Does Quran Sanction Rape?

[AhmedBahgat]

drunk yekee

can you tell the crowd, how did you know that ten years ago I was following your fuked upi and man made sharia?

Because.. because

1). 10 years ago, you were f.cked up with NO fault of yours. Some one else did it to you...lol., and.. and you were a Egyptian muffin head with FULL of Sand in brain., you still have it. be THANKFUL to FFI, it changed you for ever...

Hmm, what an idiot, you are yekee, so instead of providing some concrete evidences, you are coming with your crap wishful thinking, dismiss yourself, dumb

2). Those who read Q'uran ALONE and use Q'URAN ALONE in life will not write the way you write and will not act the way you act..

yeezevee

Of course, I don't talk like them, because i have never been one of them, nor one of any cult, again, dismiss yourself, dumb, but this time however, keep it itchy

[yeezevee]

Of course, I don't talk like them, because i have never been one of them, nor one of any cult, again, dismiss yourself, dumb, but this time however, keep it itchy

yaa..yadi,... yadi.. SHUDDUP ... and go join this forum http://free-minds.org/forum/

my good friend Edip Yuksel is there., I going to catch him.. off course not as yeezevee...lol..
Go and beat him up..

yeezeve

[AhmedBahgat]

Of course, I don't talk like them, because i have never been one of them, nor one of any cult, again, dismiss yourself, dumb, but this time however, keep it itchy

yaa..yadi,... yadi.. SHUDDUP ... and go join this forum http://free-minds.org/forum/

my good friend Edip Yuksel is there., I going to catch him.. off course not as yeezevee...lol..
Go and beat him up..

yeezeve

Idiot, I slan dunked that whole confused site, they are nothing but a new cult emerged from rashad Khalifah cult, same as Edip's cult, I have slam dunked Edip on my forum, and he was coward enough to run away

yeh go and join them, it is a good ground for kafir gatherers

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Friday May 1
Sum aka Bum
Muhammad bin Lyin aka I am very Ugly

Has been emptied from Fudgy's recycle bin. These low excuses for the human intellect simply has no place in Fudgy's bin.

Fudgy's fudgy backside bin??

[fudgy]

Salam,
The following is intended for the silent Muslim audience. I am aware that there are few active Muslim members on the site currently.

There has been some confusion regarding Muslim men allowed to have sex with their slaves. Many commentators agree that this is true and has its basis in the Hadith. However, just because a opinion is popular does not make it a correct one! Fornication is fornication and being unfaithful is being unfaithful irrespective of doing it with a free women or doing it with a slave.

Let us take a look at the story of a Prophet who has been sold into slavery.

And he of Egypt who purchased him said unto his wife: Receive him honourably. Perchance he may prove useful to us or we may adopt him as a son. Thus we established Joseph in the land that We might teach him the interpretation of events. And Allah was predominant in His career, but most of mankind know not. Quran 12:21

And she, in whose house he was, asked of him an evil act. She bolted the doors and said: Come! He said: I seek refuge in Allah! Lo! he is my lord, who hath treated me honourably. Lo! wrong-doers never prosper. Quran 12:23

And certainly she made for him, and he would have made for her, were it not that he had seen the manifest evidence of his Lord; thus (it was) that We might turn away from him evil and indecency, surely he was one of Our sincere servants. Quran 12:24

And they both hastened to the door, and she rent his shirt from behind and they met her husband at the door. She said: What is the punishment of him who intends evil to your wife except imprisonment or a painful chastisement? Quran 12:25

She said: This is he on whose account ye blamed me. I asked of him an evil act, but he proved continent, but if he do not my behest he verily shall be imprisoned, and verily shall be of those brought low. Quran 12:32

My Lord! the prison house is dearer to me than that to which they invite me; and if Thou turn not away their device from me, I will yearn towards them and become (one) of the ignorant.
Quran 12:33

In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a narrative which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe. Quran 12:111


The following verses are self explanatory. That is trying to sexually abuse one's slave is an evil act, and being unfaithful to one's spouse be it with a free person or with a slave is perhaps even worse. Allah prohibited a Prophet from doing such stuff, do you think he will allow us to do such stuff? Look how Prophet Joseph is saying that he would rather go to prison than to commit fornication and such indecency.

Quranic verses 4:3, 4:24, 4:25 all speaks of marrying your slaves. Let us demonstrate on 4:24:
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Sexual relations with slaves are allowed provided that you are married to them.

The only place where there might be a slight hint of Muslims allowed to have sex with their slaves is mentioned in 23:5-6.
Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy, Quran 23:6

The following verse is actually best translated by Jew/Agnostic who has later embraced Islam namely Muhammad Asad. Now, I do not usually bring any commentators or hadith to prove my point. It is evident that these verses never talks about allowing sex outside of marriage even with slaves; such notions are contradictory to the basics of Islam.

[not giving way to their desires] with any but their spouses - that is, those whom they rightfully possess [through wedlock]
And here is his commentary:

[Lit., “or those whom their right hands possess” (aw ma malakat aymanuhum). Many of the commentators assume unquestioningly that this relates to female slaves, and that the particle aw (“or”) denotes a permissible alternative. This interpretation is, in my opinion, inadmissible inasmuch as it is based on the assumption that sexual intercourse with ones female slave is permitted without marriage: an assumption, which is contradicted by the Quran itself (see 4: 3, 24, 25 and 24: 32, with the corresponding notes). Nor is this the only objection to the above-mentioned interpretation. Since the Quran applies the term ‘‘believers” to men and women alike, and since the term azwaj (“spouses”), too, denotes both the male and the female partners in marriage, there is no reason for attributing to the phrase ma malakat aymanuhum the meaning of “their female slaves’’; and since, on the other hand, it is out of the question that female and male slaves could have been referred to here it is obvious that this phrase does not relate to slaves at all, but has the same meaning as in 4: 24 - namely, “those whom they rightfully possess through wedlock (see note on 4: 24) - with the significant difference that in the present context this expression relates to both husbands and wives, who “rightfully possess” one another by virtue of marriage. On the basis of this interpretation, the particle aw which precedes this clause does not denote an alternative (“or”) but is, rather, in the nature of an explanatory amplification, more or less analogous to the phrase “in other words” or “that is”, thus giving to the whole sentence the meaning, “save with their spouses - that is, those whom they rightfully possess [through wedlock]”, etc. (Cf. a similar construction 25: 62 - ‘‘for him who has the will to take thought -that is [lit., “or”], has the will to be grateful”.)]

Asad explanation is far more superior to the one that I could have given you. Indeed, why did most of the translators translated the term "spouses" to "wives"?

Let us look at another verses 24:32-33:
And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),
Read these verses carefully do you see Allah telling us that if we cannot marry we should remain chaste except those whom we posses through our right hand??? No! Does Allah say that if you cannot find a way to get married then go find yourself a slave?? No! As I have said such notions are contradictory to the basics of Islam.

In the end, sex with slaves are simply fabrications of such men who sought to use religion as a means to spread their personal desires. Sexually abusing one's slave is an evil act which relates to nothing but immodestly and indecency!

Regards,
Nabil

[yeezevee]

Idiot, I slan dunked that whole confused site, they are nothing but a new cult emerged from rashad Khalifah cult, same as Edip's cult, I have slam dunked Edip on my forum, and he was coward enough to run away

yeh go and join them, it is a good ground for kafir gatherers

I guess it is not worth of my time to spend in responding to you dear A_B... continue your own way., I know you do have work to do

yeezevee

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

This whole thing was about letting his soldiers get laid with their booty

[yeezevee]

This whole thing was about letting his soldiers get laid with their booty

There is another very important addition to Mr. Muhammad's way of encouraging the brutes that followed him..

Sex with women folk whose husbands were killed by these Brutes.. = the loot they get women folk as slaves to work for them .. And more importantly such acts will encourage these rogues to go for next war. The process continues until they get kille. There also they die for Allah , again they will go to jannah heaven to have more Sex and Honey rivers to Swim

It is the WORST WAY OF exploitation in the name of God., That is what Mr. Muhammad did and that is what other leaders that came out of Islam after him did.. They are still doing it. . No other Religious book has such sh!t IN THEM..

yeezevee

[piscohot]

04.075
YUSUFALI: And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

What a pathetic attempt at trying to explain RHP.

I am sure the jewish women were all crying out to Muhammad: 'Rescue us! Rescue us from this town'

So dear xpo , RHP are not good people , they are the pests of the society

So the only solution to RHP, the pests of society, is to bonk them whenever you want?

[parvez mushtaq]

Spoiler! :

Salam,
The following is intended for the silent Muslim audience. I am aware that there are few active Muslim members on the site currently.

There has been some confusion regarding Muslim men allowed to have sex with their slaves. Many commentators agree that this is true and has its basis in the Hadith. However, just because a opinion is popular does not make it a correct one! Fornication is fornication and being unfaithful is being unfaithful irrespective of doing it with a free women or doing it with a slave.

Let us take a look at the story of a Prophet who has been sold into slavery.

And he of Egypt who purchased him said unto his wife: Receive him honourably. Perchance he may prove useful to us or we may adopt him as a son. Thus we established Joseph in the land that We might teach him the interpretation of events. And Allah was predominant in His career, but most of mankind know not. Quran 12:21

And she, in whose house he was, asked of him an evil act. She bolted the doors and said: Come! He said: I seek refuge in Allah! Lo! he is my lord, who hath treated me honourably. Lo! wrong-doers never prosper. Quran 12:23

And certainly she made for him, and he would have made for her, were it not that he had seen the manifest evidence of his Lord; thus (it was) that We might turn away from him evil and indecency, surely he was one of Our sincere servants. Quran 12:24

And they both hastened to the door, and she rent his shirt from behind and they met her husband at the door. She said: What is the punishment of him who intends evil to your wife except imprisonment or a painful chastisement? Quran 12:25

She said: This is he on whose account ye blamed me. I asked of him an evil act, but he proved continent, but if he do not my behest he verily shall be imprisoned, and verily shall be of those brought low. Quran 12:32

My Lord! the prison house is dearer to me than that to which they invite me; and if Thou turn not away their device from me, I will yearn towards them and become (one) of the ignorant.
Quran 12:33

In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a narrative which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe. Quran 12:111


The following verses are self explanatory. That is trying to sexually abuse one's slave is an evil act, and being unfaithful to one's spouse be it with a free person or with a slave is perhaps even worse. Allah prohibited a Prophet from doing such stuff, do you think he will allow us to do such stuff? Look how Prophet Joseph is saying that he would rather go to prison than to commit fornication and such indecency.

Quranic verses 4:3, 4:24, 4:25 all speaks of marrying your slaves. Let us demonstrate on 4:24:
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Sexual relations with slaves are allowed provided that you are married to them.

The only place where there might be a slight hint of Muslims allowed to have sex with their slaves is mentioned in 23:5-6.
Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy, Quran 23:6

The following verse is actually best translated by Jew/Agnostic who has later embraced Islam namely Muhammad Asad. Now, I do not usually bring any commentators or hadith to prove my point. It is evident that these verses never talks about allowing sex outside of marriage even with slaves; such notions are contradictory to the basics of Islam.

[not giving way to their desires] with any but their spouses - that is, those whom they rightfully possess [through wedlock]
And here is his commentary:

[Lit., “or those whom their right hands possess” (aw ma malakat aymanuhum). Many of the commentators assume unquestioningly that this relates to female slaves, and that the particle aw (“or”) denotes a permissible alternative. This interpretation is, in my opinion, inadmissible inasmuch as it is based on the assumption that sexual intercourse with ones female slave is permitted without marriage: an assumption, which is contradicted by the Quran itself (see 4: 3, 24, 25 and 24: 32, with the corresponding notes). Nor is this the only objection to the above-mentioned interpretation. Since the Quran applies the term ‘‘believers” to men and women alike, and since the term azwaj (“spouses”), too, denotes both the male and the female partners in marriage, there is no reason for attributing to the phrase ma malakat aymanuhum the meaning of “their female slaves’’; and since, on the other hand, it is out of the question that female and male slaves could have been referred to here it is obvious that this phrase does not relate to slaves at all, but has the same meaning as in 4: 24 - namely, “those whom they rightfully possess through wedlock (see note on 4: 24) - with the significant difference that in the present context this expression relates to both husbands and wives, who “rightfully possess” one another by virtue of marriage. On the basis of this interpretation, the particle aw which precedes this clause does not denote an alternative (“or”) but is, rather, in the nature of an explanatory amplification, more or less analogous to the phrase “in other words” or “that is”, thus giving to the whole sentence the meaning, “save with their spouses - that is, those whom they rightfully possess [through wedlock]”, etc. (Cf. a similar construction 25: 62 - ‘‘for him who has the will to take thought -that is [lit., “or”], has the will to be grateful”.)]

Asad explanation is far more superior to the one that I could have given you. Indeed, why did most of the translators translated the term "spouses" to "wives"?

Let us look at another verses 24:32-33:
And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),
Read these verses carefully do you see Allah telling us that if we cannot marry we should remain chaste except those whom we posses through our right hand??? No! Does Allah say that if you cannot find a way to get married then go find yourself a slave?? No! As I have said such notions are contradictory to the basics of Islam.

In the end, sex with slaves are simply fabrications of such men who sought to use religion as a means to spread their personal desires. Sexually abusing one's slave is an evil act which relates to nothing but immodestly and indecency!

Regards,
Nabil

salams brother nabil
i will agree with this fully if you can explain me about this verse
024.058
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

these verse makes very clear that RHP were part of the house hold and they were not wife
if RHP are wifes then i dont find a logic why my wife should not enter my bedroom during night or in the times where i put off my clothes

pl think

with regards

Mushtaq

[parvez mushtaq]

Hello parvez mushtaq

Your quote -
All the Islamic wars that were fought by our prophet or his companions was against oppressions and oppressors

Absolute rubbish and you know it. Muhammad was an out and out aggressor. He was an invader of other lands and after his death the caliphs followed his example.

Do you think that it is acceptable for a man to have forced sex with his wife?

sum

dear sum

yes , he invaded , but where are his palaces he lived
where are the palaces of his companions
he was never an aggressor , but if had he not invaded ,then there might not be a religion called Islam
just check the history of those days
you will find the difference between his invasions and the invasions made by Romans and Persians
war on religion was never started by our prophet ,it was right there much before him
with regards


Mushtaq

[fudgy]

salams brother nabil
i will agree with this fully if you can explain me about this verse
024.058
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

these verse makes very clear that RHP were part of the house hold and they were not wife
if RHP are wifes then i dont find a logic why my wife should not enter my bedroom during night or in the times where i put off my clothes

pl think

with regards

Mushtaq

Walaikum Salam Parvez,
Yes, if you are not married to your RHP then of course they are not your wives. See if sex with RHP was really allowed then I don't see the reason for RHP to seek permission when you are in state of undress! Your verse further clarifies my point that sex with RHP without wedlock is not allowed. See its telling the RHP to seek your permission when you are undress! Sex outside of wedlock is simply fornication and being unfaithful to your wives. Such notions are completely against the basic principles of Quran. Also, polygamy is allowed under very extreme condition see verse 4:3 but that's another issue.

[sum]

Hello AhmedBahgat

Further to my initial commrnts on Hedaya I will add the following.

Hedaya is the Islamic law book used by the barristers of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, England, Ireland....

Its stipulations are codified Islamic laws. It is the law manual of Hanafi sect of Islam. Hanafi sect dominates India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Afghanistan. Ask any lawyer/imam and he will tell you the authenticity of Hedaya.

In short, Hedaya is the Islamic law book used in the court procedures.

Here is the complete reference -

Hamilton, Charles. Hedaya. Translated in English in 1870 from the Persian version. Reprinted by Kitab Bhavan, 1784 Kalan Mahal, Daraya Ganj, New Delhi, 1994.

You, fudgy, MastaBlaster and parvez mushtaq can argue till you are blue in the face but permission to have forced sex with one`s wife is very much part of present day Islam. The scholars, clerics and law makers have considered all the Islamic evidence and concluded that forced sex is true Islam.

None of you have told us whether you think that forced sex is unacceptable in all circumstances. Is it unacceptable?

sum

[sum]

Hello parvez mushtaq

Your quote -
he was never an aggressor , but if had he not invaded ,then there might not be a religion called Islam

He WAS the aggressor. Are you not familiar with the letters that he sent to other countries inviting them to embrace Islam, otherwise there would be war? Are you not aware of the countries that he invaded - ie he was an aggressor? You actually confirm that he was the aggressor when you say that he invaded other countries.

What a blessing it would have been for all humanity if Islam had never existed. This should be discussed in another thread.

sum

[fudgy]

Sum, I will assume that you have some brain. Can't you find the answer to your question from our posts? But since you are still in your diapers I will lay this out for you: NO! I would never want to force my wife into me, however I would want her to be all over me lol. Beside why won't your wife want to have sex with you unless something is really wrong. Happy now?

[sum]

Hello fudgy

Your quote -
Can't you find the answer to your question from our posts?

I do not like to make assumptions. I much prefer clear and umbiguous answers to questions. You have made it clear that you would not agree with forced sex with your wife.

Would you please take it one step further and tell us if forced sex with any person is always unacceptable?

sum

[sum]

Hello parvez mushtaq

You did not tell us if you think that forced sex with anybody is always unacceptable. Will you please tell us?

sum

[AhmedBahgat]

Hello AhmedBahgat

Further to my initial commrnts on Hedaya I will add the following.

Hedaya is the Islamic law book used by the barristers of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, England, Ireland....

Its stipulations are codified Islamic laws. It is the law manual of Hanafi sect of Islam. Hanafi sect dominates India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Afghanistan. Ask any lawyer/imam and he will tell you the authenticity of Hedaya.

In short, Hedaya is the Islamic law book used in the court procedures.

Here is the complete reference -

Hamilton, Charles. Hedaya. Translated in English in 1870 from the Persian version. Reprinted by Kitab Bhavan, 1784 Kalan Mahal, Daraya Ganj, New Delhi, 1994.

You, fudgy, MastaBlaster and parvez mushtaq can argue till you are blue in the face but permission to have forced sex with one`s wife is very much part of present day Islam. The scholars, clerics and law makers have considered all the Islamic evidence and concluded that forced sex is true Islam.

None of you have told us whether you think that forced sex is unacceptable in all circumstances. Is it unacceptable?

sum

Never head of such crap

[sum]

Hello AhmedBahgat

While you are investigating what I presented to you, can tell us if you regard forced sex with anybody as always unacceptable?

sum

[Rebel]

Sum, I will assume that you have some brain. Can't you find the answer to your question from our posts? But since you are still in your diapers I will lay this out for you: NO! I would never want to force my wife into me, however I would want her to be all over me lol. Beside why won't your wife want to have sex with you unless something is really wrong. Happy now?

Oh you mean like..I don't know, If you've killed her father, brother and husband recently ?

“Safiyah was born in Medinah. She belonged to the Jewish tribe of Banu 'I-Nadir. When this tribe was expelled from Medinah in the year 4 A.H, Huyaiy was one of those who settled in the fertile colony of Khaibar together with Kinana ibn al-Rabi' to whom Safiyah was married a little before the Muslims attacked Khaibar. She was then seventeen. She had formerly been the wife of Sallam ibn Mishkam, who divorced her. One mile from Khaibar. Here the Prophet married Safiyah. She was groomed and made-up for the Prophet by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik. They spent the night there. Abu Ayyub al-Ansari guarded the tent of the Prophet the whole night. When, in the early dawn, the Prophet saw Abu Ayyub strolling up and down, he asked him what he meant by this sentry-go; he replied: "I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, and till recently she was an unbeliever. I was really afraid for you on her account". The Prophet prayed for Abu Ayyub al-Ansari (Ibn Hisham, p. 766)