Top 5 Errors in Koran

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Centaur
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

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haha iam no moderator here SKB as you wish
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by skynightblaze »

Centaur wrote:haha iam no moderator here SKB as you wish
I wont prolong this long. As I said , 2 posts at the max and I am not ignoring him after that because I know it is pointless to argue with him. :D
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by skynightblaze »

Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:If Sama means troposphere
Sama' means "what is above". It can be everything or a particular entity or entities above the ground. The context decides, as in any language.
Quran uses distinct words for birds, the clouds etc . If what you said was true then the quran would always used the word Sama to explain anything but it does not.That definition provided by you creates more problems than it solves. Let us look at your post and see for ourselves.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:If Sama means troposphere where birds fly , clouds move then 55:33 is definitely false because quran claims that none would be able to pass through the ZONES of heavens however as we humans as well as birds have passed through the troposphere.
It adresses men and jinn, not birds or clouds, and it doesnt say none can pass through it, just that whoever among the men and jinn desire to do it then they will only do it if God allows it. We are in the troposphere with God's authority and can only pass it with His authority
The verse says that jinns and mankind cannot pass through the zones of heaven except with authority of Allah . Thousands of aeroplanes fly daily and cross the boundaries of heavens and yet there is not a single instance where we see that we are blocked. Mankind has launched satellites and even been on moon but yet no sign of Allah ever trying to stop us. It is stupid to say that you cannot pass without Allah’s authority if Allah was never going to stop us in the first place and allow us to pass without intervention.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:Troposphere is only 7-20 kms above the surface of the earth so if 67:5 is true then we must be finding the lamps that Allah used to adorn the first heaven.
The Arabic doesnt say "lowest". It says sama' addunya or literally the heaven of the world, which is above our world ie our planet (including its atmosphere).
I checked around 8-10 translations and all of them talk about heavens that is the closest to us so stop lying here. If you are telling me that the space where birds fly is heaven then I see that must be the closest of heavens to us.

So again let me ask you…
Where are the lamps that Allah uses to decorate the heavens that is closest to us ?? According to you birds fly in there. So where are the lamps??
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:If everything above us is Sama
Not necessarly "everything". See beginning of post
That is absolute nonsense. We already saw one of the problems associated with your fraudulent claims.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:then you cannot account for space that is "Between heavens and earth"
That statement does not negate there being a heaven "between heavens and earth", and the Quran clearly calls the area of the birds and clouds a sama'/heaven.
2.164.
Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.

Focus on the part in red. The quran does not say that clouds are a part of sky but rather it says clouds are BETWEEN the SKY AND EARTH. Anyone can see here that quran did not consider the place where clouds resided as HEAVEN. All the translators claim that clouds are between earth and heavens and not in the heavens itself. Your lie has been exposed once again.

Now let us see what quran says about birds..

16:79.
Have they not seen the birds obedient in mid-air ? None holdeth them save Allah. Lo! herein, verily, are portents for a people who believe

This translation is from Pickthal which talks about birds in mid air and not sky. Rest of the people translate this verse as birds flying in the vault of the heaven which again proves heaven being a roof. Some translators say that birds fly in the middle of the sky but they still falsify your claim.

How does one determine the middle of the sky when it is infinite? Only finite things can have a mid point. However the verse would make sense if the author of quran thought sky was a solid object which would make it finite and help us in determine a mid point. So no translation of this verse supports your view.

Ibn Kathir says birds fly in the sky between heaven and earth which is actually insensible but again Ibn Kathir maintains that birds do not fly in heaven but rather BETWEEN Heaven and earth.Anyway here is what Ibn Kathir says..
Ibn Kathir on 16:79 wrote: Then Allah tells His servants to look at the birds held (flying) in the sky, between heaven and earth, and how He has caused them to fly with their wings in the sky. They are held up only by Him, it is He Who gave them the strength to do that, subjecting the air to carry them and support them. As Allah says in Surat Al-Mulk:
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:However we can account for empty space "between heavens and earth" if we consider that heavens is a roof and earth is the base
The earth is not the "base" because it needs to be upheld, just like the heavens as already explained in the previous post
This does not answer my question and irrelevant to my point. What is quran refering to when it says that Allah created ALL THAT IS IN BETWEEN earth and heavens?? The objects like cloud, birds will be covered under your definition of heavens. So tell us what is between the earth and heavens which the quran is referring to??
If we take sky as solid then we can tell the things between earth and heavens otherwise you are left clueless. So either define or happily accept that the author of quran is in error.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:was everything above earth (birds, clouds, other planets , layers of atmosphere) joined with earth before Allah supposedly separated them?
21:30 doesnt say "joined together". Go there viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12725&start=300#p183434" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; when one of your people was properly educated on this verse
Now whoever is reading this should take a look at his link where he explains 21:30. Only 1 word comes to my mind. Lunatic! According to crazy lunatic person,

heavens and earth were joined together = earth was lifeless

separation of heavens and earth = earth came into life.

Does any see the height of lunacy here? What sense does that make ?No sane person would even talk such things even if he pulled them from his arse.

Again I repeat this is not a story telling competition. We are interested in what the verse says and not what you think. Imagery has to make sense. What you are doing is putting any damn story and calling it imagery and therefore this attempt is rejected.

Until you write a sensible reply my question stands. What is being separated from earth?? We know that verse says heavens is separated but what is meant by heavens? You told us that it means clouds, birds or anything that is above . SO were the clouds, birds or anything above attached with earth before being separated? Merely putting the tag of imagery and telling me a lunatic story under the head of imagery may make sense to you but not to others.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:I guess I have provided sufficient evidence to destroy your false claims
Of course you did
:lol:
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:The first few lines of your post are somewhat irrelevant
It says there are living creatures "in" the heavens. Not above, on, or below the heavens, but "in" them. How can creatures live within a solid entity
Heavenly creatures are jinn and angels. These are super natural entities and they can live anywhere and I do not know what your dumb prophet or whoever wrote this verse had in his mind when he said this.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:How can a gaseous object be cleft asunder?
Scroll up for the definition of sama'
That definition does not make sense as we already saw above . So tell me how can gaseous object be asunder as quran claims?

TO be continued....
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
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skynightblaze
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by skynightblaze »

^^^^CONTINUED FROM ABOVE
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:Again if quran thought that heavens was not a solid object then how is using the analogy of opening doors appropriate?
As you surprisingly understood, it is making an analogy or more precisely it is using imagery to convey the notion that this often repeated protective structure above will not shelter life on earth anymore and will let pass every calamity from above.
AGain inventing a story and claiming it imagery does not make it imagery. There is absolutely no backing to what you say. You are now making the author of quran even more stupid than he was. No where does the quran say that sky itself by its virtue acts as protective structure so this verse i.e 78:19 cannot be possibly saying that sky will not act as protective structure anymore on Jday.

So I will repeat. How can the analogy of opening doors same to opening of heavens unless the author thought that sky was a solid object which could be opened like doors??

According to Ibn Kathir this verse is talking about gates of heavens being opened so that angels could descend down. SO keep banging your head and you will always lose..
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:How can the heavens be rolled up like a scroll for books unless the author of quran thought it was a solid object that could be rolled up?
A solid structure like a dome can be folded up? 21:104 along with other many similar verses such as 39:67 is one of many verses playing off the imagery of the tent and it is a particularly beautiful analogy with the tent being folded up by the voyager when he leaves his destination just as the Almighty will fold up the universe to take man on a new journey to eternity 21:104. The imagery of creation in the Quran is compared to a beduoin tent (sama' as canopy, earth as carpet, mountains as pegs) because tents are folded up by beduoin dwellers as they move on to their next life and destination. Like a tent, the earth and heavens too will be folded up to usher in a new existence. There is nothing that depicts temporality better than the tent-life of a beduoin.
The verse is talking about folding of heavens while what you are relating it to is folding up of earth and man moving onto next destination. You do not have to fold heavens for that.

Also you missed one thing while cooking up this story that tent is a solid object. If this verse is similar to analogy of folding tent then the object being folded in 21:104 has to be solid otherwise it is plain wrong to use an analogy of folding a tent. You certainly cant fold gaseous state. Only solid things can be folded.

Again I would repeat that this is not a story telling competition . The verse 21:104 says nothing about a tent being folded up or anything like that. Merely pulling stories out of your arse and putting them under the tag of imagery do not make it an imagery

The author gives an analogy of scrolls being folded up. That would make sense only if he believed that sky was a solid object that could be rolled up like a scrolls or else it is simply dumb and erroneous.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:So how does this mean that quran is talking about gaseous things ?
It certainly isnt talking about anything solid "in" which cosmic bodies are literally swimming.
We saw all the verses in the quran and they indicate that it is talking about a solid sky and the author seemed to imagine that sun and moon swim along it because he could see that run rises in the east and sets in the west. He could see the movement of sun and moon and that is why there is a verse in the quran.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:Even solid objects expand
You mean objects like rubber. So the Quran says there are several rubber domes expanding one above the other :lol: Besides, your position is that the sky will crack and fall in pieces to the ground. People shouldnt worry much about pieces of rubber falling on their head then
I did not speak about rubber. Secondly quran does not say what material the roof or the heavens is made of.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:If quran was talking about layers of atmosphere..people during muhammad's time who did not have any knowledge about atmospheric layers
It includes layers of atmosphere in its description of the heavens but it isnt only speaking of it. It also includes what is above our planet and its atmosphere, which it refers to as sama' addunya/heaven of the world in which cosmic bodies swim, ie outter space.
So can you distinguish with naked eye the 7 layers of heavens that the quran is asking us to see? The point is you cant irrespective of what Sama means. Therefore the author of quran was dumb here as always.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:How are they supposed to understand what quran is talking about?
By looking up the verses that describe the various heavens and what they contain as well as reading verses such as 71:15 speaking of how the heavens are in tabaq/levels/layers with each layer having its function 78:12 and being firm and well secured.
You cannot use this argument to reason that since solid layers of sky (as claimed by me) can’t be seen it can't be talking of solid sky because neither gaseous layers can be visualized and distinguished from one another. In short the author of quran lived upto this reputation i.e dumb.
Eagle wrote: Its not the heaven but the heavens (plural). So how can these entities in which cosmic bodies swim, birds fly etc can be raised by pillars? And as already said:
Allah therefore upholds/yumsik both heavens and earth, not only the heavens or what is above the earth, which carries more the sense of "sustaining" than holding up. But if one still wants the literal meaning to be applied then it also shows that the Quran does not depict the earth as "the bottom" of the universe for just as the heavens are upheld, the earth too is upheld by Allah.
Ibn Kathir does not agree with you. Show me a single tafsir supporting your view. No stories please.
Eagle wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:Now either Allah allows heavenly bodies to crash onto earth or he does not.
When did an object last crash on earth so as to destroy humanity. The verses are obviously speaking of protection from complete destruction. It's common sense, of which the FFI ghost town dwellers lack severly in their struggle against faith. Do you think when it says we are provided with the sun to allow life, then it didnt know people could die in the desert from sun exposure or that the life giving rains couldnt also cause death? These various imageries point out the general benefits man gets from these phenomenons, without giving an absolute description of their functions.
Where does the verse 22:65 say that it is talking about complete destruction?Even the tafsir of Ibn Kathir says that whoever comes under that fallen piece will die and not destruction of ENTIRE Mankind. Again you are lying here because you were caught pants down . The quran claims that Allah prevents the sky from falling So I will respect you and give a choice to pick the errors :

1) Quran is talking about pieces of solid sky falling onto earth which is an error.
2) Quran is talking about preventing meteors falling on earth. We know that meteors are not prevented from falling onto the earth so again we have an error.

Please select any error of your choice and enjoy. :D

I am done with your nonsense and will not reply any further on this issue.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Connedbymo+co »

Hi Skynightblaze,

you said:

You cannot use this argument to reason that since solid layers of sky (as claimed by me) can’t be seen it can't be talking of solid sky because neither gaseous layers can be visualized and distinguished from one another.

People back then believed they could see the seven layers/spheres of heaven.
The spheres were the paths the seven wandering stars moved in and each related to a sphere/heaven.
The Koranic verion of this myth may or may not be a variation of this myth, but people believed they could 'see the seven layers of heaven' back then.
Many ancient cultures believed the seven layers of heaven were like crystal which held the wandering stars in place.

In fact its clear that the koran is referring to a myth well known by the people of that time, as the Koran asks the disbelievers about it and uses as evidence of Allahs existence:

078.012
YUSUFALI: And (have We not) built over you the seven firmaments,

The fact the Koran is requesting confirmation from the unbeliever makes it clear that they are already aware of the myth of the seven heavens.
Ask this would make no sense otherwise.

The same way the Koran asks the unbelievers who created the solid canopy they already knew about:

02.22: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;

So clearly the disbelievers back then already knew about the visible seven heavens and solid canopy, as the koran is using these prevalent myths as evidence of Allahs existence.
Muslims have no interest in the truth, they only care about maintaining their delusion.
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by skynightblaze »

A few other tafsirs clarifying my position..
Tafsir al-Jalalayn on 21:32 wrote: And We made the heaven a roof, for the earth, [functioning] like the roof of a house, preserved, from collapsing; and yet of the signs thereof, namely, [the signs of this heaven such as] the sun, the moon and the stars, they are disregardful, failing to reflect on them and thus realise that the Creator of such [things] can have no partner.
. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa ... nguageId=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ibn abbas on 21:32 wrote:(And We have made the sky a roof) for the earth (withheld (from them)) such that it does not fall; it is also said that this means: it is protected from the satans by the stars. (Yet they) i.e. the people of Mecca (turn away from) they do not believe nor reflect upon (its portents) its sun, moon and stars.
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa ... nguageId=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by skynightblaze »

@Connedbymo

You could be right but quran always thought the sky/heaven was a solid object so in the light of those verses I am not able to see how this myth fits.Can you elaborate?
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Connedbymo+co »

skynightblaze wrote:@Connedbymo

You could be right but quran always thought the sky/heaven was a solid object so in the light of those verses I am not able to see how this myth fits.Can you elaborate?

I'm not sure how they saw it exactly. However, it's a historical fact people back then viewed the sky as a solid canopy, yet at the same believed in seven visible heavens.
Now the Koran claims the sky is solid and the seven heavens can be seen, therefore this doesn't contradict those myths.
As I mentioned previously some cultures believed in crystal spheres in which the planets were contained and moved around in.
The Koranic version of this myth may a slight variation of this, but either way the Koran was referring to myths that already existed as it requests confirmation of this as evidence of Allahs existence.
Muslims have no interest in the truth, they only care about maintaining their delusion.
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Eagle »

skynightblaze wrote:Quran uses distinct words for birds, the clouds etc . If what you said was true
It is like it is, and you are free to look up any Arabic lexicon
skynightblaze wrote:then the quran would always used the word Sama to explain anything but it does not
Sama' is a general word to mean "what is above". Specific words are used to identify the obect(s) spoken of, if needs be
skynightblaze wrote:That definition provided by you creates more problems than it solves. Let us look
Yes "let us" :lol:
skynightblaze wrote:The verse says that jinns and mankind cannot pass through the zones of heaven except with authority of Allah
Right, not like you ignorantly said at first
skynightblaze wrote:Thousands of aeroplanes fly daily and cross the boundaries of heavens and yet there is not a single instance where we see that we are blocked. Mankind has launched satellites and even been on moon but yet no sign of Allah ever trying to stop us.
So men, if they wanted, could fly right now to Jupiter and back. No scientist today will tell you that the ability to fly, even to short distances, let alone the moon, is entirely mastered by our machines.
skynightblaze wrote:I checked around 8-10 translations and all of them talk about heavens that is the closest to us
One more time for you: The Aabic does not use any of the words meaning low/lowest. It says sama' addunya/the heaven of the world. What those translations do, is that they interpolate the word "lowest"
skynightblaze wrote:The quran does not say that clouds are a part of sky
Of course it does. Look up 30:48
skynightblaze wrote:but rather it says clouds are BETWEEN the SKY AND EARTH.
Yes since there is a heaven above the heaven in which birds and clouds are. Once more for you:
Eagle wrote:verses such as 71:15 speaking of how the heavens are in tabaq/levels/layers with each layer having its function 78:12 and being firm and well secured.
skynightblaze wrote:This translation is from Pickthal which talks about birds in mid air and not sky. Rest of the people translate this verse as birds flying in the vault of the heaven which again proves heaven being a roof. Some translators say that birds fly in the middle of the sky but they still falsify your claim.
Your jibberish doesnt matter to an Arabic speaking person like me. It says the birds fly FI JAWW ASSAMA, literally IN THE AIR OF THE SKY. The rest is nothing but interpolations.
skynightblaze wrote:This does not answer my question and irrelevant to my point.
Actually it does quite well but the point sailed over your head. For your theory of solid domes above the flat earth to work, you need the earth to be the bottom of the universe yet the Quran tells us it needs to be upheld along with the heavens (plural).
skynightblaze wrote:What is quran refering to when it says that Allah created ALL THAT IS IN BETWEEN earth and heavens?
The heaven that is between the heavens and the earth. Didnt you get it the first and second time
skynightblaze wrote:We are interested in what the verse says
And once more for you:
There is no "joined TOGETHER" in the Arabic of 21:30. There is closed, as in each of them are closed to life until they open up with rain and vegetation.
skynightblaze wrote:Heavenly creatures are jinn and angels
As well as birds, clouds and cosmic bodies that all move in their respective heavens.
So once more for you:
It says there are living creatures "in" the heavens. Not above, on, or below the heavens, but "in" them. How can creatures live within a solid entity
skynightblaze wrote:So tell me how can gaseous object be asunder as quran claims?
Open an Arabic lexicon for the definition of sama'
skynightblaze wrote:No where does the quran say that sky itself by its virtue acts as protective structure
Keeping in mind the Quran's oft repeated analogy of creation with a tent, the analogy with a binaa'/structure 2:22,40:64 conveys the idea of a protective roof and whichever direction man looks, this sama' is protecting him which is why many translators rendered binaa'/structure as roof or canopy in these verses that are clearly drawing the picture of a tent with a comfortable floor (earth), elsewhere likened to a craddle 20:53 and its roof providing protection.
skynightblaze wrote:78:19 cannot be possibly saying that sky will not act as protective structure anymore on Jday. So I will repeat. How can the analogy of opening doors same to opening of heavens unless the author thought that sky was a solid object which could be opened like doors??

According to Ibn Kathir this verse is talking about gates of heavens being opened so that angels could descend down. SO keep banging your head and you will always lose..
It tells you doors will be openned, meaning things will begin to pass through it that never did in the past. Angels passed by thousands already before the day of resurrection, but cataclysmic phenomenons that will destroy the earth as described on that day surely did not yet
skynightblaze wrote:The verse is talking about folding of heavens while what you are relating it to is folding up of earth and man moving onto next destination. You do not have to fold heavens for that.
Once more for you:
The imagery of creation in the Quran is compared to a beduoin tent (sama' as canopy, earth as carpet, mountains as pegs) and this tent will be folded up as humanity will be moved to its destination, exactly like a beduoin traveller does

Seems you have no understanding of imagery and literature
skynightblaze wrote:If this verse is similar to analogy of folding tent then the object being folded in 21:104 has to be solid otherwise it is plain wrong to use an analogy of folding a tent. The verse 21:104 says nothing about a tent being folded up or anything like that
Do you have any idea of how analogies and metaphores work. What does your ignorant reading make of your theory of a solid roof cracking and collapsing on earth in pieces? How can a solid entity that will crack, be also rolled up like a scroll?
skynightblaze wrote:the author seemed to imagine that sun and moon swim along it
"IN". Not "along".
So once more for you:
It says there are living creatures "in" the heavens. Not above, on, or below the heavens, but "in" them. How can creatures live within a solid entity
skynightblaze wrote:He could see the movement of sun and moon and that is why there is a verse in the quran
As well as verses about the sama' in which birds, clouds, and other creatures already mentionned move freely
skynightblaze wrote:I did not speak about rubber
So what is that solid yet expanding roof you were ignorantly alluding to, a superheated metal dome that will melt on people's heads instead of cracking (as you want) on the resurrection? You funny little chap :lol:
skynightblaze wrote:Secondly quran does not say what material the roof or the heavens is made of
Because it is irrelevant to its message. However it does clearly imply a non-solid entity
skynightblaze wrote:So can you distinguish with naked eye the 7 layers of heavens that the quran is asking us to see?
So can you see the furthest galaxy in the universe if your daddy tells you to look at outter space in the telescope at night
skynightblaze wrote:You cannot use this argument to reason that since solid layers of sky (as claimed by me) can’t be seen it can't be talking of solid sky
Ok, so the Quran is speaking of superheated glass domes that will eventually melt on people's heads instead of cracking then falling (as you want) on the resurrection
skynightblaze wrote:Ibn Kathir does not agree with you
What happened to "this is not a story telling competition"? Inconsistent little chap :lol:

Once more for you:
Its not the heaven but the heavens (plural). So how can these entities in which cosmic bodies swim, birds fly etc can be raised by pillars? And as already said:
Allah therefore upholds/yumsik both heavens and earth, not only the heavens or what is above the earth, which carries more the sense of "sustaining" than holding up. But if one still wants the literal meaning to be applied then it also shows that the Quran does not depict the earth as "the bottom" of the universe for just as the heavens are upheld, the earth too is upheld by Allah.
skynightblaze wrote:Where does the verse 22:65 say that it is talking about complete destruction?
Where does it speak of absolute protection as you claim it does? So the Quran's Author did not know that this earth He refers to constantly as a couch and craddle for life, contained deserts where people can easily die?
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Centaur »

apparently koran mentions about 7 earth as well

"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens, and earths as many ..." F. Malik's translation

"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number ..." Yusuf Ali

Complementing hadiths

Sahih Al-Bukhari

Narrated Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Al-Harith:

from Abu Salama bin 'Abdur-Rahman who had a dispute with some people on a piece of land, and so he went to 'Aisha and told her about it. She said, "O Abu Salama, avoid the land, for Allah's Apostle said, ‘Any person who takes even a span of land unjustly, his neck shall be encircled with it down seven earths.’" (Volume 4, Book 54, Number 417; see also Numbers 418, 420; Volume 3, Book 43, Numbers 632-634)

Narrated 'Abdullah:

A (Jewish) Rabbi came to Allah's Apostle and he said, "O Muhammad! We learn that Allah will put all the heavens on one finger, and the earths on one finger, and the trees on one finger, and the water and the dust on one finger, and all the other created beings on one finger. Then He will say, ‘I am the King.’" Thereupon the Prophet smiled so that his pre-molar teeth became visible, and that was the confirmation of the Rabbi. Then Allah's Apostle recited: ‘No just estimate have they made of Allah such as due to Him.’ (39.67) (Volume 6, Book 60, Number 335)


basialy 7 earth and 7 heavens. Mohammed the Paedophile did not have a clue but appealing to popular beleifs


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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Connedbymo+co »

Skynightblaze, the Koran mentions the sky falling down in pieces in 52:44:

052.044
YUSUFALI: Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"


Significantly, Allah claims he will not let that happen as the disbelievers will still not consider that as a sign.
Instead of letting the sky fall in pieces on them Allah warns in the following verse:

052.045
YUSUFALI: So leave them alone until they encounter that Day of theirs, wherein they shall (perforce) swoon (with terror),-


They can instead wait till JD when they will be overcome with terror.

Therefore this cannot refer to objects such as meteorites as they have fallen on disbelievers.
Muslims have no interest in the truth, they only care about maintaining their delusion.
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skynightblaze
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by skynightblaze »

Connedbymo+co wrote:Skynightblaze, the Koran mentions the sky falling down in pieces in 52:44:

052.044
YUSUFALI: Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"


Significantly, Allah claims he will not let that happen as the disbelievers will still not consider that as a sign.
Instead of letting the sky fall in pieces on them Allah warns in the following verse:

052.045
YUSUFALI: So leave them alone until they encounter that Day of theirs, wherein they shall (perforce) swoon (with terror),-


They can instead wait till JD when they will be overcome with terror.

Therefore this cannot refer to objects such as meteorites as they have fallen on disbelievers.
I already said that to him but he is so full of nonsense. Now we have a new claim of his i.e heavens with heavens. and he also talks about birds and clouds being in the samaa which has already been refuted by MbL here. MBL claims Sama does not necessarily mean the heaven . I am not arabic literate so he could be right...

Anyway below is the link to the debate between MBL and Eagle where Eagle raised the same points and mbl answered him.. The debate may have started a few pages back but I just found the thread where the debate took place.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5058&hilit=heavens ... &start=460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
Eagle
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Eagle »

Connedbymo+co wrote:Skynightblaze, the Koran mentions the sky falling down in pieces in 52:44:

052.044
YUSUFALI: Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"


Significantly, Allah claims he will not let that happen as the disbelievers will still not consider that as a sign.
Instead of letting the sky fall in pieces on them Allah warns in the following verse:

052.045
YUSUFALI: So leave them alone until they encounter that Day of theirs, wherein they shall (perforce) swoon (with terror),-


They can instead wait till JD when they will be overcome with terror.

Therefore this cannot refer to objects such as meteorites as they have fallen on disbelievers.
Taken from the previous page:
Eagle wrote:...and when the disbelievers repeatedly challenged the prophet to bring down on them "pieces from the sky" 17:92,26:187 the Quran says that if that were done, they would think they are invaded by clouds 52:44 but the Quran specifies that when such phenomenon happens on the Resurrection, it will neither be solid pieces nor clouds but a smoke coming from assama' that will overtake them 44:10-11. If one wants the sama' to refer to the atmospheric layer in 17:92,26:187,52:44 it means the Quran is correctly implying it is composed of gases not one solid entity or solid objects falling from it...
You can join your brains altogether but will never even scratch that hard wall of truth, disbelievers...
truthanvil.blogspot.com
Connedbymo+co
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Connedbymo+co »

Eagle wrote:
Connedbymo+co wrote:Skynightblaze, the Koran mentions the sky falling down in pieces in 52:44:

052.044
YUSUFALI: Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"


Significantly, Allah claims he will not let that happen as the disbelievers will still not consider that as a sign.
Instead of letting the sky fall in pieces on them Allah warns in the following verse:

052.045
YUSUFALI: So leave them alone until they encounter that Day of theirs, wherein they shall (perforce) swoon (with terror),-


They can instead wait till JD when they will be overcome with terror.

Therefore this cannot refer to objects such as meteorites as they have fallen on disbelievers.
Taken from the previous page:
Eagle wrote:...and when the disbelievers repeatedly challenged the prophet to bring down on them "pieces from the sky" 17:92,26:187 the Quran says that if that were done, they would think they are invaded by clouds 52:44 but the Quran specifies that when such phenomenon happens on the Resurrection, it will neither be solid pieces nor clouds but a smoke coming from assama' that will overtake them 44:10-11. If one wants the sama' to refer to the atmospheric layer in 17:92,26:187,52:44 it means the Quran is correctly implying it is composed of gases not one solid entity or solid objects falling from it...
You can join your brains altogether but will never even scratch that hard wall of truth, disbelievers...
Unfortunately for you, this hard wall only exists in your head.
I certainly don't expect a mentally challenged person to understand.

Looks like you ignored my advice and stopped taking your medication:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5058&start=203" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Connedbymo+co on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Connedbymo+co
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Connedbymo+co »

skynightblaze wrote:
Anyway below is the link to the debate between MBL and Eagle where Eagle raised the same points and mbl answered him.. The debate may have started a few pages back but I just found the thread where the debate took place.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5058&hilit=heavens ... &start=460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes there are many verses that make it clear the Koran describes a solid sky as confirmed by majority of classical scholars of Islam.

However in reality it only requires one if not two verses to prove that the Koran thinks the sky is solid.
Bearing in mind that people back then already believed in a solid sky:

Astonishing as it may seem to the modern mind, with very rare excep-
tions the idea that the sky is not solid is a distinctly modern one. Historical
evidence shows that virtually everyone in the ancient world believed in a
solid firmament.


http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hil ... nt-WTJ.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


People did not realize how far away the heavens really were. It seemed reasonable to them that the sky was a canopy whose edges touched the surface of Earth..

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/scitech/dis ... ?ST_ID=525" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The Koran clearly confirmed their erroneous perception:

02.22:
PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;


The above verse is asking early readers(disbelievers) of the Koran a question, which is based on the assumption that they are already aware the sky is a canopy.
No one reading the verse back then would have raised an eyebrow that the sky was described as a canopy as this is what they already believed and the Koran only confirms this.

Likewise in the following verse:

021.032
PICKTHAL: And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.


In fact, verse 21:32 claims that not only is the sky a roof(canopy) but this roof is a sign(portent) to those early disbelievers......... :lol:
Which can only be referring to the solid canopy they knew about!
What other sky canopy would be a sign to people who aleady believed in a solid sky canopy?

So there can be no doubt the Koran is referring to the solid sky myth, as not only does the koran describe sky as solid but demands clarification from 7th century Arabs regarding this myth! :roflmao:
Muslims have no interest in the truth, they only care about maintaining their delusion.
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Eagle »

- Bring 1 pre-Islamic source stating the Arabs thought there were 7 solid domes above their heads
- Even if you do, which you wont, show the rest of the class how does this erroneous view agree with Quranic statements such as those already discussed viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12725&start=320#p183627" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that completely dismiss the notion that the Quran portrays the sky as a solid entity
- As regards to 2:22 it doesnt say canopy, but binaa'/structure. Go there for more education viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12725&start=340#p183879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- So how can the people verify the alleged solid nature of the roof according to your ignorant reading? by touching it? :lol: the protective layers surrounding the Earth are a structure/binaa' 2:22,40:64 that are well guarded 21:32 by Allah through the laws of physics He established. This verse 21:32 comes in a context providing proof for God's bounties so just as this roof is obviously a sign for the people in that it shelters life on earth like the roof of a tent, the mountains mentionned in the previous verse provide shelter from earthquakes like the pegs of a tent stabilize the whole structure so that it does not fall appart
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Connedbymo+co
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Connedbymo+co »

Eagle wrote:- Bring 1 pre-Islamic source stating the Arabs thought there were 7 solid domes above their heads
- Even if you do, which you wont, show the rest of the class how does this erroneous view agree with Quranic statements such as those already discussed viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12725&start=320#p183627" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that completely dismiss the notion that the Quran portrays the sky as a solid entity
- As regards to 2:22 it doesnt say canopy, but binaa'/structure. Go there for more education viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12725&start=340#p183879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- So how can the people verify the alleged solid nature of the roof according to your ignorant reading? by touching it? :lol: the protective layers surrounding the Earth are a structure/binaa' 2:22,40:64 that are well guarded 21:32 by Allah through the laws of physics He established. This verse 21:32 comes in a context providing proof for God's bounties so just as this roof is obviously a sign for the people in that it shelters life on earth like the roof of a tent, the mountains mentionned in the previous verse provide shelter from earthquakes like the pegs of a tent stabilize the whole structure so that it does not fall appart
I don't debate mentally challenged individuals like yourself.
You are deluded and are beyond rational thinking when it comes to Islam and I have no interest in your fallacious games you enjoy playing.


Any rational person will have no problem understanding the following:

Fact 1. Primitive people already thought the sky was a solid canopy, they did not need verfication as it was their common understanding of the sky.
Fact 2 .The Koran then claims the sky is like a canopy as a roof.
Fact 3. The Koran then asks them who has created the canopy above them, which they can only consider to be the solid sky.
Fact 4. The Koran claims this canopy to to be a sign of Alahs existence.
Fact 5. The Koran has therefore confirmed their erroneous understanding as the only canopy they were aware of is the solid sky canopy.
Fact 6. The protective layers surrounding the Earth were not a sign to primitive Arabs and therefore cannot be what the Koran is describing. :roflmao:
Fact 7. Most if not all classical scholars agree the Koran is describing a solid sky/canopy.
Fact 8. You will never be more qualified than a classical scholar.


The readers can decide who is the mentally challenged one.



Yes there are many verses that make it clear the Koran describes a solid sky as confirmed by majority of classical scholars of Islam.

However in reality it only requires one if not two verses to prove that the Koran thinks the sky is solid.
Bearing in mind that people back then already believed in a solid sky:

Astonishing as it may seem to the modern mind, with very rare excep-
tions the idea that the sky is not solid is a distinctly modern one. Historical
evidence shows that virtually everyone in the ancient world believed in a
solid firmament.

http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hil" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... nt-WTJ.pdf


People did not realize how far away the heavens really were. It seemed reasonable to them that the sky was a canopy whose edges touched the surface of Earth..

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/scitech/dis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ?ST_ID=525


The Koran clearly confirmed their erroneous perception:

02.22:
PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;

The above verse is asking early readers(disbelievers) of the Koran a question, which is based on the assumption that they are already aware the sky is a canopy.
No one reading the verse back then would have raised an eyebrow that the sky was described as a canopy as this is what they already believed and the Koran only confirms this.

Likewise in the following verse:

021.032
PICKTHAL: And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

In fact, verse 21:32 claims that not only is the sky a roof(canopy) but this roof is a sign(portent) to those early disbelievers.........
Which can only be referring to the solid canopy they knew about!
What other sky canopy would be a sign to people who aleady believed in a solid sky canopy?

So there can be no doubt the Koran is referring to the solid sky myth, as not only does the koran describe sky as solid but demands clarification from 7th century Arabs regarding this myth!
Last edited by Connedbymo+co on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kaimana1
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by kaimana1 »

I was IP banned, i have no reason to lie about it, when i sent you that message i was using proxy. Recently i gained accses here again and made this account.
Dont ever doubt me again Kai
Hmm :heh:

[
Im i wrong Kai? Is the galaxy and the earth 1 solid object?
Well, no :wacko:

Sunnis also belive Ali is more important than other caliphs Kai :ermm: He is blessed after all 33:33. Cant say the same for Umar and Uthman. So we are still having a problem to what was the difference between shias and sunnis back than besides the political issues.
You should know sunnis interpret that verse differently then shia's-
[
I have an account there yes. But mods there doesnt seem to want to validate it for me. I just wanted to ask them why their books says that Muhammad real name was Qatem.
What a bad boy

I know Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj Nishapuri and Muhammad al-Bukhari where from persia. But than again we have Imam Bukharis miracle.
well, bukhari means bukhari was from bukhara - but the zoroastrian connection is ridiculous

Now kai you should respect Islam,you know darn well Ahmadiyyas are not muslims
.
Read what i wrote i said they are NOT qadianis though- meaning they are not ahmadiyas- however ahmadiyas believe they are muslims just as much as mormons believe they are christians
And i belive they say jesus was 125 and its in India not Pakistan?
The group i am talking about are not ahmadis and are based in pakistan. they do believe LIKE the ahmadis that jesus died at 120 or 125 in pakistan then india

]
Yes but atleast this ways im good in the eyes of Sunnis and Shias . Personaly i think Shias are kind of silly with their whiping and grave worshiping and Imam Mehdi being 1200years old but they got a stable case on Ali.
I know some sunnis who will never cast a good light with you about 33:33 and many shias would have a heart attack if they read your post calling them grave worshippers.

People at that time tought that sperm came from the brain, why would they want to fabricate sulb than kai :lol
Many thought (rightly so) that sperm came from where there penis was.
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marduk
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by marduk »

Yos, and every other Muslim on earth, believe in a fairy tale book about jinn and talking idols. Never before or after the Quran did ANY god or heavenly being ever state that such a thing as "jinn" exist or that pagan gods can speak and reply to Allah when he questions them. Does it make more sense to believe that the Quran is telling the truth about jinn and pagan gods and everything else is wrong or the other way around? Please explain to us why we should now believe in jinn and talking idols instead of believing that the Quran is a bunch of baloney. To make us believe such unprecedented assertions we would need some clear signs. Muhammad, Allah and Jibril haven't given any yet. Allah said he uses human messengers as a test. In fact, anything that doesn't make any sense is explained as being a test, like humans going to war in the cause of Allah. Allah doesn't need puny humans to fight his battles for him but he does it as a test. If they die, they passed the test.
Last edited by marduk on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Centaur
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Re: Top 5 Errors in Koran

Post by Centaur »

well explained CMC, froogle is just trying to play with the arabic and is inventing new meaning to arabic words by ignoring the obvious and dismissing the scholars
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