Three of many errors in the Quran

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
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frankie
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Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by frankie »

The Quran makes three claims which are provably wrong.

Why are there errors in a book said to come from a divine being, which by the very title "god" should not make mistakes.

Claiming the earth is flat, 88.20

Claiming the Jews worship an eminent Jewish scribe Ezra, as God 9.30

Claiming sperm is produced between the backbone and the ribs 86.6-7

If Allah cannot get the basics right about his own creation, what hope is there for the rest of his book?

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SAM
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by SAM »

frankie wrote:The Quran makes three claims which are provably wrong.

Why are there errors in a book said to come from a divine being, which by the very title "god" should not make mistakes.

Claiming the earth is flat, 88.20

Claiming the Jews worship an eminent Jewish scribe Ezra, as God 9.30

Claiming sperm is produced between the backbone and the ribs 86.6-7

If Allah cannot get the basics right about his own creation, what hope is there for the rest of his book?
Quran 88:20, "And at the Earth, how it is made a vast expanse?"

Expanse does not mean it's flat...Dummy

Quran 9.30,The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

The Jews consider Uzair a very pious person. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia the title of son of God is used for pious people.... Dummy

Quran 86.5-7, Now let man but think From what he is created! He is created from A drop emitted—Proceedings from between the backbone (sulb) and the ribs (tara’ib).

According to Arabic meaning, the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female.

:stupid: :lol:
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manfred
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by manfred »

SAM, please discuss without being rude.
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SAM
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:SAM, please discuss without being rude.
If she want to discuss or debate. Don't anyhow quoting from anti Islam website..
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by manfred »

According to Arabic meaning, the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female.
That is language acrobatics proposed by a Frenchman, Maurice Bucaille, a medical doctor who converted to Islam and was King Faisal of Saudi Arabia's personal physician.

"sulb" can mean a penis in MODERN ARABIC slang, but we have no examples of such usage elsewhere in the Qur'an or any other classical Arabic text.
As to tarâ’ib , this last word occurs exactly the one time in the Qur'an and you cannot establish a meaning with one usage. The dictionaries of Wehr, Abdel-Nour, and Kasimirski mention (a)the chest, (b)the upper part of the chest between the breasts and the clavicles, and (c)the ribs, and Abdel-Nour includes (d)the euphemistic extension to the breasts. It can also include the neck up to the chin and speak poetically of the area for a woman's necklace.

No dictionary includes the female genital area, and Bucaille has given no examples from literature to support his idea.

So, SAM, he made that up, and you believed it.
Quran 88:20, "And at the Earth, how it is made a vast expanse?"
That is a still fair translation, but there is an attempt to hide the actual literal words.

And the earth how it is spread out? (Wa ilal'ardi kayfa sutihat.) Sutihat means "spread out", like a carpet, as it is said elsewhere, in 20:53.

And the Jalalayn have this to say about that verse:
At the earth how it is spread out (Arabic: sutihat): meaning it was stretched, so they can see in it a sign for the power of Allah ... and his saying sutihat makes it obvious that the earth is flat, and this is certified by Ulama' ash-shar'a (the shari'a theologians), not a globe as it is said by ahlul-hay'a (the laymen)."

In fact, the earth was considered flat by Muslims for many centuries, until Kafir scientists pointed out this is not right. Only then did they suddenly "discover a new meaning" in the Qur'an, but playing the kind of word games you like, SAM. Of course, you can find Muslims to this day who say the earth is flat... Madly, some of these work as science teachers in schools.
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manfred
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by manfred »

SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:SAM, please discuss without being rude.
If she want to discuss or debate. Don't anyhow quoting from anti Islam website..
Frankie, as far as I know, is a man, SAM.

It is OK to quote things, SAM, best with source though. If you can quote things from Muslim sites, why should others not be allows to quote from other sites.

It is by sharing thoughts and information, by looking at different viewpoints, we may get to learn new things.
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SAM
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
According to Arabic meaning, the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female.
That is language acrobatics proposed by a Frenchman, Maurice Bucaille, a medical doctor who converted to Islam and was King Faisal of Saudi Arabia's personal physician.

"sulb" can mean a penis in MODERN ARABIC slang, but we have no examples of such usage elsewhere in the Qur'an or any other classical Arabic text.
As to tarâ’ib , this last word occurs exactly the one time in the Qur'an and you cannot establish a meaning with one usage. The dictionaries of Wehr, Abdel-Nour, and Kasimirski mention (a)the chest, (b)the upper part of the chest between the breasts and the clavicles, and (c)the ribs, and Abdel-Nour includes (d)the euphemistic extension to the breasts. It can also include the neck up to the chin and speak poetically of the area for a woman's necklace.

No dictionary includes the female genital area, and Bucaille has given no examples from literature to support his idea.

So, SAM, he made that up, and you believed it.
The Quran Does NOT Say that Sperm is Created from between the Backbone and Ribs

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=2602" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image SULB
manfred wrote:
Quran 88:20, "And at the Earth, how it is made a vast expanse?"
That is a still fair translation, but there is an attempt to hide the actual literal words.

And the earth how it is spread out? (Wa ilal'ardi kayfa sutihat.) Sutihat means "spread out", like a carpet, as it is said elsewhere, in 20:53.

And the Jalalayn have this to say about that verse:
At the earth how it is spread out (Arabic: sutihat): meaning it was stretched, so they can see in it a sign for the power of Allah ... and his saying sutihat makes it obvious that the earth is flat, and this is certified by Ulama' ash-shar'a (the shari'a theologians), not a globe as it is said by ahlul-hay'a (the laymen)."

In fact, the earth was considered flat by Muslims for many centuries, until Kafir scientists pointed out this is not right. Only then did they suddenly "discover a new meaning" in the Qur'an, but playing the kind of word games you like, SAM. Of course, you can find Muslims to this day who say the earth is flat... Madly, some of these work as science teachers in schools.
I already told you before that Earth in Arabic also means territory, soil, ground, land .. :yuk:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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SAM
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:SAM, please discuss without being rude.
If she want to discuss or debate. Don't anyhow quoting from anti Islam website..
Frankie, as far as I know, is a man, SAM.

It is OK to quote things, SAM, best with source though. If you can quote things from Muslim sites, why should others not be allows to quote from other sites.

It is by sharing thoughts and information, by looking at different viewpoints, we may get to learn new things.
You, frankie, dr.sum_indoctrination and others have run out of ideas and repeating the same arguments over and over again. :whistling:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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Fernando
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by Fernando »

SAM, your link blames David Woods for the translation, and cites modern people who know that the original is incorrect. David Woods, however, is not alone:
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
So let man observe from what he was created.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
He was created from a fluid, ejected,

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.
https://quran.com/86/5-7
5. Let man consider what he was created from.

6. He was created from gushing liquid.

7. Issuing from between the backbone and the breastbones.

Quran in English. Clear and Easy to Read.
Translated by Talal Itani
http://www.clearquran.com/086.html
At-Tariq

Yakhruju min bayni alssulbi waalttaraibi
The morning star

That issued from between the loins and ribs.

[also:]
Ahmed Ali
Issuing from (the pelvis) between the backbone and the ribs.

Daryabadi
That issueth from between the loins and the breast-bones.

Muhammad Sarwar
which comes out of the loins and ribs.

Hamid S. Aziz
Which comes out from between the loins and the breast bones.

Faridul Haque
That is issued from between the backs and the ribs.

Shakir
Coming from between the back and the ribs.

Yusuf Ali
Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:

Ali Unal
It proceeds (as a result of incitement) between the (lumbar zone in the) vertebra and the ribs.

Amatul Rahman Omar
Which issues forth from between the loins and the breast-bones.

English Literal
It emerges/appears from between the spine and the rib bones.
http://www.alquranverse.com/86/7/Pickthall
Need I go on?
I must? OK, one more time

Humpty Dumpty
Issuing from where modern kaffir scientists say it does (which is what I meant all along).
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

frankie
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by frankie »

SAM wrote:
frankie wrote:The Quran makes three claims which are provably wrong.

Why are there errors in a book said to come from a divine being, which by the very title "god" should not make mistakes.

Claiming the earth is flat, 88.20

Claiming the Jews worship an eminent Jewish scribe Ezra, as God 9.30

Claiming sperm is produced between the backbone and the ribs 86.6-7

If Allah cannot get the basics right about his own creation, what hope is there for the rest of his book?
Quran 88:20, "And at the Earth, how it is made a vast expanse?"

Expanse does not mean it's flat...Dummy

Quran 9.30,The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

The Jews consider Uzair a very pious person. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia the title of son of God is used for pious people.... Dummy

Quran 86.5-7, Now let man but think From what he is created! He is created from A drop emitted—Proceedings from between the backbone (sulb) and the ribs (tara’ib).

According to Arabic meaning, the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female.

:stupid: :lol:

SAM:
The earth is flat according to the Quran and its commentators.
The Quran is in error, the earth is a provable sphere.

Quran 88.20
And at the Earth, how it is spread out?

Al Jalalayan tafsir 88.20


And the earth, how it was laid out flat?, and thus infer from this the power of God, exalted be He, and His Oneness? The commencing with the [mention of] camels is because they are closer in contact with it [the earth] than any other [animal]. As for His words sutihat, ‘laid out flat’, this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat, which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it, even if this [latter] does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law


"Sons of God" is a term used in the Bible to denote created human beings, not literally gods.

If it were so, then "pious" Noah, Ishmael, and the rest would be gods.

Ezra was just a renowned Jewish scholar, the Jews would be disobeying their own scriptures if they called him a "god "which would incur the death penalty.


Sperm is not produced between the backbone (of the man) and the ribs,(of the woman) the Quran is in error, making the Quran a man made book, not a god made book.

(Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) meaning, the backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest.

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=142" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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SAM
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by SAM »

The Quran is 100% correct compare to corrupted Bible.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

frankie
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by frankie »

The Quran is 100% correct compare to corrupted Bible.

SAM:

"The Quran is 100% correct compare to corrupted Bible"

Correction.

The Bible is 100% correct compare to corrupted Quran.

Whatever you want to say about the Bible, the Quran is still shown to be in error, just by three mistakes.

One error is one too many in a book said to come from Allah, the Quran proves itself to be man made, not god made.

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Fernando
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by Fernando »

SAM wrote:The Quran is 100% correct compare to corrupted Bible.
Are you saying that the Koran is 100% correct while the Bible is not, or that the Koran is twice as correct as the Bible? If the latter, that can be counted and debated. If you are claiming infallibility, on the other hand, that can only be challenged: not even 99.9% is enough.
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by piscohot »

Its no mistake that Muhammad (hence the quran) believed the earth is flat.

71:19 And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)

You spread the carpet flat on the ground, I have not see anyone using a carpet for the purpose of wrapping a round object.

Furthermore in the hadith, Muhammad described the resting place of the sun.

It was narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said to Abu Dharr when the sun set: “Do you know where it goes?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne, then it asks for permission (to rise) and permission is given to it.

If Muhammad believed that the world is round, then he would know that when the sun disappear from one half of the earth, it appears in the other half of the earth.
But Muhammad believed that the world is flat and hence when it disappear from sight from his part of the earth, the Sun surely must be beneath something, and that is 'under Allah's throne waiting for permission to rise again'. :lol:

The quran is perfectly clear and easy to understand, as far as this verse is concerned. :lol:
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by Centaur »

Muslim translators try to do damage control when translating to English. :smartass: flat will be expanse thus making it bit ambiguous.
Last edited by Centaur on Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

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clown naik lies without any shame.
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manfred
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by manfred »

Not too long ago, Garudaman, we had this Muslim guy telling us how science is all wrong or lying to us, and that the earth is flat, over and over.

Have a look:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17268" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How do you explain this?

Now let's look at the imagery used in the Qur'an. When I say "like a carpet" what does it suggest? When I call something "spread out" or "like a bed/carpet" what comes to your mind? Also when you say it is like the place an ostrich lays its egg into, what are you thinking? Here is a picture of an ostrich nest:



When we read about a rising and a setting place of the sun, what does that suggest?

How about the sun and the moon each having a "course" (orbit?) but not the earth? What does it mean?

Also, garudaman, Muslims have believed and taught for many centuries that the earth was flat, and it seems that only modern science made them read the old text in a new way.

Now, your fitted carpet pictures are cute, but fitted carpets were entirely unknown during Mohammed's time.
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Fernando
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by Fernando »

manfred wrote:Also, garudaman, Muslims have believed and taught for many centuries that the earth was flat, and it seems that only modern science made them read the old text in a new way.
Let's see:
Alif Lam Ra. A Book whose verses are set clear
Clear, that is, given the lens of science to see what they really mean, evidently.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Garudaman
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Re: Three of many errors in the Quran

Post by Garudaman »

manfred wrote:Not too long ago, Garudaman, we had this Muslim guy telling us how science is all wrong or lying to us, and that the earth is flat, over and over.

Have a look:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17268" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How do you explain this?
do you really believe that he's really muslim?
manfred wrote:When I say "like a carpet" what does it suggest? When I call something "spread out" or "like a bed/carpet" what comes to your mind? Also when you say it is like the place an ostrich lays its egg into, what are you thinking?
comfort place.
manfred wrote:Now, your fitted carpet pictures are cute, but fitted carpets were entirely unknown during Mohammed's time.
Spoiler! :
Image Image Image Image Image Image
Last edited by Garudaman on Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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