Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
Eagle
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by Eagle »

45:18 speaks of the prophet Muhammad having been chosen and put on the straight path as the noble individuals in previous nations, namely the Israelites, were chosen. Jesus was a prophet according to the NT, contrary to what you originally wanted, but a false messiah and false prophet according to the listed criteria of the OT, the very same criteria that admit without the shadow of a doubt, Muhammad as a prophet regardless of anybody's whims.

The discussion is going in astraight line, despite your attempts at taking it left and right it hasnt deviated and each angle you've tried, each source you provided were properly analyzed and refuted. You still cannot determine where that pilgrimage center of Arabia was long before the bogus dating of Mecca by your weak sources, you cant point to any inscriptions attesting to its existence, neither can you say which pilgrimage the prophet-king David was praising. You cannot provide proof that Mecca existed after 'antiquity', which per your definitions obviously entails some period before The last of God's prophets and his birth for you to make the argument that Mecca did not exist in antiquity. Actually, before that, why don't you provide some archaeological proof that the Jerusalem allegedly spoken of in Psalms84 and which the Isrealites refer to in the Torah, let alone the Temple, exists as it did? You cant and all you have left is a poor and lame attempt and discrediting the noble personality of God's prophet.

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manfred
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by manfred »

Eagle wrote:45:18 speaks of the prophet Muhammad having been chosen and put on the straight path as the noble individuals in previous nations, namely the Israelites, were chosen. Jesus was a prophet according to the NT, contrary to what you originally wanted, but a false messiah and false prophet according to the listed criteria of the OT, the very same criteria that admit without the shadow of a doubt, Muhammad as a prophet regardless of anybody's whims.
Well this is what it says:
Then We put thee on the (right) Way of Religion: so follow thou that (Way), and follow not the desires of those who know not.
It does not say who "thee" is, for a start. There is nothing about scripture, judgement or prophecy. More importantly, it does not mention Ishmaelites having been given scripture, judgement and prophecy, as you claimed earlier. In fact, it has nothing to offer on the question at all. So this is a complete red herring.

The rest of you post is an irrelevant ramble. None, of the issues you ask me to discuss have any bearing on the topic.

The Qur'an states that prophecy, judgement and scriptures was given to the Israelites. No mention of anyone else. That was Mo's later invention, out of necessity.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

Eagle
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by Eagle »

It addresses Muhammad, telling him just as another nation was vouchsafed revelation, he too is now chosen and put on the straight path, thus stressing thr continuation of the divine message regardless of anybody's prejudice and whims including those weak objections raised by you and your kind. And besides, verses that were revealed long before sura 45 speak of prophethood having been granted to Ismail and Muhammad. This ruins your repetitive and tired act of alleging that prophethood was extended to non israelites only after it and after Muhammad learned from Jews (in that Meccan sura during which jewish involvement in his life was totally insignificant) that prophethood was their only prerogative (which even if it was the case os still an irrelevant motivation to fabricate a sura since jews recognize the prophethood of non-jews). Your arguments continuously fail on so many level that its becoming comical

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manfred
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by manfred »

Eagle wrote:It addresses Muhammad, telling him just as another nation was vouchsafed revelation, he too is now chosen and put on the straight path, thus stressing thr continuation of the divine message regardless of anybody's prejudice and whims including those weak objections raised by you and your kind. And besides, verses that were revealed long before sura 45 speak of prophethood having been granted to Ismail and Muhammad. This ruins your repetitive and tired act of alleging that prophethood was extended to non israelites only after it and after Muhammad learned from Jews (in that Meccan sura during which jewish involvement in his life was totally insignificant) that prophethood was their only prerogative (which even if it was the case os still an irrelevant motivation to fabricate a sura since jews recognize the prophethood of non-jews). Your arguments continuously fail on so many level that its becoming comical
:lotpot:

a) Your Qur'an must be different from mine. Again:

45:18
Then We put thee on the (right) Way of Religion: so follow thou that (Way), and follow not the desires of those who know not.
Where does it say Mohammed? Ishmael? Ishmaelites? Prophet? Your assertions are simply not borne out by the text, as anyone can see clearly, and yet you go on about it. This has to be one of your most brazen attempts to make the Qur'an say what it does not.

b) Mohammed may well have made the claim to be a prophet as well as being an Ishmaelite before he concocted this little section. That is not the issue at all. It seems you simply refuse to understand. Then he writes down that prophethood was given to the Israelites, to ingratiate himself with the local Jews. They in turn then point out, if that is the case he could not possibly be a prophet. He has contradicted himself. Again. So, in order to save face and rescue himself from this shipwreck, Ishmael all of a sudden becomes a prophet.... another failed one, like all the others before Mohammed, no message, nothing. Only the cock and bull story about the Kaaba and Mecca, which has been solidly debunked.

c) Then you repeat the nonsense of Jews recognising non-Israelites as prophets. How many times do I need to answer that before you get it? A MINORITY of Talmudic rabbis extend the term prophet in an analogue sense to a few specific biblical characters who are not Jews. Jews do NOT recognise Mohammed, first and foremost, because he is not and Israelite, second because he is some 1000 years too late, and most importantly, because his message is at odds with all other previous messages.. The orthodox Jewish understanding of "prophet" is that these were messengers from the Israelites and to the Israelites during a specific period of history, ending about 400 BC. This is also largely the mainstream Christian position. Incidences of prophecy may or may have continued later, but there simply were no prophets in the strict sense after that.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

Eagle
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by Eagle »

Its the same Quran, but of course blinded by your base desire you cannot see the connection between the mention of prophethood to the Israelites 2 verses earlier, followed by the mention of Muhammad having been chosen to deliver the same truthful message, the implication being that divine revelation is continuous and knows no racial boundaries. Why dont you show the connection between the singular person mentionned in 45:18 (a verse beginning with thumma thus inevitably connected to the previous statement about the Israelites) and the verses preceding it. Also, Ishmael is explicitly stated to be a prophet among all others, long before the revelation of sura 45, such as in sura 6 as stated multiple times, thus ruining your story from yet another angle, besides the contextual one.

It is accepted within mainstream judaism that prophethood was extended to non-jews, contrary to your claim, and regardless of anybody's whims and racial prejudice, because the OT itself delineates what are the criteria that must be fulfilled for any claimant to prophethood ie speaking in the name of the same God and issuing truthful prophecies, and every single of those were fulfilled by Muhammad as well as other non Jews i have mentionned several times now, from both biblical and non biblical sources. Balaam was not an israelite and preached to the israelites, with his address to them still mentionned in daily Jewish prayers today, as referenced in an earlier post. Jonah was an israelite who preached to non israelites. Many jews, including the most learned among them, as related in both Quranic and non Quranic sources, accepted the prophethood of Muhammad and those that rejected him never did so based on your bogus and prejudiced racial reason, but because he, like Jesus and countless others as related in both the OT and NT, brought a message that wasnt to their liking.

Here since you like quoting wikipedia
Maimonides
Maimonides referred to Muhammad as a false prophet and an insane man. In his Epistle to Yemen he wrote "After [Jesus] arose the Madman who emulated his precursor [Jesus], since he paved the way for him. But he added the further objective of procuring rule and submission [talb al-mulk; pursuit of sovereignty] and he invented what is well known [Islam]."[1]
In his authoritative work of law the Mishneh Torah (Hilkhot Melakhim 11:10–12), Maimonides indicated that nevertheless Muhammad was part of God's plan of preparing the world for the coming of the Jewish Messiah: "All those words of Jesus of Nazareth and of this Ishmaelite [i.e., Muhammad] who arose after him are only to make straight the path for the messianic king and to prepare the whole world to serve the Lord together. As it is said: 'For then I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech so that all of them shall call on the name of the Lord and serve him with one accord' (Zephaniah 3:9)."[2]

Natan'el al-Fayyumi
Nethanel ibn al-Fayyumi, a prominent 12th-century Yemenite rabbi and theologian, and the founder of so-called Jewish Ismailism, wrote in his philosophical treatise Bustan al-Uqul ("Garden of Wisdom") that God sends prophets to establish religions for other nations, which do not have to conform to the precepts of the Jewish Torah. Nethanel explicitly considered Muhammad a true prophet, who was sent from Heaven with a particular message that applies to the Arabs, but not to the Jews.[3][4] However, Al-Fayymi's explicit acceptance of Muhammad's prophecy was rare and virtually unknown until recent times beyond his native Yemen.[5]

Midrash
A relatively known apocalyptic Midrash Secrets (Nistarot) of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, written in the Crusader period, compares Muhammad, "a prophet sent to Ishmael according to God's will", to the Jewish Messiah. According to this text, ascribed to the famous 1st-century sage and mystic Simeon bar Yochai, Muhammad's role as a prophet includes redeeming the Jews from the Christian ("Roman" or "Edomite") oppression and playing a positive role in the messianic process.[6].
Secrets of Rabbi Shim'on bar Yohai has been published as a part of a number of Midrash collections [7]. A recent Hasidic edition was included in the book called Yalkut ha-Royim, endorsed as authoritative by Rabbi Moshe Teitelbaum, the leader of the Satmar Hasidim [8].
As one can see, some rejected Muhammad the non israelite and Jesus the israelite for no real reason, others could not but admit the prophethood of Muhammad since as already said he fulfills the criteria laid down in the OT itself, but are not ready to compromise their wrong ways with his appeals to reform so invent the excuse that although he is a true prophet, his message does not concern them.

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manfred
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by manfred »

As to your claim about surah 6 Ishmael, I suppose you mean this,

after three lists of people who have been either favoured, are righteous or guided by Allah, one of which includes Ishmael, and then we get this:

Pay attention to the exact words:
6:89 These were the men to whom We gave the Book, and authority, and prophethood: if these (their descendants) reject them, Behold! We shall entrust their charge to a new people who reject them not.
This surah is one of several written near the end of the Mecca period.

It says prophethood and having been given the book go together here. The "people of the book" have prophethood. That is what it says. It follows that Ishmael may have been "favoured by Allah, but it does not say he was a prophet here.Not yet. Nor does get described as "righteous" or "guided". All this amounts to quite the opposite. He certainly was not among those "we gave the book " to.

But we can see Mohammed's irritation with the Jews here, too: He says that if they are rejecting the "prophets", as he understand this term, there will be a "new people" to take their place. He is keeping his options open. What he really means to establish that a rejection of Mohammed amounts to a rejection of ALL of God's revelation. The "new people" will be the Muslims. He is setting the scene for the Medina approach to people from other religions. The venom is slowly coming out. At the end of the day, Mohammed does not give a damn about any other "prophets"; only himself. That is why he never even went as far as trying to find out a lot of things about any of them. He just re-wrote bits and pieces when it helped to promote himself, no more.

As Ishmael was not given any sort of book, and was most definitely not part of the "people of the book", the Israelites, Mohammed goofed. Seriously goofed. He contradicted himself. Obviously this passage is from a period when he had not yet quite discovered the severity of this goof. Ishmael get his proper "prophet" role with Abraham in surah 14, written some time afterwards. Here is certainly is not quite there yet.

I bet Mohammed wished secretly never to have made the part of Ishmael being his ancestor, it really caused a lot of trouble. Still, he made the claim, even suggesting a divine revelation confirming that, so he was stuck with it.

Hilariously, in surah 29, showing just how bad Mohammed's memory was, he recycled the verse I quoted from surat 45 , even when he must have known about the problem with it by then; not only that, he "forgot" altogether that Ishmael was Abraham's son, and suggested wrongly Isaac and Jacob were, as if Ishmael was a kind of embarrassing relative best not to mention. Even though he had promoted him to "prophet" of sorts by then, by telling his tall tale about Mecca and the Kaaba, he goofed again, by recycling old material, contradicting himself. Nearing the end of the Meccan period by then, his sources of inspiration, the local Jews and Christians who had provided him with tales and sayings, had largely dried up, as by then many started to avoid him, as a trouble maker and obvious fraud. It shows. Hence the recycling of verses.

The list itself that Mohammed gave in surah 6 is also quite telling:
He starts with Abraham, and then says he was given Isaac and Jacob, not Ishmael. Again, Ishmael is avoided, at least at first.
6:84 We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good:
This reads as if David, Solomon, Job, Joseph Moses and Aaron all predate Abraham. :lol:
Job is not even a real person, he is a character in a story, as was Noah. So Mohammed included literary, fictional characters into his list of prophets. :shock:
6:85 And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous:
Zechariah lived in the 6th century BC, Elias 300 years before him, and Jesus and John are NT. So this ram-shackled list has people 900 years or more apart in one breath. What is the connection? Why does he not explain it?
6:86 And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot: and to all We gave favour above the nations:
Ahh, here he is... further down the list...There are 1000 years between Elisha and Ishmael. Lot was a character associated with Abraham. The story of Jonah is around the 9th century. Why is Ishmael not mentioned with Abraham and Lot? Elijah with Elisha? Jonah and Zachariah? John and Jesus? Why is he almost hidden, near the end, as if he does not really want to talk about him?

And what does it say about him? He is "guided"? NO IT DOES NOT. He was given "favour". Being "favoured" on its own means someone is a prophet? Obviously at this point Ishmael has not climbed the ladder yet....

Mohammed has simply made a list of names he vaguely remembered, and he has no idea idea about any of them. It's a "name dropping" passage, with no meaning whatever. He seems to have grouped them into three groups, one being guided, the next merely righteous, and not necessarily guided, and the lowest at then, those who are merely favoured.

Poor Mohammed, this is what happened when he does not get people to help him concoct his verses. He was clutching at straws.

The whole thing really is so incredibly dumb, I am amazed you cannot see through that.

Most importantly, so some of these are described as variously favoured others guided, others still are "righteous". Only when we get to verse 89 the word prophet is mentioned. So a fictional character, Job, is a prophet too? What did he prophecy? The whole of the passage is verbal diarrhea. And which of the three distinct groups is the one verse 89 is really referring to?

So if ALL of variously favoured "rightly guided" people really are meant to be prophets, then what about later "rightly guided" people, after Mohammed? What about all other "righteous" or "favoured" people? Does a fat bank account make you a prophet? If you are good and honest person, but a Hindu, are you then automatically a prophet too?

After all, then you would have to promote all the "rightly guided" Kalifs to the rank of "prophet" too, following your logic. Then anyone "rightly guided" is an Islamic prophet. You too? Who else? Pretty much anyone you like... You may have the view that the pope is a righteous, honest man. Automatically a prophet?

As you your argument that Jews accept Mohammed as a prophet, it is really too daft to respond to, I am sorry to have to say. All your sources are showing loud and clear is what effect the life as a dhimmi has on people and what may be committed to paper in an Islamic society. No Jew in his right mind would ever suggest that Mohammed is a prophet. Jewish writers from Islamic Andaluz or Yemen were not free to say what they really think.

As to whether Mohammed was part of a divine plan, as Maimonides suggests, who can say... I would need some convincing of that, as I cannot for the life of me see anything worthwhile about this man. Maybe the plan was to help us see clearly what a false prophet looks like, what he does, and where his actions lead to? To give a clear example as to what to avoid? I am getting very old now, so I am looking forward to asking God questions about this...
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

Eagle
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by Eagle »

manfred wrote:after three lists of people who have been either favoured, are righteous or guided by Allah...It says prophethood and having been given the book go together here. The "people of the book" have prophethood. That is what it says. It follows that Ishmael may have been "favoured by Allah, but it does not say he was a prophet here.Not yet. Nor does get described as "righteous" or "guided". All this amounts to quite the opposite. He certainly was not among those "we gave the book " to.
To suggest that because a passage listing several names, interrupts the list every now and then with a reminder of the qualities of these persons, with each quality described as having been granted to kullun/everyone of them, then it means that the qualities do not apply to all demonstrates a complete lack of reading skills. Note also how the discourse ends with a general statement applying to all the aforementionned names, telling us that they, including Ismail, have all been granted "al kitab and al hukma and al nubuwwa". Here, in addition to alkitab and alhukma, two words that repeatedly appear together in the Quran, the previously named personalities are said to have received nubuwwa. Kitab (in the singular) has nothing to do with the respective bookS of some of these prophets. The core meaning of the word kitab is to collect, pointing to the collection of knowledge granted to them as in 3:48"And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel". The root K-T-B means putting things together as in grouping the herd together or closing the lips or stitching, as well as putting letters or ideas together hence the common use in the sense of a book in which letters, ideas and knowledge are gathered. Hukm is for the ability to judge, rule and make decisions, nubuwwa is the gift of prophecy. The implication of the statement being that all these persons had ability to arrive at wise judgements due to the special knowledge collected and infused in them, a rpinciple obviously lost from the corrupted OT where the noble prophets have been reduced to irresponsible and despicable sinners in order to excuse the Israelites' own sins. They had also the ability to prophesy, pointing to the divine nature of their knowledge and actions.
manfred wrote:But we can see Mohammed's irritation with the Jews here, too: He says that if they are rejecting the "prophets", as he understand this term, there will be a "new people" to take their place
So God's prophet was irritated by the rejection of a community that was totally insignificant to his mission during his Meccan years. The concept of a "new people" replacing those that reject the prophets is a common pattern in the semitic tradition of prophets, had you had any idea about the matter, with the prophet Muhammad demonstrating this reality quite clearly
manfred wrote:What he really means to establish that a rejection of Mohammed amounts to a rejection of ALL of God's revelation.
So the rejection of Jesus by the Jews, dos not ammount to the rejection of the past scriptures that testified to him
manfred wrote:Job is not even a real person, he is a character in a story, as was Noah. So Mohammed included literary, fictional characters into his list of prophets
Please provide a single proof, for the true existence of Abraham, Moses and even Jesus.
manfred wrote:No Jew in his right mind would ever suggest that Mohammed is a prophet.
Yet this is what happenned simply because he fit the exact pattern of the known semitic tradition of prophethood regardless of anybody's whims. The prophet Muhammad was calling them to the adherence to their own books, admonishing them for straying away from the true path like their own Israelite prophets whom they rejected, insulted or killed, did.
manfred wrote:Jewish writers from Islamic Andaluz or Yemen were not free to say what they really think
They were allowed to voice their rejection of him and that he was insane, but didnt have enough freedom to voice their true opinion of him? The fact is, they could not but admit the prophethood of Muhammad since as already said he fulfills the criteria laid down in the OT itself, but were not ready to compromise their wrong ways with his appeals to reform so invented the excuse that although he is a true prophet, his message does not concern them.

As to the order of the names, the same allegations as yours were levelled by another person earlier and were properly answered viewtopic.php?f=21&t=14684#p194408" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
manfred wrote:I am getting very old now, so I am looking forward to asking God questions about this
The time for asking questions, making reasonable decisions is now. The place you are going to, the truth you and your kind once denied will be so evident that no questions will be voiced, only self-conviction 50:22"Certainly you were heedless of it, but now We have removed from you your veil, so your sight today is (like) steel (ie very sharp)".

sum
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by sum »

Hello Eagle

Your quote -
The time for asking questions, making reasonable decisions is now.

I have asked you a question which you routinely ignore.

Your quote -
The place you are going to, the truth you and your kind once denied will be so evident that no questions will be voiced,

Only indoctrination and mind-programming could make someone make a statement as you have, especially as it relates to the unproven and malignant Allah and his sexual deviant warlord and self-claimed prophet, Muhammad.

Please go to the other thread and answer my question.

sum

fantasea
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by fantasea »

sum wrote:Hello Eagle

Your quote -
The time for asking questions, making reasonable decisions is now.

I have asked you a question which you routinely ignore.

Your quote -
The place you are going to, the truth you and your kind once denied will be so evident that no questions will be voiced,

Only indoctrination and mind-programming could make someone make a statement as you have, especially as it relates to the unproven and malignant Allah and his sexual deviant warlord and self-claimed prophet, Muhammad.

Please go to the other thread and answer my question.

sum
Muhammad (pbuh) was a human being, with all the human traits that correspond.

Indoctrination is your excuse for not believing despite of all the signs by Allah (swt), this is a good definition of dogmatism.

Many indoctrinated people have changed religions, what does that mean? Intellectual freedom is what it means. Allah gave you freedom of soul and mind and you choose as you please. In the end you will be judged, and you most of all for what you have been doing.

darth
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by darth »

fantasea wrote: Muhammad (pbuh) was a human being, with all the human traits that correspond.
More so, actually. Most human beings are not mass-murdering,looting, slave-trading philandering bandits
fantasea wrote: Indoctrination is your excuse for not believing despite of all the signs by Allah (swt), this is a good definition of dogmatism.
Indoctrination is when people like you believe nonsense. Your "prophet" brought no sign to prove that he is a prophet. Even his own contemporaries considered him a joke. He had no miracle to show, no convincing intellectual argument to make. The only thing he did was loot, murder slave-trade etc.
fantasea wrote: Many indoctrinated people have changed religions, what does that mean? Intellectual freedom is what it means. Allah gave you freedom of soul and mind and you choose as you please. In the end you will be judged, and you most of all for what you have been doing.
Just like you muslims will be judged for not using your brains and believing a bandit's lies. God (the real one, not mo's imaginary friend) will ask why you did not use your mind but instead believed nonsense and blaspemy such as a mass-murdering, looting, slave-trading, philandering bandit could ever be his prophet.

fantasea
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by fantasea »

darth wrote:
fantasea wrote: Muhammad (pbuh) was a human being, with all the human traits that correspond.
More so, actually. Most human beings are not mass-murdering,looting, slave-trading philandering bandits
In was there are no rules, there were constant wars against kufar.
darth wrote:
fantasea wrote: Indoctrination is your excuse for not believing despite of all the signs by Allah (swt), this is a good definition of dogmatism.
Indoctrination is when people like you believe nonsense. Your "prophet" brought no sign to prove that he is a prophet. Even his own contemporaries considered him a joke. He had no miracle to show, no convincing intellectual argument to make. The only thing he did was loot, murder slave-trade etc.
Mohammed didn't bring the signs, Allah did. Muhammed was a sign of Allah.
darth wrote:
fantasea wrote: Many indoctrinated people have changed religions, what does that mean? Intellectual freedom is what it means. Allah gave you freedom of soul and mind and you choose as you please. In the end you will be judged, and you most of all for what you have been doing.
Just like you muslims will be judged for not using your brains and believing a bandit's lies. God (the real one, not mo's imaginary friend) will ask why you did not use your mind but instead believed nonsense and blaspemy such as a mass-murdering, looting, slave-trading, philandering bandit could ever be his prophet.
How do you know this, do you have a prophet or a book? I guess your answer is no.

I do have a book, a miraculous book that no one has been able to beat. We also had the greatest Prophet ever sent to us by all mighty Allah.

You have nothing, therefore you lose.

darth
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by darth »

fantasea wrote: In was there are no rules, there were constant wars against kufar.
Yes, that is all your prophet knew and taught - strife and warfare.
fantasea wrote: Mohammed didn't bring the signs, Allah did. Muhammed was a sign of Allah.
Your allah's sign was a mass-murdering,looting, slave-trading philandering bandit? Thank you for proving that your allah was actually satan. :clap:
fantasea wrote: How do you know this, do you have a prophet or a book? I guess your answer is no.

I do have a book, a miraculous book that no one has been able to beat. We also had the greatest Prophet ever sent to us by all mighty Allah.

You have nothing, therefore you lose.
We have many books and many prophets. All of our books are superior to crap quran in every way.
We feel so sorry for you. All you have had is a mass-murdering,looting, slave-trading philandering bandit and a crappy book.

fantasea
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by fantasea »

darth wrote:
fantasea wrote: In was there are no rules, there were constant wars against kufar.
Yes, that is all your prophet knew and taught - strife and warfare.
What is wrong with defending yourself or even attacking? All countries do it. I know you will accuse me of committing the fallacy of popularity. But war is as natural as sex. If Allah commands war, then we obey.
darth wrote:
fantasea wrote: Mohammed didn't bring the signs, Allah did. Muhammed was a sign of Allah.
Your allah's sign was a mass-murdering,looting, slave-trading philandering bandit? Thank you for proving that your allah was actually satan. :clap:
That is your opinion. In war there is no mass murder, it is casualties of war, slave trading was trading of workers and maids, etc...
darth wrote:
fantasea wrote: How do you know this, do you have a prophet or a book? I guess your answer is no.

I do have a book, a miraculous book that no one has been able to beat. We also had the greatest Prophet ever sent to us by all mighty Allah.

You have nothing, therefore you lose.
We have many books and many prophets. All of our books are superior to crap quran in every way.
We feel so sorry for you. All you have had is a mass-murdering,looting, slave-trading philandering bandit and a crappy book.
What books? Books without prophets? Man made books?

Our book is the word of Allah, it is divine and perfect.

sum
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by sum »

Hello fantasea

You have said that you agree with the concept of indoctrination. Do you think it is possible that you have been indoctrinated?

sum

fantasea
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by fantasea »

sum wrote:Hello fantasea

You have said that you agree with the concept of indoctrination. Do you think it is possible that you have been indoctrinated?

sum
There is a possibility, yes.

I was taught since I was a child that Allah caused everything, the rain, earth, crops, light, electricity, etc...

I found out later that this is in fact true.

sum
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Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by sum »

Hello fantasea

Your quote -
I found out later that this is in fact true.

How did you find out?

sum

fantasea
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:34 pm

Re: Mohammed is not a prophet according to the Qur'an

Post by fantasea »

The Prophet Mohamed (pubes), told me in the Quran. Because he is Allah.

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