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Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:00 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
fudgy wrote:LOL. see how is silent on "spouses. " Asad simply slam dunked those who thinks its ok to have sex with slaves. Its evident that such notions are nothing but man made crap.


fudgy, Asad is a known liar who purposefully re-translated the Quran in a manner to cover all of the errors. Why do you think he is so wildly different than all other translators? Figure it out. You're being lied to so that the integrity of the Quran remains preserved. That's all that's going on. And besides, spouse is the same thing as wife anyway, so I don't even know what your point is anyway. It's stupid.

Asad is doing the same thing that Muslims have been doing for hundreds of years. They change the meaning of the Quran to suit the times. The Quran isn't perfect, Muslims MAKE it so. Just look at the verses of the sun orbiting. At first, Muslims would tell you that it's obviously pointing to the sun orbiting around the earth. Then when Copernicus comes along and tells us the earth orbits the sun, then suddenly Muslims change their story. Now those verse are merely figurative (a common Muslim trick). Then, recent science comes along and tells us that the sun actually does orbit, but it orbits a galaxy. Then, Muslims change their tune again. Now, the verses are suddenly NOT figurative but are literal again, except this time, it's talking about an orbit around the galaxy, even though the Quran never even mentions any concept at all like a galaxy, and it mentions the earth all over the place. But nope. No no no, it's not talking about an orbit around the earth just like everybody thought back then. No no no, it's talking about an orbit around the galaxy. :lol: Look at how disgraceful this is. But this is exactly the kind of things Muslims have been doing for hundreds of years, and they don't feel the least bit ashamed at pulling these stunts. It's absolutely amazing. When it comes to religious discussion, I've never seen a group of people more willing to invent, or even outright lie if necessary, even to themselves, in order to justify their religion. It's absolutely disgraceful.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:10 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
fudgy, I have a really simple question for you. Do you think all of these women who were right hand possessions consented to having sex with these fighters after they killed their husbands? Do you honestly believe that? If you don't, which you shouldn't, then this is clearly rape, whether they were married via forced marriage or not even married. Rape is forced sex, and I find it incredibly difficult to imagine that these women consented to sex with the same marauders who killed their husbands. Why can't you see this simple fact? Has Islam blinded you that much? Muhammad had to keep his fighters happy, and allowing them to do have sex with their captives was one way of doing that. It's pretty simple to see.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:28 pm
by sum
AhmedBahgat, fudgy, MastaBlaster and parvez mushtaq have all ignored the current Islamic ruling that Islam permits forced sex with one`s wife. They have just gone into denial mode because it puts Islam in an unacceptable light and they are also in a very difficult position because they have to say whether they agree with the ruling or not. Permitting forced sex goes against all conscience and norms of morality yet Islam permits it. As "Joe soap" muslims, they have no say whatsoever regarding laws in Islamic lands.

Do you think that it is morally acceptable to have forced sex with one`s wife?

Come on, muslims, and tell us if you agree or disagree with the Islamic ruling that permits forced sex with one`s wife.

sum

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:33 pm
by AhmedBahgat
sum wrote:AhmedBahgat, fudgy, MastaBlaster and parvez mushtaq have all ignored the current Islamic ruling that Islam permits forced sex with one`s wife. They have just gone into denial mode because it puts Islam in an unacceptable light and they are also in a very difficult position because they have to say whether they agree with the ruling or not. Permitting forced sex goes against all conscience and norms of morality yet Islam permits it. As "Joe soap" muslims, they have no say whatsoever regarding laws in Islamic lands.

Do you think that it is morally acceptable to have forced sex with one`s wife?

Come on, muslims, and tell us if you agree or disagree with the Islamic ruling that permits forced sex with one`s wife.

sum



Have I not told u already that it cannot be moral nor it is a Quran teaching, are you that deaf, mister bum?

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:36 pm
by yeezevee
Muhammad bin Lyin
fudgy, Asad is a known liar who purposefully re-translated the Quran in a manner to cover all of the errors.

I am NOT very certain which Asad you guys are talking and I am assuming that you guys are talking about this Asad who wrote some sort of translation of Q'uran
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Just to let the leaders know about Mr. Muhammad Asad..

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Muhammad Asad's Original name was Leopold Weiss born in 1900 and Died February 20, 1992(in Spain) was a descendant of a long line of rabbis. He converted to Islam and later served as one of the first Pakistani ambassadors to the United Nations. In Jerusalem, Weiss began to confront Zionist leaders with the Arab question at every turn. He raised it both with Menahem Ussishkin (1863-1941) and Chaim Weizmann (1874-1952), and soon gained a reputation as a sympathizer of the Arab cause. Weiss also credited a new friend with assisting him greatly in Jerusalem: the Dutch poet and journalist Jacob Israël de Haan (1881-1924).

Apparently in September 1926, he was reading ONE VERSE of Q'uran "You are obsessed by greed for more and more / Until you go down to your graves." All his doubt that the Qur'an was a God-inspired book vanished, wrote Weiss. Soo n He went to the leader of the Berlin Islamic Society, declared his adherence to Islam, and took the name Muhammad Asad.

During WWII he was interned there by the British as an enemy alien. His parents meanwhile, were murdered by the Nazis in the Holocaust. Because of his out-spoken support for the Pakistan Movement, after Independence and the Partition of 1947, Asad was appointed Pakistani ambassador to the United Nations, as well as working with the Pakistani Foreign Ministry from 1949 till the early 1950s.(???) He is credited with drafting the Objectives Resolution, which became the Preamble to the Constitution of Pakistan.(??) Towards the end of his life, disturbed by the growing fanaticism of his fellow Muslims, he moved to Spain and lived there with his second wife, the Muslim convert Paola Hameeda Asad, until his death in 1992. He was buried in the muslim cemetery of Granada.( I doubt those backgroud highlighted words..yeezevee)


Leopold Weiss aka Muhammad Asad in India
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Leopold Weiss aka Muhammad Asad at the end of his life in Spain.
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the worst thing is Few in the Muslim world took notice of Mr. Asad's passing. Unlike so many other Western converts to Islam, Asad chose also to live in Muslim societies, and worked to give Islam direction. But by advocating this reform, Asad remained a foreign body in contemporary Islam, a transplant rejected time and again by his hosts. Saudi Arabia declined to keep him as a journalist; Pakistan, which he served as an official and diplomat, also broke with him; and the self-appointed guardians of Muslim orthodoxy shunned him as a Qur'an translator and commentator

excerpted from wiki and other links..
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/WeissAsad.htm

Well.. Neither that guy Leopold Weiss aka Muhammad Asad was an expert of Arabic Language nor he read anything about History of Mr. Muhammad's Islam. He is just an EMOTIONAL CHARACTER from west who converted to Islam based upon emotions.. I have his translation .. it is just silly ..

yeezevee

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:14 pm
by Muhammad bin Lyin
Let's take a look at one of Asad's more blatant lie attempts.

Transliteration Walaqad zayyanna alssamaa alddunya bimasabeeha wajaAAalnaha rujooman lilshshayateeni waaAAtadna lahum AAathaba alssaAAeeri
Literal And We had decorated/beautified, the sky/space (of) the present world with lights/stars , and We made it meteorites/shooting stars for the devils, and We prepared/made ready for them the/blazing/inflamed (inferno) torture.

Yusuf Ali
And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

Pickthal
And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.

Arberry
And We adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and made them things to stone Satans; and We have prepared for them the chastisement of the Blaze.

Shakir
And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.

Sarwar
We have decked the lowest heavens with torches. With these torches We have stoned the devils and We have prepared for them the torment of hell.

Khalifa
We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and guarded its borders with projectiles against the devils; we prepared for them a retribution in Hell.

Hilali/Khan
And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the Shayatin (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire.

H/K/Saheeh
And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze.

Malik
We have decorated the heaven of this world with lamps and We made them as missiles for pelting the Satans and thus prepared for them the scourge of flames.[5]


Free Minds
And We have adorned this universe with lamps, and We made it with projectiles against the devils; and We prepared for them the retribution of the blazing Fire.

Qaribullah
We have adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and We made them a stoning for the satans, We have prepared the punishment of the Blaze for them.

George Sale
Moreover We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps, and have appointed them to be darted at the devils, for whom We have prepared the torment of burning fire:

JM Rodwell
Moreover we have decked the lowest heaven with lights, and have placed them there to be hurled at the Satans, for whom we have prepared the torment of the flaming fire.

Asad
And, indeed, We have adorned the skies nearest to the earth with lights, 4 and have made them the object of futile guesses for the evil ones [from among men]: 5 and for them have We readied suffering through a blazing flame -


So everybody else says flames that are thrown, hurled, fired at.....but Asad suddenly takes that and turns it into "futile guesses". How are fired flames suddenly translated as "futile guesses"? What the hell is that? What a blatant lie and attempt to hide the embarrassing fact that this verse is talking about meteors chasing the jinn away from the lower heavens. This is the kind of liar this guy is. Just look at all of the added brackets in his translations. It's a downright crime, but Muslims don't care, as long as he tells them what they need to hear.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:22 pm
by Cassie
parvez mushtaq wrote:
Cassie wrote:The Muslim god must be barbaric to permit slavery.

dear cassie

why don't you ask yourself a simple questions

1.WHY slavery is allowed
2.WITH WHOM sex is allowed
3.WHAT is the effect of slavery in Islam on society

before answering this questions ,pl bear in mind that , SLAVERY as well as SLAVERY TRADE still present even today


with regards

Mushtaq

So what if slavery still exists today - practised by criminals and Muslims apparently. It's still barbaric. That's why the civilized world, note the word "civilized", banned it.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:30 pm
by Cassie
fudgy wrote:
Quran 8:67 Shakir wrote:It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

M Asad 8:67 wrote:IT DOES NOT behove a prophet to keep captives unless he has battled strenuously on earth. You may desire the fleeting gains of this world - but God desires [for you the good of] the life to come: and God is almighty, wise.

Asad commentary on 8:67:
as an aftermath of a war in a just cause. As almost always in the Qur'an, an injunction
addressed to the Prophet is, by implication, binding on his followers as well. Consequently, the
above verse lays down that no person may be taken, or for any time retained, in captivity unless
he was taken prisoner in a jihad - that is, a holy war in defence of the Faith or of freedom
(regarding which see surah 2, note 167) - and that, therefore, the acquisition of a slave by
"peaceful" means, and the keeping of a slave thus acquired, is entirely prohibited: which, to
all practical purposes, amounts to a prohitition of slavery as a "social institution"
. But even
with regard to captives taken in war, the Qur'an ordains (in 47:4) that they should be freed
after the war is over.

What a liar. 47-4 also tells you to behead every disbeliever until the war is over. How barbaric. Muslims have the choice of freeing or ransoming captives. Is that better morals than the pagans? No. They were better than the Muslims. The fact that Muslims took slaves for 14 centuries - even establishing slaving colonies like Zanzibar in order to rape Africa of slaves proves Asad a liar. The fact that the Muslims raided Europe and the Caucasus talking women and children into slavery proves Asad a liar. The fact that Muhammad beheaded Asad's own people and enslaves women and children of Asad's ethnicity proves him a traitorous liar. He was a traitor to the Jews - who are the enemies of the Muslims.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:47 pm
by debunker
So what if slavery still exists today - practised by criminals and Muslims apparently. It's still barbaric. That's why the civilized world, note the word "civilized", banned it.


Indeed, the Americans, for example, were criminal savages who kidnapped people from Africa and made them their slaves. Only 150 years ago, they became somewhat civilized and freed them... it took them many more decades to treat them as equals (although a lot of white trash still don't see them as equals).

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:50 pm
by Cassie
debunker wrote:
So what if slavery still exists today - practised by criminals and Muslims apparently. It's still barbaric. That's why the civilized world, note the word "civilized", banned it.


Indeed, the Americans, for example, were criminal savages who kidnapped people from Africa and made them their slaves. Only 150 years ago, they became somewhat civilized and freed them... it took them many more decades to treat them as equals (although a lot of white trash still don't see them as equals).

We emancipated slaves more than a hundred earlier than the Muslims apparently. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Further, it is we, the Westerners, who forced emacipation onto you, the Muslims. If not for us, you would still be owning slaves.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:54 pm
by debunker
More than a hundred earlier than the Muslims apparently. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


That red underlined statement is for you dear Cassie.

Further, it is we, the Westerners, who forced emacipation onto you, the Muslims. If not for us, you would still be owning slaves.


Of course, I've been remiss, I had to thank you for teaching us some civility.... keep trying we're getting there... one baby step at a time.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:56 pm
by Cassie
debunker wrote:
More than a hundred earlier than the Muslims apparently. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


That red underlined statement is for you dear Cassie.

Why should it be for me, when I belong to the civilization that freed the slaves? I am proud to be related to William Wilberforce, who began the worldwide emancipation of slaves.

debunker wrote:
Further, it is we, the Westerners, who forced emacipation onto you, the Muslims. If not for us, you would still be owning slaves.


Of course, I've been remiss, I had to thank you for teaching us some civility.... keep trying we're getting there... one baby step at a time.

I am only telling the truth. No Muslim country had an endogenous emancipation program. Ever. All you had are Zanzibar and the Mamluks and trans-Sahara slave trade.

Your prophet enslaved women and children. I suppose you are proud of that, aren't you?

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:58 pm
by debunker
I am proud to be related to William Wilberforce, who began the worldwide emancipation of slaves.


By related, you mean your his grandchild? or simply you're British like him? Anyway, America is the grandchild of Britain.

Your prophet enslaved women and children. I suppose you are proud of that, aren't you?


Again, mixing up the Quran with the Bible, are you?

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:01 pm
by Cassie
debunker wrote:
I am proud to be related to William Wilberforce, who began the worldwide emancipation of slaves.


By related, you mean your his grandchild? or simply you're British like him? Anyway, the Americans was a British colony.

William Wilberforce lived more then 200 years ago.

Americans were enslavers, but not more so than the Muslims. Besides, they realized the error of their ways and began emancipating their slaves. They freed slaves more than a hundred years before the Muslims.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:03 pm
by Cassie
debunker wrote:
Your prophet enslaved women and children. I suppose you are proud of that, aren't you?


Again, mixing up the Quran with the Bible, are you?

The fact that you deny the hadiths doesn't make your prophet a saint. He murdered Jews and enslaved their women and children. This behavior was emulated by his followers for 14 centuries until we, the civilized world, put a stop to Muslim depravity.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:03 pm
by debunker
Americans were enslavers, but not more so than the Muslims. Besides, they realized the error of their ways and began emancipating their slaves.


realized their error? It took a violent war to convince Southern trash to let go of their slaves.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:05 pm
by Cassie
debunker wrote:
Americans were enslavers, but not more so than the Muslims. Besides, they realized the error of their ways and began emancipating their slaves.


realized their error? It took a violent war to convince Southern trash to let go of their slaves.

So? At least some of us possess morals superior to your god who permitted and encouraged slavery. Abe Lincoln was a superior person than your prophet and your god. He, at least, recognized the immorality of enslaving others. You should really be ashamed of your prophet and your god.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:07 pm
by debunker
The fact that you deny the hadiths doesn't make your prophet a saint. He murdered Jews and enslaved their women and children. This behavior was emulated by his followers for 14 centuries until we, the civilized world, put a stop to Muslim depravity.


Indeed, like Umar, the second Caliph who allowed the Jews to live in Jerusalem after being banned for centuries by the Romans/Benzyntines.
http://www.mideastweb.org/covenantofomar.htm

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:09 pm
by debunker
So? At least some of us possess morals superior to your god who permitted and encouraged slavery.


That's not true. He encouraged their emancipation.

Re: Does Quran Sanction Rape?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:10 pm
by Cassie
debunker wrote:
The fact that you deny the hadiths doesn't make your prophet a saint. He murdered Jews and enslaved their women and children. This behavior was emulated by his followers for 14 centuries until we, the civilized world, put a stop to Muslim depravity.


Indeed, like Umar, the second Caliph who allowed the Jews to live in Jerusalem after being banned for centuries by the Romans/Benzyntines.
http://www.mideastweb.org/covenantofomar.htm

So that absolves Muhammad of genocide and enslavement of women and children? Get real.