Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by debunker »

Here's where you're seriously wrong my friend.

In Hadith, it is clear that is permissible to perform pilgrimage as much as you want.

But Hadith has defined Maghrib prayer to be 3 Rakas ONLY. If you want to pray more, then that's additional (optional prayer) but you cannot change the number of Rakas for Maghrib... this is called "bed3a".

So as far as I'm concerned, I take the rituals as they are without questioning them or changing them (because there's no basis for such questioning). If these Hadiths about rituals were indeed fabricated then it's not my fault. But when I claim that Maghrib is OK to be 7 Rakas without any justification for my claim then I would think that God will punish me for this claim in the JD.
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

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and of course I reject many of Bukharis Hadith... But not the ones related to rituals.
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by AhmedBahgat »

debunker wrote:Here's where you're seriously wrong my friend.

In Hadith, it is clear that is permissible to perform pilgrimage as much as you want.

But Hadith has defined Maghrib prayer to be 3 Rakas ONLY. If you want to pray more, then that's additional (optional prayer) but you cannot change the number of Rakas for Maghrib... this is called "bed3a".

So as far as I'm concerned, I take the rituals as they are without questioning them or changing them (because there's no basis for such questioning). If these Hadiths about rituals were indeed fabricated then it's not my fault. But when I claim that Maghrib is OK to be 7 Rakas without any justification for my claim then I would think that God will punish me for this claim in the JD.
Mister debunker

I do not need your hadith to tell me that the prayer of maghrib is 3, this was said vervbally by the prophet, and guess what, it is so bloody easy to remember, or do you think it is so hard that we need to document in a book next to the book of Allah?

now I am asking you, show me a hadith that teaches me how to pray maghrib in straightforward manner

also there is a hadith in this thread by your master Bukhari, about the oneness of Allah, in which we read Aysha expressing her jeolousy of Khadiga

Please give me your insight regarding such hadith

cheers

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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

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I personally believe that all Aicha Hadiths about her personal life (jealousy, her age, etc) are lies!

And Bukhari is not my master. I don't disrespect him but I also don't recognize his authority.
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by AhmedBahgat »

debunker wrote:and of course I reject many of Bukharis Hadith... But not the ones related to rituals.
Great, I actually thought that you are a kafir, I never read your thread about seeking a debate

now, we are clear and seems that we are on the same ship with slight differences

so, if you reject many of Bukhari non sense, how you still hold it as a source for sharia next to the Book of Allah?

ironically, all the rituals needed no books, it was taught by the prophet verbally and inherited since then, yet the confused Muslims injected into it some crap, like kissing the stone, or stonning the devil.

Bukhari and his likes are the criminals of Islam who fuked the the whole unnah since their time

If you reject many of his non sense, then you must agree that he was confused as hell to call his book, Sahih, do you agree?

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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by AhmedBahgat »

debunker wrote:I personally believe that all Aicha Hadiths about her personal life (jealousy, her age, etc) are lies!

And Bukhari is not my master. I don't disrespect him but I also don't recognize his authority.

Cool,

Now, what you need to also admit to, that Bukhari and his likes are the ones who divided the Ummah with their man made books, in which they only sought religious supremecy while caring not about Allah and His messneger

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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

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Ahmed, all I'm saying is that you can question every Hadith you want, except for those pertaining to rituals, simply because rituals are difficult to judge, so leave them alone.

But when some animal believes that the prophet recommended female circumcision, then that's when I get really angry. Because, female circumcision is a DISASTER for women, and according to the Quran we are not to harm ourselves, so how could the prophet recommend something so harmful for women?

See, you can apply your Quranic background to question things like female circumcision, etc, but not rituals! Leave the rituals alone.
Last edited by debunker on Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

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As I said, I don't disrespect Bukhari. The man collected Hadith according to the method of hearsay with certain standards.

Now, he did NOT impose his beliefs on Muslims. Muslims are the ones who wanted to believe that his book is 100% Sahih. They needed to believe this so badly, he is NOT to blame.
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by AhmedBahgat »

debunker wrote:As I said, I don't disrespect Bukhari. The man collected Hadith according to the method of hearsay with certain standards.

Now, he did NOT impose his beliefs on Muslims. Muslims are the ones who wanted to believe that his book is 100% Sahih. They needed to believe this so badly, he is NOT to blame.
Excuse me sir

if his work misled the whole ummah, then he must be questionable, in fact, he may even carry many of the sins committed by so many Muslims due to Dhalal he caused through his man made book in violation to the prophet order not to write anything he says but the Quran

Bukhari is guilty as charged and he should have no respect by any true Muslim

Salam

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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by debunker »

well, Ahmed you're a bit too harsh. The man made a lousy effort, but I don't curse him for it.
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by AhmedBahgat »

debunker wrote:Ahmed, all I'm saying is that you can question every Hadith you want, except for those pertaining to rituals,
See, if one hadith is rightfully questioned, then all hadith must be rightfully questioned, including the ritual ones

for example, shortening the prayer, should be a ritual one, because it relates to the prayer, now, the hadith books says something else to what the Quran says to why and when we should do it

Also the 50 prayers a day, going down to 5, is non sense and only shows disrespect to the might of Allah and His unlimitted knolwedge

debunker wrote: simply because rituals are difficult to judge, so leave them alone.
How come they are hard to judge?

give me some examples and how the books of hadith resolved the issue, I needd thoroughal examples though
debunker wrote:But when some animal believes that the prophet recommended female circumcision, then that's when I get really angry. Because, female circumcision is a DISASTER for women, and according to the Quran we are not to harm ourselves, so how could the prophet recommend something so harmful for women?
Of course, and certainly they got it from such man made books of hadith and sirah, sort of Jerry speinger crap to be honest, now the egyptians learnt that such act should have never been lawful, as well marrying children as Yaman country just strated to realize it

Trust me, what they call Salaf Salih, has their own great amount of flaws, like any human should be.
debunker wrote: See, you can apply your Quranic background to question things like female circumcision, etc, but not rituals! Leave the rituals alone.
I have never questioned the ritual as I inherited, there is nothing that I read from which I learnt the rituals, 100%, also I defeneded the hajj rituals against the confused minded, free-minders who promote that Hajj to Meccah is idol worshipping and Hajj should be to Jerusalem, I have this debate on my web site and I totally slam dunked Layth, the free-minders cult leader

However I cannot accept such crap of hadith about the salat going from 50 to 5 in a lengthy and boring non sense with total disrespetc to Allah and even Mohammed,

The prayer I believe was ordained 5 from the start, and even if it was 50, then it went down from 50 to 5 at once, however I really careless to know that, all I care about that I inherited 5 prayes a day and that is what I will do as a min

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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by AhmedBahgat »

debunker wrote:well, Ahmed you're a bit too harsh. The man made a lousy effort, but I don't curse him for it.
Sorry mate, I have to, because he hurt my religion bad, as well confused so many people inclduing so dear ones from my family members who already died while believing that he was an authority in islam

To be honest, I hate the guy and his likes, their crime agsinat Islam is so massive and now we can see it after 1200 years of brainwashing and shirking, I have to be harsh because it is now rooted and a tough message is warranted

I am very jealouse about my religion, because I hold it in high regard and such man almost destroyed such high regard, and conseuqnetly I have to destory his work and keep my high regard to my religion intact
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by charleslemartel »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
the rule of thumb is really simple, the more Muslims pray a day, the better it will be for them

now to make the 5 a day, 3 a day, clearly contradicts the rule of thumb
I would surely prefer that Muslims pray at least 24 times a day. That would be a win win situation for both Muslims and non Muslims. Muslims would improve their lives in the hereafter (they are supposed to bother more for the hereafter than now and here), and non Muslims will heave a sigh of relief for getting a chance to live in peace without bothering which terrorist Muslim is plotting to detonate a bomb in the mall or transport.

Let Muslims monopolize the hereafter, and leave the lowly life (this one on the earth) to kuffar.
Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.

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See, if one hadith is rightfully questioned, then all hadith must be rightfully questioned, including the ritual ones
This is EXACTLY why Hadith scholars dared NOT adopt the method of reasoning (as per Quranic background) to authenticate Hadith. Because you cannot measure why things like (Maghrib is only 3 Rakas) make sense. Using the Quranic background as a method to judge the validity of Hadith would cast a perpetual shadow of doubt on the rituals and that's why they rejected your method.

My position is that there's no need for all this inflexiblity. A reasonable compromise is to leave the rituals alone but question everything else.
How come they are hard to judge?
give me some examples and how the books of hadith resolved the issue, I needd thoroughal examples though
No they didn't resolve the issue. They would like to lie to themselves and pretend that they solved the problem, but the truth is we can never know if the rituals we're performing are 100% correct (because Quranic background can't help and because hearsay is never reliable).
Trust me, what they call Salaf Salih, has their own great amount of flaws, like any human should be.
I agree with you on this point 100%...
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

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I would surely prefer that Muslims pray at least 24 times a day. That would be a win win situation for both Muslims and non Muslims. Muslims would improve their lives in the hereafter (they are supposed to bother more for the hereafter than now and here), and non Muslims will heave a sigh of relief for getting a chance to live in peace without bothering which terrorist Muslim is plotting to detonate a bomb in the mall or transport.

Let Muslims monopolize the hereafter, and leave the lowly life (this one on the earth) to kuffar.

:lotpot:

yeah, sometimes I would like to say something to the same effect to those patronizing Muslims who think that I am a Kaffir too.
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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by AhmedBahgat »

See, if one hadith is rightfully questioned, then all hadith must be rightfully questioned, including the ritual ones
debunker wrote:This is EXACTLY why Hadith scholars dared NOT adopt the method of reasoning (as per Quranic background) to authenticate Hadith.
And that should be enough to dismiss their work, because Islam is all about reasoning that Allah exists through His signs around us and inside us.

See, if you have called me a hadith ignornace, then I say, such ignorance is a bliss, I was never ever in my life attached to it, despite it was shoved in my throat for so many years, I really do not consider that I am such ignroonat of hadith, I know their invented science very well, I also read masses of such books as well some associated books like Fath Al-Bari in explaing Sahih Bukhari, I could not believe the amount of non sense, confusion and crap in sych associated book, however when I read such things I did not take a note, now I am doing it one hadith after the other, starting from hadith 1, I reached hadith 300 in the last 2 days or so, and from those I almost collected 1/3 total non sense and useless information that worth talking about, the other 2/3 still have almost no values, and if it does, I do not consider it critical, for example, many hadith that I read were motivated by the fact of the lack of fresh water 1400 years ago in in such desert, which is not the case now, therefore they do not really apply. i.e. useless. in fact the Quran clearly told us what to do if we cannot find water, in the most simple way, now, how to do Tayamum, then I am happy to accept what was said about the prophet to have been doing as long as the circumstances during his time is similar to the circumstances I have in my time.
debunker wrote: Because you cannot measure why things like (Maghrib is only 3 Rakas) make sense.

Well, what makes sense is time wise, now if one rakaa will take two minutes, then 2 to 4 Rakaa makes great sense to me, which means that a humble one should pray more than 5 because the 5 salata hardly takes any time, that is about 34 minutes a day, very little to be really grateful for the fabouir of Allah He bestowed upon us.
debunker wrote: Using the Quranic background as a method to judge the validity of Hadith would cast a perpetual shadow of doubt on the rituals and that's why they rejected your method.
How stupid and dumb they have been, Anything Mohammed said or did that is religious, must not contradict the Quran in anyway, this is because the teacher of Mohammed who taught him all such things is Allah, and certainoy the teacher cannot contradict the self, when that teacher has unlmitted knowledge
debunker wrote: My position is that there's no need for all this inflexiblity. A reasonable compromise is to leave the rituals alone but question everything else.
But I am not questioning the rituals, I am asking them, how I should learn it from such books


Regarding the hajj issue that you mentioned, well, of course I know that the hadith did not prohibit doing hajj more than once, but did it prohibit praying maghrib 7 rakaa instead of 3?
How come they are hard to judge?
give me some examples and how the books of hadith resolved the issue, I needd thoroughal examples though
debunker wrote: No they didn't resolve the issue. They would like to lie to themselves and pretend that they solved the problem, but the truth is we can never know if the rituals we're performing are 100% correct (because Quranic background can't help and because hearsay is never reliable).
Of coourse we cannot now 100%, this why we have to use our brains and reasons, not to follow blindly
Trust me, what they call Salaf Salih, has their own great amount of flaws, like any human should be.
debunker wrote: I agree with you on this point 100%...
That is why, reasoning must apply, and if we want to follow what they call Salaf salih, then we must follow only the good they have done, and such good, must apply to our time too, not judging it as being good at their time while it is bad at our time, like marrying kids for example, that is assuming that 1400 years ago, marrying children was ok with them.

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Post by charleslemartel »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Of coourse we cannot now 100%, this why we have to use our brains and reasons, not to follow blindly
If one can follow Quran blindly, without the use of brains and reasoning, why can't he follow the Hadiths in the same way too? Both are hearsays, both contain unverified claims and both are corrupted.

Hadiths at least sound more authentic because they do not claim to have descended from the creator God. They are created by humans so one can reasonable expect some errors and excuse them on the account of human fallibility.
Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
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Post by AhmedBahgat »

charleslemartel wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Of coourse we cannot now 100%, this why we have to use our brains and reasons, not to follow blindly
If one can follow Quran blindly, without the use of brains and reasoning, why can't he follow the Hadiths in the same way too? Both are hearsays, both contain unverified claims and both are corrupted.

Hadiths at least sound more authentic because they do not claim to have descended from the creator God. They are created by humans so one can reasonable expect some errors and excuse them on the account of human fallibility.
I am not following the Quran blindly, I reasoned and I could not find any human to be the author, therefore, i am not following any human but the human who claimed to have delieved the Quran

finally shove your hadith up yours

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AhmedBahgat wrote:
charleslemartel wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Of coourse we cannot now 100%, this why we have to use our brains and reasons, not to follow blindly
If one can follow Quran blindly, without the use of brains and reasoning, why can't he follow the Hadiths in the same way too? Both are hearsays, both contain unverified claims and both are corrupted.

Hadiths at least sound more authentic because they do not claim to have descended from the creator God. They are created by humans so one can reasonable expect some errors and excuse them on the account of human fallibility.
I am not following the Quran blindly, I reasoned and I could not find any human to be the author, therefore, i am not following any human but the human who claimed to have delieved the Quran

finally shove your hadith up yours
Quite right you 'oh so confused about the HERSAY hadith and believer in the HEARSAY Krap Kran person' The Krap Kran was most certainly not written by any human as Mohammad (allah's INVENTOR and krap kran creator) committed so many vile unspeakable crimes in his life (which of course you don't know about as a Hadith denier) that he is evil and INHUMAN. Thanks for confirming this for us. :*) :*) I see the anal references are very close to your thinking all the time too. So following your perverted logic if you write something and CLAIM its from God and the ONLY proof you have is your claim then it must be so. :prop:
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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Re: Exposing a hadith worshipper (Neveen Salah Labib) Facebook

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Salam all

In today’s Bukhari Sunnah lesson, we will look at another strange hadith alleged by Bukhari which should convict him and many others of the crime of not obeying the prophet.

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... =126&doc=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

The above hadith by Bukhari is listed under a sub-chapter that he named: من خص بالعلم قوما دون قوم كراهية أن لا يفهموا , i.e. The one who exclusively transfer knowledge to some but not others fearing that the others may not understand the knowledge), which is under a chapter that he named: العلم , i.e. The Knowledge

The message of the above hadith is non sensible though, it is alleged that Anas Ibn Malik said that it was mentioned to him the following:

The prophet said to Maaz Ibn Jabal: Whoever meets Allah while not shirking anything with Him, he should enter paradise.

So Maaz Ibn Jabal said to the prophet:

Should I inform everyone so they the receive the good tidings?

So the prophet replied back:

NO, as I fear that they may rely on that.

End of hadith

Well, can you see that Anas Ibn Malik did not tell us who told him that, he only said that it was mentioned to him. How Bukhari then managed to authenticate such allegation? This is not really important, I actually careless about any Isnad or chain of narrators, all I care about is the logic behind the message in such allegation, that is if there is any.

The logic of the above allegation is obvious, Bukhari is telling us that some people may be informed with vital and crucial information, while other should never be informed likewise, the reason given by Bukhari that, those that will be excluded from knowing such information, have been excluded because of the fear that they may rely on it totally by misunderstanding it.

The vital information in the above allegation, is simply: Anyone who meets Allah while not shirking with Him anything, will go to paradise.

According to the allegation, the prophet said so to one person only, such person is named Maaz Ibn Jabal, obviously Maaz rejoiced when he heard such crucial information, so when he wanted to say it to everyone, the prophet clearly PROHIBITED HIM from doing so, by telling him NO, as well explaining his reason to why the information should be concealed from some people, which is the fear that those people misunderstand the message and totally rely on it without working hard on their deeds beside their Iman (belief).

Now I wonder, who should deserve to know such crucial information and who should not? I mean who can judge that?, certainly the prophet could have judged it and said it to Maaz Ibn Jabal, knowing that Maaz will not rely on that alone. Now, what do you think the benefit of such message to the people like Maaz? Absolutely nothing, the danger of such message is certainly outweigh the 0 benefit it has.

Allah already told us at least a couple of times in the Quran that He may forgive all sins except Shirk, therefore there is nothing that is new in the above allegation, on the other hand, Maaz Ibn Jabal certainly did not conceal it from some people, he must have said it to a few, and from those few it spread to more people, until it reached Bukhari, so mister Bukhari in his total recklessness disobeyed the prophet and documented it in a book so every Muslim knows about it. HOW DUMB

Now, let’s just assume that Maaz obeyed the prophet and only said such information to a few and concealed it from the rest, as he was commanded by the prophet, now those few started to spread it to other few(s), possibly all those people may be excused assuming that the people thought of those to whom they said it, that they will not rely on it. Now mister confused Bukhari came and put the final nail in the coffin by informing every single Muslim in the world spanning over generations and generations for 1200 years with such allegation, IN CLEAR VIOLATION TO THE PROPHET COMMAND IN THE SAME AND VERY ALLEGATION

Simply, Bukhari convicted his own self, he proved how confused, dumb, ignorant and most importantly disobedient to the prophet command, he was, and certainly millions and millions of the Muslims now totally rely on that, i.e. if they meet Allah without shirking anything with Him, they will go to paradise while totally ignoring the issue of their deeds.

See, it is not about the belief only, it is always about the belief and deeds, a fact that is mentioned in the Quran tens of times, yet mister Bukhari totally ignored such fact, in addition to his clear disobedience to the prophet command of not saying it to everyone rather a few.

Salam

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