Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
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MesMorial
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by MesMorial »

I will be off FFI (and hopefully YT) for some time. I feel I have done everything I need to do, that everyone needs to do.

Cheers.
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darth
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by darth »

MesMorial wrote: P.S. People who decide to adhere to the Qur'an alone have no obligation to answer your question. That is the nature of this discussion.
Sum:
This "brilliant" response to your question sums up the quraners approach -

- Use only the quran, ignore historical evidence
- leave your brains and logic at home (if possible stay at home yourself and just provide irrelevant links)
- if quran is shown silly, reinterpret it (muddy pond is simply milky way)
- if quran is shown nasty, reinterpret it (the word is not beat, it is kiss)
- if quran is shown incomplete again reinterpret
- if mo is shown to be one nasty sob, just ignore that evidence

BTW, I wonder how the quraners will reconcile the yemeni script with 10.64 where allah claims there can be no change in allah's words.
sum
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by sum »

Hello darth

MesMorial drifts in and out of logic and reason as it suits him. If he is arguing from the Koran only point of view he is obliged to address the points that I made ie is it believable that a man with such a chequered history of self serving violence, inhumanity and intolerance was a true prophet who was bringing something new and good for mankind that was not there before?

It is only after examining all the evidence that a muslim could "logically" become Koran only. It is far from logical just to accept the Koran without investigating its origins.

sum
antineoETC
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by antineoETC »

iffo wrote:Is Mesmorial Muslim ?
Mesmorial purports to be a "Qur'an-only" Muslim. It is a toss of a coin as to whether he is a genuine hadith rejector or whether he is an orthodox Muslim pretending to be so for purposes of deceit.
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sum
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by sum »

In reply to my direct question, MesMorial claimed that he was not a muslim and did not regard the Koran as having a divine origin. It is possible that he is arguing from the point of view of a Koran only muslim in an attempt to make critical inroads into the Islam of the sunnis where he believes that it is wrong for them to incorporate the ahadith into Islam. It is difficult to be sure.

sum
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skynightblaze
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by skynightblaze »

sum wrote:In reply to my direct question, MesMorial claimed that he was not a muslim and did not regard the Koran as having a divine origin. It is possible that he is arguing from the point of view of a Koran only muslim in an attempt to make critical inroads into the Islam of the sunnis where he believes that it is wrong for them to incorporate the ahadith into Islam. It is difficult to be sure.
sum
I think he is not a muslim (though I doubt sometimes) however he has not parted with the quran. He genuinely believes that quran does not contain any bad things. He has been attached to quran right from his childhood I suppose and he is unable to get away from his attachment. To add to this, I think the feeling of being disowned by quran alone community might be taking a toll on him. Just take a look at the thread in the exclusive rooms where AntineoEtc has challenged him. He is still defending barbaric practice of flogging people. He claim it is not for non muslim women. Actually it is as Antineo pointed out however it does not matter in my opinion even if the practice is restricted to muslim women. Now isn't the fact that muslim women suffer on account of this an enough good reason to reject quran? Why should it matter whether this punishment applies only to non- muslims or not?

I have a feeling that he is not able to see Muhammad as an evil character. The only thing he realized is that quran is not from God because of some issues . He has to go for the next step. Re-evaluate the quran knowing fully well that Muhammad was a fraud. Read every verse keeping in mind that it is coming from Muhammad or may be his companions. If he does that, he will totally see the quran in new light and see for the evil it is. He is still viewing the quran from a believer perspective which is illogical when he himself accepts that quran is not from God.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
piscohot
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by piscohot »

skynightblaze wrote:
I think he is not a muslim (though I doubt sometimes) however he has not parted with the quran
Mesmorial said he is a quran only muslim in one of the post some time back, if i recall correctly.

I doubt that has changed.
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skynightblaze
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by skynightblaze »

piscohot wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:
I think he is not a muslim (though I doubt sometimes) however he has not parted with the quran
Mesmorial said he is a quran only muslim in one of the post some time back, if i recall correctly.

I doubt that has changed.
I am not sure. I have seen him claiming that he is no longer a muslim plenty of times. One thing is for sure he still has not been able to get away the love for quran from his heart.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
darth
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by darth »

mess is all messed up. He claims that the was a buddhist 3 years ago which is nonsense when one remembers his posts. One of the important teachings of Buddha was people were to use their intelligence and if necessary even question him (the Buddha). mess refuses to question the quran. He argues on the basis that it must be true and therefore tries to twist words to fit what he wants it to be. He is a quran only muslim.
sum
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by sum »

Hello darth

MesMorial told me that he did not believe that the Koran was divine in origin. If that is the case then it must originate from man and it therefore follows that the Koran can not be guaranteed to be true and faultless. If it was from man it would account for its absurdities.

sum
darth
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by darth »

Sum: Then what is the point of using quranic verses to test itself? If he thinks quran is false then why is he using one falsehood to test/aid/explain another falsehood. Kind of absurd, don't you think?
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pr126
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by pr126 »

darth wrote:Sum: Then what is the point of using quranic verses to test itself? If he thinks quran is false then why is he using one falsehood to test/aid/explain another falsehood. Kind of absurd, don't you think?
Not just absurd, it is circular reasoning.
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charleslemartel
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by charleslemartel »

darth wrote:mess is all messed up. He claims that the was a buddhist 3 years ago which is nonsense when one remembers his posts. One of the important teachings of Buddha was people were to use their intelligence and if necessary even question him (the Buddha). mess refuses to question the quran. He argues on the basis that it must be true and therefore tries to twist words to fit what he wants it to be. He is a quran only muslim.
Where is the "like" button, Darth? :)

Mesmorial is desperately trying to hold on to his last remnants of belief; it won't be long before he realizes it. Keep chipping away!
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MesMorial
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by MesMorial »

charleslemartel wrote:
darth wrote:mess is all messed up. He claims that the was a buddhist 3 years ago which is nonsense when one remembers his posts. One of the important teachings of Buddha was people were to use their intelligence and if necessary even question him (the Buddha). mess refuses to question the quran. He argues on the basis that it must be true and therefore tries to twist words to fit what he wants it to be. He is a quran only muslim.
Where is the "like" button, Darth? :)

Mesmorial is desperately trying to hold on to his last remnants of belief; it won't be long before he realizes it. Keep chipping away!
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MesMorial
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by MesMorial »

I will change my avatar to remind Darth of my many posts. So either I think the Qur'an is the devil's religion (in which case I would have to disbelieve it), or I am being honest and deliberately "misunderstood" (whilst my avatar has nothing to do with anything).

...
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MesMorial
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by MesMorial »

Sum;
This "brilliant" response to your question sums up the quraners approach -
Brilliant by what standard? The one that you should be judging me by?
- Use only the quran, ignore historical evidence
My approach is to use the Qur’an against the religion, not the history.

- leave your brains and logic at home (if possible stay at home yourself and just provide irrelevant links)
Fine, but irrelevant to me.

- if quran is shown silly, reinterpret it (muddy pond is simply milky way)
Nothing Sunnis don’t do.

- if quran is shown nasty, reinterpret it (the word is not beat, it is kiss)
“Beat” is the weaker opinion. Besides, Sunnis do a lot more reinterpreting to justify “beat”. You appear to have a patch on one eye.

- if quran is shown incomplete again reinterpret
Not a problem that I have had. Unless by “reinterpret” you mean use the whole Qur’an.

- if mo is shown to be one nasty sob, just ignore that evidence
Same as the first.

BTW, I wonder how the quraners will reconcile the yemeni script with 10.64 where allah claims there can be no change in allah's words.
How do Sunnis do it?
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MesMorial
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by MesMorial »

Perhaps Sum and others should start thinking in terms of "better"/"worse" and "human" rather than "Sunni Muslim"/"Qur'an-supporter" and "Muslim".

If your priorities are messed up, you probably will not get along with me.
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by iffo »

MesMorial is just wasting his time and others. I am sure in his heart he has left Islam.
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MesMorial
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Re: Do the Koran only people consider the following?

Post by MesMorial »

iffo wrote:MesMorial is just wasting his time and others. I am sure in his heart he has left Islam.
What leads you to that conclusion? There is something that makes them not ignore.

I am not a Muslim, but Sunnism is not Islam.

My point is that it is your approach which is wasting your time and others'.

Inside this thread there is an alarming 2-D attitude of "it and us". Yet, arguably, people like the people here care more about Qur'an + Hadith than anybody.

Why is that so?

What is obvious to me may not be to you.
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