Top 5 Errors in Koran

[ringmaster]

..........................

That is a big cry for help in my opinion. ........................... -

The big cry for help from most muslims is to help them get a visa to a kufar country. Ghaith already has that.

[kaimana1]

Hi peterpin

It sounds your wife is a member here too... what's her username?

No my wife is not a member here- However she does have access to my passwords etc.. (i have nothing to hide and im keeping it that way).and she might read my posts one day

also,

I think we are making too many exuses for Ghaith. Falsifying history is not something anyone should be allowed to do unchallenged. I personally find a denial of the holocaust extremely offensive. My grandmother, and her sister, died in Auschwitz.

He certainly would have deserved a ban for that, particularly as he kept on doing it. Mods have been tolerant at times beyond endurance.

First of all, peterpin i deeply- and sincerely apologize for coming across as making excuses for Ghaith posts regarding holocaust denial etc.- because i agree with you 110% it is highly offensive when he made those posts

I was just trying to make the point that not all but most muslims believe like Ghaith does regarding the holocaust denial- You see ringmaster had Ghaith by the balls in another thread about isreali weapons versus muslim weapons - you could only tell that Ghaith was shaken up it was around the same time he was directing his absurd posts to you regarding the algerian monks etc.. and his absurd reply to ringmaster was along the lines of well the pakistanis shot down the israeli air force in 73 war- i am aware of that claim it is totally devoid of substance.

Also he was suggesting that is was perfectly ok for Muslims to murder Christian monks, who never leave their monastery and never interfer with any Muslim way of life, in fact who never even speak except for prayer. His justification: because of the Algerian civil war 30 years before, is quite disgusting.

Agreed

I can't see many Jews from Israel travel to Germany and randomly kill people there, can you?

What kind of twisted morality uses a tragedy to justify a crime, or one crime to justify another?

Excellent point peterpin

Muslims, always the victim, can commit any atrocity at all and are always entirely justified, it seems.

18 years old he may be, but there is a really ugly side to him]

That is the mentality of islam- muslims are always victims and must fight and/or kill capture the kfir in order to stamp out oppression remember, a non muslim society is always viewed as oppressive by islam

[kaimana1]

..........................

That is a big cry for help in my opinion. ........................... -

The big cry for help from most muslims is to help them get a visa to a kufar country. Ghaith already has that.

Yeah true!

[ringmaster]

............. You see ringmaster had Ghaith by the balls in another thread about isreali weapons versus muslim weapons - ......................

The koran has a solution for Ghaith on that one.

According to the koran, Ghaith does not need any balls to be a real man. He only needs the space between the backbone and the ribs.

[kaimana1]

............. You see ringmaster had Ghaith by the balls in another thread about isreali weapons versus muslim weapons - ......................

The koran has a solution for Ghaith on that one.

According to the koran, Ghaith does not need any balls to be a real man. He only needs the space between the backbone and the ribs.

Hillarious! his balls are in the stomach or kidneys

[Centaur]

Ghaith is only a straight talking muslim like this

[ringmaster]

Ghaith is only a straight talking muslim like this

That British journalist was way too easy on her.

The courts were way too easy on her husband too.

In fact, anybody who preaches from the koran anywhere should be charged with the same crime he was charged with. The koran is an incitement to murder and preaches hate. It should be treated as such. However, I suppose at least one non-muslim member of this forum would call me a "bigot" for saying that.

[Ozes]

We are truly divided ringmaster. Mostly because of the cancer called cultural relativism. Islam is nothing compared too what the Frankfurt school of Marxism developed and released upon the world. One could point out the flaws of Islam and all would agree, one could make clear Islam is no different from nazism and respecting individual muslims AS MUSLIMS would be considered insane.

[ringmaster]

We are truly divided ringmaster. Mostly because of the cancer called cultural relativism. Islam is nothing compared too what the Frankfurt school of Marxism developed and released upon the world. One could point out the flaws of Islam and all would agree, one could make clear Islam is no different from nazism and respecting individual muslims AS MUSLIMS would be considered insane.

I agree and disagree.

You are correct when you say we are divided. Pluralistic and free societies are, by their very nature, divided. It is only when faced with an existential threat that such societies have ever coalesced and united. Sometimes, even then, they do not unite. I think that is where Europe is now. Europeans seem quite content to wallow in their comfort rather than recognize and existential threat. They have been bought off by their politicians, just like their politicians have been bought off with Arab oil money.

I disagree on Marxism. Marxism was pretty bad, but everywhere it either still is or has been has only been an "Augenblick" in time. Islam has been around for 1400 years. Communism is an appalling ideology, but as bad as it is, I would still take it over islam. Islam is about as bad it gets. Islam is even worse than Nazism and communism.

Yes...muslims are insane. I agree. Anybody who believes in that crap is clinically insane.

[peterpin]

Yes...muslims are insane. I agree. Anybody who believes in that crap is clinically insane.

Islam does not really care much a belief. It is about CONFORMING.

To a Muslim Islam defines who they are. They will outwardly conform with the requirements of Islam because of habit, because they cannot conceive anything else, and mostly,because of fear, fear of what may happen if they stop, fear of their friends, neighbours, family, fear of the afterlife, fear that they will be nothing if they are not a Muslim.

A belief implies tht at least SOME checking and critical evaluation has taken place, and something is accepted as "on balance" true.

Islam positive discourages such checks and balances. "Don't not ask questions", the quran says to the Muslim. Don't think, don't examine. Just do it.

It's a combination of peer pressure and fear that keeps it going. I have no way into looking people's heads, but much of what we have shown Ghaith here would have been discovered by some Muslims before. It's not rocket science, errors in the quran are plain to see. Why did that not result in people leaving Islam? A very few may may have done, the majority would have dealt wth such issues just like Ghaith: change or broaden the meaning of words, until the problem is hidden behind a blurr of verbal fog.

Muslims never get to the point of really believing something; before you can believe you need to check. They don't. They simply conform. The majority babble the quran without even knowing what they are saying. There is no belief, just a sign-up to a gang.

Hitler instilled fear. Stalin did.

But nobody ever managed to frighten billions of people into conformity to a cult, a wicked one, and an obviously made up one, some 1400 years after death. That is quite something.

I wonder if Mohammed could have known the monstrous thing he had created just to satisfy his lust for women and power, and his greed, what would he say? Would he be ashamed?

[ringmaster]

.........................

But nobody ever managed to frighten billions of people into conformity to a cult, a wicked one, and an obviously made up one, some 1400 years after death. That is quite something.

.................

Exactly.

That is why islam is the worst of the lot.

[Ariel]

[

Perhaps it is his pasword. I am going to change it for him. Tell him his password is now ............ and as soon he is in, he has to change it

Hi ariel, will do

Have you heard from Ghaith kaimana, Do you know if the new password thing worked out for him?

[iffo]

[

Perhaps it is his pasword. I am going to change it for him. Tell him his password is now ............ and as soon he is in, he has to change it

Hi ariel, will do

Have you heard from Ghaith kaimana, Do you know if the new password thing worked out for him?

Ghaith will not return . he found this good excuse to leave the forum so people may think he was not defeated in defending Islam but just could not login.

[Ariel]

Ghaith will not return . he found this good excuse to leave the forum so people may think he was not defeated in defending Islam but just could not login.

A shame. I liked him.

[kaimana1]

Have you heard from Ghaith kaimana, Do you know if the new password thing worked out for him

Hi ariel, i tried on several occasions to email him but none of my messages seem to go through to him- they get sent back to me as undeliverable.

Unfortunately, i am of the minority opinion around here- i rather enjoyed sparring with yos- that kid had something to say about everything

at same time i do understand some of the frustration we had with him

[pr126]

I don't think that the excuse "not being able to log on" works.
When he was banned for a week some time ago he did create 2 or 3 new accounts (sock puppets).
Nothing stopping him to log on if he wanted to. I think he had enough.

[kaimana1]

I don't think that the excuse "not being able to log on" works.
When he was banned for a week some time ago he did create 2 or 3 new accounts (sock puppets).
Nothing stopping him to log on if he wanted to. I think he had enough.

True, indeed- I believe Ghaith might have gotten tired and found a way out

[marduk]

The 12 springs error;

2:60 (Asad) And [remember] when Moses prayed for water for his people and We replied, "Strike the rock with thy staff!"-whereupon twelve springs gushed forth from it, so that all the people knew whence to drink. [45] [And Moses said:] "Eat and drink the sustenance provided by God, and do not act wickedly on earth by spreading corruption."

Uh, no. I'm afraid Allah has confused two different Bible stories. The one about Moses striking the rock and bringing forth water doesn't mention 12 springs.

Exodus 17
5 The Lord answered Moses, “Go out in front of the people. Take with you some of the elders of Israel and take in your hand the staff with which you struck the Nile, and go. 6 I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the people to drink.” So Moses did this in the sight of the elders of Israel. 7 And he called the place Massah[a] and Meribah[b] because the Israelites quarreled and because they tested the Lord saying, “Is the Lord among us or not?”

Numbers 20:11
Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.

Allah has confused that story with this one, which takes place in a completely different location;

Exodus 15

New International Version (NIV)

27 Then they came to Elim, where there were twelve springs and seventy palm trees, and they camped there near the water.

The Book of Exodus also records that after leaving Elim, one month since leaving Egypt, the Israelites headed to Mount Sinai through the Sin Wilderness. There is a possibility that the name 'Elim' is derived from a Semitic root meaning 'gods', but this cannot be further substantiated (see El (god)).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elim_%28Bible%29

Conclusion; since Mt. Horeb was the mountain where Moses met God and received the 10 Commandments and Elim was a place that the Israelites passed through on their WAY to Mt. Horeb and found 12 springs, it is impossible for the Quran verse to be correct. In fact, the Bible never said anything about "springs" when Moses struck the rock. The Quran says 12 springs gushed from the rock. Must have been an awfully large rock and why would one or even two staff strikes produce 12 springs?

The term "12 springs" is a direct quote from the Elim story. We know for a fact that it was a simple ERROR. Thus, "Allah" has made an amateurish error in what is supposedly his final Holy Book. Allah should learn to read and then actually read the Bible sometime.

[ringmaster]

There are lots of errors, but as soon as we turn our attention from the issue about sperm to another error, a guy like Ghaith (and probably Mesmorial) would triumphantly proclaim that we have given up on the first point.

[marduk]

Perhaps, but do you really want to be arguing against Islam on the subject of where sperm comes from? Seems to be a more productive and less distasteful course of action to show errors directly proved by the Torah itself, which the Quran confirms as true. It says "confirming what remains of the Torah", meaning the entire Torah as it was in the 7th century, which is the same as it's current form.

The sperm coming from the back (or whatever the exact words are) has been covered numerous times here and elsewhere. Nobody is going to concede that the Quran is a fraud on that point. It's just too minor a point. It's like all the other scientific errors in the Quran, there's a long list of them. Muslims will just keep making excuses for those but how can they make excuses for such a blatant error as combining two separate Exodus stories into one? They can't get around that.

I don't see the sperm thing as one of the top 5 errors in the Quran. The first would be the Exodus 12 springs error, which is easily shown to have been a mistake confusing two Exodus stories which took place on opposite sides of the Sinai desert at two different times. The second would probably be that anybody ever considered Mary as part of the Holy Trinity. The third would be using the Abraham in the idol shop Mishnah story as an actual religious scripture. Where did the Quran say that it confirms the Mishnah, a storybook written by Rabbis? The 4th would be placing a Samaritan at the Exodus (Allah really does need to read Exodus a few more times until he's clear on it) and the 5th would be Allah taking credit for protecting the Ka'ba when Hubal and 360 other pagan idols were inside it. Actually, those 5 errors could be put in any order you want, being about equally egregious. After those, you can bring up the issue of where sperm comes from. Why bring the subject of sperm up if you don't even have to?

You could also cite the errors of the names of several Jewish Prophets. Those people were all Hebrews and were named using Hebrew words. There is no other form of those names. A person's name cannot be altered simply because you are speaking in a different language. There is no Musa, Isa, Idris etc. There's also no angel named "Jibril". Not being able to remember the names of his own Prophets is quite an error in itself. You actually don't even have to go beyond that to prove that the Quran is stupid.