A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

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iffo
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A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by iffo »

I am not sure what is wise Allah trying to say here. It looks to me Allah needs some help and the bold part needs to be re-written because this one makes no-sense.

Surah: Al-Baqarah, Verse:178

O, YOU WHO BELIEVE! RETALIATION IS PRESCRIBED FOR YOU IN CASES OF MURDER, FREE MAN FOR FREEMAN, SLAVE FOR SLAVE, FEMALE FOR FEMALE, BUT IF ANY REMISSION IS MADE TO ANY ONE BY HIS (AGGREIVED) BROTHER (THE RETALIATION BEING REDUCED TO BLOOD MONEY) LET THE PURSUING BE HONOURABLE, AND LET THE PAYMENT BE IN KINDLINESS. THIS IS AN ALLEVIATION FROM YOUR LORD AND A MERCY. THEN WHOEVER EXCEEDS THE LIMITS AFTER THAT, FOR HIM IS A PAINFUL CHASTISEMENT.

Idesigner
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by Idesigner »

iffo wrote:I am not sure what is wise Allah trying to say here. It looks to me Allah needs some help and the bold part needs to be re-written because this one makes no-sense.

Surah: Al-Baqarah, Verse:178

O, YOU WHO BELIEVE! RETALIATION IS PRESCRIBED FOR YOU IN CASES OF MURDER, FREE MAN FOR FREEMAN, SLAVE FOR SLAVE, FEMALE FOR FEMALE, BUT IF ANY REMISSION IS MADE TO ANY ONE BY HIS (AGGREIVED) BROTHER (THE RETALIATION BEING REDUCED TO BLOOD MONEY) LET THE PURSUING BE HONOURABLE, AND LET THE PAYMENT BE IN KINDLINESS. THIS IS AN ALLEVIATION FROM YOUR LORD AND A MERCY. THEN WHOEVER EXCEEDS THE LIMITS AFTER THAT, FOR HIM IS A PAINFUL CHASTISEMENT.
in the name of Allah the most merciful!!

Here meaning of retaliation is not necessarily to get even but to return the favor with love.

Now if favor is returned with love , then the meaning " in case of murder" actually means in" case of dispute". In Arabic of that time other meaning of murder is dispute, struggle or strive for justice.

The coorect translation is:

O, YOU WHO BELIEVE! RETURN ABUSES WITH LOVE THAT IS WHAT ALLAH PRESCRIBED FOR YOU. IN CASES OF ANY DISPUTE DEAL FAIRLY WHETHER HE IS FREEMAN , SLAVE OR FEMALE , TRY TO SETTLE DISPUTE BY GIVING COMPENSATION IN KIND, LET THE PURSUING BE HONOURABLE, AND LET THE PAYMENT BE IN KINDLINESS. THIS IS AN ALLEVIATION FROM YOUR LORD AND A MERCY. THEN WHOEVER EXCEEDS THE LIMITS AFTER THAT, FOR HIM IS A PAINFUL CHASTISEMENT
Notice at the end Allah prescribes kindliness. Kindliness and murder cant go to gether.

yeezevee
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by yeezevee »

iffo wrote:I am not sure what is wise Allah trying to say here. It looks to me Allah needs some help and the bold part needs to be re-written because this one makes no-sense.
Surah: Al-Baqarah, Verse:178

O, YOU WHO BELIEVE! RETALIATION IS PRESCRIBED FOR YOU IN CASES OF MURDER, FREE MAN FOR FREEMAN, SLAVE FOR SLAVE, FEMALE FOR FEMALE, BUT IF ANY REMISSION IS MADE TO ANY ONE BY HIS (AGGREIVED) BROTHER (THE RETALIATION BEING REDUCED TO BLOOD MONEY) LET THE PURSUING BE HONOURABLE, AND LET THE PAYMENT BE IN KINDLINESS. THIS IS AN ALLEVIATION FROM YOUR LORD AND A MERCY. THEN WHOEVER EXCEEDS THE LIMITS AFTER THAT, FOR HIM IS A PAINFUL CHASTISEMENT.
Idesigner wrote:The coorect translation is:

O, YOU WHO BELIEVE! RETURN ABUSES WITH LOVE THAT IS WHAT ALLAH PRESCRIBED FOR YOU. IN CASES OF ANY DISPUTE DEAL FAIRLY WHETHER HE IS FREEMAN , SLAVE OR FEMALE , TRY TO SETTLE DISPUTE BY GIVING COMPENSATION IN KIND, LET THE PURSUING BE HONOURABLE, AND LET THE PAYMENT BE IN KINDLINESS. THIS IS AN ALLEVIATION FROM YOUR LORD AND A MERCY. THEN WHOEVER EXCEEDS THE LIMITS AFTER THAT, FOR HIM IS A PAINFUL CHASTISEMENT
Notice at the end Allah prescribes kindliness. Kindliness and murder cant go to gether.
well that verse .. you two guys are explaining in your own way( I guess Iffo is the real translation) and Mughal translated that verse as this
FFI Mughal: O you who strive for peace! Legal resolution is prescribed for you for your state administration in cases of murder: if a citizen of the state murders another citizen of the state then take the life of a citizen of the state if compensation is not accepted by victim's dependents, if a citizen of a tributary state murders a citizen of the tributary state then take the life of the citizen of the tributary state if compensation is not accepted by the dependents of the victim. If a citizen of a sister state murders a citizen of sister state then take the life of citizen of a sister state if compensation is not accepted by the dependents of the victim. However, if the murderer is pardoned by his victim's aggrieved brother then compensation should be decided according to the common law and payment should be made with gratitude. This is a concession and a mercy from your Lord but anyone goes beyond that for such shall be painful consequences.
See how complex is that verse.... and just for the sake of readers let put out other translations of that verse., here are 13 translations in spoiler from different people
Muhammad Asad: O YOU who have attained to faith! Just retribution is ordained for you in cases of killing: the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the woman for the woman. And if something [of his guilt] is remitted to a guilty person by his brother, this [remission] shall be adhered to with fairness, and restitution to his fellow-man shall be made in a goodly manner. This is an alleviation from your Sustainer, and an act of His grace. And for him who, none the less, wilfully transgresses the bounds of what is right, there is grievous suffering in store:
M. M. Pickthall: O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom.[/i]
Shakir: O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement[/i].
Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar: O those who believed! Reciprocation was prescribed for you for the slain: the freeman for the freeman and the servant for the servant and the female for the female. But whoever was forgiven a thing by his brother, the pursuing be as one who is honorable, and the remuneration be with kindness. That is a lightening from your Lord, and a mercy. And he who exceeded the limits after that, then, for him is a painful punishment
.
Wahiduddin Khan: Believers, retribution is prescribed for you in cases of murder: the free man for the free man, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If the offender is granted some remission by the heir of the slain person, the agreed penalty should be equitably exacted and should be discharged in a handsome manner. This is an alleviation from your Lord and an act of grace. He who transgresses after this shall have a painful punishment
Al-Muntakhab: O you who believe with faithful hearts, a prescriptive rule for retaliation is decreed for you to observe in the case of wilful murder as thus: a free man enjoying civil liberty for a free man enjoying civil liberty, a servant divested of freedom and personal rights for a slave with identical circumstances, a woman for a woman of the same social position. But if a brother (co-religionist) is in a position to forgive, then forgiveness should go hand in hand with sound Judgement and the demands should be agreeable to reason as judged appropriate to the circumstances. And the blood guilty should answer the demand in good will, with liberality and generosity. This is an admission of relaxation advanced by Allah, your Creator, in mercy to you. But he who transgresses thereafter shall be put to the torment.
Progressive Muslims: O you who believe, equivalent execution in warfare has been decreed for you in the case of mass killings; the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. Whoever is forgiven anything by his brother, then it is to be followed with good deeds and kindness towards him; that is an alleviation from your Lord, and a mercy. Whoever transgresses after that, he will have a painful retribution.
Abdel Haleem: You who believe, fair retribution is prescribed for you in cases of murder: the free man for the free man, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. But if the culprit is pardoned by his aggrieved brother, this shall be adhered to fairly, and the culprit shall pay what is due in a good way. This is an alleviation from your Lord and an act of mercy. If anyone then exceeds these limits, grievous suffering awaits him.
Abdul Majid Daryabadi: O O Ye who believe! prescribed unto you is retaliation for the slain; the free for the free, and a bondsman for a bondsman, and a woman for a woman; yet unto whomsoever is pardoned aught by his brother, then a serving with lenity and payments with kindness. That is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy so whosoever shall transgress thereafter, for him there shall be a torment afflictive.
Ahmed Ali: You, you those who believed, it is dictated/ordered on you the revenge in the killed/murdered, the free/liberated with the free/liberated , and the slave with the slave, and the female with the female, so who was forgiven/pardoned for him a thing/something from his brother, so following with the goodness/kindness (peaceful settlement) and discharge/fulfillment to him with goodness, that (is) reduction/lightening from your Lord, and a mercy; so who transgressed/violated after that, so for him (is a) painful torture.
Aisha Bewley: You who have iman! retaliation is prescribed for you in the case of people killed: free man for free man, slave for slave, female for female. But if someone is absolved by his brother, blood-money should be claimed with correctness and paid with good will. That is an easement and a mercy from your Lord. Anyone who goes beyond the limits after this will receive a painful punishment.
Ali Ünal: O you who believe! Prescribed for you is retaliation in cases of (deliberate, unjust) killing: freeman for freeman, slave for slave, female for female. Yet if he (the murderer) is granted some remission by his brother (any of the heirs of the victim), then what falls on the pardoning side is fulfilling in fairness what has been agreed on, and the other side is making the payment kindly enough to please the other side. This is a lightening from your Lord, and a mercy. Whoever offends after that, for him is a painful punishment.
well I have to take out the spoiler as I can not see them on the screen

yeezevee
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by yeezevee »

Well let us complete all other translation of that verse 178 from Al-Baqarah..
Tahir-ul-Qadri Mohammad: O Believers! Retribution (the law of equality in punishment) is prescribed for you in the case of those who are unjustly slain: a free man for a free man, a slave for a slave and a woman for a woman. Then, if he (the murderer) is granted some remission (in retribution) by his brother (the victim´s heir), that should be executed fairly according to the law, and (retribution) should be paid (to the heirs of the slain) in a graceful manner. This is a concession and kindness from your Lord. So, anyone who transgresses after that, for him there is painful torment.
Dr. Munir Munshey : ´Qisas´ _ (just retribution and blood money) _ is prescribed to you in cases involving (manslaughter and) murder. (If) the free man (murders), then (that) free man (should be charged). If a slave, then (that) slave, and if a woman, then (that) woman. (The offender alone and no one else is accountable). If the offender receives forgiveness from the victim´s brother (and guardian), then compliance of (the rules of) blood money and a fair award to the victim´s family is obligatory. This is the relief (and a reprieve) from your Lord. A mercy (from Him)! There is the painful punishment for anyone who transgresses after that.
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International): O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But whoever overlooks from his brother anything, then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him with good conduct. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But whoever transgresses after that will have a painful punishment.
Syed Vickar Ahamed: O you who believe! The Law of Equality is to be followed by you, in cases of murder: The free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude. This is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
Shabbir Ahmed: (Security of life is the cornerstone of a civilized society.) O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! QISAAS (The Law of Just Recompense) has been prescribed for you in dealing with murder. If a free person has committed murder, that free person will face the Law. If a slave has committed murder, that slave will face the Law. And if a woman has committed murder, that woman will face the Law. (The status of the victim or that of the offender, whether they are free men and women or those in bondage, will have no bearing before the Justice System). If the victim's kin pardons the guilty, he must be appreciative and pay an equitable compensation to the kin in handsome gratitude. This pardon is a concession from your Lord and Mercy. Whoever, after this, trespasses this Law will have a painful doom (through the court of law and in the Court of Allah). (For full aspects please see (4:92-93), (5:32), (17:33), (42:40)).
Muhammad Taqi Usmani: O you who believe, QiSaS has been prescribed for you in the case of murdered people: The freeman (will be killed) for the freeman, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. However, if one is somewhat forgiven by his brother, the recourse (of the latter) is to pursue the former (for blood money) with fairness, and the obligation (of the former) is to pay (it) to the latter in a nice way. That is a relief from your Lord, and a mercy. So, whoever transgresses after all that will have a painful punishment.
Muhammad Sarwar: Believers, in case of murder, the death penalty is the sanctioned retaliation: a free man for a free man, a slave for a slave, and a female for a female. However, if the convicted person receives pardon from the aggrieved party, the prescribed rules of compensation must be followed accordingly. This is a merciful alteration from your Lord. Whoever transgresses against it will face a painful punishment.
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali: O you who have believed, prescribed for you is retaliation concerning (the ones) killed: the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. Yet whoever is offered anything in clemency by his brother, then the close following after should be with beneficence, and the payment back to him should be with fairness. This (Literally: That) is a lightening from your Lord and a mercy; then, he who transgresses after that, then he will have a painful torment.
Hamid S. Aziz: O you who believe! Retaliation (or the Law of Equivalence) is prescribed for you. In cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female; yet he who is pardoned at all by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand and compensate him with kindness. That is a concession and a mercy from your Lord; and he who transgresses after that for him is grievous woe
Amatul Rahman Omar: O you who believe! equitable retaliation has been ordained for you in (the matter of) the slain. (Everyone shall pay for his own crime,) the freeman (murderer) for the freeman (murdered), and the slave (murderer) for the slave (murdered), and the female (murderer) for the female (murdered), but who has been granted any remission by his (aggrieved) brother (or family) then pursuing (of the matter) shall be done with equity and fairness, and the payment (of the blood money) to him (the heir) should be made in a handsome manner. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But he who exceeds the limits after this (commandment), for him is a grievous punishment
Ali Quli Qara'i: O you who have faith! Retribution is prescribed for you regarding the slain: freeman for freeman, slave for slave, and female for female. But if one is granted any extenuation by his brother, let the follow up [for the blood-money] be honourable, and let the payment to him be with kindness. That is a remission from your Lord and a mercy; and should anyone transgress after that, there shall be a painful punishment for him.
well those are another 10 translations of that verse..

yeezevee
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by yeezevee »

Apart from those two posts with 23 or so translations of that verse we have more translations which many Muslims consider them as Controversial, deprecated translations such is the translation of Rashad Khalifa of Egypt, Who was MURDERED in US of A as a Muslim heretic interfering with Islam and Quran so let us also put such translations here for the readers.. Verse 178 of Al-Baqarah from Controversial translators.
Rashad Khalifa: O you who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for you when dealing with murder - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution.
Bijan Moeinian: The capital punishment is hereby declared as a law for you the believers. The man or the woman who has committed the murder, regardless of his/her social status, should face the death. The victim’s kin, however, may pardon the murderer. An appreciative response, in the form of blood money, will be then in order. This leniency (turning the criminal case into a civil case) indicates how merciful God is [the State, therefore, does not have any right to prosecute the murderer on criminal basis.] Once the blood money is paid, those who recourse to retaliation (the relatives, state or any interested party) should know that they are invoking God’s anger.
Faridul Haque: O People who Believe! Retribution is made obligatory for you in the matter of those killed unjustly; a freeman for a freeman, and a slave for a slave, and a female for a female; and for him who is partly forgiven by his brother, seek compensation with courtesy and make payment in proper manner; this is a relief and a mercy upon you, from your Lord; so after this, a painful punishment is for whoever exceeds the limits.
Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah: Believers, retaliation is decreed for you concerning the killed. A free (man) for a free (man), a slave for a slave, and a female for a female. He who is pardoned by his brother, let the ensuing be with kindness, and let the payment be with generosity. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. He who transgresses thereafter shall have a painful punishment.
Maulana Muhammad Ali: O you who believe, retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain: the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But if remission is made to one by his (aggrieved) brother, prosecution (for blood-wit) should be according to usage, and payment to him in a good manner. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. Whoever exceeds the limit after this, will have a painful chastisement.
Muhammad Ahmed - Samira: O believers, ordained for you is retribution for the murdered, (whether) a free man (is guilty) of (the murder of) a free man, or a slave of a slave, or a woman of a woman. But he who is pardoned some of it by his brother should be dealt with equity, and recompense (for blood) paid with a grace. This is a concession from your Lord and a kindness. He who transgresses in spite of it shall suffer painful punishment.
Sher Ali: O ye who believe ! equitable retaliation in the matter of the slain is prescribed for you; the free man for the free man, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But for him who is granted any remission by his injured brother, pursuing the matter for the realization of the blood-money shall be done with fairness, and the murderer shall pay him the blood-money in a handsome manner. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. And whoso transgresses thereafter, for him there shall be a grievous punishment.
Yusuf Ali (org.): O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
Dr. Kamal Omar: O you who have Believed! Al-Qisas is prescribed to you in murders. (Kill) the free when the killer happens to be the free, and the bondman when he is a bondman, and the woman when (the killer) is the woman. But who has forgiven something on his (victim’s) behalf to his brother (i.e., to the killer), then fulfil (it) in a desirable way and compensate him with gratitude. This is a concession and mercy from your Nourisher-Sustainer. After this whoever committed any transgression — so, for him, is a penalty most grievous.
Hilali & Khan: O you who believe! Al-Qisas (the Law of Equality in punishment) is prescribed for you in case of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But if the killer is forgiven by the brother (or the relatives, etc.) of the killed against blood money, then adhering to it with fairness and payment of the blood money, to the heir should be made in fairness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. So after this whoever transgresses the limits (i.e. kills the killer after taking the blood money), he shall have a painful torment.
Maududi: O Believers, the lawn of retribution has been prescribed for you in cases of murder; if a free man commits a murder, the free man shall he punished for it and a slave for a slave: likewise if a woman is guilty of murder the same shall he accountable for it. But in case the injured brother is willing to show leniency to the murderer, the blood money should he decided in accordance with the common law and the murderer should pay it in a genuine way. This is an allowance and mercy from your Lord. Now there shall be a painful torment for anyone who transgresses the limits after this. O men of understanding.
So that is another 11 translations .. and we can have more from Non-Muslims translators..

What is the bottom line of that verse aftre reading all those translations?? Well allah knows the best.. not me...

iffo
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by iffo »

I am quite sure he meant eye for an eye. Not that if someone kills your wife you go and kill his wife.

But what a stupid retarded way to mean eye for an eye. I think Muhammad got real emotional and that's how he came up with this wording.

All he had to say 'Person who will do the murder will be the one who will be punished and killed, unless he forgiven by victim's family'.
That's all plain and simple .......... not like "man for man, old for old, teenager for teenager, jackass for jackass' ............... what nonsense is that.

Who expect this kind a stupidity from the genius God.

yeezevee
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by yeezevee »

iffo wrote:I am quite sure he meant eye for an eye. Not that if someone kills your wife you go and kill his wife.

But what a stupid retarded way to mean eye for an eye. I think Muhammad got real emotional and that's how he came up with this wording.

All he had to say 'Person who will do the murder will be the one who will be punished and killed, unless he forgiven by victim's family'.
That's all plain and simple .......... not like "man for man, old for old, teenager for teenager, jackass for jackass' ............... what nonsense is that.

Who expect this kind a stupidity from the genius God.
If that is just eye for an eye.,m it is right out of bible iffo
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot
That is right from Exodus 21:24., but we have to realize here ., The book of exodus far more elaborate than verse in Quran for punishment.. You are talking about killing., but if some one goes and harasses some one else's sister., then this guy will go and do same thing to the sister of other person.. Such are the cases you fill many in Land of pure In fact that famous Muktar mai's case was similar to that analogy..

any ways Let us put that Exodus judgement/punishment verse here
20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

20:12 to 17: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. 20:23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.

20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee. 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it. 20:26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

21:1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them. 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. 21:3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. 21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself. 21:5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. 21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. 21:9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. 21:11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.

21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death. 21:13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee. 21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.

21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.


21:18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed: 21:19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.

21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

21:26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. 21:27 And if he smite out his manservant’s tooth, or his maidservant’s tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.

21:28 If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. 21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death. 21:30 If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him. 21:31 Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him. 21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.

21:33 And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit, and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein; 21:34 The owner of the pit shall make it good, and give money unto the owner of them; and the dead beast shall be his.

21:35 And if one man’s ox hurt another’s, that he die; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the money of it; and the dead ox also they shall divide. 21:36 Or if it be known that the ox hath used to push in time past, and his owner hath not kept him in; he shall surely pay ox for ox; and the dead shall be his own.

22:1 If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.

22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. 22:3 If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. 22:4 If the theft be certainly found in his hand alive, whether it be ox, or ass, or sheep; he shall restore double.

22:5 If a man shall cause a field or vineyard to be eaten, and shall put in his beast, and shall feed in another man’s field; of the best of his own field, and of the best of his own vineyard, shall he make restitution.

22:6 If fire break out, and catch in thorns, so that the stacks of corn, or the standing corn, or the field, be consumed therewith; he that kindled the fire shall surely make restitution.

22:7 If a man shall deliver unto his neighbour money or stuff to keep, and it be stolen out of the man’s house; if the thief be found, let him pay double. 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods. 22:9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour. 22:10 If a man deliver unto his neighbour an ass, or an ox, or a sheep, or any beast, to keep; and it die, or be hurt, or driven away, no man seeing it: 22:11 Then shall an oath of the LORD be between them both, that he hath not put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods; and the owner of it shall accept thereof, and he shall not make it good. 22:12 And if it be stolen from him, he shall make restitution unto the owner thereof. 22:13 If it be torn in pieces, then let him bring it for witness, and he shall not make good that which was torn.

22:14 And if a man borrow ought of his neighbour, and it be hurt, or die, the owner thereof being not with it, he shall surely make it good. 22:15 But if the owner thereof be with it, he shall not make it good: if it be an hired thing, it came for his hire.

22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. 22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

22:25 If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury. 22:26 If thou at all take thy neighbour’s raiment to pledge, thou shalt deliver it unto him by that the sun goeth down: 22:27 For that is his covering only, it is his raiment for his skin: wherein shall he sleep? and it shall come to pass, when he crieth unto me, that I will hear; for I am gracious.

22:28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

22:29 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me. 22:30 Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen, and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with his dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it me.

22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me: neither shall ye eat any flesh that is torn of beasts in the field; ye shall cast it to the dogs.

23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:

23:3 Neither shalt thou countenance a poor man in his cause.

23:4 If thou meet thine enemy’s ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. 23:5 If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him. 23:6 Thou shalt not wrest the judgment of thy poor in his cause. 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

23:8 And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous
well these are silly books of their time., it is absolute stupid to consider them as word of God and put them as rules to live in 21st century.... and there are millions ways to say the same thing with million times more clarity than what we see in these books..
Last edited by yeezevee on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IoshkaFutz
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by IoshkaFutz »

and there are millions ways to say the same thing with million times more calrity than what we see in these books
The current edition of the USA Federal Law Code was published in 2006, and according to the US Government Printing Office, is over 200,000 pages long

Image
rules to live in 21st century

The US Code, only a subset of all laws and regulations on the books today. The US imprisons a higher percentage of its populace than Communist China does, more than Iran, more than did the Soviet Union, Saddam Hussein's Iraq, or the Taliban's Afghanistan.

Lots of modern-day calrity does things better.
“The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world that it leaves to its children.”
Dietrich Bonhoeffer - German Lutheran Pastor and Theologian. His involvement in a plot to overthrow Adolf Hitler led to his imprisonment and execution. 1906-1945

yeezevee
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by yeezevee »

IoshkaFutz wrote:
and there are millions ways to say the same thing with million times more clarity than what we see in these books
The current edition of the USA Federal Law Code was published in 2006, and according to the US Government Printing Office, is over 200,000 pages long

Image
rules to live in 21st century

The US Code, only a subset of all laws and regulations on the books today. The US imprisons a higher percentage of its populace than Communist China does, more than Iran, more than did the Soviet Union, Saddam Hussein's Iraq, or the Taliban's Afghanistan.

Lots of modern-day clarity does things better.
I am not a supporter of USA of imprisonment laws IoshkaFutz., I haven't seen those laws but if they have laws that fills with 200,000 pages means they have also have the ways to filter them to 20 pages., As long as those 200000 pages are NOT THE NAME OF GOD .. they can deal with them . Unquestionable laws from any book that 2000 year old is simply no use for 21st century.. Please watch this how Mr. Bush's Govt laws of Church eduction makes the society quickly to get in to Church control and the results of it..



And on top of it.. you are not going to play.. goat for goat., eye for eye., woman for woman and slave for slave game in 21st century with 7 billion people on the planet., That might have been OK with ~10 million people of that time. As far as this is concerned
The US imprisons a higher percentage of its populace than Communist China does, more than Iran, more than did the Soviet Union, Saddam Hussein's Iraq, or the Taliban's Afghanistan.
Of course American laws of imprisonment need to be modified., but in those land you mentioned ., people who go in to prison don't come out they go to Allah hell heaven., unless they are related to either a politician or a religious figure.. So I say your point is debatable..

darth
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by darth »

Another stupid verse from the quran. Retaliation as prescribed - female for a female -

According to this verse - suppose a man in one tribe murders a woman in another tribe, then first tribe can give a woman of their tribe to other tribe as retaliation/compensation. The original murderer can go scot free and still satisfy this verse

iffo
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by iffo »

darth wrote:Another stupid verse from the quran. Retaliation as prescribed - female for a female -

According to this verse - suppose a man in one tribe murders a woman in another tribe, then first tribe can give a woman of their tribe to other tribe as retaliation/compensation. The original murderer can go scot free and still satisfy this verse
I don't know if there is any example during Muhammad's time of they doing this kind a thing. But based on this verse it definitely looks like it is saying what you said.

Actually there are people out there including in my home country who do this kind a justice. Let suppose one guy kills this other guy, the punishment decided by the elders is that murderer will give his sister to victim's father.

If I need to pick the 10 most ridiculous statements in quran, this may be one of them.
Last edited by iffo on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

yeezevee
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Re: A Book whose verses are set clear - Quran 11:1

Post by yeezevee »

iffo wrote:
darth wrote:Another stupid verse from the quran. Retaliation as prescribed - female for a female -

According to this verse - suppose a man in one tribe murders a woman in another tribe, then first tribe can give a woman of their tribe to other tribe as retaliation/compensation. The original murderer can go scot free and still satisfy this verse
I don't know if there is any example during Muhammad's time of they doing this kind a thing. But based on this verse if definitely looks like it is saying what you said.

Actually there are people out there including in my home country who do this kind a justice. Let suppose one guy kills this other guy, the punishment decided by the elders is that murderer will give his sister to victim's father.

If I need to pick the 10 most ridiculous statements in quran, this may be one of them
.
There was NO QURAN , NO BOOK during Muhammad's time iffo., it was just alleged words of Muhammad floating in the heads of some early Muslims... That actually fits in to top most nonsense from Quran., These idiots clearly borrowed that verse from 21:1 to 4 of Exodus and added some more nonsense in to it to make it as a little song and they sang/ sing in Arabic around Arabian towns as if it is more superior to the song of old testament

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