pay jizya” (tribute subjugated Christians are required to pay to their Islamic conquerors in order to exist as Christians, per Koran 9:29).
Incidentally, they were crucified by the al-Qaeda linked Nasra Front (so much for Daily Mail’s portrayal of al-Qaeda “distancing” itself from the apparently “extra-extremist” ISIL for crucifying its victims).

Sister Raghad, the former head of the Patriarchate School in Damascus who currently resides in France, told Vatican Radio how she personally witnessed jihadi rebels terrorize Ma‘loula, including by pressuring Christians to proclaim the shehada—Islam’s credo that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger—which, when uttered before Muslim witnesses transforms the speaker into a Muslim, with the death penalty for apostasy should the convert later “renege” by returning to Christianity.
According to the nun, those Christians who refused to embrace Islam were
killed in atrocious and violent ways that cannot be described.
If you want examples, they crucified two youths in Ma‘loula for refusing to proclaim Islam’s credo, saying to them: “Perhaps you want to die like your teacher [Christ] whom you believe in? You have two choices: either proclaim the shehada or else be crucified.” One of them was crucified before his father, whom they also killed.

In fact, according to earlier media reports from October 2013, soon after Ma‘loula fell to the jihadis, one “shaky voiced” elderly Christian man had reported that he heard the invading jihadis shouting, “Convert to Islam, or you will be crucified like Jesus.”

It is, of course, a documented fact that some Christians in Ma‘loula were put to death for refusing to convert to Islam, such as Minas, an Armenian man, while other families succumbed to pressure and converted to Islam.

But it is not clear whether the two crucified Christians mentioned by the nun are among the three men in Ma‘loula who, according to Asia News, “refused to repudiate their religion” and thus “were summarily executed in public”—so many and varied were the barbaric acts, including beheadings, rape, and infanticide during the rebel occupation, not to mention the other massacres in other Christian regions the mainstream media failed to report on.
These three were declared martyrs by the Syrian Greek-Catholic Church, or as Patriarch Gregorios III explained to Pope Francis in a meeting: “Holy Father, they are true martyrs. Ordered to give up their faith, they proudly refused. Three others however gave in and were forced to declare themselves Muslim, but later returned to the faith of their ancestors.”

For his part, and according to a May 3rd Arabic report, Pope Francis recently said, “I wept when I saw reports saying that Christians were being crucified in some non-Christian countries.”
The fact is, crucifixion is a prescribed form of punishment in the Koran (5:33) and occurs throughout the Islamic world with much greater frequency than suggested by the Daily Mail. For example:
• Iraq, June 2008: A Canadian parliamentary committee heard about how “militant Muslims” were crucifying Christian children in order to terrorize Christians into fleeing Iraq: “Since the war began in 2003, about 12 children, many as young as 10, have been kidnapped and killed, then nailed to makeshift crosses near their homes to terrify and torment their parents.”
• Ivory Coast, May 2011: Two Christian peasant brothers were “brutally crucified” on “the example of Christ” by Muslim forces accusing them of being supportive of the ousted Christian president. One died, while the other survived: “The pair were badly beaten and tortured before being crudely nailed to cross-shaped planks by their hands and feet with steel spikes.”
• Egypt, August 2012: Multiple media agencies reported that during one uprisal against Islamist president Muhammad Morsi, Muslim Brotherhood operatives crucified some protesters on trees. Earlier, a Salafi MP in Egypt called for the penal codification of crucifixion.
• Yemen, August 2012: A video of a man crucified on the accusation of spying for the U.S. appeared. A sign placed above his head quotes Koran 5:33: “The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.”

Of course, if one delves into Islamic history, one learns that crucifixions were extremely common. For example, Witnesses For Christ: Orthodox Christian Neomartyrs of the Ottoman Period 1437-1860 lists crucifixion as one of the many forms thousands of Christians were executed by the Muslim Turks.

And in her memoir, Ravished Armenia, Aurora Mardiganian described how in the early twentieth century in the city of Malatia, she saw 16 girls crucified, vultures eating their corpses: “Each girl had been nailed alive upon her cross, spikes through her feet and hands,” wrote the Armenian survivor. “Only their hair blown by the wind covered their bodies.”

Prescribed in the Koran itself, crucifixions are as old as Islam and, with the global revival of the latter, are returning with increased frequency. And, although it is more politically correct to report on jihadis crucifying other jihadis—other terrorists or “spies”—the fact is, many more innocent Christians are being crucified again, including simply for refusing to embrace Islam and thus renounce Christ.

sum
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Let me get this thread back on track

Enjoy my latest production

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BaigZaheer
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by BaigZaheer »

sum wrote:Hello BaigZaheer

The following should help you to understand what muslims are doing with respect to the death penalty -

Christians ‘Crucified Again’ for Refusing Islam
By Raymond Ibrahim on May 5, 2014 in Islam, Muslim Persecution of Christians

The supporting photos have not been included.

To the awe of its readership, a recent Daily Mail article reports that the “jihadist Islamic State of Iraq and Levant [ISIL],” which is currently entrenched in Raqqa, Syria, “publicly crucified two Syrian rebels in northeastern Syria in revenge for a grenade attack on members of their group.”

A still frame from the 1919 documentary film Auction of Souls, which portrayed eye witnessed events from the Armenian Genocide, including crucified Christian girls.
While the Daily Mail is to be commended for exposing these barbaric acts—along with posting photos of the crucified—it nonetheless minimized their significance, in two important ways: 1) by repeatedly saying things like “even al-Qaeda is distancing itself from ISIL,” and so implying that the act of crucifixion is some wild aberration that even the poster-child of jihadi terror, al-Qaeda, wants nothing to do with it; and 2) ignoring the much “sexier” story that Christians in Syria are also being crucified simply for refusing to embrace Islam (as opposed to the rather mundane but politically more correct story of jihadis crucifying each other in the context of vendetta killings).

Consider the atrocities earlier committed in Ma‘loula, Syria, an ancient Christian village where the inhabitants still spoke Aramaic, the language of Christ.
According to recent Arabic news media, “a Syrian nun testified to the Vatican news agency that some Christians in Ma‘loula were crucified for refusing to convert to Islam or pay jizya” (tribute subjugated Christians are required to pay to their Islamic conquerors in order to exist as Christians, per Koran 9:29).
Incidentally, they were crucified by the al-Qaeda linked Nasra Front (so much for Daily Mail’s portrayal of al-Qaeda “distancing” itself from the apparently “extra-extremist” ISIL for crucifying its victims).

Sister Raghad, the former head of the Patriarchate School in Damascus who currently resides in France, told Vatican Radio how she personally witnessed jihadi rebels terrorize Ma‘loula, including by pressuring Christians to proclaim the shehada—Islam’s credo that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger—which, when uttered before Muslim witnesses transforms the speaker into a Muslim, with the death penalty for apostasy should the convert later “renege” by returning to Christianity.
According to the nun, those Christians who refused to embrace Islam were
killed in atrocious and violent ways that cannot be described.
If you want examples, they crucified two youths in Ma‘loula for refusing to proclaim Islam’s credo, saying to them: “Perhaps you want to die like your teacher [Christ] whom you believe in? You have two choices: either proclaim the shehada or else be crucified.” One of them was crucified before his father, whom they also killed.

In fact, according to earlier media reports from October 2013, soon after Ma‘loula fell to the jihadis, one “shaky voiced” elderly Christian man had reported that he heard the invading jihadis shouting, “Convert to Islam, or you will be crucified like Jesus.”

It is, of course, a documented fact that some Christians in Ma‘loula were put to death for refusing to convert to Islam, such as Minas, an Armenian man, while other families succumbed to pressure and converted to Islam.

But it is not clear whether the two crucified Christians mentioned by the nun are among the three men in Ma‘loula who, according to Asia News, “refused to repudiate their religion” and thus “were summarily executed in public”—so many and varied were the barbaric acts, including beheadings, rape, and infanticide during the rebel occupation, not to mention the other massacres in other Christian regions the mainstream media failed to report on.
These three were declared martyrs by the Syrian Greek-Catholic Church, or as Patriarch Gregorios III explained to Pope Francis in a meeting: “Holy Father, they are true martyrs. Ordered to give up their faith, they proudly refused. Three others however gave in and were forced to declare themselves Muslim, but later returned to the faith of their ancestors.”

For his part, and according to a May 3rd Arabic report, Pope Francis recently said, “I wept when I saw reports saying that Christians were being crucified in some non-Christian countries.”
The fact is, crucifixion is a prescribed form of punishment in the Koran (5:33) and occurs throughout the Islamic world with much greater frequency than suggested by the Daily Mail. For example:
• Iraq, June 2008: A Canadian parliamentary committee heard about how “militant Muslims” were crucifying Christian children in order to terrorize Christians into fleeing Iraq: “Since the war began in 2003, about 12 children, many as young as 10, have been kidnapped and killed, then nailed to makeshift crosses near their homes to terrify and torment their parents.”
• Ivory Coast, May 2011: Two Christian peasant brothers were “brutally crucified” on “the example of Christ” by Muslim forces accusing them of being supportive of the ousted Christian president. One died, while the other survived: “The pair were badly beaten and tortured before being crudely nailed to cross-shaped planks by their hands and feet with steel spikes.”
• Egypt, August 2012: Multiple media agencies reported that during one uprisal against Islamist president Muhammad Morsi, Muslim Brotherhood operatives crucified some protesters on trees. Earlier, a Salafi MP in Egypt called for the penal codification of crucifixion.
• Yemen, August 2012: A video of a man crucified on the accusation of spying for the U.S. appeared. A sign placed above his head quotes Koran 5:33: “The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.”

Of course, if one delves into Islamic history, one learns that crucifixions were extremely common. For example, Witnesses For Christ: Orthodox Christian Neomartyrs of the Ottoman Period 1437-1860 lists crucifixion as one of the many forms thousands of Christians were executed by the Muslim Turks.

And in her memoir, Ravished Armenia, Aurora Mardiganian described how in the early twentieth century in the city of Malatia, she saw 16 girls crucified, vultures eating their corpses: “Each girl had been nailed alive upon her cross, spikes through her feet and hands,” wrote the Armenian survivor. “Only their hair blown by the wind covered their bodies.”

Prescribed in the Koran itself, crucifixions are as old as Islam and, with the global revival of the latter, are returning with increased frequency. And, although it is more politically correct to report on jihadis crucifying other jihadis—other terrorists or “spies”—the fact is, many more innocent Christians are being crucified again, including simply for refusing to embrace Islam and thus renounce Christ.

sum
Hello, sum

I have already told you that that crucifixion Ala Romans has no place in Qur'aan and Islam, and not even in the East.

In a war zone, anything goes. The word 'to crucify' is used to show hanging up a person in the translation of Arabic.

Pharaoh used to hang people up trees. He did not have them nailed up on a cross. LOL!

I have also said earlier that Christians all over the world are not the same as some civilised Christians in a few Christian countries. The majority in the backward countries are not so nice , they are crude, violent and volatile like their Muslim counterparts.

I have already told you that there is only one death punishment prescribed in Qur'aan and that is for pre-meditated murder and I have also told you that there are many ways to kill a condemned person. Christians are killing Christians in America and other Christian countries. They are gunning down their own, Muslims, Jews and even Sikhs, thinking that they are Muslims. :lol:

So, please cut this out and come up with something else which you want to understand.
Last edited by BaigZaheer on Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BaigZaheer
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by BaigZaheer »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Let me get this thread back on track

Enjoy my latest production

Glad to see that, mate. Had been to Malaysia.

The US regime would consider you fit to be a Drone Operator for the killing fields in Afghanistan.
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AhmedBahgat
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by AhmedBahgat »

BaigZaheer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:Let me get this thread back on track

Enjoy my latest production

Glad to see that, mate. Had been to Malaysia.

The US regime would consider you fit to be a Drone Operator for the killing fields in Afghanistan.
Haha
sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by sum »

Hello BaigZaheer

You are being very very dishonest about crucifixion. It is in the Koran, Koran 5:33. Why did you use the words `Ala Romans`? Is this some way of saying that, yes, muslims do crucify but not in the way of `Ala Romans` and so avoid the central truth of muslims crucifying people in line with the Koran? Please delete `Ala Romans` from your reply and tell me if muslims had a `more gentle and humane` method of crucifixion. If you insist that there is no place in Islam for crucifixion and that you are a scholar of Islam then you are simply a liar.

You are still running away from telling me the method of execution for those deemed to be executed. Why is this? As a scholar of Islam this should be well known to you.

Tell me. How are people to be executed according to the Koran or does it not say apart from crucifixion?

sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by sum »

Hello BaigZaheer

Just a bit more for you -

http://www.renaissance.com.pk/febrefl94.html#_ftn2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; below

The Islamic Manifesto
(A Declaration of War against the Present World)
Javed Ahmad Ghamidi/
(Tr. by Shehzad Saleem)

At The Penal Level
1. All those criminals who take the law into their own hands, become a nuisance for the state, adopt immodesty and profligacy as a profession, become notorious for their ill ways and vulgarity, commit rape, become a threat to honourable people because of their immoral and dissolute practices, openly disgrace women due to their social status, cause destruction, are a source of terror and intimidation for the people, are guilty of killings, robbery, decoity and hijacking, or create a law and order situation for the government by committing other similar crimes should be severely dealt with. They should be administered the punishments of Taqteel 2 crucifixion, chopping off limbs on alternate sides, and exile which are specifically prescribed for such criminals in verses 33-34 of Surah Maidah.

sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Hello Dr Sum

Do you have anything to say about my videos?

Cheers
sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by sum »

Hello my good friend AhmedBahgat

Yes, the vids are good. Is that your daughter, son-in-law and their dog?

sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by Fernando »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Let me get this thread back on track

Enjoy my latest production
Thanks - very enjoyable. Quite hypnotic at the beginning, then a bit dizzying later!
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by AhmedBahgat »

sum wrote:Hello my good friend AhmedBahgat

Yes, the vids are good. Is that your daughter, son-in-law and their dog?

sum
Yes she is my step daughter
sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by sum »

Hello BaigZaheer

You have said that "striking necks" is in warfare. Can you show me how you, as a Koran-only muslim, know this? What is your source of information?

sum
sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by sum »

Hello BaigZaheer

Come on, BaigZaheer, answer my question.

How do you know that striking necks is only in warfare?

sum
sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by sum »

Hello BaigZaheer

You are running away from questions that I am asking. Can`t you, even as a scholar, answer them?

Please tell me how you know that striking necks as in the Koran is only in warfare and not for execution?

I am waiting for your reply just as the guests to the forum will be.

sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by AhmedBahgat »

You are confused Dr Sum

Striking the necks was a command from Allah to His angels and not to the humans

الانفال:١٢ إذ يوحي ربك إلى الملائكة أني معكم فثبتوا الذين آمنوا سألقي في قلوب الذين كفروا الرعب فاضربوا فوق الأعناق واضربوا منهم كل بنان

8: 12 When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, so make firm those who have believed. I will throw into the hearts of those who have disbelieved horror. So strike above the necks and strike from them every fingertip.


Your argument is dismissed
sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by sum »

Hello my dismissive friend, AhmedBahgat

Do you know what the method of execution is according to the Koran for those deemed to be executed?

Do you agree with your friend BaigZaheer who said that any method can be used to execute people?

If striking necks is only for angels in warfare what is left, apart from crucifixion? Do you believe that any method of killing is acceptable?

sum
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Dr sum

The Quran never mentioned a method of execution unlike the OT, for example in the OT stoning to death is a method of execution and it seems the satanic hadith worshippers stole it from there

And no, I don't agree with any method of execution and I will not suggest any method of execution other than the guilty smells your bum, that is enough to kill him

Cheers
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BaigZaheer
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by BaigZaheer »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Dr sum

The Quran never mentioned a method of execution unlike the OT, for example in the OT stoning to death is a method of execution and it seems the satanic hadith worshippers stole it from there

And no, I don't agree with any method of execution and I will not suggest any method of execution other than the guilty smells your bum, that is enough to kill him

Cheers
Glad to see you, mate.

:lol:
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BaigZaheer
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by BaigZaheer »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Dr sum

The Quran never mentioned a method of execution unlike the OT, for example in the OT stoning to death is a method of execution and it seems the satanic hadith worshippers stole it from there

And no, I don't agree with any method of execution and I will not suggest any method of execution other than the guilty smells your bum, that is enough to kill him

Cheers
The OT has horrible and atrocious punishments. Hadith lovers got it from Hadith about the adulterous Jews who were brought to the Prophet and he was asked to sentence them but he told them to follow the Torah. And the silly story-tellers made it up as they were Muslims. Bogus and absurd ahaadith.
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BaigZaheer
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Re: The Polytheists are Visible

Post by BaigZaheer »

sum wrote:Hello my dismissive friend, AhmedBahgat

Do you know what the method of execution is according to the Koran for those deemed to be executed?

Do you agree with your friend BaigZaheer who said that any method can be used to execute people?

If striking necks is only for angels in warfare what is left, apart from crucifixion? Do you believe that any method of killing is acceptable?

sum
How many times do I have to tell you that Qur'aan does not describe the method of killing a person.

There is no record in the history of Arabs that they crucified people by tying and nailing them up on a cross. Timber was a very precious item back then.
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