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Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:54 pm
by wajar
Sorry for my english,
I am from non speaking english country.

BUt what I wrote is basee on islamic sites.
=====================


http://www.alsofwah.or.id/cetakkajian.p ... judul=2400

Pasal 41.
Apabila ada tiga orang yang sama-sama menggauli budak wanita ketika dia suci
ketiga-tiganya telah menggaulinya
kemudian wanita tersebut melahirkan dan ketiga-tiganya mengaku anaknya,
maka dilakukan undian di antara ketiganya.


If three masters have intercourse with woman slave together while she was not haidh,
and then the woman get pregnant,
and then they lottery between them (to decide who is the father of the boy or sister).


Stressing in link:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/barda-vi
If two or more owners of a slave woman have coitus
with her during a single menstrual cycle during which she becomes pregnant,
paternity is established by lot
(Ḥorr ʿĀmelī, VII/1, p. 566).

Terdapat sedikit perbedaan pd pandangan berikut (tapi pd intinya tetap DIPERBOLEHKAN BAGI MAJIKAN BERSAMA UNTUK MENIKMATI BUDAK WANITANYA TANPA KAHAWIN .. !!!)
https://books.google.co.id/books?id=sIR ... her&f=true
Look at 105 dan 106

A different hadist said :
IF THE SLAVE BELONGS JOINTLY TO TWO OWNERS AND SHE GIVES BIRTH,
AND ONE OF THE TWO CLAIMS THE CHILD, THE CHILD IS MADE HIS AND SHE BECOMES HIS UMM-WALAD.
BUT HE OWES TO THE OTHER HALF THE INDEMNITY FOR THE UNSURPATION OF THIS SLAVE'S SEX ('UQR) AND HALF HER ESTIMATED VALUE

IF BOTH THE CO-OWNERS CLAIM THE CHILD, ITS PATERNITY IS ESTABLISHED WITH REGARD TO BOTH OF THEM. THE MOTHER BECOMES THE CONCUBINE-MOTHER TO BOTH OF THE AND EACH OWES THE OTHER HALF THE INDEMNITU FOR THE UNSURPATION OF THE SEX OF THAT SLAVE.


Almost the same concept:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/islam ... idel-women
“Question 8:
If two or more [men] buy a female captive together, does she then become [sexually] permissible to each of them?

“It is forbidden to have intercourse with a female captive if [the master] does not own her exclusively.
One who owns [a captive] in partnership [with others]

may not have sexual intercourse with her

until the other [owners] sell or give him [their share].


So how can two or more master can intercourse one after another with one / or the same slave woman?
EASY ......

One master JUST GIVE AWAY THEIR SHARE TO HIS COUNTERPARTS .....,
AND THEN CONTINOUSLY - AGAIN AND AGAIN,
FROM ONE MASTER TO THE OTHER MASTER,
AS LONG AS THEY ARE (THE MASTER) COMPLIANT TO EACH OTHER


Last but not least,
from my book:
IBNU QUDAMAH
16
AL MUGHNI
PAGE 526


IF TWO MASTERS INTERCOURSE WITH WOMAN SLAVE MUKATAB TOGETHER AND THE WOMAN DELIVERY THE BABY

..........................
From a lot of law mentioned there,
I just quote the last one :
THEY WILL CALL AND ASK FOR THE EXPERT OF NASAB (EXPERT IN DETERMINE WHO IS THE FATHER OF THE BABY BY ITS PHYSICALLY SIMILIARITY TO THE FATHER),
TO DETERMINE, JUDGE AND CHOOSE WHICH ONE IS MORE PROPER TO BECAME THE FATHER OF THE BABY .....


NB:
Mukatab means, the slave that periodicaly paying money - in term of certain periode of time,
to the master for (later on can buy) his or her own indpendence.

Even worse (from the same book),
Master that already married his woman slave to another man or to a man slave,
he can still INTERCOURSE WITH HER ....

There is a law for him,
the name is TADZIR ....

But the TADZIR LAW is decide by the wise of the judge.

It is not A HAD or QISAS law (Stoning or Hitting by A Stick).

Since in islam there is two things that man can allowed to intercourse with woman:
1. By HAVING HER (Malakul Yamin) or = Having Her As A SLAVE.
2. By Married Her (NIKAH).

In islam, Akad (LAW) of Malakul Yamin or HAVING HER AS PROPERTY,
is Ranking / Rating HIGHER and STRONGER THEN Akad Nikah!!!

So a master cannot be implemented of law HAD or QISAS such for ADULTERY or ZINA,
just because WHEN HE INTERCOURSE OR COPULATE HER (Even she already married with another man),
THE MASTER STILL HAVE HER - AS A PART OF HIS PROPERTY, FROM LAW OF AKAD MALAKUL YAMIN ... !!!


Ussually the master only obligate to pay the mahar (a certain value of money that no more than the price of woman slave itself if she is being sold in the market slave).
=================================

If you STILL dont believe, look at this link:
http://contohdakwahislam.blogspot.co.id ... walad.html

Ketika sang majikan menjima’ budak perempuannnya, walau telah dinikahkan dengan orang lain,
kemudian si budak melahirkan bayi,
si budak berstatus mustauladah bagi sang majikan, maka kalau demikian haram bagi sang majikan untuk menjualnya
Bagi sang majikan diperkenankan memanfaatkan si budak sebagai pelayan, dijima’, disewakan dan dipinjamkan.

In english:
If the master intercourse with the slave woman - even that slave already married with another man,
and then she delivered a baby,
the slave woman become ummu walad to her master (slave who give baby to her master)
it Is not lawful or forbiden to the master TO SELL THE WOMAN SLAVE (UMMU WALAD).
BUT It is lawful or allowed for the master to INTERCOURSE HER, RENTING HER TO ANOTHER MASTER AND LENDING HER TO ANOTHER MASTER.


================

From the same book - later on I will show you the page and the scan page),
If the other master INTERCPURSE TO WOMAN SLAVE THAT BELONGS TO TWO MASTERS,
One MASTER IS ENOUGH JUST TO PAY THE MAHAR,
AND HE JUST GIVE THAT MAHAR TO HIS PARTNER .... !!!

Ilustration:
Two man (Ali and Zain) buy a beauty young woman slave from market for 100 dinnar (example).
They give their share of 50 dinar each other.
If one master (Ali) want to copulate with her,
Ali then just pay mahar mitsl after intercourse with her,
to Zain ... !!!

Mahar mitsl is price that decide by AND BETWEEN the master themselves as a gentlement agreement.
Let's say the mahar mitsl can only 10 dinar or even less.

it is lawful and legal .... !!!

ANd then if Zain want to copulate with her too later on,
just nail her, and then pay mahar mitsl 10 dinar to Ali ....

it is lawful and legal .... !!!

==============

What A RAHMATAN ALAMIN Relgion,
especially for MAN ....

So in malay word slank :
islam is RAHMATAN KELAMIN (Bless for - Especially Man, Genital)
religion .....

Re: Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:09 pm
by frankie
wajar:

I would like to know the reason you have come onto the Faithfreedom web site, are you agreeing with Islam that sexual slavery of women in a religious context is a good thing, or are you just posing from Islamic sources because you can?

Re: Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:48 pm
by manfred
You are doing perfectly well with your English, but if you want to write in Indonesian, its OK I will translate.

Now this passage is rather odd...in Islamic law, there is a hugely important distinction which, oddly, is rarely clearly explained.

There are laws forbidding something, but then, sometimes immediately afterwards, we get a matter of fact legal texts dealing with what to do if the very thing forbidden earlier is contravened.

For example, we have sharia texts saying that any slave may only have ONE master or mistress, but then we have the passage you quoted.

It is easy to reach the conclusion that these instructions are contradictory, when in reality one discusses the "norm" and the other the "exception".

---- only translation ---


Bahasa Inggris anda sudah bagus, tapi jika anda mau menulis dalam Bahasa Indonesia, saya bisa menterjemahkanya.

Tapi pasal ini agak aneh….dalam hukum islam, ada perbedaan yang sangat penting yang anehnya tidak selalu dijelaskan dengan jelas.

Ada hukum melarang sesuatu, tapi kadang-kadang setelah itu diikuti dengan kata-kata yang menunjukan bagaimana caranya mengatasi masalah yang sebelumnya sudah dilarang.

Sebagai contoh: Kita punya hukum syariah yang mengatakan, bahwa seorang budak hanya boleh punya satu tuan/majikan, tapi kemudian kita punya pasal-pasal seperti yang anda sebutkan.

Sangatlah mudah untuk menarik kesimpulan, bahwa instruksi ini bertolak belakang, padahal kenyataannya dalam satu pasal sebagian membahas sesuatu yang ‘dilarang’ dan sebagian lagi membahas bagaimana cara ‘mengatasinya’ kalau sudah terjadi.

Re: Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:08 am
by wajar
Thx for your advise.
But because this site is an english version,
i try my best to write in english anyway.
========

Okay I agree.
forbiden law is one side,
and how to solve or overcome the problem is in the other side of story.

Re: Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:20 am
by wajar
frankie wrote:wajar:

I would like to know the reason you have come onto the Faithfreedom web site, are you agreeing with Islam that sexual slavery of women in a religious context is a good thing, or are you just posing from Islamic sources because you can?


In my opinion,
islam is spreadwide just because a lot of people just know a good things about islam,
or islam is good.

But it is not at all.

I am used to be a moslem.

A lot of women think islam will honour them,
but actually islam treat women in opposite direction.

Why in islam country women can not work as a profesional such a doctor, driver, teacher, sales manager, pilot, board of director, camerawoman, editor and so on?
If there are, only very little in number.....

Because in islam,
only 2 ways that women can have nafkah (Fund or paid).
1. From her parents
2. From Jima (Intercourse)

From Jima there are two:
1. As A Wives
2. As A Slave Women

SO if we can tell women in the world how bad islam for them,
if realy RIGHTFULL syari' of islam being implemented,
women will be only as a property for men,
especially from their sultan, master, clerk, imam ....,
nothing else ....

See what isis already done the women mualaf (new comer to islam).

What isis doing is nothing worng in islam,
because they have the lawful to do that in syari',
such intercourse to women slave ....

Re: Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:34 am
by wajar
manfred wrote:You are doing perfectly well with your English, but if you want to write in Indonesian, its OK I will translate.

Now this passage is rather odd...in Islamic law, there is a hugely important distinction which, oddly, is rarely clearly explained.

There are laws forbidding something, but then, sometimes immediately afterwards, we get a matter of fact legal texts dealing with what to do if the very thing forbidden earlier is contravened.

For example, we have sharia texts saying that any slave may only have ONE master or mistress, but then we have the passage you quoted.

It is easy to reach the conclusion that these instructions are contradictory, when in reality one discusses the "norm" and the other the "exception".

---- only translation ---


Bahasa Inggris anda sudah bagus, tapi jika anda mau menulis dalam Bahasa Indonesia, saya bisa menterjemahkanya.

Tapi pasal ini agak aneh….dalam hukum islam, ada perbedaan yang sangat penting yang anehnya tidak selalu dijelaskan dengan jelas.

Ada hukum melarang sesuatu, tapi kadang-kadang setelah itu diikuti dengan kata-kata yang menunjukan bagaimana caranya mengatasi masalah yang sebelumnya sudah dilarang.

Sebagai contoh: Kita punya hukum syariah yang mengatakan, bahwa seorang budak hanya boleh punya satu tuan/majikan, tapi kemudian kita punya pasal-pasal seperti yang anda sebutkan.

Sangatlah mudah untuk menarik kesimpulan, bahwa instruksi ini bertolak belakang, padahal kenyataannya dalam satu pasal sebagian membahas sesuatu yang ‘dilarang’ dan sebagian lagi membahas bagaimana cara ‘mengatasinya’ kalau sudah terjadi.


A few thing that i mentioned is not lawful or forbiden in islam.
Such is :
Selling woman slavery,
and after buy her,
I new master can intercourse with her.

If the two master set a contract between them in compliant gentlement agreement,
if someone sell his slave to other, they have the right to buyback his slave as mentioned in contract,
so the woman slave is become nothing more as a whore, but in a syari' way.

Since is not forbiden in akad jual beli (Selling Buying Transaction).

And also paying woman slave with mahr mits after having sex with her.
It is not lawful or forbiden in islam.
Even though it is a solution that islam give, isn't it?
=====================

Beberapa hal yg saya tuliskan tidak bertentangan dalam hukum islam.
Seperti menjual budak.
Dan budak yng sudah dibeli, prkatis bisa dijima majikan barunya tanpa akad nikah.

Maka jika ada dua orang majikan - atau lebih, membuat suatu kesepakatan di antara mereka,
yang saling merelakan kepemilikan atas budak mereka - untuk saling dijual belikan (atau untuk dijima secara bergilir / bergantian kemudian),
maka wanita tsb tidak lebih hanya sebagai obyek pemuas sex bagi tuannya.


Karena akad jual beli budak tidak dilarang dalam islam.


Begitu juga dengan membayar mahar mitsl dari tuan satunya kepada tuan yang lain,
setelah salah satu tuan menjima'nya,
ini tidak dilarang dalam islam,
bahkan itu adalah solusi yg diberikan oleh islam bukan?

Re: Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:38 pm
by frankie
wajar wrote:
frankie wrote:wajar:

I would like to know the reason you have come onto the Faithfreedom web site, are you agreeing with Islam that sexual slavery of women in a religious context is a good thing, or are you just posing from Islamic sources because you can?


In my opinion,
islam is spreadwide just because a lot of people just know a good things about islam,
or islam is good.

But it is not at all.

I am used to be a moslem.

A lot of women think islam will honour them,
but actually islam treat women in opposite direction.

Why in islam country women can not work as a profesional such a doctor, driver, teacher, sales manager, pilot, board of director, camerawoman, editor and so on?
If there are, only very little in number.....

Because in islam,
only 2 ways that women can have nafkah (Fund or paid).
1. From her parents
2. From Jima (Intercourse)

From Jima there are two:
1. As A Wives
2. As A Slave Women

SO if we can tell women in the world how bad islam for them,
if realy RIGHTFULL syari' of islam being implemented,
women will be only as a property for men,
especially from their sultan, master, clerk, imam ....,
nothing else ....

See what isis already done the women mualaf (new comer to islam).

What isis doing is nothing worng in islam,
because they have the lawful to do that in syari',
such intercourse to women slave ....


wajar:

Thank you for your clarification, you are to be commended for leaving Islam, knowing the penalty for doing so makes you a person of courage.

Your input on all things Islamic will be invaluable to the discussions held on here, hope you remain long enough to refute soundly those who believe Islam is something the world needs.

Re: Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:53 pm
by wajar
Jesus SACRIFICE HIM SELF to SALVAGE others
Muhammad SACRIFICE OTHERS to help him - entering islam's paradiso ......
=================

Continued.

What is adultary syari'?

Conventional Jimbo's Pimp, receive a paying from lending their whore to a redneck jackass ....
Let's say the price of whore is 100 Dinar for hour or two,
or 500 dinar for all night long and day .....
It is absolutely forbiden and not lawfull in islam law syari'!

So how do they make it rightfull for them?

It is BY TRANSACTION OF BUYING AND SELLING OF WOMEN SLAVERY ....!!

First the master SELL HIS WOMAN SLAVE For 1.000 Dinar.
But they make Compliant Gentlemen Agreement,
that after some period of time - a day for example,
another master MUST SELL BACK His Woman Slave to Him (First Master).

But in term of Depreciation and as Accordance with time consuming,
the Value and the SELLING price of that woman slave after transaction a day before,
is now dropped and only become 500 Dinar.

So the first master (Jimbo's Pimp) get 500 Dinar - in a day from his whore ...uuuppps, his woman slave,
From Selling 1.000 and then Buying 500 ===> 1.000 - 500 = 500 Profit ....

And the second master (Redneck Jaksass) paying 500 Dinar - for a whole fun day with a whore ....., uups wrong again, a woman slave.
From Buying 1.000 and then Selling 500 ===> 500 - 1.000 = - 500 (or defisit 500 as a consequence / payment the woman slave for intercourse)

It is the rightfull way to an adultery syari' in islam law ......

Re: Masters Can Intercourse Together With Woman Slave

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:22 am
by piscohot
wajar wrote:If three masters have intercourse with woman slave together while she was not haidh,
and then the woman get pregnant,
and then they lottery between them (to decide who is the father of the boy or sister).


Basically, a slave in the house can be raped by the grandfather, father and son of the household.

A muslim woman cannot have more than one husband but a slave can be raped by 3 men of the same blood.

evil, evil, evil. :yuk:

This from the perfect book, a guide to mankind?

wajar wrote:One master JUST GIVE AWAY THEIR SHARE TO HIS COUNTERPARTS .....,
AND THEN CONTINOUSLY - AGAIN AND AGAIN,
FROM ONE MASTER TO THE OTHER MASTER,
AS LONG AS THEY ARE (THE MASTER) COMPLIANT TO EACH OTHER



permission to pimp their slaves.

:x