Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
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debunker
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by debunker »

@ Cassie


First off, Al-Insan AlKamel claim is a lie... even the Quran says he sinned.

Anyway, you seem to ignore that in the covenant of Umar, Umar was referring to custom in other already conquered cities as the example he's following... how about you read Ami Isseroff (an Israeli) in FULL.
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

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debunker wrote:@ Cassie


First off, Al-Insan AlKamel claim is a lie... even the Quran says he sinned.

Anyway, you seem to ignore that in the covenant of Umar, Umar was referring to custom in other already conquered cities as the example he's following... how about you read Ami Isseroff (an Israeli) in FULL.
Let us suppose al insane camel is a lie, as you claim. Does that mean Umar, and not Muhammad, was the messenger of Allah? Umar carried on the business of imposing dhimmitude on the Jews and Christians (which is a form of slavery).

This is what your Umar did:

"A woman was wed to her male slave. Umar intended to stone her, but instead he made them separate and sent the slave to exile. He told the woman, `It is unlawful for you to get married to your owned slave!' Another woman got married to her slave. Umar scourged her with a whip and forbade any man to marry her. Another time, a freewoman came to Umar and told him, `I am not a pretty woman and I have a slave to whom I would like to get married.' Umar refused to do so. He whipped the slave and ordered him to be sold in a foreign country. He told the woman, `It is unlawful for you to get married to what your right hand owns. Only men have the right to get wed to what their right hand owns. Even if you set him free in order to marry him and he becomes a freeman, the manumission will be invalid and the marriage is not valid."' Vol. 8, Part 11, pp. 248, 249, Ibn Hazm.


Does Umar's actions absolve Muhammad and Allah of slavery? No. Why did it take non-Muslims to impose emancipation on Muslims? Why did it take you 14 centuries of enslaving women and children for white men to come to your country to tell you to stop doing it?

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

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Again, I said the covenant of Umar exemplfies the Islamic rules of conquest as to never harm the non combatants.

And now, you give me some other piece of history you believe in. So, do you believe too that Umar's covenant exemplified the Islamic conquest or not?

Which historical stories do you choose to believe? All of them?
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by KhaliL »

________________________
debunker wrote:Al-Insan AlKamel claim is a lie... even the Quran says he sinned.

I would like you to quote Quran: 4:59& 34:28.

And I would like to have a reference from Quran for the statement
"even Quran says he sinned"
Thank you

KF

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by yeezevee »

KF
I would like you to quote Quran: 4:59& 34:28.

And I would like to have a reference from Quran for the statement
well dear Khalil FarieL., more than that, I would love read your comments on this
Again, I said the covenant of Umar exemplfies the Islamic rules of conquest as to never harm the non combatants.

And now, you give me some other piece of history you believe in. So, do you believe too that Umar's covenant exemplified the Islamic conquest or not?

Which historical stories do you choose to believe? All of them?
question here is., during Prophet Muhammad's time and in the times of caliphs..

Q1). Who were the combatants and who were non-combatants.

Q2). Which historical stories do you choose to believe? All of them?

so I would like read the answer of Q1).. from you

but let me give the historical stories list of Islam for Q2).
621: First pledge at Aqaba.
622: Second pledge at Aqaba. The Holy Prophet and the Muslims migrate to Yathrib.
623: Nakhla expedition.
624: Battle of Badr. Expulsion of the Bani Qainuqa Jews from Madina.
625: Battle of Uhud. Massacre of 70 Muslims at Bir Mauna. Expulsion of Banu Nadir Jews from Madina. Second expedition of Badr.
626: Expedition of Banu Mustaliq.
627: Battle of the Trench. Expulsion of Banu Quraiza Jews.
628: Truce of Hudaibiya. Expedition to Khyber. The Holy Prophet addresses letters to various heads of states.
629: The Holy Prophet performs the pilgrimage at Makkah. Expedition to Muta (Romans).
630: Conquest of Makkah. Battles of Hunsin, Auras, and Taif.
631: Expedition to Tabuk. Year of Deputations.
The above historical stories are from Mr. PBUH off course Our Caliphs.. Two father in-Laws of Mr. PBUHand two son in-laws of Mr. Muhammad were also part of the above stories. pufff My man 632: Holy Prophet left for heavenly houries in the year 632 by eating poison laced LAMB CHOP from a jewess

Now we have Father In-LaW-1; The BAKHRA .. Abu-bakr an Idiot who gives his 6 year old child to our Mr. PBUh without any question.,

Now let us have Father In-LaW BAKHRA's historical stories
Year 632: Usamah leads expedition to Syria.
Battles of Zu Qissa and Abraq.
Battles of Buzakha, Zafar and Naqra.
Campaigns against Bani Tamim
and Musailima, the Liar.

year 633: Campaigns in Bahrain,
Campaigns in Oman,
Campaigns in Mahrah Yemen, and Hadramaut.
Campaigns in Raids in Iraq.
Campaigns in Battles of Kazima, Mazar, Walaja, Ulleis, Hirah, Anbar, Ein at tamr, Daumatul Jandal and Firaz.

634: Battles of Basra, Damascus and Ajnadin. Offfhhff My Bakhra is dead
So in the year 634. The Rogue.. The Brute ..my man.. The Father inlaw-2Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes Caliph . We have to realize here., Although Mr. PUBH was dead during the wars Bakhra., but our other three Caliphs Omar the brute and other two con-inlaws of Mr. PUBh was part of those campaigns/wars of Abu Bakr. and let us read stories of Mr. Caliph Omar.
634: Battles of Namaraq and Saqatia.
635: Battle of Bridge. Battle of Buwaib. Conquest of Damascus. Battle of Fahl.
636: Battle of Yermuk. Battle of Qadsiyia. Conquest of Madain.
637: Conquest of Syria. Fall of Jerusalem. Battle of Jalula.
638: Conquest of Jazirah.
639: Conquest of Khuizistan. Advance into Egypt.
640: Capture of the post of Caesaria in Syria. Conquest of Shustar and Jande Sabur in Persia. Battle of Babylon in Egypt.
641: Battle of Nihawand. Conquest Of Alexandria in Egypt.
642: Battle of Rayy in Persia. Conquest of Egypt. Foundation of Fustat.
643: Conquest of Azarbaijan and Tabaristan (Russia).
644: Conquest of Fars, Kerman, Sistan, Mekran and Kharan.

Martyrdom of Hadrat Umar. Hadrat Othman becomes the Caliph.

645: Campaigns in Fats.
646: Campaigns in Khurasan, Armeain and Asia Minor.
647: Campaigns in North Africa. Conquest of the island of Cypress.
648: Campaigns against the Byzantines.
651: Naval battle of the Masts against the Byzantines.
652: Discontentment and disaffection against the rule of Hadrat Othman.
656: Martyrdom of Hadrat Othman.
Now we started the game WITH-IN BRUTES that became brutes because mr. BUH and his political Islam., So that guy Mr. Omar was Murdered.

Any one wants to know more stories of most excellent Islam?? I still left the stories of The Son on-law of Mr. PUBH ., it goes all the way to year 680., and.. and off course our two son in-laws son in-law caliphs were also murdered by Muslims .

combatants and who were non-combatants., Who are/were these combatants and who were non-combatants in Islam???

People use very little common sense in analyzing Mr. Muhammad's Islam., Mostly the brain goes for Allah sense with full of desert sand in it..

please dear friends use some common sense..

with best regards
yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Mon May 04, 2009 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by Chiclets »

Hey yeze, do you have such stories of Caliph Ali ?
gupsfu wrote:When someone uses the "taken out of context" argument without explaining what it's really supposed to mean, you know he's lying.
Muslims are so secure in their faith that they need to kill those who don’t share it.

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

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@ Khalil
I would like you to quote Quran: 4:59& 34:28. And I would like to have a reference from Quran for the statement
48:2
That God may forgive you your faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to you; and guide you on the Straight Way;

47:19
Know, therefore, that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for your fault, and for the men and women who believe: for God knows how you move about and how you dwell in your homes.

40:55
Patiently, then, persevere: for the Promise of God is true: and ask forgiveness for your fault, and celebrate the Praises of your Lord in the evening and in the morning.

EDIT: I hope that you do realize that the underlined red text is addresseing Muhammed. And guess what? I don't need Tafsir or Hadith to know that... there is two Arabic forms for "your an you"... one of them is singular and that's the one that was used in these verses.

He was also reproached by God for the way he treated a blind man (he's clearly not perfect)
80:1-10
Spoiler! :
He frowned and turned away. Because the blind man came unto him. And what would make you know that he would purify himself (believe)? Or take heed and so the reminder might avail him?

As for him who considers himself free from need (of you), Unto him you turn your attention. Yet it is not your concern if he purifies himself (believe).

But as to him who came to you striving earnestly, And he fears, Of him you were unmindful.
Also he, according to the Quran, was tempted to add verses to the Quran to appease the pagans in terms of religion. They were, after all, his family and friends before all of this. He was under a tremendous pressure and he almost gave in (because he's not perfect).

Here are the verses (I'll modify translation)

17:73-75
Spoiler! :
And they almost tempted you to turn away from that which We have revealed to you, that you should forge against Us other than that, and then they would certainly have taken you for a friend.

And had We not made you firm, you almost inclined to them a little;

And if you did We would certainly have made you to taste a double (punishment) in this life and a double (punishment) after death, then you would not have found any helper against Us.
Quran: 4:59& 34:28
I don't see how these verses are relevant to the claim that he's perfect! But clearly, all the verses I listed already is ample evdidence that he's NOT perfect.
Last edited by debunker on Mon May 04, 2009 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by yeezevee »

Hey yeze, do you have such stories of Caliph Ali ?
A good book to read on that is..


Islamic imperialism By Efraim Karsh

http://books.google.com/books?id=8Rw0No ... raim+Karsh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you can read some parts that are relevant, how Persia and Persians became Islamic Slaves ane How Present President MONKEY of Iran comes out of that relationship between Bedouin desert Brutes and innocent Persian Women.. Mr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad(PBUH) is a perfect example of such combination.. but I will put together a list on that subject of Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib and his rule as Islamic Caliphate from 656 to 661.

yeezevee

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by debunker »

and why don't you also add, add the story of assassination of Othman? The war between Ali and Muawiah supported by Aicha? etc, etc...Also, Yazeed son of Muawiyah who slaughtered the grandchild of Muhammed... etc, etc.
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by Chiclets »

yeezevee wrote:
Hey yeze, do you have such stories of Caliph Ali ?
A good book to read on that is..


Islamic imperialism By Efraim Karsh

http://books.google.com/books?id=8Rw0No ... raim+Karsh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you can read some parts that are relevant, how Persia and Persians became Islamic Slaves ane How Present President MONKEY of Iran comes out of that relationship between Bedouin desert Brutes and innocent Persian Women.. Mr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad(PBUH) is a perfect example of such combination.. but I will put together a list on that subject of Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib and his rule as Islamic Caliphate from 656 to 661.

yeezevee
The reason I asked is because there are many Iranians who regard him next to Muhammad in piety.
gupsfu wrote:When someone uses the "taken out of context" argument without explaining what it's really supposed to mean, you know he's lying.
Muslims are so secure in their faith that they need to kill those who don’t share it.

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by debunker »

The reason I asked is because there are many Iranians who regard him next to Muhammad in piety.
Actually Chiclets, you are WRONG! They worship Ali... they pray to him and his sons Hussein and Hasan! They also worship their mother Fatima... in Khumeini's book he describes her "literally" as a godess.
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by KhaliL »

_____________________

@yeezevee, I was not missing this from debunker but I felt like leaving it to Cassie. Now:
debunker wrote:Again, I said the covenant of Umar exemplfies the Islamic rules of conquest as to never harm the non combatants.
Banu Quraiza massacre carried out by Muhammad exemplifies slaughtering of innocents just for the sin of having a little hair grown up in their pubic area.

"I was among the captives of Banu qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair". [Atiyyah al-Qurazi/Sunan Abu Dawud: Book: 38, Hadith: 4390]

Allah endorsed it in Quran:

And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew and ye made captive some. [Quran: Chapter: 33:26]

Again, Muhammad did not even leave plants. Palm trees of Banu Nadir were burnt by the merciful man of god:

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet got the date palm trees of the tribe of Bani-An-Nadir burnt and the trees cut down at a place called Al-Buwaira . Hassan bin Thabit said in a poetic verse: "The chiefs of Bani Lu'ai found it easy to watch fire spreading at Al-Buwaira." [Sahih Bukhari: Book: 39, Hadith: 519]

Quran testifies the incident:

Whatsoever palm trees ye cut down or left standing on their roots, it was by Allah's leave, in order that He might confound the evil-livers.[Quran: 59:5]

Did not yor god know boys and trees can NOT combat?

KF

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

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All I know about Banu Quraizah is they were warred against NOT in conquest, NOR in self-defense but rather in REVENGE for their betrayal and trying to stab the Muslims in the back while warring with the pagans... anyway, I'll research the details myself... but in any case, the war with Banu Quraizah is neither self defense NOR conquest... it was an isolated case of revenge... like I said... i'll check the details myself.

EDIT:

By the way, are you convinced now that according to the Quran Muhammed is NOT perfect?
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1700&p=35522#p35514" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

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All I know about Banu Quraizah is they were warred against NOT in conquest, NOR in self-defense but rather in REVENGE for their betrayal and trying to stab the Muslims in the back while warring with the pagans... anyway, I'll research the details myself...
betrayal?? what betrayal??

Nonsense., You go raiding your neighbors houses, even though they happened to be your own uncle and other relatives & town people and.. and you ask me for help in robbing them., if i don't help you on robing people, IT BECOMES betrayal?? ..what betrayal??

what kind of logic is that??..
but in any case, the war with Banu Quraizah is neither self defense NOR conquest...
That is right it was neither self defense NOR conquest.., It is BRUTAL ROGUES who is following Mr. PBUH attacking, killing, raping and looting the innocent folk.

yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Mon May 04, 2009 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by KhaliL »

________________________
debunker wrote: @ Khalil
I would like you to quote Quran: 4:59& 34:28. And I would like to have a reference from Quran for the statement
48:2
That God may forgive you your faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to you; and guide you on the Straight Way;
It is in the future tense in Quran. "Will forgive". Not sufficient to state Muhammad sinned.
debunker wrote:47:19
Know, therefore, that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for your fault, and for the men and women who believe: for God knows how you move about and how you dwell in your homes.

40:55
Patiently, then, persevere: for the Promise of God is true: and ask forgiveness for your fault, and celebrate the Praises of your Lord in the evening and in the morning.
Not EXCLUSIVE to Muhammad, Allah targets all believers. Allah encourages repentance; NOT sufficient to prove Muhammad sinned.
debunker wrote:He was also reproached by God for the way he treated a blind man (he's clearly not perfect)
80:1-10
Spoiler! :
He frowned and turned away. Because the blind man came unto him. And what would make you know that he would purify himself (believe)? Or take heed and so the reminder might avail him?

As for him who considers himself free from need (of you), Unto him you turn your attention. Yet it is not your concern if he purifies himself (believe).

But as to him who came to you striving earnestly, And he fears, Of him you were unmindful.
Sin means doing what Allah forbidden. Here in the case of blind man, god's reproach came later so it becomes sin only after Allah establishing it as sin. Therefore this verse can NOT be used to prove Muhammad sinned.
debunker wrote:Also he, according to the Quran, was tempted to add verses to the Quran to appease the pagans in terms of religion. They were, after all, his family and friends before all of this. He was under a tremendous pressure and he almost gave in (because he's not perfect).

Here are the verses (I'll modify translation) <snip>
But did he fall for the temptation? The verses you brought do NOT prove so. Bring me something from Quran to prove Muhammad SINNED. NOT Muhammad being tempted.
debunker wrote:
Quran: 4:59& 34:28
I don't see how these verses are relevant to the claim that he's perfect! But clearly, all the verses I listed already is ample evdidence that he's NOT perfect.
The verse contains the word كَافَّةً "Kaffatan" which would stand for god making Muhammad a perfect man for the whole of mankind.

[Disclaimer: All the above are Muslim arguments. For me Muhammad is a real charlatan] :lol:

KF

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by debunker »

If you are still ARGUING that according to the Quran, Muhammed was NOT perfect and God did not forgive his sins.. then there's really no point for me to waste my time and respond to any of your arguments.

Regards.
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

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debunker wrote:All I know about Banu Quraizah is they were warred against NOT in conquest, NOR in self-defense but rather in REVENGE for their betrayal and trying to stab the Muslims in the back while warring with the pagans... anyway, I'll research the details myself... but in any case, the war with Banu Quraizah is neither self defense NOR conquest... it was an isolated case of revenge... like I said... i'll check the details myself.

EDIT:

By the way, are you convinced now that according to the Quran Muhammed is NOT perfect?
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1700&p=35522#p35514" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Listen: I have two articles on Banu Quraiza in FFI Frontpage. If you may go through them:

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index. ... e&sid=2096" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index. ... e&sid=2101" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Go on please, spare your time.

KF

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

debunker wrote:
So what if slavery still exists today - practised by criminals and Muslims apparently. It's still barbaric. That's why the civilized world, note the word "civilized", banned it.
Indeed, the Americans, for example, were criminal savages who kidnapped people from Africa and made them their slaves.

And they didn't kidnap them, they were prisoners of war and their African brothers sold them to us instead of killing them. It was more profitable for their African brothers to sell them rather than kill them. Hey, so maybe the white man would have been better killing them like their African brothers were going to do?
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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by KhaliL »

debunker wrote:If you are still ARGUING that according to the Quran, Muhammed was NOT perfect and God did not forgive his sins.. then there's really no point for me to waste my time and respond to any of your arguments.

Regards.
All prophets are sinless according to Quran because they did NOT disobey their god. Period;

We criticize the concept of sin = evil in Islam. Your god is not a moral agent. He did NOT find any problem in banditry and man-slaughter. He did NOT find any problem with Sex-Slavery.

One who commits mass murder with the blessings of a god.. we will call both this man and his god Immoral savages.

Essence: Perfect means Perfect according to a savage deity. I thought my disclaimer in the previous post clarified it.


KF
Last edited by KhaliL on Mon May 04, 2009 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

Post by debunker »

this is the problem with history... everyone's got their own version to tell... so the blacks are lying?
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