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Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 pm
by Garudaman
manfred wrote:and what does the verse above that one say?

evil/hell is (also) comes from man as obeys the God or turn away from God, comes from man.

manfred wrote:You really are very selective in your reading of texts. It says that everyone will those deeds easy that lead him to its pre-determined destiny. So an evil doer finds evil things easy, and a good person good things.

Allah decides where each person will end up before they are born, and you actions merely are things that indicate what the destination may be.

nope, its said "everyone will find it easy (to do) such deeds (both evil deeds or good deeds) that will lead him towards that for which he has been created (both heaven or hell)", that's why there's such sentence, "shall we depend and give up work? No, carry on doing good deeds!", "We will make smooth for him", your interpretation dump those such sentences while my interpretation can accommodate all sentences.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:31 pm
by Centaur
the only problem with that is , the verses do not imply anything like that. The verses say Good and Evil is from Allah in one place and in the very next verse it says only good is from Allah and evil is from you and you only. Just wonder what would have Allah done without the help of these interpretation factories, after all the Quran says its clear repetitively. Allah and mohammed has to be saved by interpretation warriors which makes the verses look even more awkward.

it gets even more funnier when it gets to 2 verses down, may be mohammed has that oh no what have I done feeling.so he talks about contradiction why should a God talk about contradiction unless he smells something? :yummy:

Quran 4:82

Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
:lotpot:

The truth of the matter is Mohammed dished out verses as he went along.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:18 am
by Garudaman
Centaur wrote:the only problem with that is, the verses do not imply anything like that.

so says someone who can't accept reality! see again the fact :

QS. 4:78. Wherever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you should be within towers of lofty construction. But if good comes to them, they say, "This is from Allah "; and if evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you." Say, "All [things] are from Allah." So what is [the matter] with those people that they can hardly understand any statement?

QS. 4:79-80. What comes to you of good is from Allah, but what comes to you of evil, [O man], is from yourself. And We have sent you, [O Muhammad], to the people as a messenger, and sufficient is Allah as Witness. He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.


Centaur wrote:The next verse it says only good is from Allah and evil is from you and you only.

that's because, good means guardian from Allah, & evil means no guardian from Allah :

QS. 4:79-80. What comes to you of good is from Allah, but what comes to you of evil, [O man], is from yourself. And We have sent you, [O Muhammad], to the people as a messenger, and sufficient is Allah as Witness. He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:20 am
by Centaur
The meaning of Evil is immoral,wrong, sinful, ungodly etc or in other words something originating from the Satan.
And your saying that, this is from Allah? is Allah satan + god? or Satan himself?. Assuming the word used in both verses are the same in literal Arabic the contradiction is too obvious to overlook, especially when used in two verses in a row, as it is expected to be to be the same or closer in context.
Allah contradicts himself saying Evil is from him and then saying only good is from Allah in the same breath in the very next verse.

if Allah's vocabulary is so poor he would have sought professional help and if Arabic is not up to it as a language he should have used a better language, may be Greek or Hebrew to communicate, which was standardized much prior to Arabic.

Also do not think any jihad i or Muslim would consider death as Evil as its his one way ticket to72 virgins and paradise.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:22 am
by Garudaman
first, that "evil" isn't necessarily mean evil, it can also mean ill, bad, grieve, distress, sad, horrible, harm, shame, or dead body :
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary ... A#(4:78:20)
https://translate.google.co.id/?hl=jv&t ... 9%88%D8%A1

second, Satan is the origin of evil is the fake teaching, as God is the creator of everything.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:11 pm
by Centaur
oh no! we are back to square one, that really does not mean this, this really does not mean that kind of explanation, when author of the koran whether it be Allah, jibril, Mohammed, Abdullah ibn sarh or any one of the scribes employed by Mohammad made it look like it is . All is deception isn't, after all Allah call himself the biggest deceivers of all time.Either he is that or failed miserably to communicate effectively .

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:29 pm
by Fernando
Garudaman wrote:first, that "evil" isn't necessarily mean evil, it can also mean ill, bad, grieve, distress, sad, horrible, harm, shame, or dead body :
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary ... A#(4:78:20)
Why then did Allah choose such a vague imprecise language, or vague imprecise words from that language, to reveal his supposely easy-to-understand message for all mankind?

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:39 am
by Garudaman
because God wants to make more than one religion/community, so that humans become want to race/compete with their rivals/opponents, to goodness :

QS. 5:48. And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a clear way. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one community [united in one religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:30 pm
by manfred
Allah creates false religions?

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:25 pm
by pr126
Had Allah willed, He would have made you one community [united in one religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good


Was that Allah speaking?

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:56 pm
by Garudaman
manfred wrote:Allah creates false religions?

yeah, by created dumb people.

pr126 wrote:Was that Allah speaking?

yeah.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:28 pm
by manfred
OK... so if all this is Allah's doing, then he is responsible for it. How can he then send people to hell for something he did?

Also, garudaman, are you saying all non-Muslims are stupid?

Strange, how all these stupid people manage to invent so many things, from the internet to brain surgery... Almost everything man-made you have touched or seen today are inventions by non-Muslim people. Are Muslims so much more intelligent they are beyond inventing things?

Even the Tempeh and rice you may had for your lunch are not Muslim cultivations or inventions.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:14 am
by Garudaman
manfred wrote:OK... so if all this is Allah's doing, then he is responsible for it. How can he then send people to hell for something he did?

Also, garudaman, are you saying all non-Muslims are stupid?

stupid in this case, which is, in reading! read again fernando's question!

manfred wrote:Strange, how all these stupid people manage to invent so many things, from the internet to brain surgery... Almost everything man-made you have touched or seen today are inventions by non-Muslim people. Are Muslims so much more intelligent they are beyond inventing things?

Even the Tempeh and rice you may had for your lunch are not Muslim cultivations or inventions.

that's when western doesn't know Islam, you know, before 9/11.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:33 pm
by Fernando
Garudaman wrote:
manfred wrote:OK... so if all this is Allah's doing, then he is responsible for it. How can he then send people to hell for something he did?

Also, garudaman, are you saying all non-Muslims are stupid?

stupid in this case, which is, in reading! read again fernando's question!
Don't misrepresent what I said, If Allah's easy to understand book is written in words that aren't easy to understand, it's Allah who's been stupid.

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:39 am
by sum
Garudaman resorts to silly and flippant posts when he can not defend the faults and inhumanity with the Koran. Muhammad and Islam. He has abrogated his critical thinking and substituted pure blind faith instead even if it contradicts facts. He is well and truly programmed and a lost cause.

sum

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:13 pm
by pr126
Garudaman's - and every Muslims - duty is to defend Islam anyway he can. :sheikh:

Re: In your face contradiction

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:56 pm
by Nosuperstition
sum wrote:Hello Garudaman

Your last post is illogical and you know it. You also know that the two verses are incompatible with each other but you dare not admit it and that is why you come up with nonsense by way of reply. Nonsense is all that is left for you to say because the incompatibility of the two verses with each other is blindingly obvious to anyone with critical thinking. Sadly, muslims have their critical thinking ability "circumcised" from birth onwards.

sum


Do not ask questions,for by doing so people in the past have lost their belief.That is what some said in this forum quoting from some Islamic source.

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/galileogal161381.html

However it seems that the more one thinks,the more are his chances of losing beliefs in dogmas of any faith.This is not limited to muslims alone.