QS. 65:4. And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.
Garudaman wrote:no need rethink :
QS. 65:4. And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.
no one doubt the purity of womb of the unmenstruated women, so "those who have not menstruated" = "menstruable women who late periods (more than 3 month)"!
QS. 4:21. And how could you take it while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant?
who are they? -> women! -> when the women can take convenant of the gone in unto each other? -> when she is old enough to be sexually attracted to a man!
QS. 4:6. And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor - let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.
its literally said that marriageable age is when they judgement in property!
manfred wrote:There are two special cases listed here:
Older women who no longer menstruate, the iddah is 3 months.
manfred wrote:Then WHO ARE those who have not (yet) menstruated, garudaman? This is understood to refer to any young girl not to have started menstruation, (as well as any woman who does not menstruate for medical reasons.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iddah
manfred wrote:This is seen by Muslims generally as Allah's sanction for under-age marriage. The proof is the wide spread practice in the Muslim world.
manfred wrote:Then, we have also, in addition to the Qur'an, Mohammed's "example": He married Aisha when she was six and sex with her when she was nine. The reason why he did not have sex earlier was because Aisha got sick.
However, Mohammed's example is not consistent: On murdering all the male adult Quraiza in Medina, he proceeded to have sex with the widow of tribe's chief, the very night she was forced to watch him being beheaded.
So, like so often, Mohammed's and Allah's rules do not apply to Mohammed himself.
frankie wrote:Female children are not sexually attracted to men, but Mohammed was sexually aroused by a child of nine.
Garudaman wrote:manfred wrote:There are two special cases listed here:
Older women who no longer menstruate, the iddah is 3 months.
look at the sentece of "if you doubt", so its women who have recently been menopausal, surely not a woman who hasn't been menstruating for a long time!manfred wrote:Then WHO ARE those who have not (yet) menstruated, garudaman? This is understood to refer to any young girl not to have started menstruation, (as well as any woman who does not menstruate for medical reasons.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iddah
then who will doubt a woman who can't menstruate, look again the sentece of "if you doubt", so its menstruable women who late periods (more than 3 month), it cant be any young girl who not yet start to menstruate but already in menstrual age as you said, due to they cant be already judgement in proverty at that age (look again QS. 4:6)!manfred wrote:This is seen by Muslims generally as Allah's sanction for under-age marriage. The proof is the wide spread practice in the Muslim world.
the prohibition of immature children to perform legal acts, including marriage, is far more widespread!manfred wrote:Then, we have also, in addition to the Qur'an, Mohammed's "example": He married Aisha when she was six and sex with her when she was nine. The reason why he did not have sex earlier was because Aisha got sick.
However, Mohammed's example is not consistent: On murdering all the male adult Quraiza in Medina, he proceeded to have sex with the widow of tribe's chief, the very night she was forced to watch him being beheaded.
So, like so often, Mohammed's and Allah's rules do not apply to Mohammed himself.
the hadith/example that contradict the Quran = fake hadith/example!frankie wrote:Female children are not sexually attracted to men, but Mohammed was sexually aroused by a child of nine.
that's why your story is fake (coz contradict to QS. 4:21), thus your case & your question is doesn't valid/exist!
that's why your story is fake (coz contradict to QS. 4:21), thus your case & your question is doesn't valid/exist!
Garudaman wrote:manfred wrote:There are two special cases listed here:
Older women who no longer menstruate, the iddah is 3 months.
look at the sentece of "if you doubt", so its women who have recently been menopausal, surely not a woman who hasn't been menstruating for a long time!manfred wrote:Then WHO ARE those who have not (yet) menstruated, garudaman? This is understood to refer to any young girl not to have started menstruation, (as well as any woman who does not menstruate for medical reasons.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iddah
then who will doubt a woman who can't menstruate, look again the sentece of "if you doubt", so its menstruable women who late periods (more than 3 month), it cant be any young girl who not yet start to menstruate but already in menstrual age as you said, due to they cant be already judgement in proverty at that age (look again QS. 4:6)!manfred wrote:This is seen by Muslims generally as Allah's sanction for under-age marriage. The proof is the wide spread practice in the Muslim world.
the prohibition of immature children to perform legal acts, including marriage, is far more widespread!manfred wrote:Then, we have also, in addition to the Qur'an, Mohammed's "example": He married Aisha when she was six and sex with her when she was nine. The reason why he did not have sex earlier was because Aisha got sick.
However, Mohammed's example is not consistent: On murdering all the male adult Quraiza in Medina, he proceeded to have sex with the widow of tribe's chief, the very night she was forced to watch him being beheaded.
So, like so often, Mohammed's and Allah's rules do not apply to Mohammed himself.
the hadith/example that contradict the Quran = fake hadith/example!frankie wrote:Female children are not sexually attracted to men, but Mohammed was sexually aroused by a child of nine.
that's why your story is fake (coz contradict to QS. 4:21), thus your case & your question is doesn't valid/exist!
then who will doubt a woman who can't menstruate, look again the sentece of "if you doubt", so its menstruable women who late periods (more than 3 month), it cant be any young girl who not yet start to menstruate but already in menstrual age as you said, due to they cant be already judgement in proverty at that age (look again QS. 4:6)!
frankie wrote:This verse just justifies sex within marriage
QS. 4:21. And how could you take it while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant?
who are they? -> women! -> when the women can take convenant of the gone in unto each other? -> when she is old enough to be sexually attracted to a man!
frankie wrote:Oh yes it can.
manfred wrote:Hadith are sayings and sometime accounts of actions by Mohammed related to us by a known source, i.e. a list of named Muslims who all attest this to be true. The Qur'an does not have such a known source
the Quran have known source which is the Prophet/Messenger of God himself in first person!
Garudaman wrote:frankie wrote:This verse just justifies sex within marriage
read again :QS. 4:21. And how could you take it while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant?
who are they? -> women! -> when the women can take convenant of the gone in unto each other? -> when she is old enough to be sexually attracted to a man!
1. marriage = convenant of the gone in unto each other
2. not take convenant of the gone in unto each other = no marriage
3. without old enough to be sexually attracted to a man = cant take convenant of the gone in unto each otherfrankie wrote:Oh yes it can.
then we live in different reality!manfred wrote:Hadith are sayings and sometime accounts of actions by Mohammed related to us by a known source, i.e. a list of named Muslims who all attest this to be true. The Qur'an does not have such a known source
the Quran have known source which is the Prophet/Messenger of God himself in first person!
Garudaman wrote:how can there's any little girl if/when its fake news?
Garudaman wrote:what teaching? fake Islamic teaching isnt Islamic teaching!
Well, since the Koran was finalised in Cairo in the 20th century and is now accepted as the correct copy, there must have been a lot or incorrect earlier copies about before that.Garudaman wrote:you mean its impossibility a people wrote in old paper using old ink? and its cant be happen the earlier manuscript is the error copy but the later manuscript is the correct copy?
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