Quran and child development. This kinda looks convincing.

[MohamedLuq93]

Hi, so came across this video and the content kinda convinces me. Anyhow, something in me says this is trash. Can someone debunk this for me ? Any Arabic experts here ?

The video link- https://youtu.be/HdqpxdEeDdU

To save time - I'll write down the important stuff that should be focused on.

1. the Holy Quran even talks about the process of phagocytosis Cells ingesting or engulfing one another Followed by their combination or disintegration That is used to form the zygote, in its verses. As you will note, the Quran refers to chewed matter in the verse on embryology. This chewed matter is a well-known medical term and an analogy For the mechanism of phagocytosis. So just as the zygote is formed due to the ingestion of the sperm by the female egg And the mixing of this ingested matter with the female DNA The chewed matter, the analogy given in the Holy Quran, Follows the same process as it to refers to the mixing of ingested matter with saliva Resulting in a new combination ( formation ). Essentially, using analogous terms The Quran is telling us about the process by which the zygote is formed.

2. The holy Quran not only stated the specific sequence of events that lead to embryo creation But also stated with 100% accuracy That during embryonic development the bones are formed first and then the flesh of muscles. “And certainly did We, God, Allah create man from an extract of clay. Then We placed him as a “watery bit of semen” in a firm lodging. Then We made the watery part of the semen a “creature that can attach” Then We made the “creature that can attach” a “chewed matter” Then We made the “chewed matter”, bones And We covered the bones with flesh Then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators. In Developmental Approaches to Human Evolution published in 2016 By Professor Julia Boughner, from the Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology At the University of Saskatchewan And professor Campbell Rolian in anatomy in the Department of Comparative Biology And Experimental Medicine in the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Calgary, We find research that is consistent with the Quran’s claims. The two professors studied homologies, evolution And the development of the striated muscles of all of the major groups of vertebrates And the spatial associations between them and bones/cartilages. They stated that among tetrapod groups, humans are tetrapods, by the way The signaling for limb and bone development usually precedes that for muscle development Cartilage in general is present prior to muscle formation And somatic limb muscle progenitor cells apparently do not carry intrinsic positional information. They also stated that there are studies That suggest that the presence of the first tissues formed during limb development Condensations that will give rise to bones May provide the positional signaling for the subsequent development of soft tissue.

[sum]

Hello MohamedLuq93

Before any discussion takes place we need the Koranic verses that make the claims that you present.

I am not aware at all that chewed matter is a well known medical term and used with reference to embryology.

Does the Koran mention the egg produced by the woman?

Could you present a more accurate and lucid account of the process of fertilisation and subsequent embryology?

sum

[manfred]

When you were a kid and you went to bed, and mom switched off the light, surely you sometimes looked around the room... "oh what is that! It's a monster! Is it a cat? You scared yourself until you switched on the light and had a look. And then it was just that jumper of yours that had fallen off the chair on top of the teddy bear.

This is what happens with most of these "science in Qur'an" claims.... "oh look, what is that?? It sound exactly like..."

What is happening you see something written and you decide, using your 21 century mind and ways of thinking, you own experiences and thoughts, to make sense of something written 1400 years ago.

A crass example would be "look it says here Jesus called 12 people! He had an iphone..."

So what we need to do is the equivalent to switching on the light in room in the story at the start.

We need to see the verses, the context of them, and most importantly, how these verses were understood by Mohammed and/or the early Muslims. If Muslims have ALWAYS believed and taught reproduction as in a modern science class, then sure we are onto something.

The verse that she VERY FREELY translated is this one, from three standard translations:

Yusuf Ali: “O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes…”

Pickthal: “O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants…”

Shakir: “O people! if you are in doubt about the raising, then surely We created you from dust, then from a small seed, then from a clot, then from a lump of flesh, complete in make and incomplete, that We may make clear to you; and We cause what We please to stay in the wombs till an appointed time, then We bring you forth as babies…”

That is from surah 22, verse 5


Here is the other one:

Verily We created man from a product of wet earth [sulalatin min teenin سُلَٰلَةٍ مِّن طِينٍ]; Then placed him as a drop (of seed) [nutfatan نُطْفَةً] in a safe lodging [qararin makeenin قَرَارٍ مَّكِينٍ]; Then fashioned We the drop a clot ['alaqatan عَلَقَةً], then fashioned We the clot a little lump [mudghatan مُضْغَةً], then fashioned We the little lump bones ['ithaman عِظَٰمًا], then clothed [kasawna كَسَوْنَا] the bones with flesh [lahman لَحْمًا], and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!

Qur'an 23:12-14

The first thing you will notice is that apparently no egg plays any part in the development of a baby. NO EGG IS MENTIONED ANYWHERE.

This is also here:

Have We not created you from a fluid (held) despicable [ma-in maheenin]? The which We placed in a place of rest, firmly fixed, For a period (of gestation), determined (according to need)?
Qur'an 77:20-22

Then you notice the order mentioned in the Qur'an varies slightly from the one she gave in her presentation. Remember that semen is at first s sticky mess and gets liquid later, that is what she said in the "science" bit of her talk, and she is quite right, (ask sum he is a doctor)
I think.

But the little liquid drop becomes a "clot" of some kind, so the order is reversed. Then there is a lump, which get turned into bones which then get covered by flesh. That is not scientifically correct.

Early Islamic writers described conception like this:

(Verily, We have created man from Nutfah Amshaj,) meaning, mixed. The words Mashaj and Mashij mean something that is mixed together. Ibn `Abbas said concerning Allah’s statement,

﴿مِن نُّطْفَةٍ أَمْشَاجٍ﴾
(from Nutfah Amshaj,) "This means the fluid of the man and the fluid of the woman when they meet and mix.” Then man changes after this from stage to stage, condition to condition and color to color. `Ikrimah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas all made statements similar to this. They said, "Amshaj is the mixing of the man’s fluid with the woman’s fluid.”

So there is a male and a female fluid, the male being white and the female yellow, they mix and you get a baby... right...

In fact, Mohammed has simply taken a description from the classical physician Galen and sold it as a "revelation" in his Qur'an:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/24665426/Isl ... -and-Galen

So if the embryology in the Qur'an is so perfect that it must be divine, what about the same thing said by a Greek physician 500 years earlier? Also divine?

I am sorry for busting the bubble, but the Qur'an is what is is.

[Fernando]

All other considerations apart, consider this (I've said it before and I'll say it again):
Mohammed's people had goats and camels, which they bred and butchered. Not to mention their own wives having problems in child-bearing and no doubt slaughtered the odd pregnant woman too. It would be a strange thing if they couldn't come up with a fair summary of mammalian embryology just from general observation. Which the Koran barely manages anyway.

[Garudaman]

the one point of the holy-scripture teaching is for teach people to be grateful, thankful for what God has given them, & in this case : what if God created humans without flesh/muscle, bone, but just a lump of flesh or even a cloth of blood, like low-level animal/simple organism.

[Fernando]

the one point of the holy-scripture teaching is for teach people to be grateful, thankful for what God has given them, & in this case : what if God created humans without flesh/muscle, bone, but just a lump of flesh or even a cloth of blood, like low-level animal/simple organism.

The question is whether Allah's account of embryology is correct, not whether we should be grateful for whatever Allah made us.

[Garudaman]

i said that verse is about Allah's design of humans, not about Allah's account of embryology, so your question is wrong.