frankie wrote:Mughal:
I am still waiting for your reply.
Please answer the question:
Was Mohammed obeying Allah when he attacked, fought and killed non combatants to bring them to accept Islam?
manfred wrote:Mughal, please think before making a suggestion... what would be the point of a "guidance" that cannot be properly understood? The "moral code" Muslims follow really is very poor indeed. In fact, so bad, they would be better off without with such a guidance... telling people to kill others for things like their beliefs or things they may have done in the privacy of their bedroom really is MIS-guided.
If this Allah of yours had simply kept his mouth shut people certainly would have found better moral guidance through their own efforts in thinking.
pr126 wrote:Mughal wrote:Dear pr126, some ignorant people try to prove this is what deen of islam is but it is not. This is what most muslims say what deen of islam is but it is not and those who say so are ignorant people. Why should we listen to ignorant people and ignore those who talk sense?
Most Muslims amount to 1.5 billion, and most non-Muslims too, who read the Islamic scriptures and understood it as is written, are then ignorant people.
And that is because NONE of them really understand the message of the alleged words of Allah.
Sad, because hundreds of millions have been butchered, enslaved, raped, and plundered in the last 1400 years because of this misunderstanding, and the corpses are still piling up and will do in the foreseeable future.
The blame is entirely with Allah, if indeed this is his work, which I strongly doubt.
Dear manfred, have you or anyone else you know has found any better guidance than the one I see in the quran? If yes, please share.
regards and all the best.
Dear pr126, when did you make any real effort to undertake proper study of the quran? If you did please share what you found out and how did you go about studying the quran. I have been studying the quran and I am sharing hopw I went about it and what are the problems that I came across which I had to overcome. I am sharing the result of my study of the quran. I have not come across anyone who has studied the quran as I have other than a few muslim scholars who have passed away. Knowledge speaks for itself my friend.
have you or anyone else you know has found any better guidance than the one I see in the quran?
sum wrote:Hello Mughal
Your reply to my post does not make sense. If Muhammad did the best that he could but made some mistakes why did Allah not point this out in the Koran so that Muhammad and the muslims would not make the same mistake again?
The only mild rebuke that Allah made that I am aware of is to tell Muhammad that he should continue his lustful pursuit of his adopted son`s wife. The Koran claims that Muhammad should follow the advice of Allah and not the disapproval of the people in lusting after his adopted son`s wife. Where are the other criticisms of Muhammad when he erred?
If the Koran has no more criticisms then Muhammad`s words and deeds will have met with Allah`s approval.
Do you really think that Muhammad did not fully understand the words of Allah and follow them out with Allah`s approval? Where is Allah`s criticism and advice on how to act as Allah wanted him to?
sum
The quran is book of guidance and it tells what will happen if one did what it says and what will happen if one did not and tells stories of past generations to show what happened to them and why and what will happen to current or coming generations if they will follow the quran or if they will not.
Mughal wrote:frankie wrote:Mughal:
I am still waiting for your reply.
Please answer the question:
Was Mohammed obeying Allah when he attacked, fought and killed non combatants to bring them to accept Islam?
Dear frankie, we were not present at the time to witness things ourselves and all we have is accounts by individual people and we also know what some people get up to so there are a lot of factors which need to be taken into account before anyone could truly accuse any messenger of God about doing things against guidance of God or for messing up humanity. When you understand this much you will also realise it is not the right to try to make sense of deen of islam. First thing we human beings need to do is to look for a clear way for understanding a message of God. It is very wrong to start with saying there is no God or there cannot be any revelation from God or word of God means or does not mean this or that etc etc. I have detailed all these main points in my posts here and there. Till people organise and prepare themselves for undertaking proper study of the scripture from God they can only talk about it but can never get anywhere near knowing what they ought to be knowing. So my advice for you is to undertake proper study of the quran and use my work as a helpful tool and you may end up doing better than me about knowing the quran and deen of islam otherwise you can carry on as you have been and see what you get out of it at the end of the day.
regards and all the best.
Sum wrote:Will you please answer what is asked and please do not mention the "deen" of Islam - it is becoming tiring reading about the "deen".
It's ok sum, she'll re-heat it, with butter, for three hours.sum wrote:Please ask Paula to do a home delivery for me but not if the rfood will be too cold when it reaches me.
sum
manfred wrote:Dear manfred, have you or anyone else you know has found any better guidance than the one I see in the quran? If yes, please share.
regards and all the best.
Are you serious? Of all the systems of ethics ever proposed Islam is by a very large margin the worst.
Please google "civilisation" and you find many examples of better guidance. Islam is the diametric opposite of the values we found and established in the West. It is anti-freedom, anti-equality and anti-human. It is oppressive and cruel, and worst of all it is self-serving: "rules" can be ignored to further the "cause" of Islam. It sanctions the beating of women, the killing of unbelievers or homosexuals, slavery, bodily mutilation as a punishment and much more. You have to be mad to suggest this is guiding anyone. It is turning people into the monstrous creatures who join ISIS.
But of course you know that which is why you have chosen not to live in a place where this "guidance" is implemented.
Mughal wrote:Dear pr126, when did you make any real effort to undertake proper study of the quran? If you did please share what you found out and how did you go about studying the quran. I have been studying the quran and I am sharing how I went about it and what are the problems that I came across which I had to overcome. I am sharing the result of my study of the quran. I have not come across anyone who has studied the quran as I have other than a few muslim scholars who have passed away. Knowledge speaks for itself my friend.
pr126 wrote:Out of the 1.5 billion Muslims how many have studied the Quran the way you did ? (provided that they can even read it).
How is your version agrees with sharia? If it does not - which must be the case, - can sharia be dumped?
Mughal wrote:have you or anyone else you know has found any better guidance than the one I see in the quran?
pr126 wrote:The way you see the Quran is not necessarily the same other Muslims see.
pr126 wrote:You are determined to save Islam from itself. I do not think for a moment that this will work. Or it is worth saving.
frankie wrote:Mughal: The hadiths quotes are given the classification as Sahih by your own people, which means that Muslims can emulate their prophets example with confidence, knowing that their scholars have done the work before them, classifying the reports of Mohamed's ways and example as "sound" and reliable.
frankie wrote:And so your answer does not make any sense to those who put their trust in these reports, and have done so for centuries.
frankie wrote:Do you think Allah would allow his scholars to be in error when reporting the ways and example of his "perfect example for mankind, "which in turn would make anyone who read these alleged erroneous reports and put them into action, disobey Allah?
frankie wrote:If Mohammed is given to be mankind's role model for all time, then the sahih hadiths quoted show Mohammed to be a very poor role model, as his actions prove him to be a tyrant, which then follows, the god that gave him his instructions to act this way must be a tyrannical god.
frankie wrote:No other prophet of the Bible God used violence to carry out God's instructions, they used word of mouth only, just as Jesus did.
Mohammed claimed to be a prophet in line with all previous prophets, but Mohammed did not use the same method as previous prophets to preach his message, he disobeyed the very God he claimed to represent, by using methods which would be harmful towards humanity, he used war as his opus operandi.
Any man calling himself a prophet of the Bible God must obey the commands of this God, but Mohammed disobeyed them, which means he worked for Satan who is in opposition to Yahweh,the Bible God,and Satan as the Bible tells us, is the author of lies and deception, who hates humanity and wants his entire destruction.
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