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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:39 pm
by piscohot
Nosuperstition wrote:
Old maan,it is a translation error,might be in the Quran it says the source of the semen or the activation for the semen passes through the ribs and the backbone.Allah has not made available an exact copy of the Quran in Arabic available to you.Go figure out.


Where exactly in the quran did it say 'activation for the semen'?

Allah did made available the Quran in Arabic to all muslims, albeit thru the courtesy of Uthman, so what did it CLEARLY say in Arabic about the semen?

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:45 pm
by Nosuperstition
piscohot wrote:
Nosuperstition wrote:
Old maan,it is a translation error,might be in the Quran it says the source of the semen or the activation for the semen passes through the ribs and the backbone.Allah has not made available an exact copy of the Quran in Arabic available to you.Go figure out.


Where exactly in the quran did it say 'activation for the semen'?

Allah did made available the Quran in Arabic to all muslims, albeit thru the courtesy of Uthman, so what did it CLEARLY say in Arabic about the semen?


People understand religious writings in the context and not in literal sense.Similarly you must understand the proper context of the above Quranic content.

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:50 pm
by Nosuperstition
For example when Hindus are questioned about unpalatable verses in the Vedas,they say that those rituals are just symbolic and not literal.

When Christians are asked about how if they go by literal interpretation of the Bible they have to pluck out the eyes as it causes them to sin in the form of lust,they say it is allegorical and not literal.

Similarly for Muslims also the verses need to be seen in the proper context and should not be taken out of context.

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:16 pm
by manfred
LOL, you are doing the classic Muslim manoeuvre: First it is a translation issue, and you should come back in 20 years after you study Arabic for that long, and then you claim some context which was missed but you do not specify what it is.

We had this discussion many time. read here:
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Quran_and_Semen_Production

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:55 pm
by Fernando
Nosuperstition wrote:Old maan,it is a translation error,might be in the Quran it says the source of the semen or the activation for the semen passes through the ribs and the backbone.Allah has not made available an exact copy of the Quran in Arabic available to you.Go figure out.
Bo**ocks. Oh, and that's what Mo should have written, too. Translate that back into Arabic and compare and contrast with what the Koran says.
(A clue: Google Translate says alkhisiatayn الخصيتين )

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:52 pm
by frankie
Nosuperstition wrote:For example when Hindus are questioned about unpalatable verses in the Vedas,they say that those rituals are just symbolic and not literal.

When Christians are asked about how if they go by literal interpretation of the Bible they have to pluck out the eyes as it causes them to sin in the form of lust,they say it is allegorical and not literal.

Similarly for Muslims also the verses need to be seen in the proper context and should not be taken out of context.



Nosuperstition:

The verses in question prove the Quran is a man made book,its own commentaries give the evidence.

The Quran is giving information which is not true, no context is needed to see that the Quran is in error, as it is scientifically proven the earth is a sphere, and semen is produced in the testicles held in the genital region of a man.


Quran 88.20
And at the Earth, how it is spread out?

Al Jalalayan tafsir 88.20


And the earth, how it was laid out flat?, and thus infer from this the power of God, exalted be He, and His Oneness? The commencing with the [mention of] camels is because they are closer in contact with it [the earth] than any other [animal]. As for His words sutihat, ‘laid out flat’, this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat, which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it, even if this [latter] does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law



Quran 86.6-7
6. He is created from a drop emitted-

7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:


Semen is not produced between the backbone (of the man) and the ribs,(of the woman) the Quran is in error, making the Quran a man made book, not a god made book.

(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) meaning, the backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest.

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=142

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:51 pm
by Nosuperstition
Fernando wrote:
Nosuperstition wrote:Old maan,it is a translation error,might be in the Quran it says the source of the semen or the activation for the semen passes through the ribs and the backbone.Allah has not made available an exact copy of the Quran in Arabic available to you.Go figure out.
Bo**ocks. Oh, and that's what Mo should have written, too. Translate that back into Arabic and compare and contrast with what the Koran says.
(A clue: Google Translate says alkhisiatayn الخصيتين )


The Scottish theologian declaration supposedly declared that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God but has the possibility of man made errors due to being written by fallible men.So why not give the same benefit of doubt in case of the Quran?

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:53 pm
by Nosuperstition
frankie wrote:6. He is created from a drop emitted-

7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:


the drops of harmones that activate the sexual organs have kinetic as well as potential energy.So that energy essentially gets converted into the energy of the penis.So this translation seems to be accurate.

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:23 pm
by frankie
Nosuperstition wrote:
frankie wrote:6. He is created from a drop emitted-

7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:


the drops of harmones that activate the sexual organs have kinetic as well as potential energy.So that energy essentially gets converted into the energy of the penis.So this translation seems to be accurate.


Nosuperstition

No scientist will ever tell you that "sexual fluid" is proceeded between the backbone of a man, and the ribs of a woman, because it is not true.

"Sexual fluid" from a man is produced in the testes,which are in the genital area of a man, not the backbone area.

"Sexual fluid" of the woman, is produced only in the vagina,not the ribs, during sexual intercourse, and has no part in the production of children, even though Ibn Kathir says it does.


(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) "The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).'' Concerning Allah's statement,

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:23 pm
by sum
Hello nosuperstition

Your quote -
Similarly for Muslims also the verses need to be seen in the proper context and should not be taken out of context.

If context is needed then whatever is written only applies to the time of the context. Why, then, is what is written in the Koran, which is eternal guidance for all mankind, if it only applies to the time of the context? The answer is obvious. It is used as an example for muslims to follow in similar circumstances.

In any case, Allah never told muslims to use context nor did he give any.

sum

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:06 pm
by Fernando
Nosuperstition wrote:The Scottish theologian declaration supposedly declared that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God but has the possibility of man made errors due to being written by fallible men.So why not give the same benefit of doubt in case of the Quran?
For the simple reason that Muslims insist that the Koran is the literal unaltered word of Allah. How can it be given the benefit of the doubt, if no doubt is permitted?

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:44 pm
by Nosuperstition
No scientist will ever tell you that "sexual fluid" is proceeded between the backbone of a man, and the ribs of a woman, because it is not true.

"Sexual fluid" from a man is produced in the testes,which are in the genital area of a man, not the backbone area.

"Sexual fluid" of the woman, is produced only in the vagina,not the ribs, during sexual intercourse, and has no part in the production of children, even though Ibn Kathir says it does.


(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) "The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).'' Concerning Allah's statement,


This is what you wrote.

6. He is created from a drop emitted-

7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:


Who said that the sexual fluid of semen passes between the backbone and ribs.drops of blood with harmones passes between the backbone and the ribs.They are also involved in the creation of human beings,not just semen.So Quran is right when it says that the drop flowing between backbone and ribs results in your birth.

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:47 pm
by Nosuperstition
Fernando wrote:
Nosuperstition wrote:The Scottish theologian declaration supposedly declared that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God but has the possibility of man made errors due to being written by fallible men.So why not give the same benefit of doubt in case of the Quran?
For the simple reason that Muslims insist that the Koran is the literal unaltered word of Allah. How can it be given the benefit of the doubt, if no doubt is permitted?


Yes Quran is the literal unaltered word of Allah but fallible men might make mistakes while interpreting it.

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:59 pm
by frankie
Nosuperstition wrote:
Fernando wrote:
Nosuperstition wrote:The Scottish theologian declaration supposedly declared that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God but has the possibility of man made errors due to being written by fallible men.So why not give the same benefit of doubt in case of the Quran?
For the simple reason that Muslims insist that the Koran is the literal unaltered word of Allah. How can it be given the benefit of the doubt, if no doubt is permitted?


Yes Quran is the literal unaltered word of Allah but fallible men might make mistakes while interpreting it.


If the Quran is unfallible,it should not need fallible men to interpret it, but it does, which indicates the Quran cannot be as clear and easy to understand as it claims.

And if these men can be wrong in their interpretations, then they have mis lead countless millions of Muslims for centuries with their errors.

Which begs the question,why would Allah allow his scholars to be wrong in mis representing his words, which by Allah's own standards, is blasphemous?

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:25 pm
by frankie
Nosuperstition wrote:
No scientist will ever tell you that "sexual fluid" is proceeded between the backbone of a man, and the ribs of a woman, because it is not true.

"Sexual fluid" from a man is produced in the testes,which are in the genital area of a man, not the backbone area.

"Sexual fluid" of the woman, is produced only in the vagina,not the ribs, during sexual intercourse, and has no part in the production of children, even though Ibn Kathir says it does.


(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) "The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).'' Concerning Allah's statement,


This is what you wrote.

6. He is created from a drop emitted-

7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:


Who said that the sexual fluid of semen passes between the backbone and ribs.drops of blood with harmones passes between the backbone and the ribs.They are also involved in the creation of human beings,not just semen.So Quran is right when it says that the drop flowing between backbone and ribs results in your birth.



Nosuperstition:

These words are from Allah not I, get it right, and the corresponding tafsir is given as from Allah himself.

If you have a problem with this, then you must take it up with Muslims scholarship, not with the one quoting from it.

These verses concern the creation of man, they erroneously claim that man is created from "sexual fluid" from a man, proceeding from his backbone, and the "sexual fluid, "proceeding" from the ribs/chest of the woman.


This is wrong in both cases, the "sexual fluid" of the man "proceeds" from the testes,found in the genital area of a man, not the backbone.

The "sexual fluid" which "proceeds "from a woman during sexual intercourse is from the vagina, not the ribs,and plays no part whatsoever in reproduction, it is there only for lubrication.

The verses are not referring to either hormones or blood, which the tafsir makes clear


Quran 6. He is created from a drop emitted-

Quran 7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:

The following forms part only of the tafsir for Quran verses 6 and 7,you can read the whole of it here:
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=142


"Allah says,
فَلْيَنظُرِ الإِنسَـنُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ
(So, let man see from what he is created!) This is alerting man to the weakness of his origin from which he was created. The intent of it is to guide man to accept (the reality of) the Hereafter, because whoever is able to begin the creation then he is also able to repeat it in the same way. This is as Allah says,
وَهُوَ الَّذِى يَبْدَأُ الْخَلْقَ ثُمَّ يُعِيدُهُ وَهُوَ أَهْوَنُ عَلَيْهِ
(And He it is Who originates the creation, then He will repeat it; and this is easier for Him.) (30:27) Then Allah says,
خُلِقَ مِن مَّآءٍ دَافِقٍ
(He is created from a water gushing forth.) meaning, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man and the woman. Thus, the child is produced from both of them by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,
يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَآئِبِ
(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) meaning, the backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said,
يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَآئِبِ
(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) "The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).'' Concerning Allah's statement,
إِنَّهُ عَلَى رَجْعِهِ لَقَادِرٌ
(Verily, He is Able to bring him back (to life)!) This means that He is able to return this man that is created from fluid gushed forth. In other words, He is able to repeat his creation and resurrect him to the final abode. This is clearly possible, because whoever is able to begin the creation then he surely is able to repeat it. Indeed Allah has mentioned this proof in more than one place in the Qur'an.
On the Day of Judgement, Man will have no Power or Assistance
In this regard Allah says,
يَوْمَ تُبْلَى السَّرَآئِرُ
(The Day when all the secrets will be examined.) meaning, on the Day of Judgement the secrets will be tested. This means that they will be exposed and made manifest. Thus, the secret will be made open and that which is concealed will be well known. It is confirmed in the Two Sahihs on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Messenger of Allah said,
«يُرْفَعُ لِكُلِّ غَادِرٍ لِوَاءٌ عِنْدَ اسْتِهِ يُقَالُ: هذِهِ غَدْرَةُ فُلَانِ بْنِ فُلَان»
(Every betrayer will have a flag raised for him behind his back, and it will be said, `This is the betrayal of so-and-so, the son of so-and-so.') Concerning Allah's statement,"



The Quran may be said to come from Allah, but Allah cannot be God, as any God worthy of the name cannot make such blatant mistakes about his own creation.


QED
The Quran is not from God, but from man.

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:47 pm
by Fernando
Nosuperstition wrote:This is what you wrote.

6. He is created from a drop emitted-

7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:


Who said that the sexual fluid of semen passes between the backbone and ribs.drops of blood with harmones passes between the backbone and the ribs.They are also involved in the creation of human beings,not just semen.So Quran is right when it says that the drop flowing between backbone and ribs results in your birth.
Oh dear. How can I think of an analogy to make you understand? Suppose I buy a Volkswagen car, made in Germany, and fill it with petrol that comes from oil drilled in Arabia. Does that make the car come from Arabia?
Not a very good analogy. Let's suppose the spermazoa - which is what we are talking. about - are electricity. The electricity is started in motion by the pressing of a switch. Is the electricity made by the switch? Of course not, it comes from the battery or power station. That is the relationship between spermatozoa and hormones. Look it up.
EDIT
Or it may be more accurate to say that the switch equivalent to hormones is the one that starts the generator in the power station.

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:23 pm
by sum
Hello Nosuperstition

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index ... &Id=118997

Allah is talking rubbish, Ibn kathir is supporting rubbish and you are supporting rubbish.

It is even clear from the link that muslims are totally confused and I am sure that in their hearts they know that Allah is talking rubbish but they fall over themselves to try and explain it away. I am sure that they are embarrassed by Allah`s total lack of understanding over conception. Did Allah not realise that more and more understanding of reproduction would come about and so what he presented would be completely laughable in the future? Is Allah really "All wise and knowing" or simply a fraud?

Muslims try to put words into Allah`s(Muhammad`s) mouth. There is no mention in the Koran about fluid emanating from the woman`s chest yet muslims and others try to claim that the jumbled nonsense in the Koran implies that there is. Is this really the best that Allah could come up with?

This one subject destroys the credibility of Allah and Islam.

sum

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:38 am
by manfred
The Scottish theologian declaration supposedly declared that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God but has the possibility of man made errors due to being written by fallible men.So why not give the same benefit of doubt in case of the Quran?


Because MUSLIMS most certainly do not see the Qur'an like that. Their claim is that an all mighty, all knowing being wrote it (or rather dictated it to a magic pen...) LITERALLY. So that is what the starting point is, by the choice of the Muslims.

All of Islam is built on that claim. And obviously it is a nonsense claim.


And to be honest, I found very little if anything "inspiring" in that book. It is a poorly written text mostly consisting of badly copied older texts interspersed with never-ending outbursts of hate an bile.


the drops of harmones that activate the sexual organs have kinetic as well as potential energy.So that energy essentially gets converted into the energy of the penis.So this translation seems to be accurate.



:lotpot: Sorry but this one deserves a prize... the dancing banana :banana: for being more than usually silly.

This is another very Muslim way of arguing... Making the Qur'an say something you want to say rather than trying to work out what is says properly, by translating fairly and considering the text around it.

Streeeeeeeeeching and beeeeeending the words until they ALMOST seem to make sense or until other just walk away shaking their heads.

This odd behaviour is due to the Muslim understanding of the Qur'an as a divine text. So if it says nonsense, they refuse to see it and instead insist we don't understand it correctly.

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:13 am
by Fernando
Nosuperstition wrote:
frankie wrote:6. He is created from a drop emitted-

7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:


the drops of harmones that activate the sexual organs have kinetic as well as potential energy.So that energy essentially gets converted into the energy of the penis.So this translation seems to be accurate.
I hadn't noticed this nonsense until Manfred awarded it the :banana:
Take testosterone. It has been found that in men testosterone is produced at between 4 and 12 mg per day. So a whole day's testosterone will have the weight of a piece of thin printer paper (40gsm) measuring about 2cm square.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC289458/?page=8
More appropriately, the weight of about 0.01 ml of blood - say 1/500000 of all the blood in the body.
If you think the potential or kinetic energy in either of these could have any physical effect on the penis, think again.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC289458/?page=7

Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:20 pm
by Eagle
Although revealed in an environement where poetry and oratory speeches were loaded with explicitly lustful and indecent language and allusions, the Quran never departs from its pattern of using respectable language and concepts. When recounting the story of the mistress' attempted seduction of Yusuf, the Quran beautifully combines precision in expression with solemnity and chastity, and despite the fact that it talks about affairs of the heart, utilizes the principles of piety, morals and respect without being paralysed in the process. Linguistically, when the Quran addresses the themes of sex or sexual organs, its eloquence necessitates that it does not directly speak of testicles, penis or vagina. There are ample examples, such as 2:223 where it refers to sexual intercourse by using the imagery of the farmer cultivating his tilth with tenderness and deep consideration aforehand, or as "touching" the mate 2:236,237,4:43,5:6,33:49etc. The word for 'touching' is laamastum from the root L-M-S that means skin feeling an object interactively. It is used to mean mainly sex, or at least some form of foreplay. Other terminologies used in the Quran to refer to sexual intercourse is "covering" the mate 7:189 or in the context of refraining from sex it says "guarding the private parts" 23:5,33:35.
In some instances where the Quran refers to women's sexual organs it literaly speaks of 60:12"what lies between their legs and hands" among other apellations. 86:5-7 speaks of the fluid "coming out", ie exits and all people know from where seminal fluid gushes out from. The determination of the location where the fluid is formed is irrelevant to the point of the verse that is about pointing to man's humble and simple origins despite him growing into a highly complex creature, and how he will inevitably be humbled once again to simple elements then recreated and brought forth to render account. The rejecters of resurrection saw it as a far fetched thing, an impossibility for a human being to be grown back after its death, decay, and return to the earth.
So instead of stating that the fluid exits from the penis, it says "from between the sulb and the taraaib".
Sulb stems from S-L-B, implying strength, hardness, firmness, uprightness. Words like the backbone or the saleeb/crucifix (because of standing firmly upright) are derived from it.
Taraaib stems from T-R-B, implying some sort of resemblence, uniformity, harmony, symetry. It is used for example for turab/soil or dust, because dust grains are resembling and corresponding. Elsewhere it denotes how the mates of paradise match oneanother in many aspects 56:37,78:33 and it can similarily describe how certain body parts like the eyes, the hands, the legs, or the ribs etc. are matching. The statement "coming out from between the sulb/backbone and the taraaib/legs or ribs" refers to man's sexual organ just like "what lies between their legs and hands" subtely alludes to women's sexual parts.