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Allah,before and after Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:56 pm
by frankie
What is the difference between the Allah before Islam, and the Allah after Islam?

Muslims claim Mohammed came to bring people to monotheism, to worship the one god Allah, but the pagan Arabs already accepted the existence of a creator god called Allah, the chief god of the Kaaba,which had a "wife" and "daughters" also prayed to and offered sacrifice to:

http://answering-islam.org/Books/Al-Kalbi/uzza.htm


"We have been told that the Apostle of God once

mentioned al-Uzza saying, "I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people."

The Quraysh were wont to circumambulate the Ka'bah and say:


"By Allat and al-'Uzza,
And Manah, the third idol besides.
Verily they are the most exalted females[15]
Whose intercession is to be sought[16]."
These were also called "the Daughters of Allah[17]," and were supposed to intercede before God. When the Apostle of God was sent, God revealed unto him [concerning them] the following:

Have you seen Allat and al-'Uzza, and Manah the third
idol besides? What? Shall ye have male progeny and
God female? This indeed were an unfair partition! These
are mere names: ye and your fathers named them thus:
God hath not sent down any warranty in their regard[18]."


Mohamed's fathers name was associated with Allah, his name was Abdullah, meaning "slave of Allah "indicating the existence of this god.

If Mohammed and his tribe were already familiar with a god called Allah, what did Mohammed bring that was any different to what the pagan Arabs already knew?

What is the difference between the Allah of the Kaaba,and the Allah of the Quran?

Re: Allah,before and after Islam

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:54 pm
by Fernando
It's always seemed to me likely that when (at least the early) monotheists said "you shall worship no other god than me", they meant what it says: no worship, not no other gods. After all, "Allahu Akbar" says that Allah is the greatest - for which there would have to be lesser gods.

Re: Allah,before and after Islam

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:46 pm
by Val
As an exercise, put yourself in Mecca before Muhammad. Look around Mecca and you will see a thriving business community with caravans of goods being shipped out continuously. Dig into the businesses that you find there. What products were being made and shipped out? Meccans were in the religion business. They operated their community in ways to protect their religion business. There were 360 different idols to different gods at the Kabba. Pilgrims were arriving regularly to bow down and worship idols.

So......knowing free enterprise and it's form of commerce, you already know quite a lot about Mecca before Muhammad. Competition was the keyword. There were businesses making money from the pilgrims and through the manufacture of idols to be shipped out for profit. Competition must have been intense with each idol manufacturer always trying to win in the marketplace. Not so much different than business today. Every businessperson, both then and now, seeks to beat their competitors and it's always true that some do better than others.

Mecca before and after Muhammad is a study in what happens when one business comes to dominate over others. Khadijah was Muhammad's first wife. She was in the shipping business with caravans. Muhammad started with her as an employee but ended up as her husband. Khadijah should be regarded as the most prominent Arab businessperson in all of history because she figured out a way to dominate in the religion business. Khadijah was an entrepreneur always seeking to grow her fortunes.

Muhammad came to her one day with a story about being a attacked in a cave by a Jinn (demon). Considering Khadijah's mindset as an entrepreneur, and being drastically more intelligent than lowly Muhammad, she saw a business opportunity right away. She told Muhammad "no no, you were not attacked by a Jinn, we can spin this differently for profit". Shazam, Islam was born.

Val

Re: Allah,before and after Islam

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:28 pm
by Fernando
Val wrote:Considering Khadijah's mindset as an entrepreneur, and being drastically more intelligent than lowly Muhammad, she saw a business opportunity right away. She told Muhammad "no no, you were not attacked by a Jinn, we can spin this differently for profit". Shazam, Islam was born.

Val
So Islam started as a gynocracy: but it didn't take long before the old men took over and it became a gerontocracy and misogyny set in.

Re: Allah,before and after Islam

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:17 pm
by Nosuperstition
Val wrote:As an exercise, put yourself in Mecca before Muhammad. Look around Mecca and you will see a thriving business community with caravans of goods being shipped out continuously. Dig into the businesses that you find there. What products were being made and shipped out? Meccans were in the religion business. They operated their community in ways to protect their religion business. There were 360 different idols to different gods at the Kabba. Pilgrims were arriving regularly to bow down and worship idols.

So......knowing free enterprise and it's form of commerce, you already know quite a lot about Mecca before Muhammad. Competition was the keyword. There were businesses making money from the pilgrims and through the manufacture of idols to be shipped out for profit. Competition must have been intense with each idol manufacturer always trying to win in the marketplace. Not so much different than business today. Every businessperson, both then and now, seeks to beat their competitors and it's always true that some do better than others.

Mecca before and after Muhammad is a study in what happens when one business comes to dominate over others. Khadijah was Muhammad's first wife. She was in the shipping business with caravans. Muhammad started with her as an employee but ended up as her husband. Khadijah should be regarded as the most prominent Arab businessperson in all of history because she figured out a way to dominate in the religion business. Khadijah was an entrepreneur always seeking to grow her fortunes.

Muhammad came to her one day with a story about being a attacked in a cave by a Jinn (demon). Considering Khadijah's mindset as an entrepreneur, and being drastically more intelligent than lowly Muhammad, she saw a business opportunity right away. She told Muhammad "no no, you were not attacked by a Jinn, we can spin this differently for profit". Shazam, Islam was born.

Val


How do you put your opponents out of business?By offering far cheaper products in the beginning and thus eliminating competition.Then when you achieve 'mono'poly,sell your products at a far higher price.Or by making your products look of the better quality in the beginning and decreasing the quality of the product once you have eliminated your competitors by putting them out of business.Now that explains how religions can take up liberal outlook in the beginning.